Topic: Simon Mignolet

[WillG.LFC]

Decent keeper but not top 4 quality ultimately. Doubt any of our rivals would have him ahead of their keepers.

[classycarra]

whatever about flapping at cross or parrying the ball into the danger zone, the cowardice he displayed when giving away the penalty is unforgiveable.

and no i dont care whether or not he stopped it. get rid now.

No I don't care whether our keeper saves things, because he's not what I want. And that's more important. Me me me.

Honestly, this spoilt generation are bad enough with our outfield players, but at least they have a vague understanding of good outfield play. You'd all have shipped Grobellaar before he finished his second game.

[classycarra]

Didn't see the game, just caught the goals highlights on You Tube. Made some decent saves, fuck knows what he was doing for the penalty, just get your foot through the ball. What I did notice though was on the Vardy goal, he's done that fucking stupid bounce again as the ball is being struck, putting himself off the ground, which is why he gets such a poor hand on the shot. He probably doesn't even know he's doing it, so its never going to stop. 

A poor hand?  Sorry, no. That's bollocks.

And his setting himself didn't stop him making the save, so it's weird to cite that as some kind of evidence against him

You should watch the game anyway, he played well. You can at least have a proper assessment of his performance that way. Did all the things people whinge about him (coming off his line, claiming corners, being proactive) plus saved a penalty.

[John C]

Thought he was boss today. The goals conceded were 1) Matip lacking pace and 2) Bad luck clattering Vardy, you can blame him I suppose but I remember when we used to roast him for NOT RUSHING OUT!

We didn't concede from that. As you say, he saved the penalty.

[Anfield89]

Another stupid 'media' comment about keepers 'doing a stupid bounce' it helps spring yourself when diving its why every keeper sets their self.

[WorldChampions]

A poor hand?  Sorry, no. That's bollocks.

And his setting himself didn't stop him making the save, so it's weird to cite that as some kind of evidence against him

You should watch the game anyway, he played well. You can at least have a proper assessment of his performance that way. Did all the things people whinge about him (coming off his line, claiming corners, being proactive) plus saved a penalty.

He came off his line and gave away a penalty. Came to claim a corner and missed it leading to a goal. Superb stuff.


And that doesn't include the numerous times he kicked it long to nobody, although he isn't the only one. Lovren is really bad for that too.

[harryc]

A poor hand?  Sorry, no. That's bollocks.

And his setting himself didn't stop him making the save, so it's weird to cite that as some kind of evidence against him

You should watch the game anyway, he played well. You can at least have a proper assessment of his performance that way. Did all the things people whinge about him (coming off his line, claiming corners, being proactive) plus saved a penalty.

He did all the things we expect of him no doubt at all.

[CowboyKangaroo]

Didn't see the game, just caught the goals highlights on You Tube. Made some decent saves, fuck knows what he was doing for the penalty, just get your foot through the ball. What I did notice though was on the Vardy goal, he's done that fucking stupid bounce again as the ball is being struck, putting himself off the ground, which is why he gets such a poor hand on the shot. He probably doesn't even know he's doing it, so its never going to stop.

I wondered about this, and went to look at a compilation of top keepers to see whether they jump before diving. From Neuer, De Gea etc, they all do it reasonably frequently. I'm pretty sure the jump isn't the problem (in fact I would hazard a guess that it is good goalkeeping technique), but rather the timing of the jump that is causing an issue.

[Lustig]

He's been targeted every single game he's played from set pieces. Everyone knows that if you disturb him in the six-yard box and put a man on him he flaps.

It's something we need to take care fast.

[classycarra]

He did all the things we expect of him no doubt at all.

To be frank, it's hard to respect your view. You seem so wound up you've started being dishonest, just cos you're so worked up our keeper isn't to your taste. "Soft shot" haha. No acknowledgement of his really good claims catching the ball, and easing pressure. Was ready to release the ball quickly, but often had to wait as the team got in place. Nah that doesn't matter, I will ignore my usual line of attack today, since it doesn't help my case, and come up with something else.

[harryc]

To be frank, it's hard to respect your view. You seem so wound up you've started being dishonest, just cos you're so worked up our keeper isn't to your taste. "Soft shot" haha. No acknowledgement of his really good claims catching the ball, and easing pressure. Was ready to release the ball quickly, but often had to wait as the team got in place. Nah that doesn't matter, I will ignore my usual line of attack today, since it doesn't help my case, and come up with something else.

Sorry mate I can't make any sense of that post, fair enough it's a Saturday Night...........

[Kashinoda]

Why is it with so many penalty decisions, people sit in studios watching it from camera angles trying to decide if the defender got the slightest of touches before the attacker.

But when everyone can clearly see Mignolet gets a slight touch, one that takes it out of the path of the attacker. It's a stonewaller?

What law is it that I'm missing here.

[jillcwhomever]

Ok but no need for excuses 

I didn't think that even needed commenting on to be honest, as it was obvious.

[classycarra]

Sorry mate I can't make any sense of that post, fair enough it's a Saturday Night...........

No probs, I'll simplify it for you

When I see you saying silly stuff like this below, it becomes hard to maintain good faith that it's worth listening.:

Nope not all I mean which other keeper would have shoved Okizaki out of the way to make sure he got the ball, mind you Okizaki is about 5' 4" so a giant compared to Migs!

And obviously the only place the soft shot aimed at him could be parried was straight at Vardy.

Behave.

Laced with sarcasm in place of making any reasonable points, and then topped off with something (in bold) hilariously off base it's just being dishonest with yourself, having noticed that you needed some hyperbole to prop up your weak argument.

[mallin9]

Today was our simon in a nutshell. Great pen there, go on Simon!

[TheShanklyGates]

I don't think any player epitomises this Liverpool team better than Mignolet. Equally capable of both moments of brilliance and horrific brain farts, often in the same game.

[Miltonred]

Credit to him for saving the penalty he gave away. Glad he did his homework on Vardy, who always goes central, and credit to him for keeping his nerve and standing up. If Vardy changes his mind and goes for either corner of the goal, Simon looks like a complete chump.

Personally I would just go with Ward at this point.

[thekitkatshuffler]

It'll take a lot better goalie than Karius to dethrone him.

If only we could unearth our very own Péter Gulácsi... 

[thekitkatshuffler]

??

What's with the fake-quoting?

Naughty.

[JackWard33]

What's with the fake-quoting?

Naughty.

too drunk for this...

[thekitkatshuffler]

too drunk for this...

I'm exactly drunk enough for this. 

[BER]

Why is it with so many penalty decisions, people sit in studios watching it from camera angles trying to decide if the defender got the slightest of touches before the attacker.

But when everyone can clearly see Mignolet gets a slight touch, one that takes it out of the path of the attacker. It's a stonewaller?

What law is it that I'm missing here.

Not every tackle that wins the ball is a fair one i suppose.

[Kashinoda]

Not every tackle that wins the ball is a fair one i suppose.

In other words, it's all bollox ?

[BabuYagu]

We nearly lost out on top four last year cos of what you're suggesting. It'd be stupid to repeat the same mistake two years running.

2016/17 Mignolet Points per game = 1,96
2016/17 Karius Points per game = 2,10

2016/17 Karius Goals Conceded per game = 1,10
2016/17 Mignolet Goals Conceded per game = 1,11

League Position when Karius was dropped = 3rd, 4 points behind Chelsea, 1 ahead of City, 3 ahead of Spurs

Nobody is saying Karius came in last season and grabbed the opportunity he was given, but let's not go mental with any extreme shouts in the opposite direction either like this. 

Your argument lacks data!

[BabuYagu]

Best penalty saver in Europe?

I looked recently and he isn't even top 50. Although most of the top ones listed are not top goalkeepers, it seems it's mostly just solid keepers who excel in saving penalties. Gomes of Watford was up there. Karius was 17th - from his time in Mainz. Think Diego (who has now returned to Brazil) was #1 with a 50% save rate. Which is insane!

[BabuYagu]

Honestly your 'analysis' falls down at the first hurdle. 'Handling anyone but Simon', have you seen Karius coming off his line? Laughable.

And your cross analysis falls down at the first hurdle as "Handling" didn't even feature on his list.

[BabuYagu]

Thought he was boss today. The goals conceded were 1) Matip lacking pace and 2) Bad luck clattering Vardy, you can blame him I suppose but I remember when we used to roast him for NOT RUSHING OUT!

He SAVED ANOTHER PENALTY and you aren't gonna find that easily in anyone else. His distribution was decent, I think the rest of the team let him down to be honest. Towards the end he had a real urgency, was trying to get it further up.

I blame out back four for hanging back - passing back to the keeper.

Simon showed balls of steel after his yellow by storming back to goal and saving Vardy's pen.

I think it's time to divorce Simon from the defensive complaints - Matip played decent but lost his man a few times, and overall when the keeper is exposed it's only a matter of time til one edges past him.

Well done Simon.

Checked into this in the summer after people were roasting Danny Ward for not saving a single penalty.

In terms of the best goalkeepers in europe in saving penalties.
17. Loris Karius - Liverpool (34.78%)

Mignolet wasn´t in the top 50 list. I checked and his record is 10/40 = 25%

Wards record is 2/15 = 13,3%

Bearing in mind that in the Premier League 83% of penalties are scored, Ward is way below average. Mignolet is above average and Karius is at an elite level in terms of saving them.

Adjusting for this season, 12/42 puts Migs on 28,57%.

[DanA]

A poor hand?  Sorry, no. That's bollocks.

And his setting himself didn't stop him making the save, so it's weird to cite that as some kind of evidence against him

You should watch the game anyway, he played well. You can at least have a proper assessment of his performance that way. Did all the things people whinge about him (coming off his line, claiming corners, being proactive) plus saved a penalty.

I wouldn't call it a good game. It was a mixed bag but ultimately 1 or 2 mistakes is bad for a keeper.

1. He went for a cross and didn't make it
2. He coughed up that turnover that should have been an easy goal
3. He gave away a penalty
4. He parried the ball into the path of Vardy

He obviously did some good things, and I think if the ref did his job properly then a couple of those "mistakes" wouldn't be talked about. But there is no way in hell I would call that a good game.

[BabuYagu]

I wondered about this, and went to look at a compilation of top keepers to see whether they jump before diving. From Neuer, De Gea etc, they all do it reasonably frequently. I'm pretty sure the jump isn't the problem (in fact I would hazard a guess that it is good goalkeeping technique), but rather the timing of the jump that is causing an issue.

I was reading the twitter feed from a keeper coach about this. think it was Swansea youth team, or might have been Dan Gaspar. He was saying something about how when the ball is moving, the keeper must be moving to adjust his position and if there is no adjustment to be made then you bounce to stay on your toes. You set yourself when a player looks like he will shoot.

So I imagine you want to bounce and land just before the ball is struck. Not after as then you are slower to dive.

He also explained positioning in a way I liked too. Think of it as an anchor on the goal line in the middle of the goal and a rope is passing through your body, out your belly button and into the ball. Obviously this doesn't tell you anything about how close or far from the ball you should be positioned but it's a nice starting point. Out of interest I looked at a couple of goal replays from youth games I have on my computer to watch and when I draw a line from ball to mid point of the goal line it almost always passed straight though the keeper as described.

[BabuYagu]

Why is it with so many penalty decisions, people sit in studios watching it from camera angles trying to decide if the defender got the slightest of touches before the attacker.

But when everyone can clearly see Mignolet gets a slight touch, one that takes it out of the path of the attacker. It's a stonewaller?

What law is it that I'm missing here.

It's the inconsistency. I remember Moreno and Lovren getting slight touches on the ball and being told it was penalties because you can't just touch the ball then wipe out the player. You need to win it and clear it.

If you go here and read the comments on the Moreno penalty against Arsenal for example, there is a general agreement from people that if you dive in it doesn't matter if you touch the ball, it looks reckless and gives the ref a decision to make.



For me those are either both penalties or neither of them are. I think neither. But then I am biased as fuck Unforutnately cannot remember the Lovren one but it was very similar. Have a feeling it wasn't given but Lovren haters wished it was some people suggest it should have been at the time.

[Kashinoda]

It's the inconsistency. I remember Moreno and Lovren getting slight touches on the ball and being told it was penalties because you can't just touch the ball then wipe out the player. You need to win it and clear it.

If you go here and read the comments on the Moreno penalty against Arsenal for example, there is a general agreement from people that if you dive in it doesn't matter if you touch the ball, it looks reckless and gives the ref a decision to make.



For me those are either both penalties or neither of them are. I think neither. But then I am biased as fuck Unforutnately cannot remember the Lovren one but it was very similar. Have a feeling it wasn't given but Lovren haters wished it was some people suggest it should have been at the time.

If you can't touch the ball and wipe out a player, would we have received a free kick against City if Mane didn't lead with his foot? There's way too much ambiguity in the rules.

The Moreno one is hard because even though he gets a slight touch, he doesn't affect the path of the ball.... and the resulting contact is pretty awful.

With the Mignolet one on Vardy, you can see clear as day that that Mignolet's touch completely takes it out the path Vardy is taking it... it's literally going towards our goal and ends up going the opposite direction. It's not particularly high or dangerous. There's a coming together but the tackle is successful, I'm astonished it's been so widely perceived as a nailed on penalty. It's anything to fit the narrative our defence is shite, it's the media I'm talking here.

Whilst we're talking about inconsistency, what happened to the clamp down on shirt pulling? Lovren has a stonewall penalty missed by the ref and gets a card for his troubles. But everyone decides to fuck that off their 'analysis' so we can focus on Can's 'handball', because ya know, we're fucking weak at the back.

 

[penga]

Mignolet just goes to clear the ball as you normally would with your foot, but Vardy's pace makes it close.

The exact same situation happened twice to Moreno who clears the ball then a split second later Vardy runs into him - even though Moreno's swinging leg catches Vardy both times, it is a foul against Vardy both times because Moreno goes for the clearance and gets the ball first which is the same as Mignolet, except in this instance was a scuffed clearance. Just because it was scuffed does not mean he didn't play the ball, and it doesn't make it a foul. Easily no penalty, terrible refereeing.

[BabuYagu]

If you can't touch the ball and wipe out a player, would we have received a free kick against City if Mane didn't lead with his foot? There's way too much ambiguity in the rules.

The Moreno one is hard because even though he gets a slight touch, he doesn't affect the path of the ball.... and the resulting contact is pretty awful.

With the Mignolet one on Vardy, you can see clear as day that that Mignolet's touch completely takes it out the path Vardy is taking it... it's literally going towards our goal and ends up going the opposite direction. It's not particularly high or dangerous. There's a coming together but the tackle is successful, I'm astonished it's been so widely perceived as a nailed on penalty. It's anything to fit the narrative our defence is shite, it's the media I'm talking here.

Whilst we're talking about inconsistency, what happened to the clamp down on shirt pulling? Lovren has a stonewall penalty missed by the ref and gets a card for his troubles. But everyone decides to fuck that off their 'analysis' so we can focus on Can's 'handball', because ya know, we're fucking weak at the back.

 

I would disagree, I think the Migs one looks worse as his foot is hitting Vardy in the old testicle region. It doesn't really matter though because we are talking minute differences now.

I think the explanation Howard Webb, who is now a rent-a-gob(shite) for one of the TV stations in the US where I download streams from gave last season was that if Moreno doesn't touch Walcott then Walcott would likely have got the ball after the tackle. I would say the same would be true of that Migs one. Mignolet isn't in control of the ball, infact he somehow ends up kicking it behind himself. If he doesn't touch Vardy then would be the most likely of the two to get the ball. I assume this is how referees judge these decisions.

Ultimately those two incidents are as similar as you will get when it comes to penalties.

[BabuYagu]

Same as the Mane shout, I just want referees to come out after the game and explain the rationale. I can accept all the decisions then because it gives me an answer. Reading the actual laws of the game is pointless because they are intentionally vague to allow the referees latitude to make judgements in certain situations. Which makes it impossible for any of us to say with any certainty one way or another.

I always believed if you made contact with the ball first, it wasn't a penalty but that seems to have been changed somewhere along the way. Now it seems you have to win and clear the ball away from the opponent. If you merely touch the ball then wipe the opponent out, the touch is irrelevant as you were never in control.

[Richie69]

Might as well see what Ward has at this point.  With SM it's not like we don't have a reasonable period of time to judge on.

[McrRed]

Might as well see what Ward has at this point.  With SM it's not like we don't have a reasonable period of time to judge on.

I'd say it was a ridiculous statement, if it wasn't so vague.

I really like the look of Ward and think he's our second best keeper (off​ a minute number of showings). But this was a (really) good game from Mignolet. Some really good saves. Good positioning. Quick releases to counter. A pen. Even the parry for vardy's goal has two defenders just watching the little gnome nod it in. Oh, and a penalty save to keep us with the three points.

Simon Mignolet is boss.

[idontknow]

It was a foul but he should be stronger in that situation and make sure he gets there.

Too right, he should have punched his fucking lights out then leapt up and claimed the ball while Taylor was gavotting towards him with a red card waving.

Unfortunately he didn't do that, he mistakenly expected a little bit of fair play even against a team like Leicester, who nudge, barge, hold, and dive with little notice from referees. He was weighed down, otherwise he would comfortably have got to that ball.

But we beat the cheats, and Mignolet saved the penalty against England's hero at a crucial time. It wasn't a penalty, but Taylor was desperate to give it and did, but Simon saved it.

He's not the greatest keeper, he has a lot of faults, but a lot of the blame he takes and has taken over the time he has been here should be directed at defenders and midfielders for not doing their jobs, and at Rodgers and now Klopp for being so beautifully attacking leaving Simon all on his own, or with Skirtl, or Lovren, or some other suddenly panic-stricken defender, between him and an opponent, whenever an attack breaks down.

He did his job against Leicester, their goals were not on him.

[Bucko - Dubai]

I think it has got to the point with the majority of fans that we know he isn't good enough so when he has an ok game some fans blow it out or proportion.

First goal - It likely was a foul, but if he has made a judgement that he will get to the ball first before he is pulled, you would think that after Okazaki has pulled him back his judgement would suggest he isnt the favourite any more and would retreat.
Second goal - Not a fan of Simon'b but it is difficult to blame him for it, a point blank save with him having no idea where Vardy could have been
Penalty - He was favourite to get to the ball first as he did, but misjudged the ball. My opinion is a lack of bravery made him half wimp out of the challenge and not concentrate on the ball. Probably wasn't a penalty but he slightly misjudged the ball which gave the referee a decision to make

I always see a way to judge a player who should be in their prime like Simon, if we say in April / May we are selling him, he is on the transfer list and we are open to offers, what clubs would bid for him? Would they be in a position of our club? I would suggest a mid-table team, like Lyon or Bournemouth.

[McrRed]

I think it has got to the point with the majority of fans that we know he isn't good enough so when he has an ok game some fans blow it out or proportion.

I instantly mark anyone who says he's rubbish as an idiot; anyone who says he's below average, as in need of education. He's a top four keeper - that's a fact. You replace him with a keeper from the top four sides. You upgrade him with a keeper of world-class quality which of course he isn't. And as we know there aren't that many of them who have the full set of attributes that we require: bravery in the most physical league, footwork, distribution, shot-stopping (not necessarily in that order!).

Karius has been a cheap punt at finding a keeper who is at the bottom of an upward trajectory - so far he's been disappointing. Hopefully with experience he'll grow some humility and become the safe pair of hands we need...but he won't be saving penalties like Migs!

Again, Ward looks a great prospect but for someone who took Huddersfield through a promotion campaign, he looks like he needs experience. Experience that will be curtailed because of the league cup exit.

It's like the VvD situation - no-one is saying we value him so highly because he's the best defender; it's because he's the right defender.

[ZeusMetallica]

I wouldn't want to be facing him in a penalty shoot out that's for sure.

Having said that he was clumsy yesterday, and I was particularly disappointed to see him doing 'a Karius' and almost costing us a goal.