Topic: Our fantastic away support

[Frank.]

No and that doesn't matter, the end result could still be the same. You're not allowed to bring them into stadiums for a reason. There's plenty of better ways to create an atmosphere that don't come with the risk of having negative consequences for the club.

Your posts in here seem to be mega concerned with 'The Club.' The club don't give a flying fuck about away fans other than the fact they can go 'Oooh look how good our away fans are.' The fines would seem to be minimal if they even have been put on the club, (no evidence they have.) I'm not saying don't give a fuck about the club back, but some people care far too much about what others think and say about Liverpool rather than getting on with it themselves.

[El Lobo]

I can see peoples issues with flares more so, but the facts still speak for themselves in 0 related injuries reported around Europe from them at football games. However, smoke bombs are completely harmless and I really don't see the fuss about them.

They're not completely harmless.

I've seen them cause injuries. Not from smoke inhalation, but from being chucked about. They're little balls, perfect for chucking and pretty solid. Nothing major, a bruise maybe chucked hard enough. They don't burn for long. A smoke grenade will burn for a few minutes and are either in a firework or a tin and could easily cause a fair bit of damage.

Again, its just ensuring they're used right. That's all.

I know they look boss. And they're funny as fuck too. My mates dad was a builder and my mate robbed a smoke capsule they used for testing industrial smoke alarms. And he thought it'd be a little bit of smoke. And we lit it on the school field on our second to last day, and it was a big school... and I shit you not it filled the whole place with smoke. And of course we were heroes the next year.

But I digress, its just being sensible with it.

[Purdy]

Wasn't the cause of the bradford city fire thought to be a cigarette lighting rubbish underneath a wooden stand?

[RedRedTom]

Ok here are some facts

Becci ‏@becc_one 14h
Just spoken to my dad, when one of the flares went off today, they had a kid rushed past them who needed oxygen to help him breathe...

Our away ticket allocation for Sunderland and Man U away have been cut for the last 4 seasons.

Police forces across the country are being cut back and face having to deal with idiots who think letting off a smoke bomb and flare in a crowded space is a good thing.

Then I could get TV clips of our away atmosphere without the need for smoke bombs and flares. (Beating Man U 4-1, Beating Chelsea 2-1 etc)

LFC terms and conditions

2.1 Use of the Away Match Ticket constitutes acceptance of the Terms & Conditions of Entry.

Fulhams Terms and conditions of entry (and published by The Football Association Premier League Limited.)

1. Notwithstanding possession of any ticket the Club, any police officer or authorised steward may refuse entry to (or eject from) the Ground any person:

1.2 whose presence within the Ground is, or could (in the Club's reasonable opinion), constitute a source of danger, nuisance or annoyance to any other person.

7. The following articles must not be brought within the Ground - knives, fireworks, smoke canisters, air-horns, flares, weapons, dangerous or hazardous items, laser devices, bottles, glass vessels, cans, poles and any article that might be used as a weapon and/or compromise public safety. Any person in possession of such items will be refused entry to the Ground.

I really cannot believe how people are finding this acceptable behaviour at a match

Persistent Standing isn't allowed either.  For all intents and purposes these T&Cs are irrelevant.

[Frank.]

They're not completely harmless.

I've seen them cause injuries. Not from smoke inhalation, but from being chucked about. They're little balls, perfect for chucking and pretty solid. Nothing major, a bruise maybe chucked hard enough. They don't burn for long. A smoke grenade will burn for a few minutes and are either in a firework or a tin and could easily cause a fair bit of damage.

Again, its just ensuring they're used right. That's all.

I know they look boss. And they're funny as fuck too. My mates dad was a builder and my mate robbed a smoke capsule they used for testing industrial smoke alarms. And he thought it'd be a little bit of smoke. And we lit it on the school field on our second to last day, and it was a big school... and I shit you not it filled the whole place with smoke. And of course we were heroes the next year.

But I digress, its just being sensible with it.

This is the flaw in your argument though. You're arguing they cause injuries from being thrown about, but at a football match anything could be thrown about. I've been hit with a full bottle of coke before at a match, should we ban them too? I don't see why you're singling out smoke bombs when it's not the actual usage that's causing injury. It's misusage of anything that's solid, really.

[Frank.]

Wasn't the cause of the bradford city fire thought to be a cigarette lighting rubbish underneath a wooden stand?

Irregardless how many football stands are made of untreated wood these days? Part of a grounds safety certificate is that everything that could burn is treated regularly with fire repellent materials.

[KopiteWD]

They're not completely harmless.

I've seen them cause injuries. Not from smoke inhalation, but from being chucked about. They're little balls, perfect for chucking and pretty solid. Nothing major, a bruise maybe chucked hard enough. They don't burn for long. A smoke grenade will burn for a few minutes and are either in a firework or a tin and could easily cause a fair bit of damage.

Again, its just ensuring they're used right. That's all.

I know they look boss. And they're funny as fuck too. My mates dad was a builder and my mate robbed a smoke capsule they used for testing industrial smoke alarms. And he thought it'd be a little bit of smoke. And we lit it on the school field on our second to last day, and it was a big school... and I shit you not it filled the whole place with smoke. And of course we were heroes the next year.

But I digress, its just being sensible with it.

They don't let off the small ball smokes you're talking about, they let off these http://ultrasshop.com/index.php?a=sklep&p=274

The only time this season at any game a smoke bomb has been thrown was at Fulham, Thrown not into the opposite stand but onto a pitch that was near enough empty. Think of the poor grass though

[Buck Pete]

Just getting away from the smoke bomb debate for a second and I apologize for this morbid story lads but I need to speak about it.

Me and a few of the lads went down on the cheap London Midland service from Piccadilly to Euston yesterday.  A 4 hr journey ahead but with plenty of beers and some bacon butties coupled with that end of season away day feeling, it was turning into quite a cheery affair, Until...

The day took a terrible turn for the worst during a stop at Rugeley near Lichfield when some guy decided to leave the platform and have head on negotiations with a Virgin Pendalino train travelling at 125mph on the track next to the one we were stopped on. There were loads of scousers on the train and looking out of the window at what we initially thought was a dead animal was not a pretty site to be honest and became even worse once we all began to realize what had just occured.

I really do feel for the guy who felt he needed to do what he did and my heart goes out to him and loved ones he possibly left behind.

Anyhow, the station turned into a crime scene and we all made our way by taxi, mini bus , alternative routes to London. Speaking after the match with some of the other lads i met on the train it looks like we all just got in the ground just in time to see the Berbatov goal which further put a shitter on the day.

Back to the flares, smoke bombs and Daniel Sturridge.....Cheered the day up no end and it was just what the doctor ordered.  Great atmosphere   I didnt hear the Al Fayed song as i was getting an ale but my mate told me about it on the way home and said the Fulham fans were looking very uncomfortable with it

A good pyro filled game still doesn't stop me thinking about the poor soul at Rugeley though and it's yet another away day i will never forget.

Any other RAWKites on that same train?

[Alan_X]

LFC terms and conditions

2.1 Use of the Away Match Ticket constitutes acceptance of the Terms & Conditions of Entry.

Fulhams Terms and conditions of entry (and published by The Football Association Premier League Limited.)

1. Notwithstanding possession of any ticket the Club, any police officer or authorised steward may refuse entry to (or eject from) the Ground any person:

1.2 whose presence within the Ground is, or could (in the Club's reasonable opinion), constitute a source of danger, nuisance or annoyance to any other person.

7. The following articles must not be brought within the Ground - knives, fireworks, smoke canisters, air-horns, flares, weapons, dangerous or hazardous items, laser devices, bottles, glass vessels, cans, poles and any article that might be used as a weapon and/or compromise public safety. Any person in possession of such items will be refused entry to the Ground.

I really cannot believe how people are finding this acceptable behaviour at a match

Do you think any of these are acceptable behaviour:

12 All persons entering the Ground may only occupy the seat allocated to them by their ticket and must not move from any one part of the Ground to another without the express permission or instruction of any steward, officer of the Club and/or any police officer.

13 Nobody may stand in any seating area whilst play is in progress. Persistent standing in seated areas whilst play is in progress is strictly forbidden and may result in ejection from the Ground.

16 Mobile telephones are permitted within the Ground, provided that they are used for personal and private use only PROVIDED THAT no audio, visual or audio-visual material captured by a mobile telephone may be published or otherwise made available to any third parties including, without limitation, via social networking sites.

21 Tickets are not transferable and may not be offered for sale without the prior written permission of the Club. Any tickets that are transferred are transferred subject to these Ground Regulations. Any tickets offered for sale may be confiscated by any steward, officer of the Club or any police officer. The Club reserves the right to refuse admission to or eject from the Ground, any person who has transferred his/her ticket in contravention of the relevant ticket terms and conditions (and/or the holder of any ticket that has been transferred in contravention of the relevant ticket terms and conditions.) Tickets remain the property of the Club at all times.

I swapped positions with archie yesterday (which broke 12), I stood up all game (13), I don't film or take pictures but there are plenty who do and post on Facebook (16) and I didn't get written permission before buying my ticket off the original purchaser (21).

I understand the need for rules and regulations and why those particular terms and conditions are in place at Fulham and elsewhere. But I will continue to stand at aways, buy spares and sell spares without written permission and a whole load of other things that 'break the rules'.

[Alan_X]

I really do feel for the guy who felt he needed to do what he did and my heart goes out to him and loved ones he possibly left behind.

I don't. I had a mate who was a train driver and he said that the effect on the driver when that happens can be devastating, let alone the poor bastards who have to clean up the mess. If you really need to do it - get some pills, drink yourself to death or do it in a way that doesn't wreck other people's lives.

[Eddie]

I get the feeling that some in this thread would see danger in 'collecting stamps.' If that's the way some of you view the world, then you really shouldn't step outside the door, as there's a fucking big bus and noisy 'belching' traffic at the end of your street!

Stop hiding behind your health and safety hardhats and clipboard - Figures will probably show there being hardly any minor injuries from the types of smoke bombs our away support carries with them - never mind major injuries!
Honestly we're such a fucking "Nannied State" over the most trivial things!

For me...There's no finer sight than the 'Curva Sud' or 'San Siro' when those flairs and smoke bombs go off unless it's the Kop (Chelsea/St Etienne). Those "away boys" this season have brought an element of that back to our club. I for one, think they're fantastic for reclaiming the game and the terraces/seats from the 'modern football fan' whose 'radicality' can be measured by the amount of paint they put on their face!

P.S. Just seen that video of Gala fans either at the Ali Sami Yen or Ataturk below  - (not sure which) - http://youtu.be/KDg5YB3T-3k
just fucking brilliant!!!! Give me that type of atmosphere any day!

[Alan_X]

....or nearly dies breathing in a smoke bomb...

Smoke bombs are sold for paint-balling and other non-military uses and are designed to be breathed in safely. What do think they put in them?

[The 5th Benitle]

I swapped positions with archie yesterday (which broke 12), I stood up all game (13), I don't film or take pictures but there are plenty who do and post on Facebook (16) and I didn't get written permission before buying my ticket off the original purchaser (21).

You forgot inviting me to stand with you and archie in an empty spec next to you for the second half when my ticket was the other end of the stand, you rulebreaker you

[gazzalfc]

Smoke bombs are sold for paint-balling and other non-military uses and are designed to be breathed in safely. What do think they put in them?

Are designed for wide open spaces. Anything that releases a gas in an enclosed space can be a potential breathing risk as it replaces oxygen in the air

I'm going to step away from this thread as I'm not going up against a mod

Ridicule away

[Alan_X]

No and that doesn't matter, the end result could still be the same.

It does matter and the end result couldn't be the same. The Bradford fire, like the Kings Cross fire, was caused by a build up of flammable debris due to poor maintenance.  I'm not a 'health and safety gone mad' twat. I believe good safety regulations save lives, which is why smoke bombs are covered by regulations that ensure they are safe to use and be breathed in. Stadiums are built from materials that are non-combustible. Same as the clothes that people wear are of limited combustibility. In other words - there is nothing for a smoke bomb to ignite.

[MJohnson2]

I love how there are so many people on this thread against the smoke bombs, for more reasons than one. 2 years ago i went to Germany and watched Kaiserslautern play 1860 Munich in a meaningless end of season game, and the pyros that were on display were fantasic, €15 entry (adult), safe standing areas, and constant flares on display for 90 minutes.

Oh and there were young children in the standing areas of the ground and one of which looked around 12-13 years old waving a flare around. I love this style of atmospher, but for more reasons that one it will sadly never been seen in the premier league.

[Alan_X]

Are designed for wide open spaces. Anything that releases a gas in an enclosed space can be a potential breathing risk as it replaces oxygen in the air

They don't release a gas - the clue is in the name. They release smoke - fine particles that are non-toxic. Typical formula as far as I can tell is an oxidiser such as potassium chlorate and lactose/sugar with some form of food dye. It doesn't 'replace' oxygen in the air - that's absolute nonsense. It doesn't even use up oxygen to produce the smoke as the oxygen in the reaction is provided by the oxidiser.

I'm going to step away from this thread as I'm not going up against a mod

Don't be a tart. Arguing your point isn't a banning offence.

Ridicule away

You will only get ridiculed if you're being ridiculous, and I'm afraid to say, that as above, you are.

I've searched a few news sites and I've still not found any reports of a child having to be given oxygen yesterday by the St Johns Ambulance. I'd be interested to know if anybody on here who was in the ground saw it.

[TheGOAT]

Oh and there were young children in the standing areas of the ground and one of which looked around 12-13 years old waving a flare around. I love this style of atmospher, but for more reasons that one it will sadly never been seen in the premier league.

Yep, enjoy it while it lasts over here as the authorities will find a way to wreck the fun as usual.

[gazzalfc]

Don't be a tart. Arguing your point isn't a banning offence.

Been here long enough to know that it can (and does) happen and I do enjoy this website so wont be taking that risk. So this will be my last post on this thread. I'll go back to obscurity and toe the RAWK party line.

Call me ridiculous and a tart. I wont be rising to it

I have given my opinion. I'm sure we'll see some more #nopyronoparty in the future. Nothing I can do to stop it. I dont agree with it and believe its dangerous in an enclosed space (if not as a gas then certainly as an obstruction to vision).

But if you think smoke and flares are a good thing then set them off on the kop at Anfield. Let the stewards there see you do it and see what happens. Its all well and good hiding behind switched seats and buying away tickets from mates (which you admitted to doing a few posts up) for a game 100's of miles away. Lets see what happens when yours or your mates season tickets are on the line in identifiable seats 

All the best

I would like to add that I have heard all the stories on Twitter about bully boy mods/scribes before. Didn't really believe it until yesterday. But you live and learn and I now know that side of things. Its a real shame

[Harinder]

They don't release a gas - the clue is in the name. They release smoke - fine particles that are non-toxic. Typical formula as far as I can tell is an oxidiser such as potassium chlorate and lactose/sugar with some form of food dye. It doesn't 'replace' oxygen in the air - that's absolute nonsense. It doesn't even use up oxygen to produce the smoke as the oxygen in the reaction is provided by the oxidiser.

Don't be a tart. Arguing your point isn't a banning offence.

You will only get ridiculed if you're being ridiculous, and I'm afraid to say, that as above, you are.

I've searched a few news sites and I've still not found any reports of a child having to be given oxygen yesterday by the St Johns Ambulance. I'd be interested to know if anybody on here who was in the ground saw it.

I was 10 rows behind all in P5. I know Chivasino was a row or two behind me to the left of where I was sitting.

The only thing that I saw coming in or out of the smoke bomb area was a steward at half time or so.

When you score a goal, the adrenaline rush is amazing and you're excited. Smoke bomb or flare goes off and it adds to the excitement.

I'm not an expert on safety elements of the actual items itself so won't profess to being one but I'll say this, when one of them still bellowing away landed on the pitch the fire safety guy walked away with it casually in his hand and put it in a bucket.

He did not combust. He did not succumb to any clothing being on fire.

when the smoke bomb rattled the stands it woke a few people up. Is it startling? yes. Could it therefore scare someone? probably.

Just as bonfire nights fireworks displays can.

I can't see it as a large threat or bomb squad level forensics type exercises. I've tried to rationalise why it might be a fear or scary for some but in all fairness I can only speak for myself and having seen it at a few aways this year I can't say I'm worried by it.

[That Kennedy moment]

Good atmosphere yesterday, and most of the people around me were enjoying the smoke bombs.

Always seems to have a good craic at Fulham.

One tip to the lads letting off the smoke bombs: take a damp cloth with you. The lads who were frogmarched out of the away end by the stewards gave themselves away - their shoes were splattered with red powder.

[Lad]

Can people stop calling those that go the away 'the travelling Kop'. Sounds like the Travelling Willbury's. and they were shite.

[Upinsmoke]

If you don't like the smoke bombs don't go the matches its not rocket science

hahaha, thats a shocking point.

If you don't wanna be killed don't leave your house, because you know, its possible you might be.

[KopiteWD]

Flares will set your ground on fire and kill people, look at this proof http://youtu.be/KDg5YB3T-3k


In all seriousness, flares which are arguably more of a danger than smoke bombs don't harm anyone when used right. Which they have this season.

[Eddie]

Been here long enough to know that it can (and does) happen and I do enjoy this website so wont be taking that risk. So this will be my last post on this thread. I'll go back to obscurity and toe the RAWK party line.

Call me ridiculous and a tart. I wont be rising to it

I have given my opinion. I'm sure we'll see some more #nopyronoparty in the future. Nothing I can do to stop it. I dont agree with it and believe its dangerous in an enclosed space (if not as a gas then certainly as an obstruction to vision).

But if you think smoke and flares are a good thing then set them off on the kop at Anfield. Let the stewards there see you do it and see what happens. Its all well and good hiding behind switched seats and buying away tickets from mates (which you admitted to doing a few posts up) for a game 100's of miles away. Lets see what happens when yours or your mates season tickets are on the line in identifiable seats 

All the best

I thought we already have - Last week's Derby?
Mind you one was in the 'Annie' and coloured purple!!!

[zebenzui]

If you don't like the smoke bombs don't go the matches its not rocket science

hahaha, thats a shocking point.

Yeah, the 'if you don't like X, then don't buy it/use it/go to it' argument should just be forbidden in society.

[El Lobo]

If you don't like the smoke bombs don't go the matches its not rocket science

Yeah!!

Also, if you don't like a bloke swinging a flail around his head whilst wearing a jousting helmet that he cant see out of, don't go to the museum.

[Trev20]

We were right next to the lads setting the smoke bombs off yesterday and all they're doing is having a laugh and improving the atmosphere. That's what going to the match is all about and when the stewards picked a few off the floor they handled them with no problem at all...gets blown out of proportion.

For those with young kids or going with people who might take exception to the smoke bombs it's plainly obvious the group who set them off and there are plenty of other seats where people can move to.

One thing I do wonder is how they manage to get the pyro in the ground every other week. When there's a will, there's a way I suppose...

[Xaragon]

Yesterday was my first ever game I am from Australia and I suffer from on and off chronic back pain. I just wanted to say yesterday was by far the best sporting event I have experienced in person I was seated in liverpool end just away from the "main group" I say seated but in fact everyone stood for 90 minutes.

I have to say it was surreal being so close to the players I have watched them for years from so far away, I yelled out to brad jones but to no avail.

The game was yet to start and my fiancée  jumped out of her skin BANG some sort of firework went off followed by numerous flares my fiancée was aware what flares where after watching a league games.

The signing starts immediately this is something you barely notice on the tv I mean you will hear ynwa and Steve g s song and a few other players that I won't mention(heartbreaker) so I thought I had a basic idea but I didn't all these songs I hadn't heard before sung with such passion and  I tried to get involved as best I can clapping chanting and signing as best I could.

One little stand of supporters out sung the entire stadium for a full 90 minutes only pausing briefly when Fulham scored.

It's going to be a while before I can afford to go again and I was lucky enough to get some tickets to a box for the fa cup final and in my opinion the two don't even compare watching a liverpool game live was much more of a highlight.

So yeah thanks again its something I will never forget.

Rob.

[End Product]

The reason they are banned is not because the gas is dangerous it is because the smoke obscures the view of CCTV, police, stewards etc and so if there was an issue in the crowd they would not be able to see it.     

[us_col]

The reason they are banned is not because the gas is dangerous it is because the smoke obscures the view of CCTV, police, stewards etc and so if there was an issue in the crowd they would not be able to see it.     

I believe they are also worried they can obscure the exit signs and cause a panic.

[★deb★, please ?]

Love to know how some people got tickets today as well.
Amazes me how many tickets end up in the hands of first timers.
I got asked to sit down before the match because someone couldn't see the warm up.
People complain about the smoke bombs and pyro but at least they're creating an atmosphere unlike the Essex birds who want to sit down nice and quietly whilst all glammed up.

bought a fulham fancard and were able to buy 3 tickets in the neutral area, block P4 , 10 seats next of the away area. thankfully i was in row ZZ, nobody in my back that can bother me about sitting down
amazing atmosphere.
shame is, we can only get in at stadium like fulham. blackburn used to have tons of away tickets as well, but thats pretty much it.
kind of annoying really, as it is difficult enough to get kop home tickets for us belgians.
so it had to be carling & europa league next year.. most of those games wont be happening again(europa) so that means only carling cup games in the first half of the season.. pretty sucky.
so anyone with tips etc to get away tickets, shoot me a pm plz. and i sing, a lot!

[KopiteWD]

The reason they are banned is not because the gas is dangerous it is because the smoke obscures the view of CCTV, police, stewards etc and so if there was an issue in the crowd they would not be able to see it.     

The reason they are banned I believe is to cover the club and FA's arse, if they weren't illegal everyone would bring them in and the second one person suffered an injury from one the FA/Club/police would get their arse sued.

[Pheeny]

bought a fulham fancard and were able to buy 3 tickets in the neutral area, block P4 , 10 seats next of the away area. thankfully i was in row ZZ, nobody in my back that can bother me about sitting down
amazing atmosphere.
shame is, we can only get in at stadium like fulham. blackburn used to have tons of away tickets as well, but thats pretty much it.
kind of annoying really, as it is difficult enough to get kop home tickets for us belgians.
so it had to be carling & europa league next year.. most of those games wont be happening again(europa) so that means only carling cup games in the first half of the season.. pretty sucky.
so anyone with tips etc to get away tickets, shoot me a pm plz. and i sing, a lot!

Where about in Belgium?

[emitime]

Can people stop calling those that go the away 'the travelling Kop'. Sounds like the Travelling Willbury's. and they were shite.

Some poor shouts over the past few pages, think this is the worst of them though 

[ashleyrose-66]

I think the point with the smoke bombs is not the smoke bombs themselves but the people in possession of them.

I was at the game yesterday, Block P5, and I had absolutely no problem with them whatsoever.  The red mist that filled our end just before kick-off (and after the goals) was superb, and the place was absolutely bouncing.

No-one was hurt, and from what I could see, no-one did anything inappropriate or dangerous with any of the "pyros" that were taken in to the ground!  They were ignited and a couple were thrown on to the pitch (a long distance from where anyone was standing) and soon retrieved and put in to a bucket.

As long as the people who bring them use them responsibly and don't use them in a way that could cause anyone any harm then I don't see why it is an issue personally.

Aside from the pyros, the atmosphere was great again.  After the 3rd goal, I thought the stand might collapse as everyone was bouncing and celebrating.  After the game was good too.  A fair few stayed behind and were singing whilst the ground emptied out.

[Michaelanscombe]

Personally I saw nothing of the sort with regards to kids being rushed out for .  I did see a few elderly people from that area make there way past me in row l complaining but in the second half they made there way to seats that had been vacated by the lads further back.  I love the bangs the smoke etc it makes for a great athmosphere but I was bought up to think of others and how my actions will effect them.  As a result me personally I couldn't let th off knowing it was going to upset people around me but I'm quite happy to join in with the fun the create if someone is .

[beardsley4ever]

The reason they are banned I believe is to cover the club and FA's arse, if they weren't illegal everyone would bring them in and the second one person suffered an injury from one the FA/Club/police would get their arse sued.

Nail. Head.

[★deb★, please ?]

Where about in Belgium?

brussels-leuven-liege, i move around a lot.

why's that?
normally we travel to liverpool via manc city(cheap ryanair flight!) and get the national express.

edit: didnt see the ford pic anyway i guess you're a flemish reds guy? we are from the other fanclub, in liege.

[joel]

Pyro is IN