Topic: United Ireland v United Kingdom

[Elmo!]

And people in here wonder why people want out of Europe. Ireland is a prime example of a country being dictated to by Europe - Greece likewise.
People in Britain  have had it too good with their foot in, foot out of Europe existence, and throw their toys out of the pram and scream how the people are just clueless racists when they don't like how the people voted. Reminds of the people who come to the games these days just to moan, with their sense of entitlement. 
Come over here and live for a while and you will see just why people might want out. We voted not to be part of it but hey ho, that wasnt good enough so we voted until Europe got the vote it wanted, and now look at us. My children's grandchildren will be still paying for the banks flook ups.

Indeed, look at you with your 88% support for remaining in the EU despite being 'dictated' to.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0509/873610-eu_poll/

[gemofabird]

Indeed, look at you with your 88% support for remaining in the EU despite being 'dictated' to.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0509/873610-eu_poll/

"The nationwide poll was commissioned by European Movement Ireland, an NGO that works to develop links between Ireland and the EU."
Indeed, impartial as the RTE that report.

[Elmo!]

"The nationwide poll was commissioned by European Movement Ireland, an NGO that works to develop links between Ireland and the EU."
Indeed, impartial as the RTE that report.

Fine, here's a more recent one showing support at 79%.

http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-leave-eu-poll-february-2018-3836085-Feb2018/

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

If the Northerners and Southerners want it then it should happen,don't believe that it will myself,at least not without a serious amount of violence.

Why? Britain got out of EU without violence.

[thejbs]

Why? Britain got out of EU without violence.

He’s not talking about the eu. He’s talking about a United ireland.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

He’s not talking about the eu. He’s talking about a United ireland.

My point is that you don't have to be violent if you don't want to be part of some union.

[drmick]

And people in here wonder why people want out of Europe. Ireland is a prime example of a country being dictated to by Europe - Greece likewise.
People in Britain  have had it too good with their foot in, foot out of Europe existence, and throw their toys out of the pram and scream how the people are just clueless racists when they don't like how the people voted. Reminds of the people who come to the games these days just to moan, with their sense of entitlement. 
Come over here and live for a while and you will see just why people might want out. We voted not to be part of it but hey ho, that wasnt good enough so we voted until Europe got the vote it wanted, and now look at us. My children's grandchildren will be still paying for the banks flook ups.

I honestly do not know the answer- was Ireland's financial woes anything to do with the EU?

It seems to me that the credit crunch hit the entire world hard, but I wasn't aware that those countries hit hardest in the EU were blaming the EU for it.

[toomanysteves]

I'm from the Republic and have zero interest in a United Ireland.

That is your subconscious guilt of having abandoned your fellow countrymen to an appalling fate speaking.

[thejbs]

My point is that you don't have to be violent if you don't want to be part of some union.

Then, respectfully, you don't really have a point. Comparing the UK leaving the EU to the reunification of Ireland and not understanding why one might be more violent than the other is a bit ignorant.

[Macphisto80]

My point is that you don't have to be violent if you don't want to be part of some union.

What if you weren't allowed a vote on that? Worse yet, what if you had no representative in parliament to vote for?

[Yorkykopite]

That is your subconscious guilt of having abandoned your fellow countrymen to an appalling fate speaking.

Blimey! There you have it Corky. “Subconscious guilt”!

[gemofabird]

I honestly do not know the answer- was Ireland's financial woes anything to do with the EU?

It seems to me that the credit crunch hit the entire world hard, but I wasn't aware that those countries hit hardest in the EU were blaming the EU for it.

We're paying back the most out of all EU countries for the bank flook ups after pressure from ECB to keep interest rates low to encourage building etc during "The Celtic Tiger".
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/banking-crisis-bill-ireland-755464-Jan2013/

[conman]

I honestly do not know the answer- was Ireland's financial woes anything to do with the EU?

It seems to me that the credit crunch hit the entire world hard, but I wasn't aware that those countries hit hardest in the EU were blaming the EU for it.

Everything to do with the EU.

[bryanod]

We're paying back the most out of all EU countries for the bank flook ups after pressure from ECB to keep interest rates low to encourage building etc during "The Celtic Tiger".
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/banking-crisis-bill-ireland-755464-Jan2013/

Do people still go on about that? What's excuse for the current shitshow when it blows up again then since can't blame ECB rates as everyone moaning too high.

[Corkboy]

That is your subconscious guilt of having abandoned your fellow countrymen to an appalling fate speaking.

Ah, my beleaguered child of the troubles. There will always be a place at my table for you.

[Libertine]

Fine, here's a more recent one showing support at 79%.

http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-leave-eu-poll-february-2018-3836085-Feb2018/

Here's one showing 92%:



https://www.newstalk.com/Irish-people-in-favour-of-the-EU-goes-over-90-for-the-first-time

[drmick]

We're paying back the most out of all EU countries for the bank flook ups after pressure from ECB to keep interest rates low to encourage building etc during "The Celtic Tiger".
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/banking-crisis-bill-ireland-755464-Jan2013/

Yeah, but didn't apply to every EU country? Seems to me that most of the blame has to be put on institutions, banks, and politicians within Ireland.

[toomanysteves]

Ah, my beleaguered child of the troubles. There will always be a place at my table for you.

It is "the conflict" (pronounced canflickt please) not "the troubles".

[cowtownred]

Border poll (ie referendum on unity) looking increasingly likely after Brexit.

[BobOnATank]

Border poll (ie referendum on unity) looking increasingly likely after Brexit.

Not only that but (again!!!) on human rights issues, if you happen to be female, gay or of a non-white male persuasion (even nowadays if you are a taig) then you are much better off in a united Ireland. The death of the catholic church in Ireland (and prod and cath churches in the north) is a revelation that we should embrace.

Years ago I would have been culturally orientated to a united Ireland for the hell of it however the recent abortion referendum has focused and strengthened my view that it best for all people of the island.

[hide5seek]

Does the Republic want a united Ireland?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/49-of-republic-of-ireland-voters-back-united-ireland-36380704.html

As an Englishman it wouldn't bother me. Though i do think it would be better if any vote, both sides of the border, you need over 60% saying yes to a united Ireland. A small majority, like Brexit, seems to cause to much trouble.

[SlowRap]

Do NI people want a united Ireland? They'll be losing the NHS

[cowtownred]

Do NI people want a united Ireland? They'll be losing the NHS

Yes, I do.  And NHS? You'll be losing that soon too.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Yes, I do.  And NHS? You'll be losing that soon too.

Nice retort!

[thejbs]

Do NI people want a united Ireland? They'll be losing the NHS

That depends on a lot of things. Unlike blindly voting Yes or No in a referendum I'd like to see a plan for a United Ireland in place before making my decision. What terrifies me more than the result of any referendum would be the viciousness of the campaign. We've seen the animosity the EU, marriage equality and abortion refs stirred up.  I imagine this would be the mother of all cuntish campaigns.

As it stands, and for entirely selfish reasons, I'm reasonably happy with the status quo. That is liable to change depending on how Brexit pans out.

If there was a referendum tomorrow, I don't think it would carry.  I would much rather we pushed for referenda on marriage equality and abortion, for now.

[BobOnATank]

Yes, I do.  And NHS? You'll be losing that soon too.

Apparently its the devil:

9.2m people have had their lives terminated through abortion in Britain since 1967, that is actually more than the number of lives murdered in concentration camps

, politicians here, don't you know the NHS is part of that murder machine?

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-mla-wells-compares-abortion-to-holocaust-more-people-killed-through-terminations-since-1967-36982395.html

[thejbs]

Apparently its the devil: , politicians here, don't you know the NHS is part of that murder machine?

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-mla-wells-compares-abortion-to-holocaust-more-people-killed-through-terminations-since-1967-36982395.html

Was a good week for the Taliban in NI this week, with Well's holocaust comment and the Presbyterians voting in homophobia.

[BobOnATank]

Do NI people want a united Ireland? They'll be losing the NHS

Actually thinking about this again you make a fair point, well not a point you are actually wrong. Why should we lose anything, its within our control to decide the best approach for the new unified country, its not the north joining the south its the best of both creating a new country. Take your negative vibes back to the scottish debate, go scare them or laugh at the welsh.

[Corkboy]

Do NI people want a united Ireland? They'll be losing the NHS

Do you imagine we don't have a healthcare system in the Republic?

[filopastry]

That depends on a lot of things. Unlike blindly voting Yes or No in a referendum I'd like to see a plan for a United Ireland in place before making my decision. What terrifies me more than the result of any referendum would be the viciousness of the campaign. We've seen the animosity the EU, marriage equality and abortion refs stirred up.  I imagine this would be the mother of all cuntish campaigns.

As it stands, and for entirely selfish reasons, I'm reasonably happy with the status quo. That is liable to change depending on how Brexit pans out.

If there was a referendum tomorrow, I don't think it would carry.  I would much rather we pushed for referenda on marriage equality and abortion, for now.

Wouldn't disagree with too much of that as a former resident in NI, I think the Brexit vote (particularly if we do get a hard border) has accelerated the move to a United Ireland significantly though, I wouldn't have said it was something we would see in my lifetime previously, quite likely to happen in the next 20-30 years now.

Well played the DUP, your usual anti-immigrant bullshit has encouraged you to campaign for an event which will likely cause the breakup of the union which you value above everything else, I just hope all the current senior DUPers are still around to see it happen

[SlowRap]

Actually thinking about this again you make a fair point, well not a point you are actually wrong. Why should we lose anything, its within our control to decide the best approach for the new unified country, its not the north joining the south its the best of both creating a new country. Take your negative vibes back to the scottish debate, go scare them or laugh at the welsh.

Well this question only came about from me directly talking to people from NI, there's loads in Liverpool - one of them mentioned not wanting to lose the NHS and I thought that's a fair point. 

Do you imagine we don't have a healthcare system in the Republic?

I'll admit to not knowing a great deal about it,

A person may be required to pay a subsidised fee for certain health care received; this depends on income, age, illness or disability. All maternity services and child care up to the age of six months are provided free of charge. Emergency care is provided at a cost of €100 for a visit to the Accident and Emergency department.

...

cost of €100 for a visit to the Accident and Emergency department.

The Medical Card – which entitles holders to free hospital care, GP visits, dental services, optical services, aural services, prescription drugs and medical appliances- is available to those receiving welfare payments, low earners, and in certain other cases. The only medical conditions carrying automatic entitlement to a Card are having thalidomide syndrome, having a surgical symphysiotomy, and children with cancer.[4] Many political parties support extending the availability of the Medical Card to eventually cover everyone resident in Ireland – they currently cover 31.9% of the population. Those on slightly higher incomes are eligible for a 'GP Visit Card' which entitles the holder to free general practitioner visits. For persons over 70 years who are not entitled to a medical card or GP visit card they instead receive an annual cash grant of €400 up to a certain income.

People who are not entitled to a Medical Card (i.e. 68.1% of the population) must pay fees for certain health care services. There is a €100 A&E charge for those who attend an accident and emergency department without a referral letter from a family doctor (a visit to which usually costs €45–75, though some practices offer rates as low as €25-35 for over-65s and students[5]). Hospital charges (for inpatients) are a flat fee of €75 per day up to a maximum of €750 in any twelve-month period, irrespective of the actual care received.

I don't actually mind the idea of £100 charge to use A&E

[Danny Boys Dad]

I don't actually mind the idea of £100 charge to use A&E

are you the real Rees-Mogg?

[drmick]

Do you imagine we don't have a healthcare system in the Republic?

The NHS is completely free to UK residents. No charges anywhere. Got a tiny red mark from where you scratched yourself too hard- then away you go to A&E. If you are really, really rude you might even get a home visit from a GP if you ring up.

[Macphisto80]

The NHS is completely free to UK residents. No charges anywhere. Got a tiny red mark from where you scratched yourself too hard- then away you go to A&E. If you are really, really rude you might even get a home visit from a GP if you ring up.

Not entirely true, that, is it?

[MBL?]

Our health system is pretty shit to be honest. Anybody who can't afford for the most part will have a medical card (free health care).

My ma's side are from Derry. Growing up all of that side lived in Derry other than one auntie in London. In the last 20 years all bar two have moved to Donegal (one of the poorest countys in Ireland). To me that says a lot.

[naka]

Health service in the North like the rest of the Uk is struggling.
Seeing a DR takes 3 weeks, the growth of private appointments and private clinics is systematic of this.
For me Brexit is the game changer rather than European people  we are either British or Irish and this coupled with the ease of movement throughout the Island , and the fall from grace of the RC church allows people to be more comfortable with the idea Of unification .
It might take 20 years but it will happen, something I never thought I would say.
I think the unionist people if we are to move peacefully towards it must be guaranteed a block in the Dail to give them some comfort.

[KERRYKOP]

Health service in the North like the rest of the Uk is struggling.
Seeing a DR takes 3 weeks, the growth of private appointments and private clinics is systematic of this.
For me Brexit is the game changer rather than European people  we are either British or Irish and this coupled with the ease of movement throughout the Island , and the fall from grace of the RC church allows people to be more comfortable with the idea Of unification .
It might take 20 years but it will happen, something I never thought I would say.
I think the unionist people if we are to move peacefully towards it must be guaranteed a block in the Dail to give them some comfort.

There will have to be a number of concessions to unionists, I would put forward the PSNI remaining in the North and perhaps even this new state joining the Commonwealth so there will still be that connection with British identity for Unionists. Symbolism will be huge and it's to people on both sides to begin cooperating in a nation the vast majority are comfortable with.

The one thing Id put across to Unionists is that, we are joining them in this state as much as they are joining us

[kennedy81]

Health service in the North like the rest of the Uk is struggling.
Seeing a DR takes 3 weeks, the growth of private appointments and private clinics is systematic of this.
For me Brexit is the game changer rather than European people  we are either British or Irish and this coupled with the ease of movement throughout the Island , and the fall from grace of the RC church allows people to be more comfortable with the idea Of unification .
It might take 20 years but it will happen, something I never thought I would say.
I think the unionist people if we are to move peacefully towards it must be guaranteed a block in the Dail to give them some comfort.

I don't think giving anyone a block in the Dail would be helpful, and would only cause needless division. To the best of my knowledge, no religious or political group has ever been guaranteed any number of seats in the Dail. The interests of people from the former N.Ireland would be no different to the interests of any other citizens. They would have the same civil rights as anyone else.
Unionist parties would obviously be free to do as any other political party would do. Though I'm not sure what the point of a 'Unionist' party would be at that point, given they would no longer be in the Union.

Say for instance the DUP was still going. They would have to be looking to win the votes of people across the island, not just the Protestant community in the northern counties. Otherwise they'll never win enough votes to be relevant. Likewise, parties like Labour, Sinn Fein, FF, FG etc would be looking to win votes in that same community.

[kennedy81]

There will have to be a number of concessions to unionists, I would put forward the PSNI remaining in the North and perhaps even this new state joining the Commonwealth so there will still be that connection with British identity for Unionists. Symbolism will be huge and it's to people on both sides to begin cooperating in a nation the vast majority are comfortable with.

The one thing Id put across to Unionists is that, we are joining them in this state as much as they are joining us

Woah, steady on there.

I agree with the sentiment, but that wouldn't wash. I do think it would be important that this new state left all that republican baggage and symbolism behind. I think we should have done that long ago anyway.
I'm not saying we should forget our history, but we should be able to compartmentalize it and look forward as a modern European country made up of a diverse mix of communities, all working together for the greater good of everyone. Strong ties to the UK should always be a part of that, regardless of whether a UI ever emerges.

[jed the red]

There will have to be a number of concessions to unionists, I would put forward the PSNI remaining in the North and perhaps even this new state joining the Commonwealth so there will still be that connection with British identity for Unionists. Symbolism will be huge and it's to people on both sides to begin cooperating in a nation the vast majority are comfortable with.

The one thing Id put across to Unionists is that, we are joining them in this state as much as they are joining us

What are the benefits of that? Genuine question, would the new State gain from that or would it be more of a symbolic gesture for Unionists?