Author Topic: Armistice Day  (Read 5732 times)

Offline RedBootsTommySmith

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Armistice Day
« on: November 10, 2018, 10:06:08 pm »
Aftermath - Poem by Siegfried Sassoon

Have you forgotten yet?...
For the world's events have rumbled on since those gagged days,
Like traffic checked while at the crossing of city-ways:
And the haunted gap in your mind has filled with thoughts that flow
Like clouds in the lit heaven of life; and you're a man reprieved to go,
Taking your peaceful share of Time, with joy to spare.
But the past is just the same--and War's a bloody game...
Have you forgotten yet?...
Look down, and swear by the slain of the War that you'll never forget.

Do you remember the dark months you held the sector at Mametz--
The nights you watched and wired and dug and piled sandbags on parapets?
Do you remember the rats; and the stench
Of corpses rotting in front of the front-line trench--
And dawn coming, dirty-white, and chill with a hopeless rain?
Do you ever stop and ask, 'Is it all going to happen again?'

Do you remember that hour of din before the attack--
And the anger, the blind compassion that seized and shook you then
As you peered at the doomed and haggard faces of your men?
Do you remember the stretcher-cases lurching back
With dying eyes and lolling heads--those ashen-grey
Masks of the lads who once were keen and kind and gay?

Have you forgotten yet?...
Look up, and swear by the green of the spring that you'll never forget.

Victorious and glorious....

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2018, 10:16:49 pm »
RIP to all of the brave souls from that terrible war. :'(
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2018, 10:34:26 pm »
I was the spear in Balin’s hand
that made waste King Pellam’s land . . .
With my long pilum
I beat the crow
from that heavy bough . . .
I heard there, sighing for the Feet so shod.
I saw cock-robin gain
his rosy breast.
I heard Him cry:
                  Apples ben ripe in my gardayne
I saw Him die.
I was in Michael’s trench when bright Lucifer bulged his primal salient out.
That caused it,
that upset the joy-cart,
and three parts waste.
You ought to ask: Why,
what is this,
what's the meaning of this.
Because you don't ask,
although the spear-shaft
drips,
there's neither steading — not a roof-tree.

- David Jones (Royal Welch Fusiliers, 1915-1918), In Parenthesis, 1937
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Offline kavah

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2018, 10:55:03 pm »
From the Documentaries thread. Trada put this up, on tomorrow

Looks good a limited release in the Cinema and being shown on the BBC on November 11th. And they are going to give a free copy to every secondary school in the UK.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/EHYRfukHToc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/EHYRfukHToc</a>

Offline 12C

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2018, 11:14:09 pm »
Whenever the politicians eulogise the common soldier, this poem always comes to mind. I know Kipling is out of favour because of his imperialism etc.  But his comment on the way the ordinary soldier is regarded by society is as relevant now as in 1890.

Those Tommy’s volunteered when the band began to play, to fight in Iraq and Afghan a hundred years ago.


What’s changed
 :-\

Tommy
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
    O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
    But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
    The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
    O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.
 
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
    For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
    But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
    The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
    O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.
 
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
    Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
    But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
    The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
    O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.
 
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
    While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
    But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
    There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
    O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.
 
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
    For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
    But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
    An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
    An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
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Offline RedBootsTommySmith

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2018, 12:00:22 am »

Why, what is this, what's the meaning of this?


I wasn’t familiar with this poem before. After studying further, I think Dai Greatcoat is the inspiration for Donovan’s ‘Universal Soldier’.?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 01:08:01 am by RedBootsTommySmith »
Victorious and glorious....

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2018, 12:03:31 am »

That one is absolutely superb yet so grim in its eloquent yet disguised and removed suggestion of foul things, the unspoken horrors and senseless butchery witnessed, the bodies ripped apart.

I remember studying it for Eng Lit back in the 4th form and it made quite an impression.
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Offline RedBootsTommySmith

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2018, 12:14:28 am »
From the Pathe News archives; you may need to join the group 'Merseyside on Film' to view. The Liverpool Pals.

https://www.facebook.com/MerseysideOnFilm/videos/570799716694915/UzpfSTU3MzIxODIwMzoxMDE1NTY2OTcxMDM1ODIwNA/
Victorious and glorious....

Offline Zeb

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2018, 12:14:58 am »
That one is absolutely superb yet so grim in its eloquent yet disguised and removed suggestion of foul things, the unspoken horrors and senseless butchery witnessed, the bodies ripped apart.

I remember studying it for Eng Lit back in the 4th form and it made quite an impression.

I only came across it at university and it's never left me. Like you say Gulleysucker, the dreamlike sequences where myth and the Somme blend are so savage beneath the Arthurian graces Jones gives them.

Michael Sheen did a lovely reading of the full 'Dai Greatcoat' soliloquy to mark 100 years after Mametz Wood, which is where In Parenthesis leads up to for those who don't know:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/s_u98ZLptv8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/s_u98ZLptv8</a>
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2018, 12:16:48 am »
That one is absolutely superb yet so grim in its eloquent yet disguised and removed suggestion of foul things, the unspoken horrors and senseless butchery witnessed, the bodies ripped apart.

I remember studying it for Eng Lit back in the 4th form and it made quite an impression.

Likewise this is the poem from 3rd form about WWI that I remember most.

Dulce et Decorum Est - BY WILFRED OWEN

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2018, 12:45:21 am »
Likewise this is the poem from 3rd form about WWI that I remember most.

Dulce et Decorum Est - BY WILFRED OWEN

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Me too. He died 100 years ago, to the day, of course.

When I was young the First World War seemed like ancient history. Now, decades later, it seems like yesterday. Truly, that war changed British society like no other single event.

RIP to Owen, and all the others.
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2018, 01:21:44 am »
Is right .

My Grandad was a Lancashire Fusilier and me Da is 3 Para as you all know .  One of my Great Uncles was stuck in the battle for Caen and came unstuck in Holland ( I can't think of his Regiment but something to do with tanks ) . Me Nan use to go and visit his grave every now and then.

We think we've got it hard . Just for one second imagine what these went through. What every Soldier has gone through when there getting bombed and shelled for no gain.

Lest We Forget .

He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

The heart knows the way. Run in that direction

- Rumi

You are held . You are loved . You are seen  - Some wise fella .

Offline kesey

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2018, 01:35:28 am »
He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

The heart knows the way. Run in that direction

- Rumi

You are held . You are loved . You are seen  - Some wise fella .

Offline reddebs

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2018, 09:19:27 am »
I'm not aware of any of my family being involved in either world wars but my niece is ex Navy who served in Iraq, her husband is a serving Submariner and will be on parade today and my Great Niece is on parade in Liverpool today with the Air Cadets.

So many dead, so many still dying in conflicts around the world... may they all RIP.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.


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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2018, 09:42:05 am »
Likewise this is the poem from 3rd form about WWI that I remember most.

Dulce et Decorum Est - BY WILFRED OWEN

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

There is a museum in Birkenhead on Wilfred as he spent part of his young life there, visited it the other week. His poems really bring home the utter depravity of war at its worst and the first World War in particular. They said that was the war to end all wars as well.  :-\

RIP to all those who fought, died and are still suffering.
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2018, 10:00:46 am »
That one is absolutely superb yet so grim in its eloquent yet disguised and removed suggestion of foul things, the unspoken horrors and senseless butchery witnessed, the bodies ripped apart.

I remember studying it for Eng Lit back in the 4th form and it made quite an impression.

Snap. English Lit with Ray Thomas. Great teacher.

Offline gjr1

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2018, 10:04:56 am »


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them

Lest we forget
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2018, 10:05:08 am »
When my mum was alive she always spoke about wanting to trace a grave belonging to my grandad's brother. We finally made the trip to Belguim and found his name on a memorial near Ypres, there were so many memorials a lot with no indivudual names at all. But the one thing that haunts me to this day was seeing a grave for a fourteen year old boy who died in the mud, horrific.  :(
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2018, 11:23:58 am »
Dad of my granddad was forced into the military and had to defend on the back lines. He left home in early 1917 and came back in mid 1920. And in his memoir, he had lots of things to say. Needless to say, his English was way too complex to my meagre understanding and most of his stories were shrouded in bloodshed and the mystery of not knowing whether or not his comrades were alive. Bought a tear or two to the eyes of my granny knowing that her Dad in Law fought the war not sure of his return other than the occasional letter and seasons greetings.

This is one of the days that we don't "officially" celebrate at home. But we have a family reunion occasionally to mark this occasion.

Lest we forget.

Offline soxfan

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2018, 03:33:45 pm »
94 year old WW2 vet still agonizes over possibly killing a young girl caught in crossfire. :(

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/world-war-ii-veteran-clarence-smoyer-memories-of-a-shot-fired-spearhead/

War is hell.
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Offline RedBootsTommySmith

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2018, 04:38:44 pm »
Last minutes of WWI on audio. Artillery fire, gunfire and then the birds sing. Remarkable.

https://www.facebook.com/MerseysideOnFilm/videos/295093241344509/

« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 04:46:07 pm by RedBootsTommySmith »
Victorious and glorious....

Offline soxfan

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2018, 06:09:50 pm »
Last minutes of WWI on audio. Artillery fire, gunfire and then the birds sing. Remarkable.

https://www.facebook.com/MerseysideOnFilm/videos/295093241344509/
That's incredible!
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2018, 07:30:18 pm »
Last minutes of WWI on audio. Artillery fire, gunfire and then the birds sing. Remarkable.

https://www.facebook.com/MerseysideOnFilm/videos/295093241344509/



Wow, thanks for sharing that.
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2018, 10:01:18 pm »
Last minutes of WWI on audio. Artillery fire, gunfire and then the birds sing. Remarkable.

https://www.facebook.com/MerseysideOnFilm/videos/295093241344509/



Chilling. Particularly notable that the last person to die in the war did so at 10:59

Offline Trada

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2018, 10:14:19 pm »
They shall not grow old on BBC2 truly stunning a must watch.

They moment the footage changes from old Black and White to full colour is stunning and really takes you there amazing the difference it makes.
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2018, 10:18:57 pm »
They shall not grow old on BBC2 truly stunning a must watch.

They moment the footage changes from old Black and White to full colour is stunning and really takes you there amazing the difference it makes.
It’s utterly incredible.

Thye look so young.. so .. normal...

It’s seldom that things on TV take your breath away but this really does..
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2018, 10:36:13 pm »
Agree with you both. And some horrific images which we’ve normally been shielded from. RIP

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2018, 11:32:32 pm »
A sobering little snippet within the first ten minutes was that bit that just a few months after recruitment, the average volunteer had gained a stone in weight.

And this was despite all the drill and exercise. I suppose it was a reflection on the poor diets of so many of them likely due to poverty in that so called golden Edwardian age.

But it was a fantastic film, a little jumbled in chronology in parts (tanks and the build up to the Somme?), but the colour sequences were just superb, especially that initial transition sequence. And that scene of the muzzle blast from the artillery firing blowing the tiles off on the roof in front of the guns, just an amazing sequence.

I'd seen many of the clips shown before as a child or teenager back in the 60's on TV before such stuff became regarded as unsuitable for public or mainstream viewing by whoever, but nevertheless that speed correction and colourisation was still breathtaking.

And so many were obviously so incredibly young.
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2018, 11:44:53 pm »
The footage of soldiers looking straight into the camera then it flashes to someone who looks like them dead on the battlefield was a master stoke and heartbreaking at the same time.
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2018, 11:45:25 pm »
I had my first trip to church for years this morning, where they played us a short pathé film from a convalescence home to illustrate the mental anguish of returnees - their petrified limbs being forcibly straightened out, tics being treated by hypnosis, crazy gaits being subdued by whatever means.  Then two years later they’ve managed to return to the community to weave baskets or whatever.  I was in absolute floods watching those poor guys, and that was a good news story.  I’ve recorded They Shall Not Grow Old film but I don’t think I can face it tonight.

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2018, 11:58:55 pm »
Brilliant documentary. Colour brought all those lads to life, saw them as the kids they were. their personalities shone through,  same with the Germans, many of them just kids.
Made me angry at times, 2 horrible woman stopping a 16yr old boy and sticking a white feather up his nose after he's told them he's to young to sign up as he's only 16. all the men coming home to find signs outside factories saying, No ex serviceman need apply. 1 Lads dad trying to correct him on facts on what it was like for soldiers. the public didn't have a clue and that makes it even more awful.they didn't get much sympathy or understanding when they got home.
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2018, 12:01:51 am »
My grandfather fought in WW1 with ethe CEF, the Canadian Expeditionary Force. He never told my father anything about it. He told him, "You would never believe it anyway".

They didn't call it PTSD at that time, but I can only imagine what he and others faced, witnessed and survived.


He was right. I can't imagine it really.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 12:03:42 am by Giono »
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2018, 12:34:10 am »
My grandfather fought in WW1 with ethe CEF, the Canadian Expeditionary Force. He never told my father anything about it. He told him, "You would never believe it anyway".

They didn't call it PTSD at that time, but I can only imagine what he and others faced, witnessed and survived.


He was right. I can't imagine it really.
There was 1 poor lad walking along with his right hand shaking uncontrollably, thought the same thing as you, PTSD but nobody wouldn't have understood at the time.
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2018, 07:34:01 am »
I wasn’t familiar with this poem before. After studying further, I think Dai Greatcoat is the inspiration for Donovan’s ‘Universal Soldier’.?

Had to look up Donovan's 'Universal Soldier'. ;D Yeah, Dai's an archetype - humans at war across the ages. Thing with Dai Greatcoat is that he's not really anti-war. His message is more that this is something we need to reflect on why we're doing it, and to what end, before we take action. Make peace, not expeditionary war. Although history suggests we're not likely to learn and so the cycle perpetuates.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 07:35:51 am by Zeb »
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2018, 08:28:08 am »
There was 1 poor lad walking along with his right hand shaking uncontrollably, thought the same thing as you, PTSD but nobody wouldn't have understood at the time.

It was called shellshock back then.

On another note I learned yesterday that "cenotaph" is Greek for empty tomb. That's evocative!

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2018, 08:43:34 am »
From another thread (with the Corbyn bollocks removed).

Remembrance Sunday isn't about the Establishment. It's about the memory of those who died. You may disagree with war and the reasons for war but that has nothing to do with the young men who died.

Completely by coincidence I went round to see my parents today and my Dad who is now 90, had been digging out stuff that belonged to my Grandfather. It included and old typewritten 'digest of services' that listed where he was throughout the 14-18 War. He was with N Battery, Royal Horse Artillery and was in action throughout. He fought at Ypres, the Somme, Neuve Chapelle, Cambrai, Hailles and elsewhere. Between July 1st and July 14th he was in action on the Somme at Buire Sur L'Ancre and was in action near Bronfau Farm and Longueval. This is Longueval Main Street after it was captured on the 14th July 1916 in the Battle of the Somme.



Although he survived the war, I've seen the casualty book he kept with the list of the dead, the wounded and the gassed.

In 1920, N Battery carried the body of the Unknown Soldier to his burial in Westminster Abbey on a 13-pounder gun that had been used in action as had the horses and the men. You can see the coffin behind the tree in the photo with the team of horses to the right. On it's way to Westminster Abbey it stopped at the Cenotaph in Whitehall.

Due to public demand, the Cenotaph, which had originally been built in wood and plaster had been rebuilt in white Portland stone. Cenotaph means 'empty tomb' and represents those who died elsewhere. It's not a monument to kings, or politicians. It's a monument to the hundreds of thousands of ordinary soldiers who died in the First World War and who have died in the wars since.



The Cenotaph was designed by Edwyn Lutyens who also designed the Thiepval monument that remembers the dead on the Somme who have no known graves.

Maybe some of us have become cynical. Maybe some of us are confusing anger at war itself and the politicians and leaders that take us into war with the sacrifice, justified or otherwise, of those who die and suffer injury. Maybe we're too busy playing Red Dead Redemption to pick up a book and read the war poets and understand the horror that they went through.

Remembrance Sunday isn't a celebration of war. It's about remembering the dead...

Dulce et Decorum Est

By Wilfred Owen

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.



[/quote]
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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2018, 09:36:29 am »
One of the best films I have ever seen about WW1 is a French film called Life and Nothing But. It stars Phillipe Noiret as a French officer in charge of locating and identifying the dead after the war. He rebels when he is asked to select some remains to be declared 'the unknown soldier' as he wants to account for every soldier and not give up on anyone.


The film ends with him writing to a friend that the allies marched in a victory parade for x hours through the arc de triiomphe in one day, but that according to his calculations the dead would need x months, x days, x hours in order to perform the same parade.


I've cycled accross France twice. I was always stunned by the monuments in each villige to the WW1 dead. I couldn't believe that that many people once possibly lived in the village and that so many of them had aftually died so young. It is unimaginable. As if every town had at least one Ryan family from Saving Private Ryan.

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2018, 09:46:05 am »
interesting reading this,
I visited  Ypres last year and did the war graves etc with 3 colleagues two of which were retiring and it was a sort of last hurrah.
Northern Ireland as you all know is a divisive place and I come from a nationalist background (but my mates were all unionists as such )so I wouldn't wear a poppy etc but never any issues with it from my mates perspective..
what was so sad was the sheer volume of graves , but also the fact that so many irish( Ulsterman and Irishmen died together in battles, which seems to have been forgotten for so long)
my guide was a decent man no aires or graces( a Geordie) who had been in the army as had his father, grandfather and his son who had seen service in Iraq and Afghanistan. When chatting to him over coffee  his words were that it was expected in his family to join up, and he expected it to continue as it was their duty to serve their nation.

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2018, 12:26:04 pm »
I've cycled accross France twice. I was always stunned by the monuments in each villige to the WW1 dead. I couldn't believe that that many people once possibly lived in the village and that so many of them had aftually died so young. It is unimaginable. As if every town had at least one Ryan family from Saving Private Ryan.
I know.  I get pretty angry whenever I hear that cheap gag about the French surrendering easily - there’s a reason France chose to try to avoid hell again in 1940.  It’d be a bit of a mood killer though, so I generally don’t say so.

That said, the village my family’s from put up a war memorial a few years ago.  It’s a tiny place, maybe about 250-300 people today but larger then I’d’ve thought, but there are about fifty names and addresses on there (there was a specific disaster that inflated the WWI toll, so a lot of them bear the same date).  Because the houses have mostly been in the same families since they were built, I can see relatives’ names whom I never knew existed.  You can’t think about it too much.

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Re: Armistice Day
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2018, 02:26:17 pm »


Was reading about this photo on Reddit. It's was not taken 4 years later and there is a number of reasons how you can tell. Won't go into details in this thread as it's not the thread for it. The second photo is a doctored version of the first.
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