Topic: Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

[Agent99]

Wonder if it's the same knee he had the major surgery on?

[Ghost Town]

...in the free world?

Ha! Why not? Though I think Neil Young's a Spurs fan. He keeps singing that he likes Harry Kane

[Reeves]

Well thats that then.

Do you disagree and if so why?

[duvva 💅]

Well thats that then.

Yep, best sell while he can still stand up

[El Lobo]

Do you disagree and if so why?

Because even though 75% of what you wrote was bullshit, the other 25% was just guesswork and ended up also being bullshit.

He played practically a full season for us, before his big injury and again since he returned.

[Reeves]

Because even though 75% of what you wrote was bullshit, the other 25% was just guesswork and ended up also being bullshit.

He played practically a full season for us, before his big injury and again since he returned.

What’s bullshit is random and arbitrary assessments of 75% and 25%.

Do you accept that’s some players are more injury prone than others?

And those that are are less reliable?

And is Ox in that category?

[duvva 💅]

What’s bullshit is random and arbitrary assessments of 75% and 25%.

Do you accept that’s some players are more injury prone than others?

And those that are are less reliable?

And is Ox in that category?

What evidence is there that outside of his horrendous injury Ox is more injury prone than anyone else for us?

[Reeves]

What evidence is there that outside of his horrendous injury Ox is more injury prone than anyone else for us?

Now that’s the sensible statistics based objective question rather than asserting 75/25% nonsense per Fucking Appalled..  Per my earlier message I’ve not looked at the stats, that’s feel. But I would suggest if I asked 100 football fans if Ox is injury prone or not the vast majority would say yes. I think he is. Same as Owen, Anderson, Redknapp. Maybe less so, but he’s hardly a VVD. In fact just checked out his injury history which I suggest supports my assertion: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/alex-oxlade-chamberlain/verletzungen/spieler/143424

[duvva 💅]

Now that’s the sensible statistics based objective question rather than asserting 75/25% nonsense per Fucking Appalled..  Per my earlier message I’ve not looked at the stats, that’s feel. But I would suggest if I asked 100 football fans if Ox is injury prone or not the vast majority would say yes. I think he is. Same as Owen, Anderson, Redknapp. Maybe less so, but he’s hardly a VVD. In fact just checked out his injury history which I suggest supports my assertion: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/alex-oxlade-chamberlain/verletzungen/spieler/143424

I’d say those stats support the fact that since joining us he’s only had one injury aside from the big one that caused him to miss more than 2 weeks, and that was immediately after trying to come back from the surgery.
Pretty much supports the argument that he’s not injury prone anymore and nothing like Redknapp, Owen or as has been suggested Sturridge.

[Reeves]

Just asked some mates on a WhatsApp group who support spurs, arsenal, wrexham and Utd.

The comments were:

1) I’m not an avid follower of his career but my perception is he’s injury prone
2) was always injured for us;
3) often injured. Maybe because he’s explosive.but has never nailed down a place and injuries haven’t helped. But often seems injured for arsenal, Liverpool and England;
4) bench player, if he could stay fit he might be quality, but he can’t seem to

It’s funny how people poo poo assessing football by stats (assists etc) and say sometimes you just need to see with your eyes. Yet on this issue stats matter.

Either way, my objective assessment, and that of most objective others, or by reference to that link above. In my opinion he’s injury prone. Very sad. But we can’t bank on him starting  40 games
 

[reddebs]

Do we need to rely on him for 40 starts?

[duvva 💅]

Just because people’s perception is one thing doesn’t mean it’s true, as those stats show. You could say at Arsenal he seemed injury prone and the stats may well support that, however it’s not the case for us.
Which is why saying he’s injury prone or that he’ll probably miss most of the season etc is over the top and unnecessary.

Given the bad injury he’s had, could he become more susceptible? He might be, but shall we just wait and see rather than write him off?

[Reeves]

Do we need to rely on him for 40 starts?

No, not at all. I suggested we should accept half a season. That’ll do us. And he can make a real difference when he plays or comes of the bench

[Reeves]

:buttJust because people’s perception is one thing doesn’t mean it’s true, as those stats show. You could say at Arsenal he seemed injury prone and the stats may well support that, however it’s not the case for us.
Which is why saying he’s injury prone or that he’ll probably miss most of the season etc is over the top and unnecessary.

Given the bad injury he’s had, could he become more susceptible? He might be shall we just wait and see rather than write him off?

I don’t write him off. Equally I don’t think he’s always fit. It’s not black nor white.

Unavailability most of the season is an exaggeration. I broadly suggest half. It may be 3/8ths or 2/8ths but his body is not as reliable as many. He is on the more injury prone side than not.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

No, not at all. I suggested we should accept half a season. That’ll do us. And he can make a real difference when he plays or comes of the bench

He's been fit for 90 percent of last season, and in his first season he didn't have any issues until April when he did his knee in, which is more than half of the season, it's pretty much all of the season.

2017/2018 - 32 appearances in the league, 42 overall
2019/2020 - 30 appearances in the league, 43 overall

That's undoubtedly more than half a season. That's majority of the season in 2 out of the 3 years.

[Reeves]

He's been fit for 90 percent of last season, and in his first season he didn't have any issues until April when he did his knee in, which is more than half of the season, it's pretty much all of the season.

2017/2018 - 32 appearances in the league, 42 overall
2019/2020 - 30 appearances in the league, 43 overall

That's undoubtedly more than half a season. That's majority of the season in 2 out of the 3 years.
[/quotE

He's been fit for 90 percent of last season, and in his first season he didn't have any issues until April when he did his knee in, which is more than half of the season, it's pretty much all of the season.

2017/2018 - 32 appearances in the league, 42 overall
2019/2020 - 30 appearances in the league, 43 overall

That's undoubtedly more than half a season. That's majority of the season in 2 out of the 3 years.

One can’t just ignore an ACL!!

What’s his availability percentage since joining and at Arsenal?

My perception is it’s low compared with the average availability of a premier league player. I suspect that’s cirrect

[Eeyore]

He's been fit for 90 percent of last season, and in his first season he didn't have any issues until April when he did his knee in, which is more than half of the season, it's pretty much all of the season.

2017/2018 - 32 appearances in the league, 42 overall
2019/2020 - 30 appearances in the league, 43 overall

That's undoubtedly more than half a season. That's majority of the season in 2 out of the 3 years.

How many times has he been fit enough to complete the 90 minutes though. The Ox is hugely dynamic and I love watching him burst through the lines but there has to be questions about his durability and his endurance.

[Reeves]

How many times has he been fit enough to complete the 90 minutes though. The Ox is hugely dynamic and I love watching him burst through the lines but there has to be questions about his durability and his endurance.

Completely agree. On top of low level games in a season, the games he does play are as a sub or for 60 minutes. Can’t believe any objective analysis can conclude anything but his fitness is questionable. Regrettable  but felt by arsenal fans, Liverpool fans, and neutrals. It’s just true .

[billylad]

I Believe....AOC.... thats it.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

One can’t just ignore an ACL!!

What’s his availability percentage since joining and at Arsenal?

My perception is it’s low compared with the average availability of a premier league player. I suspect that’s cirrect

One can provide context to said injury, it's a freak injury which can occur to anyone. It was unfortunate that it happened to him, nobody is ignoring that season but it's already been established that he's recovered and played an entire season without  major injuries after recovering from said injury. What he has now is nothing severe, henderson literally has the same injury.

He's made for appearances for us in the league than he has for Arsenal [per each season].

Looking at his injuries at Arsenal, in his earlier days he was prone to more injuries through out the season.

13/14 - 3 separate injuries, out for 200 days
14/15 - 3 separate injuries, out for 100 days
15/16 - 3 separate injuries, out for 140 plus days

He then went a whole year without any injuries and that was in 16/17, with just a hamstring, he missed about 17 days.

He then went for almost a whole year without injury up until doing his ACL/MCL in May 2017.


It's fair and accurate to say that he was injury prone in the earlier parts of his career. It's fair and correct to say that has been reduced in terms of different types of injuries and the frequencies of them since then.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

How many times has he been fit enough to complete the 90 minutes though. The Ox is hugely dynamic and I love watching him burst through the lines but there has to be questions about his durability and his endurance.

in 2017/2018 he played more than 60 minutes, on 22 occasions. 13 of those were full 90 minutes, 3 games of 80 plus minutes. The rest I couldn't be arsed breaking down.

[Reeves]

Gerard starts and plays 90 minutes. You dont take him off.
Same for Viera, Keane, yaya, Scott Parker, Lampard, scholes etc.Ox generally starts for 66 minutes or gets brought on for 25/30 minutes. He’s just not a starter or fit enough to be. Can’t believe it isn’t straightforwardly accepted. Any neutral forum it would be. I accept this isn’t a neutral forum though!

[Eeyore]

in 2017/2018 he played more than 60 minutes, on 22 occasions. 13 of those were full 90 minutes, 3 games of 80 plus minutes. The rest I couldn't be arsed breaking down.

I will do it for you.

In 17-18 in the Premier League Mo Salah played 2,921 minutes. The Ox played 1484 minutes which meant he was 15th in our squad for appearances that season. To put that into perspective Klavan played 1449 minutes.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I will do it for you.

In 17-18 in the Premier League Mo Salah played 2,921 minutes. The Ox played 1484 minutes which meant he was 15th in our squad for appearances that season. To put that into perspective Klavan played 1449 minutes.

And you're the king of taking things out of context.

Particularly when it has been numerously repeated by the manager and by the player, that he needed time to adapt to what was asked of him in midfield. The same thing that happened to fabinho for instance, and with Keita [when he was fit].

But why provide context.

[that's not even taking into consideration whether or not substitutions were tactical changes,etc... but hey why provide that]. You're more likely to change a player in midfield than you are a CB.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Gerard starts and plays 90 minutes. You dont take him off.
Same for Viera, Keane, yaya, Scott Parker, Lampard, scholes etc.Ox generally starts for 66 minutes or gets brought on for 25/30 minutes. He’s just not a starter or fit enough to be. Can’t believe it isn’t straightforwardly accepted. Any neutral forum it would be. I accept this isn’t a neutral forum though!

We're arguing two different things now. You're the one who said that we have to accept that he will only be available for us half the season.

That hasn't been the case for 2 out of the 3 seasons.

So now you want to move goalposts about when he's starting, when he's being taken off,etc...

[Reeves]

We're arguing two different things now. You're the one who said that we have to accept that he will only be available for us half the season.

That hasn't been the case for 2 out of the 3 seasons.

So now you want to move goalposts about when he's starting, when he's being taken off,etc...

You’re splitting hairs. My point is he’s regrettably an injury prone player. Let’s all stop beating about the bush. To suggest otherwise is fanciful. If you ask Ox he’ll tell you that regrettably injuries have massively inhibited his career.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

You’re splitting hairs. My point is he’s regrettably an injury prone player. Let’s all stop beating about the bush. To suggest otherwise is fanciful. If you ask Ox he’ll tell you that regrettably injuries have massively inhibited his career.

No your point was that we need to accept that he's going to be only useful for half a season. I provided you proof that hasn't been the case bar the one unfortunate injury that he's had.

I also said that he's been prone to injuries in the earlier parts of his career, with numerous and various injuries through out each season that he kept him out for several months. And that has declined in the last several years.

So in response you then began to talk about how many times he plays 90 minutes,etc... bla bla bla.

He may not be good enough to play in every game or to play 90 minutes, but that's not what was initially discussed. What was brought up to you was his availability, not his ability.

In any case hopefully he recovers from this minor setback and continues to make progress in the right direction.

[Eeyore]

And you're the king of taking things out of context.

Particularly when it has been numerously repeated by the manager and by the player, that he needed time to adapt to what was asked of him in midfield. The same thing that happened to fabinho for instance, and with Keita [when he was fit].

But why provide context.

[that's not even taking into consideration whether or not substitutions were tactical changes,etc... but hey why provide that]. You're more likely to change a player in midfield than you are a CB.

The context is that he has never played more than 1600 minutes in a season for us or Arsenal and averages the number of minutes of the 15th or 16th player in a squad.

15/16  919 minutes for Arsenal.
16/17  1562 minutes for Arsenal
17/18  1484 minutes for Liverpool
18/19  cruciate injury
19/20  1492 minutes for Liverpool

To put that into context a player who plays 90 minutes every League games plays 3420 minutes.

[El Lobo]

What’s bullshit is random and arbitrary assessments of 75% and 25%.

Do you accept that’s some players are more injury prone than others?

And those that are are less reliable?

And is Ox in that category?

I honestly hope you’re just trolling with some of your comments, but I don’t think you are

‘He might have played 30 league games last season and I don’t know the stats....but I still think he’s injury prone and good for about half a season’. It’s not quite as straight to the point as your ‘TAA is shit at free kicks’ line but it’s in the same sort of category.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

The context is that he has never played more than 1600 minutes in a season for us or Arsenal and averages the number of minutes of the 15th or 16th player in a squad.

15/16  919 minutes for Arsenal.
16/17  1562 minutes for Arsenal
17/18  1484 minutes for Liverpool
18/19  cruciate injury
19/20  1492 minutes for Liverpool

To put that into context a player who plays 90 minutes every League games plays 3420 minutes.

And unsurprisingly again a lack of context.

I don't care about his days at Arsenal. I've already said that he was seriously ravaged with injuries there, and had numerous injuries each season. Going in and out of the side like that isn't helpful, particularly for a young player who is in completion with senior players for a regular place in the team.

I have no interest in that time period of his career when it comes to his availability here. 3 seasons here, 2 seasons he's played for 90 percent of the season.

You don't want to provide context to his first season here as it doesn't suit your argument. There is no statistical data that shows why a player was taken off,whether it be due to fitness or tactical reasons. But we do know for a fact, based on the manager and the player, that his introduction to the side needed time, given the complexity of his role in midfield compared to what he is used to in arsenal, given the complexity of the pressing that we do in midfield compared to that of Arsenal.

Now moving on to this past season, the context, is

1. he's coming back from a serious knee injury
2. he's competing for a spot in a side that has established consistent performers who don't miss a game usually since his last regular stint in the side.

Now if he has injuries all year long, and has fitness issues and is knackered then we can go back tot his discussion about his time here.

[El Lobo]

Didn’t Arsenal have a famously bad injury record when he was there?

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Didn’t Arsenal have a famously bad injury record when he was there?

They did.

[Eeyore]

Didn’t Arsenal have a famously bad injury record when he was there?

It must have been much easier for him to get on the pitch then. His best season for Arsenal was 16/17 when he managed 1562 minutes which placed him 11th in the Arsenal squad. That was 100 minutes more than a 20 year old Alex Iwobi.

That season Alexis Sanchez played 3223 minutes.

[duvva 💅]

The shouts on here have changed from Ox is injury prone and can’t be relied upon to be fit to the number of minutes he plays each game. It almost seems like now it’s proven that he pretty much been fit outside of the big injury for us that some need to find another way to have a go.
Keita rarely finishes games either, some players just don’t have the 90 in them at the intensity we play but we get the best out of them for the minutes they do play. It’s also arguable that since the injury his minutes have been managed to do this.

If you want argue he needs to make more impact when he plays then I don’t think even Ox would disagree with that at times, but the rest is bollocks.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

It must have been much easier for him to get on the pitch then. His best season for Arsenal was 16/17 when he managed 1562 minutes which placed him 11th in the Arsenal squad. That was 100 minutes more than a 20 year old Alex Iwobi.

That season Alexis Sanchez played 3223 minutes.

And it's perfectly fine to compare Sanchez to Ox 

Sanchez who was their key player, their main player, of course he played more. Sanchez a striker, compared to Ox, a player who was played in various positions without having a set position under Wenger.

In any case, if he wasn't playing, while he was healthy then that means he wasn't good enough for Wenger.

That's a separate debate and argument, and completely irrelevant to what was started on here.

[JC the Messiah]

Gerard starts and plays 90 minutes. You dont take him off.
Same for Viera, Keane, yaya, Scott Parker, Lampard, scholes etc.Ox generally starts for 66 minutes or gets brought on for 25/30 minutes. He’s just not a starter or fit enough to be. Can’t believe it isn’t straightforwardly accepted. Any neutral forum it would be. I accept this isn’t a neutral forum though!

Gerrard (spell his bloody name correctly FFS, he was at the club for long enough) was "injury prone" as well. Your point?

[El Lobo]

It must have been much easier for him to get on the pitch then. His best season for Arsenal was 16/17 when he managed 1562 minutes which placed him 11th in the Arsenal squad. That was 100 minutes more than a 20 year old Alex Iwobi.

That season Alexis Sanchez played 3223 minutes.

Bless, have you found whoscored tonight Al

If you’re that arsed to look it up, there’s a lot of articles about Wengers fitness ‘techniques’ and how his coaching was particularly hard on youngsters (which is why they had a plethora of constant injuries to the likes Wilshere, Ramsay, Walcott, Ox, Diaby, RVP). I’m sure even you can see there isn’t much logic in ‘Arsenals training seems to be causing injuries to their players...it’s strange then that one of their players isn’t playing much’.

[wampa1]

19/20  1492 minutes for Liverpool

To put that into context a player who plays 90 minutes every League games plays 3420 minutes.

Playing nearly half the games of a season isn't bad for a squad player.

[Reeves]

I honestly hope you’re just trolling with some of your comments, but I don’t think you are

‘He might have played 30 league games last season and I don’t know the stats....but I still think he’s injury prone and good for about half a season’. It’s not quite as straight to the point as your ‘TAA is shit at free kicks’ line but it’s in the same sort of category.

It’s really not, but as you’re infatuated with my opinions I can see why you’d bend it. If a player played eg 1 minute every game all season, whilst he played 38 games it’s not the same as a player who played 38x90 minutes. The fact is Ox can’t get in our first x1 and can’t reliably stay fit for playing 90 minutes all season or 90 minutes consistently at all or in fact consistently over a season for say a half. He’s injury prone. It’s unfortunate but anyone other than the most biased red will recognize that.

[Eeyore]

The shouts on here have changed from Ox is injury prone and can’t be relied upon to be fit to the number of minutes he plays each game. It almost seems like now it’s proven that he pretty much been fit outside of the big injury for us that some need to find another way to have a go.
Keita rarely finishes games either, some players just don’t have the 90 in them at the intensity we play but we get the best out of them for the minutes they do play. It’s also arguable that since the injury his minutes have been managed to do this.

If you want argue he needs to make more impact when he plays then I don’t think even Ox would disagree with that at times, but the rest is bollocks.

The way to show that you are not injury prone and durable is to play the full game week in week out. You only have three subs so if you include injuries 80% of your outfield players need to play the 90 minutes. Ox and Keita are nowhere that level.

That is why they are miles behind the likes of Gini, Hendo and Fabinho.