Author Topic: Members Sales  (Read 2059619 times)

Offline TeddyTime33

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17320 on: May 12, 2021, 10:14:24 pm »
Should add that didn't have 13 from 18/19, hence the complaints they are not guaranteed tickets.
ah yes sorry forgot that part haha

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17321 on: May 12, 2021, 11:27:32 pm »
ACS has never been guaranteed

It hasn't, but there was talk of it being guaranteed going forward, but then covid happened.

Offline TeddyTime33

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17322 on: May 13, 2021, 12:19:24 am »
It hasn't, but there was talk of it being guaranteed going forward, but then covid happened.
that would be wrong imo, very very closed shop

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17323 on: May 13, 2021, 12:31:10 am »
that would be wrong imo, very very closed shop

Not at all, it's less of a closed shop than trying to get PL tickets.  It's no different to the magical 13+ number for the PL.  Loyalty should be rewarded, you can't reward it in one competition and not the other.  One of the cards in my family isn't on any ACS and over the years I've got loads of tickets for the European games and FA Cup on it.  Have another card on the ACS for the Europeans and the card that isn't on the ACS I always end up being able to get decent seats in the Kop or main stand, in fact the seats I got for the 18/19 season always ended up being better than the ones that were on the ACS.  Pre-Covid I really struggled to get any PL league games and gave up trying, luckily there's a couple of STH holders who gladly sell on a lot of the games for the PL so manage to get to them that way.

Offline TeddyTime33

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17324 on: May 13, 2021, 01:31:49 am »
Not at all, it's less of a closed shop than trying to get PL tickets.  It's no different to the magical 13+ number for the PL.  Loyalty should be rewarded, you can't reward it in one competition and not the other.  One of the cards in my family isn't on any ACS and over the years I've got loads of tickets for the European games and FA Cup on it.  Have another card on the ACS for the Europeans and the card that isn't on the ACS I always end up being able to get decent seats in the Kop or main stand, in fact the seats I got for the 18/19 season always ended up being better than the ones that were on the ACS.  Pre-Covid I really struggled to get any PL league games and gave up trying, luckily there's a couple of STH holders who gladly sell on a lot of the games for the PL so manage to get to them that way.
if you guarantee to ACS to everyone on it you'll have barely hundreds of tickets for anyone who reached the full quota the year before

Offline davidsteventon

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17325 on: May 13, 2021, 06:16:11 am »
that would be wrong imo, very very closed shop

A ST is a closed shop and not seeing many asking for that to go.
Imagine if we said to ST holders next year is a ballot for your ST.

Offline TeddyTime33

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17326 on: May 13, 2021, 06:28:46 am »
A ST is a closed shop and not seeing many asking for that to go.
Imagine if we said to ST holders next year is a ballot for your ST.
What's the point in even discussing ST? we know they won't go anywhere so it's not really relevant, STHs will have to enter an ACS ballot too I assume, no one is losing a membership or even tickets if they don't get on the ACS

Offline 30fiver

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17327 on: May 13, 2021, 07:06:51 am »
Can someone briefly explain the 300 club please?
Bit lost with the thread..thanks

about 300 people have 13 credits from 19/20

300 club is people who did 13 of the 15 played
If you want to count 13 of the 19 games purchased before cancellations its more like 800
And if you want to say pro-rata on say 10 or 11 of 15 games there's more like 1100

Offline 30fiver

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17328 on: May 13, 2021, 07:10:37 am »
can't even get accepted to the FB group because I don't have 13 from 19/20, great stuff

You should be able to if you have it pro-rata or bought 13 prior to the cancellations

If you cant get in the fb group there's a whatsapp invite link here
https://chat.whatsapp.com/L9X93ckfuQTJAxxIjSl80o

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17329 on: May 13, 2021, 09:04:58 am »
New Queue System:
"Liverpool FC Queue System
Thank you for waiting.
As soon as the queue opens, you will be connected and randomly assigned a position alongside other supporters."

--

Hopefully it is actually truly random unlike the last one!

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17330 on: May 13, 2021, 09:09:44 am »
300 club is people who did 13 of the 15 played
If you want to count 13 of the 19 games purchased before cancellations its more like 800
And if you want to say pro-rata on say 10 or 11 of 15 games there's more like 1100

Do feel sorry for the people and hopefully it'll get sorted for them.  Like you say though there are probably a lot more than the 300 who have been screwed over.  How many were on 11 or 12 and were hoping to get some of the remaining games in late sales.

if you guarantee to ACS to everyone on it you'll have barely hundreds of tickets for anyone who reached the full quota the year before

That's a very valid point if we don't get far in a European competition.  ACS should be based on a number of seasons, not just the previous because I understand that if you just go off last season a lot more people will have full credits than the season before when we made it all the way as tickets get harder to come in the latter rounds.  Hopefully this is something that the club will look at after next season when credits will be counted again.

Offline TeddyTime33

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17331 on: May 13, 2021, 03:35:17 pm »

That's a very valid point if we don't get far in a European competition.  ACS should be based on a number of seasons, not just the previous because I understand that if you just go off last season a lot more people will have full credits than the season before when we made it all the way as tickets get harder to come in the latter rounds.  Hopefully this is something that the club will look at after next season when credits will be counted again.
I don't disagree mate, more than happy for a portion of ACS to be guaranteed

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17332 on: May 13, 2021, 04:21:07 pm »
Adding these 20 Friends and Family, do they have to be members?

I intend to bring my lad and my younger brother to a game this season, but neither are members and I don't intend on getting them a membership. I'd be using my older brother's and a mates membership for them, but the FAQs say this is how they get the ticket?

Quote
When I transfer my ticket to one of my Friends and Family, how will they receive the ticket?
The ticket (NFC pass) will be transferred to the Tickets Section within their My Account, and they can then download it to their smartphone.

They don't/won't have an account, so what's the deal there?

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Offline Welshred

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17333 on: May 13, 2021, 04:30:57 pm »
You'll have to create an account for them. They don't have to be members they just have to have their details registered with the club.

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17334 on: May 13, 2021, 04:34:22 pm »
How do they get added to the Friends and Family list then? The current one asks for Supporter ID/membership number
Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

Offline redgriffin73

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17335 on: May 13, 2021, 04:36:00 pm »
How do they get added to the Friends and Family list then? The current one asks for Supporter ID/membership number

Think there's going to be a separate list where you just give their details.
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Offline Welshred

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17336 on: May 13, 2021, 04:36:43 pm »
How do they get added to the Friends and Family list then? The current one asks for Supporter ID/membership number

When you register them they get a supporter ID

Think there's going to be a separate list where you just give their details.

But there should be this as well.

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17337 on: May 13, 2021, 04:38:03 pm »
Cheers folks
Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

Offline Harinder

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17338 on: May 13, 2021, 07:05:14 pm »
Adding these 20 Friends and Family, do they have to be members?

I intend to bring my lad and my younger brother to a game this season, but neither are members and I don't intend on getting them a membership. I'd be using my older brother's and a mates membership for them, but the FAQs say this is how they get the ticket?

They don't/won't have an account, so what's the deal there?

Don’t need to be members. Named folks but once named cannot be changed til following season
Just clicked on the main board and my virus scanner came back with this

"When we visited this site, we found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors."


:lmao

Strip his knighthood https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47770

Offline CornerTakenQuickly

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17339 on: May 13, 2021, 07:09:28 pm »
Do you know if a ticket is transferred to F&F for a cup game who gets the credit (I know that credits don't count for the next season for future seasons, but they will count for the rest of the competition in 2021/22).

Offline Welshred

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17340 on: May 13, 2021, 09:19:51 pm »
Do you know if a ticket is transferred to F&F for a cup game who gets the credit (I know that credits don't count for the next season for future seasons, but they will count for the rest of the competition in 2021/22).

The original purchaser, its in the FAQs :)

Offline lucho07072016

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17341 on: May 14, 2021, 04:08:43 pm »
My History section is also greyed out and I cannot click on it. Just checked. Is this the same for anyone else?

Cheers

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17342 on: May 14, 2021, 07:31:03 pm »
My History section is also greyed out and I cannot click on it. Just checked. Is this the same for anyone else?

Cheers

Yeah mine is too!! I’m hoping they’re updating how you search what games you’ve attended. It’s a nightmare trying to find out if I went to see certain games and what comp it was in

Offline Samio

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17343 on: May 14, 2021, 07:49:57 pm »
Hopefully it’s actually them putting the games that were cancelled back on the system - if you actually bought the tickets in the first place, obviously.

Offline stonecold_jpm

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17344 on: May 14, 2021, 08:56:25 pm »
It’s not like the club to do a u-turn is it. 😂 They’d give the government a run for its money this lot!

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17345 on: May 15, 2021, 12:00:42 am »
For those affected by the decision to ignore 19/20 credits, here are my thoughts on counter arguments to things the Club may say:

Argument:
It would be unfair on members who have enough 18/19 credits but not enough 19/20 credits.

Counter argument:
We have no idea of the numbers in this situation, but it's likely to be very low.  No-one willingly throws away their position on the ladder unless personal circumstances mean they no longer want or are able to go to games in the future (and that would likely include next season).  People who didn't buy enough tickets in 19/20 wouldn't reasonably have expected to be allowed into the 13+ sale in the following season.
Moreover, these people do NOT have to be excluded.  The Club could use the higher of:
- 18/19 credits
- 19/20 credits pro-rated
- 19/20 credits including tickets purchase for cancelled games

Argument:
The Club never give credits for matches not attended and where the tickets have been refunded.

Counter argument:
That is conflating two separate things.  It's quite right that if you as a supporter choose to cancel a ticket or give your ticket to someone else, you don't get the credit.  This fits in with the ethos, that is broadly supported, that in the future, you only get a credit if you attend a match.  But here we have the unprecedented situation of the Club being forced to cancel attendance at games.  That's not the same thing.  There is no reason why the Club cannot choose to treat this situation differently and honour credits for those cancelled games.  People bought 19/20 tickets reasonably expecting loyalty credits on those purchases.  Many will have bought 13 matches in 19/20 to get up the ladder.  Which 13 of the 19 matches they bought should not be relevant.

Argument:
Including 19/20 credits would mean there are too many qualifying members for the guaranteed members' sale.

Counter argument:
I've seen various figures in this thread from 300 to 1,100 extra qualifying members.  I don't know what the source of these figures is or how accurate they are.  I do know that some members who failed to complete the Fan Update got knocked off the ladder and that brought down numbers.  Whatever the actual numbers, let's contemplate would have happened if the 19/20 season had been played out with full crowd attendance?  Those 300 to 1,100 would have qualified for the next seaon's 13+ members' sale, so the Club would have had to deal with those numbers.  I don't know what they would have done.  Maybe they would have set the qualifying bar at 14 games.  They could still do that.  Or maybe the numbers aren't as big as claimed.  Or they could just accept the higher number of qualifying members for next season, and adjust the bar from 13 to 14 games the season after.

Argument:
The Club has consulted the Fan Forum and agreed this approach.

Counter argument:
RAWK member Harinder, who is one of the people selected by the Club to be on the Fan Forum, seems to suggest this isn't what happened.  When I asked, he didn't confirm that any alternative ideas, such as those I put forward above, were ever discussed.  I am not aware of the wider membership being consulted on this at all.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 12:07:25 am by MKB »

Offline TeddyTime33

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17346 on: May 15, 2021, 01:51:19 am »
Those are all absolutely vaild points mate, club don't seem to care and fan groups cleary aren't bothered enough either, the 2nd last point is the best imo, the club would've accommodated everyone in a normal year even if they had to adjust the guaranteed number which would've been fairer than this
« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 01:53:53 am by TeddyTime33 »

Offline Agent Bobby

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17347 on: May 15, 2021, 07:53:17 am »
You should be able to if you have it pro-rata or bought 13 prior to the cancellations

If you cant get in the fb group there's a whatsapp invite link here
https://chat.whatsapp.com/L9X93ckfuQTJAxxIjSl80o

I am one of the fans affected with 13+ from 19/20. Can you send a link to the facebook group?

Offline Alf

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17348 on: May 15, 2021, 09:22:45 am »
I had all home league games for the previous 2 seasons, but am no longer a member.

I think the club should have either have gone pro rata for 19/20 so 10 or 11 games or used an aggregate from 18/19 & 19/20 of 23 games. I seem to recall a lot of people missing out for Aston Villa & Sheffield United in the bulk sale in November 2019 due to it being a Cat C sale, so understand why they wouldn’t use games that fans wasn’t allowed in for in the criteria.

Offline bertiemee

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17349 on: May 16, 2021, 12:49:08 am »
that would be wrong imo, very very closed shop

Lol. Mad how a closed shop for aways or the league 13+ group is fine, but the auto cup scheme is suddenly a negative one for this argument?

Need consistency across the board. You can't have 1 rule for 1 and another rule for another

Offline bertiemee

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17350 on: May 16, 2021, 12:56:25 am »
ACS

Have had many folks message me and I can see from comments in here it's all a bit pants thanks to the way the FAQ's have been worded. I've emailed club for clarity. I will reiterate though that in all meetings, it's never been said folks qualifying for ACS based on set criteria etc would need to be balloted. My take on it is rather straight forward. If you meet ACS criteria, you get to register, pick a seat etc as you normally do and as cup competitions progress they process the ticket sale and so on.

The ballot aspect is confusing in FAQ's. It definitely needs clearing up.

Thanks Harinder. And if the club have reacted to the group of 300 causing a fuss about league credits, I strongly suggest they drop any ideas of a ballot around ACS. Not sure why a year of Covid would give them any sort of effin change to fuck the lads who've not missed a cup game for years.

Offline TeddyTime33

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17351 on: May 16, 2021, 07:14:42 am »
Lol. Mad how a closed shop for aways or the league 13+ group is fine, but the auto cup scheme is suddenly a negative one for this argument?

Need consistency across the board. You can't have 1 rule for 1 and another rule for another
of course those aren't fine

Offline 30fiver

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17352 on: May 16, 2021, 12:28:37 pm »
I am one of the fans affected with 13+ from 19/20. Can you send a link to the facebook group?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/549412822890456/

Offline Harinder

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17353 on: May 17, 2021, 11:49:26 am »
For those affected by the decision to ignore 19/20 credits, here are my thoughts on counter arguments to things the Club may say:

Argument:
It would be unfair on members who have enough 18/19 credits but not enough 19/20 credits.

Counter argument:
We have no idea of the numbers in this situation, but it's likely to be very low.  No-one willingly throws away their position on the ladder unless personal circumstances mean they no longer want or are able to go to games in the future (and that would likely include next season).  People who didn't buy enough tickets in 19/20 wouldn't reasonably have expected to be allowed into the 13+ sale in the following season.
Moreover, these people do NOT have to be excluded.  The Club could use the higher of:
- 18/19 credits
- 19/20 credits pro-rated
- 19/20 credits including tickets purchase for cancelled games

Argument:
The Club never give credits for matches not attended and where the tickets have been refunded.

Counter argument:
That is conflating two separate things.  It's quite right that if you as a supporter choose to cancel a ticket or give your ticket to someone else, you don't get the credit.  This fits in with the ethos, that is broadly supported, that in the future, you only get a credit if you attend a match.  But here we have the unprecedented situation of the Club being forced to cancel attendance at games.  That's not the same thing.  There is no reason why the Club cannot choose to treat this situation differently and honour credits for those cancelled games.  People bought 19/20 tickets reasonably expecting loyalty credits on those purchases.  Many will have bought 13 matches in 19/20 to get up the ladder.  Which 13 of the 19 matches they bought should not be relevant.

Argument:
Including 19/20 credits would mean there are too many qualifying members for the guaranteed members' sale.

Counter argument:
I've seen various figures in this thread from 300 to 1,100 extra qualifying members.  I don't know what the source of these figures is or how accurate they are.  I do know that some members who failed to complete the Fan Update got knocked off the ladder and that brought down numbers.  Whatever the actual numbers, let's contemplate would have happened if the 19/20 season had been played out with full crowd attendance?  Those 300 to 1,100 would have qualified for the next seaon's 13+ members' sale, so the Club would have had to deal with those numbers.  I don't know what they would have done.  Maybe they would have set the qualifying bar at 14 games.  They could still do that.  Or maybe the numbers aren't as big as claimed.  Or they could just accept the higher number of qualifying members for next season, and adjust the bar from 13 to 14 games the season after.

Argument:
The Club has consulted the Fan Forum and agreed this approach.

Counter argument:
RAWK member Harinder, who is one of the people selected by the Club to be on the Fan Forum, seems to suggest this isn't what happened.  When I asked, he didn't confirm that any alternative ideas, such as those I put forward above, were ever discussed.  I am not aware of the wider membership being consulted on this at all.

Correction on latter... counter argument put across was to look at previous years (last 3 if I recall)


One of the things pushed back with was taking a look over 3 seasons re 13+ and the 300. Better place to push once known how many register to attend in 21/22 to be honest. I know a few folks personally in that 300 bracket and it's very gutting for all.

Just clicked on the main board and my virus scanner came back with this

"When we visited this site, we found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors."


:lmao

Strip his knighthood https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47770

Offline Harinder

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17354 on: May 17, 2021, 11:56:17 am »
on ACS, this ballot thingy is a confusing nonsense. It's come about from the small amount that were at risk last season too from the UEFA allocation risk. I can't find the link to the updated announcement from club back then on it but I recall there was the same amount of furore prior to it. In the end I don't think anyone was impacted by it but if wrong I'm happy to be corrected. People expecting to be impacted signed up to ACS in 19/20 with no issues.

The irony is that this UEFA allocation that they're pre-determined to be able to claim is never fully claimed. Such an annoying organisation!
Just clicked on the main board and my virus scanner came back with this

"When we visited this site, we found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors."


:lmao

Strip his knighthood https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47770

Offline PaulKS

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17355 on: May 17, 2021, 01:39:35 pm »
My History section is also greyed out and I cannot click on it. Just checked. Is this the same for anyone else?

Cheers

Same

I heard from a good source that they're wiping all credits and putting everyone on zero for fairness  :no

Offline 30fiver

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17356 on: May 17, 2021, 02:13:25 pm »
Same

I heard from a good source that they're wiping all credits and putting everyone on zero for fairness  :no


HAHAHAHA

Offline scouser102002

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17357 on: May 17, 2021, 02:18:30 pm »
Same

I heard from a good source that they're wiping all credits and putting everyone on zero for fairness  :no

Whoever told you that was on the good sauce.

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17358 on: May 17, 2021, 08:43:07 pm »
on ACS, this ballot thingy is a confusing nonsense. It's come about from the small amount that were at risk last season too from the UEFA allocation risk. I can't find the link to the updated announcement from club back then on it but I recall there was the same amount of furore prior to it. In the end I don't think anyone was impacted by it but if wrong I'm happy to be corrected. People expecting to be impacted signed up to ACS in 19/20 with no issues.

The irony is that this UEFA allocation that they're pre-determined to be able to claim is never fully claimed. Such an annoying organisation!

Isn't the difference that we got to a European Cup final in 2019, therefore the amount of people qualifying for the ACS was less than it will be the forthcoming season, with just the four games and no big semi final vs Barcelona?
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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #17359 on: May 18, 2021, 06:58:04 am »
Isn't the difference that we got to a European Cup final in 2019, therefore the amount of people qualifying for the ACS was less than it will be the forthcoming season, with just the four games and no big semi final vs Barcelona?

Exactly