Author Topic: European and World Champion and all round Big Man Joseph Dave Gomez (Read 773829 times)

spider-neil · « **Reply #120 on:** July 21, 2015, 06:24:58 am »

Pleasing that when he gets near the box he is putting in crosses with his left foot rather than taking an extra touch to check back onto his right.

clinical · « **Reply #121 on:** July 21, 2015, 09:49:24 am »

As if he only turned 18 at the end of May. I just don't believe it looks so experienced. Makes me feel ancient too

Lemieux · « **Reply #122 on:** July 21, 2015, 04:20:52 pm »

Brendan will have to be careful with how he manages his confidence and form. Most young players can crumble when that doubt and lack of confidence creeps in. Right now he looks like he knows he can play with the first team, but like Raheem did when he came through. Some players just stand out no matter what age hopefully he can continue playing this way.

newterp · « **Reply #123 on:** July 21, 2015, 06:43:51 pm »

Quote from: Solomon Grundy on July 21, 2015, 06:00:37 am

I wouldn't say he is grooming him there. It's needs must at the moment with Moreno being out injured. I'm sure he will have taken note at how comfortable he was in that position though. Albeit in a pre-season friendly.

Moreno isn't injured is he? Unless he picked up a knock after the game yesterday? I would expect Gomez is going to be asked to back up both flanks - which in the long term should help his growth as a defender. I still expect ultimately he plays CB.

CraigDS · « **Reply #124 on:** July 21, 2015, 06:45:37 pm »

Quote from: newterp on July 21, 2015, 06:43:51 pm

Moreno isn't injured is he? Unless he picked up a knock after the game yesterday? I would expect Gomez is going to be asked to back up both flanks - which in the long term should help his growth as a defender. I still expect ultimately he plays CB.

He isn't now, but he was for the first few games of pre-season which is why he only got 45 mins on Monday.

clinical · « **Reply #125 on:** July 28, 2015, 08:02:47 pm »

Would it be safe to assume at this moment in time he's our first choice left back AND right back, back up?

rickardinho1 · « **Reply #126 on:** July 28, 2015, 08:12:43 pm »

Quote from: clinical on July 28, 2015, 08:02:47 pm

Would it be safe to assume at this moment in time he's our first choice left back AND right back, back up?

Right now I'd say so.

Assuming of course that Enrique isn't in our plans I'd be surprised if we didn't move for another LB in this window now that Wisdom has gone though.

clinical · « **Reply #127 on:** July 28, 2015, 09:33:58 pm »

Quote from: rickardinho1 on July 28, 2015, 08:12:43 pm

Right now I'd say so.

Assuming of course that Enrique isn't in our plans I'd be surprised if we didn't move for another LB in this window now that Wisdom has gone though.

Yeah we 100% need one. looks like Digne is off so hopefully we find an alternative. We can't have an 18 year old first choice back up for 2 positions. It would be absolute madness

bigbear · « **Reply #128 on:** July 29, 2015, 09:42:07 pm »

Quote from: clinical on July 28, 2015, 09:33:58 pm

Yeah we 100% need one. looks like Digne is off so hopefully we find an alternative. We can't have an 18 year old first choice back up for 2 positions. It would be absolute madness

Don't rule out Can playing there (although I would).

justsean · « **Reply #129 on:** July 29, 2015, 09:45:29 pm »

was a 1 year old during France 98.

Magz50 · « **Reply #130 on:** July 29, 2015, 11:04:41 pm »

Can see this lads potential being a no.1 choice by the end of the season. Not to put pressure but I believe he has what it takes.

The Infamous_LFC · « **Reply #131 on:** July 29, 2015, 11:13:16 pm »

so rodgers must rate him he loaned out wisdom and we only got cline(unless flanno is back healthy).

The Infamous_LFC · « **Reply #132 on:** July 29, 2015, 11:15:01 pm »

Quote from: justsean on July 29, 2015, 09:45:29 pm

was a 1 year old during France 98.

That was a great tourney. Makes me feel old

exiledintheUSA · « **Reply #133 on:** July 30, 2015, 12:05:54 am »

Quote from: Magz50 on July 29, 2015, 11:04:41 pm

Can see this lads potential being a no.1 choice by the end of the season. Not to put pressure but I believe he has what it takes.

Yep, no pressure though. Think we might have a gem on our hands here.

Bobinhood · « **Reply #134 on:** July 30, 2015, 12:56:35 am »

Listen ive seen this guy play for dozens of minutes twozens of times.

Sure fire hall of famer by all accounts including my own.

Bergersrightwingviews · « **Reply #135 on:** July 30, 2015, 09:57:43 am »

Quote from: justsean on July 29, 2015, 09:45:29 pm

was a 1 year old during France 98.

My test for whether someone is a proper human being and not some impossibly young is whether they remember Euro 96. This fella wasn't even born! This is completely unacceptable. He should sod off making us all feel ancient.

I like this lad a lot, but I don't really see him as a full-back, certainly not on the left. I worry we will shatter his confidence if we play him there in the PL. Would rather see him be a nailed on starting CB in Europa and Carling Cup.

killer-heels · « **Reply #136 on:** July 30, 2015, 10:04:02 am »

Quote from: Bergersleftpeg on July 30, 2015, 09:57:43 am

My test for whether someone is a proper human being and not some impossibly young is whether they remember Euro 96. This fella wasn't even born! This is completely unacceptable. He should sod off making us all feel ancient.

I like this lad a lot, but I don't really see him as a full-back, certainly not on the left. I worry we will shatter his confidence if we play him there in the PL. Would rather see him be a nailed on starting CB in Europa and Carling Cup.

Even in the Europa and Carling Cup there is potential for him to be made to look silly at centre back as its not unlikely he will be up against some good strikers in those competitions. He kind of has to earn his stripes at full back, otherwise it will be years before he is starting at centre back.

Its a interesting situation for young centre backs. Unless you are a supreme talent or part of a very strong back four who can hold your hand (e.g. Chelsea with Zouma), you wonder what the future now is like. Very few sides will have the guts to start you and you probably will have to earn your corn playing at full back. What you have to make sure you do though is ensure you don't become like Phil Jones and get shifted around the place.

rickardinho1 · « **Reply #137 on:** July 30, 2015, 11:11:59 am »

Quote from: killer_heels on July 30, 2015, 10:04:02 am

What you have to make sure you do though is ensure you don't become like Phil Jones ~~and get shifted around the place~~.

Bergersrightwingviews · « **Reply #138 on:** July 30, 2015, 01:46:39 pm »

Quote from: killer_heels on July 30, 2015, 10:04:02 am

Even in the Europa and Carling Cup there is potential for him to be made to look silly at centre back as its not unlikely he will be up against some good strikers in those competitions. He kind of has to earn his stripes at full back, otherwise it will be years before he is starting at centre back.

Its a interesting situation for young centre backs. Unless you are a supreme talent or part of a very strong back four who can hold your hand (e.g. Chelsea with Zouma), you wonder what the future now is like. Very few sides will have the guts to start you and you probably will have to earn your corn playing at full back. What you have to make sure you do though is ensure you don't become like Phil Jones and get shifted around the place.

I am not a big fan of putting CBs at full-back. Not in a Rodgers side anyway. It was easier for Carra to play there under a manager like Houllier. Putting a right-footed CB at LB seems silly to me, but what do I know.

farawayred · « **Reply #139 on:** July 31, 2015, 02:50:02 am »

Quote from: Bergersleftpeg on July 30, 2015, 01:46:39 pm

I am not a big fan of putting CBs at full-back. Not in a Rodgers side anyway. It was easier for Carra to play there under a manager like Houllier. Putting a right-footed CB at LB seems silly to me, but what do I know.

Well, a top team cannot afford to throw in a young CB in the center of defense and risk the season. So there are two options - either earn your stripes as a FB, or go on loan to a side that doesn't have too much to fight for.

I don't know the stats about how many players have broken from the reserves straight into a top four side, but I bet it's gonna be hard to find even one.

rickardinho1 · « **Reply #140 on:** August 5, 2015, 07:27:31 pm »

Just seen this. Not bad!

https://twitter.com/england/status/628585203368210432

CrasherKid79 · « **Reply #141 on:** August 5, 2015, 07:33:23 pm »

Are we seriously thinking of throwing this kid in out of position against Stoke on Sunday. This shit needs to stop. Im surprised Can and Marcovic arent mentally scarred for life after being thrown in at full back last year

ElstonGunn · « **Reply #142 on:** August 5, 2015, 07:38:43 pm »

Quote from: CrasherKid79 on August 5, 2015, 07:33:23 pm

Are we seriously thinking of throwing this kid in out of position against Stoke on Sunday. This shit needs to stop. Im surprised Can and Marcovic arent mentally scarred for life after being thrown in at full back last year

Yep. It's totally crazy to give young players minutes outside their natural position for their development. Young CBs learning their trade at fullback is a particularly insane thing to try, as it's never worked before. Much better off on the bench.

ThePeetmix · « **Reply #143 on:** August 5, 2015, 07:41:47 pm »

Quote from: CrasherKid79 on August 5, 2015, 07:33:23 pm

Are we seriously thinking of throwing this kid in out of position against Stoke on Sunday. This shit needs to stop. Im surprised Can and Marcovic arent mentally scarred for life after being thrown in at full back last year

Full back isn't out of position for Joseph Dave.

mc_red22 · « **Reply #144 on:** August 5, 2015, 07:42:22 pm »

Quote from: CrasherKid79 on August 5, 2015, 07:33:23 pm

Are we seriously thinking of throwing this kid in out of position against Stoke on Sunday. This shit needs to stop. Im surprised Can and Marcovic arent mentally scarred for life after being thrown in at full back last year

There is a massive difference between the two situations that you mention. Gomez is actually a proper defender whereas the other two aren't.

unusg · « **Reply #145 on:** August 5, 2015, 07:45:31 pm »

its very rare nowadays for a young central defender to walk into the position with limited experience. Most managers seem to want to try them at full back to develop their learning. Works for some, not for others.

the problem arises when it is obvious the role they are being asked to play is the wrong one eg Can, Markovic at fullback. then the likelhood of a few bad games destroying confidence becomes real.

Does seem a strange move loaning out Wisdom with Flanagan so far away from recovery and no indication as to whether he will make it again.

CrasherKid79 · « **Reply #146 on:** August 5, 2015, 07:47:42 pm »

Quote from: ElstonGunn on August 5, 2015, 07:38:43 pm

Yep. It's totally crazy to give young players minutes outside their natural position for their development. Young CBs learning their trade at fullback is a particularly insane thing to try, as it's never worked before. Much better off on the bench.

Weve got a specialist left back we spent millions on last year. The whole playing players out of position didnt exactly pay off if memory serves last season. Its not as if hes slotting into a settled defence either, Clyne, Lovren and Gomez will all be new to each other. Its Rodgers being too clever for his own good. I was hoping lessons would have been learnt. Lesson 1 being full backs play at fullback.

ThePeetmix · « **Reply #147 on:** August 5, 2015, 07:55:52 pm »

Quote from: CrasherKid79 on August 5, 2015, 07:47:42 pm

Weve got a specialist left back we spent millions on last year. The whole playing players out of position didnt exactly pay off if memory serves last season. Its not as if hes slotting into a settled defence either, Clyne, Lovren and Gomez will all be new to each other. Its Rodgers being too clever for his own good. I was hoping lessons would have been learnt. Lesson 1 being full backs play at fullback.

Why can players only play one position? Why can't Gomez be a centre back AND a full back?

It's not about not playing players in their strongest position, it's about can they bring enough to a position?

CrasherKid79 · « **Reply #148 on:** August 5, 2015, 08:02:26 pm »

Quote from: ThePeetmix on August 5, 2015, 07:55:52 pm

Why can players only play one position? Why can't Gomez be a centre back AND a full back?

It's not about not playing players in their strongest position, it's about can they bring enough to a position?

Well demorilising Moreno for one. Its a clear fuck you before we begin. A kid comes straight into the club and takes his place. Its causing an issue from the get go.

exiledintheUSA · « **Reply #149 on:** August 5, 2015, 08:05:22 pm »

Quote from: CrasherKid79 on August 5, 2015, 08:02:26 pm

Well demorilising Moreno for one. Its a clear fuck you before we begin. A kid comes straight into the club and takes his place. Its causing an issue from the get go.

The issue known as competition. It might be the kick up the arse a player needs, stay and fight and make flight.

ElstonGunn · « **Reply #150 on:** August 5, 2015, 08:06:38 pm »

Quote from: CrasherKid79 on August 5, 2015, 08:02:26 pm

Well demorilising Moreno for one. Its a clear fuck you before we begin. A kid comes straight into the club and takes his place. Its causing an issue from the get go.

Well, I mean maybe Moreno should have played better.

CrasherKid79 · « **Reply #151 on:** August 5, 2015, 08:10:43 pm »

Quote from: exiledintheUSA on August 5, 2015, 08:05:22 pm

The issue known as competition. It might be the kick up the arse a player needs, stay and fight and make flight.

Hes a kid from Charlton unproven an Premier League level. By all means blood the kid in Europe (christ theres enough games). But I dont see how hes earned the right to be 1st choice there above a recognised player. Now if it was Johnson he was replacing maybe but Moreno surely doesnt deserve bombing out already?

CraigDS · « **Reply #152 on:** August 5, 2015, 08:12:28 pm »

It could easily be a fitness thing rather than a quality, given Moreno was injured during pre-season and has only played 90 mins once, in Helsinki.

Anywhichwayicant · « **Reply #153 on:** August 5, 2015, 08:12:47 pm »

So we should play Moreno, just to be nice?

CrasherKid79 · « **Reply #154 on:** August 5, 2015, 08:13:08 pm »

Quote from: ElstonGunn on August 5, 2015, 08:06:38 pm

Well, I mean maybe Moreno should have played better.

None of the defence covered themselves in glory, Moreno was far from the worst, guilty of a few brain farts yes but gave his all and showed plenty of promise in my opinion.

brownie 09 · « **Reply #155 on:** August 5, 2015, 08:13:30 pm »

Quote from: CrasherKid79 on August 5, 2015, 08:10:43 pm

Hes a kid from Charlton unproven an Premier League level. By all means blood the kid in Europe (christ theres enough games). But I dont see how hes earned the right to be 1st choice there above a recognised player. Now if it was Johnson he was replacing maybe but Moreno surely doesnt deserve bombing out already?

doesnt make him first choice at all. Thats your assumption.

Could be a whole host of reasons why he might start vs stoke over Moreno. Could be anything from fitness, to tactica,l to as you think, the manager thinking hes better then Moreno

CrasherKid79 · « **Reply #156 on:** August 5, 2015, 08:14:32 pm »

Quote from: Katie Price-tag on August 5, 2015, 08:12:47 pm

So we should play Moreno, just to be nice?

Yes, thats exactly my point, thankyou for clarifying it for me sir

rickardinho1 · « **Reply #157 on:** August 5, 2015, 08:15:51 pm »

Quote from: CrasherKid79 on August 5, 2015, 08:02:26 pm

Well demorilising Moreno for one. Its a clear fuck you before we begin. A kid comes straight into the club and takes his place. Its causing an issue from the get go.

Moreno had a shorter preseason due to injury so that might be a factor, but he quite frankly needs to up his level. If an 18 year old can come in and take your job, its not because there's an issue with the team or manager, its because YOU are shit.

Mentally strong players like Carragher would have fought tooth-and-nail and given everything to not lose their place in the team, and if Moreno has any of that same winning mentality then he'll knuckle down and work hard in training to eradicate his weaknesses. If not, well then it was the right decision to go with Gomez and Moreno is free to leave, simple. A bit of adversity and competition might be just the kick up the backside he needs after a season of complacency as an undisputed starter.

simesy · « **Reply #158 on:** August 5, 2015, 08:17:26 pm »

It may be the case of wanting a pure solid defender for the stoke game, safety first if you like rather than a semi-fit moreno who at the moment is more like a wing back.

CrasherKid79 · « **Reply #159 on:** August 5, 2015, 08:26:44 pm »

Quote from: simesy on August 5, 2015, 08:17:26 pm

It may be the case of wanting a pure solid defender for the stoke game, safety first if you like rather than a semi-fit moreno who at the moment is more like a wing back.

I hope thats the case and it may well be the reason. I just prefer players to where possible barring injury play where they naturally fit. Id love to see the likes of Markovic actually tried in the front three for example.