Author Topic: Why we should keep Lucas?  (Read 265117 times)

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2200 on: January 19, 2011, 09:04:09 pm »
How pretentious can you get?
Don't know mate, but you're well ahead in the race.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2201 on: January 19, 2011, 09:05:36 pm »
this is HOW i think of him, i watch him...and watch him. your making football to complicated.

but i guess if i dont follow your forumla then i know diddly squat about the sport
Yup

Offline Sangria

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2202 on: January 19, 2011, 09:10:46 pm »
Don't have an answer but he strikes me as being a model professional, and exceptionally fit. Can't really recall him having any lengthy spells injured. I suspect he is a lot tougher than he looks.

Some episodes which impressed me.

Fellaini's elbow. A combination of Fellaini's elbow going up and his studs coming down draws blood from Lucas's cheek. Lucas screams at the referee, pointing at his bloody face, enquiring why there is no free kick. Lucas lasts the 90 minutes, unlike Fellaini, who was marginalised by Lucas's attentions.

Flu. Lucas is out for a game, fevered with flu. He plays in the next game, less than a week later.

The iron balls incident. Johnson misses his clearance from a Benfica free kick, and the ball thuds into Lucas's groin with a loud thump, ricocheting yards away. As Liverpool counter (ending in a goal), Lucas hobbles up the pitch to avoid playing any Benfica players onside, rather than crumpling to the floor in agony like any mortal would.
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Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2203 on: January 19, 2011, 09:50:55 pm »
Interesting point that he never gets injured. Perhaps he doesn't commit himself as hard as other players do?

Just thought I'd throw that out there, since someone else has already suggested it means he is the 'model professional' and due to his 'exceptional fitness levels' (despite the fact that most injuries are caused by either the player trying too hard, or being hit by someone trying too hard).

Not suggesting any definite reasons, mind, just speculating on that, as it's true that he seems to very rarely be out injured.

Offline Garstonite

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2204 on: January 19, 2011, 09:51:55 pm »
Interesting point that he never gets injured. Perhaps he doesn't commit himself as hard as other players do?

Just thought I'd throw that out there, since someone else has already suggested it means he is the 'model professional' and due to his 'exceptional fitness levels' (despite the fact that most injuries are caused by either the player trying too hard, or being hit by someone trying too hard).

Not suggesting any definite reasons, mind, just speculating on that, as it's true that he seems to very rarely be out injured.

Do you ever watch us?

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2205 on: January 19, 2011, 09:54:00 pm »

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2206 on: January 19, 2011, 09:56:10 pm »
Interesting point that he never gets injured. Perhaps he doesn't commit himself as hard as other players do?
Could you just debate football without throwing in these ridiculous wind ups? Ta.

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2207 on: January 19, 2011, 09:57:54 pm »
Could you just debate football without throwing in these ridiculous wind ups? Ta.

It's all subjective. I've seen posters like rossiempire suggest in other threads that Dirk Kuyt doesn't try hard. That to me was ridiculous, but I accepted that it was his opinion and we all view the game differently. To you, Lucas may work his socks off, but that doesn't mean everyone views it in the same way.

Offline El Campeador

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2208 on: January 19, 2011, 10:06:15 pm »
Interesting point that he never gets injured. Perhaps he doesn't commit himself as hard as other players do?

You're Jermaine Pennant and I claim my five quid.

Offline Salty Dog

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2209 on: January 19, 2011, 10:14:29 pm »
Interesting point that he never gets injured. Perhaps he doesn't commit himself as hard as other players do?

Just thought I'd throw that out there, since someone else has already suggested it means he is the 'model professional' and due to his 'exceptional fitness levels' (despite the fact that most injuries are caused by either the player trying too hard, or being hit by someone trying too hard).

Not suggesting any definite reasons, mind, just speculating on that, as it's true that he seems to very rarely be out injured.

So, while not a definite suggestion, your speculation has now seen the lad's fitness level become a stick with which to beat him.

You just couldn't make this stuff up.  Let alone that it flies directly in the face of examples such as:


The iron balls incident. Johnson misses his clearance from a Benfica free kick, and the ball thuds into Lucas's groin with a loud thump, ricocheting yards away. As Liverpool counter (ending in a goal), Lucas hobbles up the pitch to avoid playing any Benfica players onside, rather than crumpling to the floor in agony like any mortal would.

But perhaps he doesn't commit himself as hard as some other players  ::)
It's like all punishments though, isn't it. You just have to close your eyes, grit your teeth and think of England. - Yorkykopite

Offline El Campeador

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2210 on: January 19, 2011, 10:14:35 pm »
Could you just debate football without throwing in these ridiculous wind ups? Ta.

It's his opinion Ben. He's got a right to it.

There's a guy down the street corner from me that's been shouting "JESUS IS COMING TOMORROW" for about 5 years now. He's got a right to his opinion too. Both opinions are on the same intellectual level.

A guy who thinks Lucas isn't pacey, has slow acceleration, and thinks the reason behind him not getting injured is that he pulls out the tackle is about the same as a guy who looks at the sky and swears it's green. Both have a right to a factually incorrect opinion.

This prize we have here claims he watches every game. He must only missed the last match where Lucas got decked so hard, my missus groaned in pain. The fact that Lucas didn't roll around and just limped on with it must mean he was acting. Someone genuinely tough like Mascherano would never roll around.

Easy innit?

Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2211 on: January 19, 2011, 10:18:29 pm »
Interesting point that he never gets injured. Perhaps he doesn't commit himself as hard as other players do?

Just thought I'd throw that out there, since someone else has already suggested it means he is the 'model professional' and due to his 'exceptional fitness levels' (despite the fact that most injuries are caused by either the player trying too hard, or being hit by someone trying too hard).

Not suggesting any definite reasons, mind, just speculating on that, as it's true that he seems to very rarely be out injured.

I think you are taking this devils advocate thing a bit far mate.
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Offline Salty Dog

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2212 on: January 19, 2011, 10:19:05 pm »
Someone genuinely tough like Mascherano would never roll around.

Easy innit?

Brilliant!  And for the record I did love Mascherano.  But Masch didn't half roll around in the most dramatic fashion possible when he got knocked to the pitch.
It's like all punishments though, isn't it. You just have to close your eyes, grit your teeth and think of England. - Yorkykopite

Offline rusty-la

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2213 on: January 19, 2011, 10:19:41 pm »
Can we change the name of this thread to something like 'he's staying, discuss' or whatever.

The title right now just invites the whoppers in to have a whinge.

Come on mods, your in the mood for change, I've just left the all new auld arse thread.

Offline El Campeador

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2214 on: January 19, 2011, 10:24:09 pm »
To you, Lucas may work his socks off, but that doesn't mean everyone views it in the same way.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/QfeOO7nl0Zc?fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/QfeOO7nl0Zc?fs=1</a>

Do you watch the match, we asked him.

Every game.

So fast forward to 2:30, and tell us - AGAIN - that you watch every match, that Lucas is slow, and that Lucas doesn't work his socks off.

You've got yourself into a pickle now, my pedigree chum. Either you didn't watch this match (when you say you've watched every match) or you watched the match and lied about Lucas's speed and commitment.

Which is it?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 10:27:53 pm by El Campeador »

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2215 on: January 19, 2011, 10:24:55 pm »
So, while not a definite suggestion, your speculation has now seen the lad's fitness level become a stick with which to beat him.

I'm not gonna claim definite reasons. I leave that to the arrogant nonsense-talkers. I can speculate on possible reasons.

Quote
You just couldn't make this stuff up.  Let alone that it flies directly in the face of examples such as:

But perhaps he doesn't commit himself as hard as some other players  ::)

Sorry to say, but one example of Lucas getting hit in the balls and hobbling off tells me nothing about his overall commitment levels. :D Try harder.

Offline El Campeador

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2216 on: January 19, 2011, 10:25:59 pm »
How good was that tackle eh?

BOOM.

Offline Silverbird

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2217 on: January 19, 2011, 10:28:47 pm »
A guy who thinks Lucas isn't pacey, has slow acceleration, and thinks the reason behind him not getting injured is that he pulls out the tackle is about the same as a guy who looks at the sky and swears it's green. Both have a right to a factually incorrect opinion.

I like Lucas, but I think he's not pacey. Please explain to me how that is a factually incorrect opinion. We can share different views on what Lucas brings to the team, but surely attributes like pace can be objectively ascertained? Unless you are suggesting that pace is relative, but nobody is comparing Lucas here to the marshmallow man. Lucas is not fast with the ball, and neither was Alonso, but Alonso had quicker feet than Lucas so pace was never a stick to beat Alonso.

There are some pretty bullsh*t opinions on this forum, ala that Spearing is a better player than the Brazilian international Lucas (regardless of whether he qualifies as a regular or not), or that Lucas is not sufficiently committed, but in the end, they are opinions to which everyone is entitled to. I think those are pretty dumb but there's no point trying to change these people's minds, and so I don't try.

But with that said, there are a lot of informed opinions as well, and though I may not necessarily agree with some of them, they offer view points that can be challenged, debated and discussed. So when I point out that Lucas doesn't get into good enough positions to pass more penetrative balls, a poster suggested that I watch again because Lucas often gets into goalscoring positions. I then point out that Lucas does, but isn't lethal enough. So on and so forth. That's the point of this forum. If everyone who has a different opinion is "factually incorrect" then you may as well not post on these forums. Just talk to yourself and find agreement.

I respect the posters who disagree but offer a well-informed and argued alternative opinion. On the other hand, your kind of response is singularly unhelpful and merely serves to polarise everyone into a pro-Lucas and anti-Lucas camp, or those who appreciate him and those who don't. Fortunately, the real world is not so black and white.

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2218 on: January 19, 2011, 10:29:57 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/QfeOO7nl0Zc?fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/QfeOO7nl0Zc?fs=1</a>

Do you watch the match, we asked him.

So fast forward to 2:30, and tell us - AGAIN - that you watch every match, that Lucas is slow, and that Lucas doesn't work his socks off.

You've got yourself into a pickle now, my pedigree chum. Either you didn't watch this match (when you say you've watched every match) or you watched the match and lied about Lucas's speed and commitment.

Which is it?

What's your point? That Lucas is pacier than Dossena?

Offline El Campeador

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2219 on: January 19, 2011, 10:32:42 pm »
I like Lucas, but I think he's not pacey. Please explain to me how that is a factually incorrect opinion.

Did you think he was slow in the video I just posted, where he covered 20 yards in a blink and laid on a perfect tackle?

Would you like more visual evidence?

Offline Stuart_Howard

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2220 on: January 19, 2011, 10:33:21 pm »
I think the best thing that Lucas offers is that he is improving all the time.  He has continually grown in confidence since Spurs at the start of last season which was the first game without Alonso.  He is physically stronger and rides contact better than he did.  More and more he is looking for the ball and offering himself.  Debate the faults by all means but I think he is getting better all the time and that has to be better than the rise and falls of other.  Dirk runs his bollocks off for the shirt but it is a shame to see his first touch at the moment.  It went to pot earlier and the season and that has been a backward step.  Any player who is learning and improving has got to be a good thing. 
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Offline El Campeador

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2221 on: January 19, 2011, 10:36:07 pm »
What's your point? That Lucas is pacier than Dossena?

I know you're fucking thick, but at least try to answer the questions I posed.

1. Did you watch that match?
2. If you did, do you remember Lucas covering beating an opponent over 20 yards when his opponent had a ten yard head start on him?
3. Do you remember that crunching tackle he laid on, and if you do, do you think it jives with your Nobel laureate theory of Lucas playing so many matches because he possibly shirks away from the tackle?

Offline SMD

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2222 on: January 19, 2011, 10:36:11 pm »
Interesting point that he never gets injured. Perhaps he doesn't commit himself as hard as other players do?

I wish Fernando Torres would stop throwing himself into crunching tackles so he'd get injured less.
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Offline Salty Dog

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2223 on: January 19, 2011, 10:40:23 pm »
I'm not gonna claim definite reasons. I leave that to the arrogant nonsense-talkers. I can speculate on possible reasons.

Sorry to say, but one example of Lucas getting hit in the balls and hobbling off tells me nothing about his overall commitment levels. :D Try harder.

But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that he didn't hobble off.  The play was still going on and he got himself up and got himself up the pitch so that the opposing players couldn't hang up our end of the pitch and be kept onside by a prone Lucas.

It must be a fun exercise, distorting the truth of the situation to suit your agenda against the lad.
It's like all punishments though, isn't it. You just have to close your eyes, grit your teeth and think of England. - Yorkykopite

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2224 on: January 19, 2011, 10:43:03 pm »
2. If you did, do you remember Lucas covering beating an opponent over 20 yards when his opponent had a ten yard head start on him?

Ugh.

You honestly don't understand about acceleration and momentum?

You don't need a degree in Advanced Physics to appreciate that, often, in professional football, a 10 yard head start is meaningless if he hasn't started running yet while someone behind him has. It's all about the time taken to accelerate yourself. Some players are slow at it, some are fast at it. Acceleration is arguably more important than pace in top flight football (see: Fernando Torres, who has both, but especially acceleration). Lucas doesn't have good acceleration, but he does have reasonable pace, which is why he caught that player - because he was already running at his top speed while the other player was only just starting. I said he isn't pacey, which is true. I also said he isn't slow, which is true.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2225 on: January 19, 2011, 10:44:37 pm »
Every game.

yeah but do you watch us or just watch Lucas?
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Offline Silverbird

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2226 on: January 19, 2011, 10:46:36 pm »
Did you think he was slow in the video I just posted, where he covered 20 yards in a blink and laid on a perfect tackle?

Would you like more visual evidence?

Actually, I would. And I am not trying to wind you up here, but I have seen him being overtaken often by opposing players. As I said, I am nowhere suggesting that Lucas is a tortoise. But he's not fast by any stretch of the imagination. Torres, Johnson, etc are fast. Kelly is probably above average. Carragher is slow. Lucas is at best average, and that qualifies as "not pacey". I think we should be specific with our words. I don't know if I have said Lucas is slow, and if I have, then I apologise. I think he's not quick enough when we are attacking. I think that's a fair point. I also think it's fair when people point out that Zidane was not fast. My response to that would be that Zidane had quick feet and wonderful technical ability so that compensated for his lack of pace. And so on and so forth.

I am just asking that you not be so quick to label anyone who points out his flaws as being anti-Lucas. I don't see how that is helpful to any discussion at all, unless your point is to ensure that there is no discussion. Yes, the video was nice to show Lucas isn't slow, but then, few of us were suggesting that he couldn't outrun Dosseana. What Lucas needs to be able to do is to outpace most opposing midfielders. And he can either do it the way Gerrard does, which is through a sudden burst, so that even when opponents anticipate the run they can't catch up, or the way Xavi, Alonso, Iniesta all do, which is they turn toward an unexpected direction, or make an unexpected run that creates space for themselves. Lucas rarely does either. I am not suggesting here that Lucas never can achieve either, but he can't at this moment, and like any true Liverpool fan, I hope he one day can do these things. So it's not helpful to paint us as being anti-Lucas or blind or incorrect when at the end of the day, we are just trying to have a meaningful discussion.

Offline Red_Isle_Chap

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2227 on: January 19, 2011, 10:49:33 pm »
I wish Fernando Torres would stop throwing himself into crunching tackles so he'd get injured less.
Well, it's true isn't it. It's just like that co-commentator said when we were losing to blackburn "I just wish a liverpool player would clatter someone" because, that's all football is mate. Give em a clattering, they'll shit themselves, you score. Simple as eh

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Offline El Campeador

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2228 on: January 19, 2011, 10:50:16 pm »
Ugh.

You honestly don't understand about acceleration and momentum?

You don't need a degree in Advanced Physics to appreciate that, often, in professional football, a 10 yard head start is meaningless if he hasn't started running yet while someone behind him has. It's all about the time taken to accelerate yourself. Some players are slow at it, some are fast at it. Acceleration is arguably more important than pace in top flight football (see: Fernando Torres, who has both, but especially acceleration). Lucas doesn't have good acceleration, but he does have reasonable pace, which is why he caught that player - because he was already running at his top speed while the other player was only just starting. I said he isn't pacey, which is true. I also said he isn't slow, which is true.

Ah, so he was lucky that he was already running when the other player wasn't. Great explanation.

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2229 on: January 19, 2011, 10:52:11 pm »
Interesting point that he never gets injured. Perhaps he doesn't commit himself as hard as other players do?

3. Do you remember that crunching tackle he laid on, and if you do, do you think it jives with your Nobel laureate theory of Lucas playing so many matches because he possibly shirks away from the tackle?

I wish Fernando Torres would stop throwing himself into crunching tackles so he'd get injured less.

Seems you have misunderstood what I was saying. I never once mentioned "crunching tackles". You've made that bit up yourself.

By 'committing oneself', I'm talking about everything. Often, it's a player stretching for the ball, or pushing his body beyond the limit in some other way, such as sprinting. Of course Torres doesn't go into crunching tackles - he's not a DM. Why assume I was just talking about tackling? Bizarre.

We see time and time again, a player injuring himself because he's lunged for a ball that he had no right to get to. That's a sign of commitment, and it's naive to believe that players only get injured because they have 'less than exceptional' fitness levels. It is often down to over-committing themself to the game - whether that be in tackling, sprinting, shooting, lunging.. It's also often down to being hit hard by an opposition player, which sometimes happens when you go in for balls which you have little chance of claiming.

Any one instance of being injured could be down to any one thing. But it's woefully naive to assume that it is a sign of Lucas being a model professional. Would love to hear Alan Shearer or Roy Keane's opinion on that, both 'model professionals' who got injured a lot, largely because they over-committed themselves.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 10:55:12 pm by Laergoth »

Offline Cadno

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2230 on: January 19, 2011, 10:53:59 pm »
I think its best people stop replying to Laergoth he is clearly on the wind up.  He is just taking the oppositeextreme view to try and get a rise out of us.   At no point has he actually shown a decent debate and has only used his right to an opinion to spout nonsense.  He has already said he only  comes on here for a laugh so why feed the troll?

If he had any decent footballing knowledge or debating ability we would have seen it by now
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 10:56:49 pm by Cadno »
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2231 on: January 19, 2011, 10:56:49 pm »
Seems you have misunderstood what I was saying. I never once mentioned "crunching tackles". You've made that bit up yourself.

By 'committing oneself', I'm talking about everything. Often, it's a player stretching for the ball, or pushing his body beyond the limit in some other way, such as sprinting. Of course Torres doesn't go into crunching tackles - he's not a DM. Why assume I was just talking about tackling? Bizarre.

We see time and time again, a player injuring himself because he's stretched for a ball that he had no right to get to. That's a sign of commitment, and it's naive to believe that players only get injured because they have 'less than exceptional' fitness levels. It is often down to over-committing themself to the game - whether that be in tackling, sprinting, shooting, lunging.. It's also often down to being hit hard by an opposition player, which sometimes happens when you go in for balls which you have little chance of claiming.

Any one instance of being injured could be down to any one thing. But it's woefully naive to assume that it is a sign of Lucas being a model professional. Would love to hear Alan Shearer or Roy Keane's opinion on that, both 'model professionals' who got injured a lot, largely because they over-committed themselves.

Round like a windmill in a circle like a wheel within a wheel never ending or beginning in a ever turning world, sorry but reading your posts always makes me think of this song, pretentious wow!
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2232 on: January 19, 2011, 10:57:52 pm »
You don't need a degree in Advanced Physics to appreciate that, often, in professional football, a 10 yard head start is meaningless if he hasn't started running yet while someone behind him has. It's all about the time taken to accelerate yourself. Some players are slow at it, some are fast at it. Acceleration is arguably more important than pace in top flight football (see: Fernando Torres, who has both, but especially acceleration). Lucas doesn't have good acceleration, but he does have reasonable pace, which is why he caught that player - because he was already running at his top speed while the other player was only just starting.

Hallelujah! There is a God (as Corkboy would say). 

It took you some time fella, but at last the penny has dropped. You're right. Lucas had reached top speed before the other bloke had started. The first five yards are in your head, as Bob Paisley said (He used to manage us).

There's speed and there's football speed. And like you say so eloquently here, Lucas Leiva has football speed.
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Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2233 on: January 19, 2011, 10:58:15 pm »
I think its best people stop replying to Laergoth he is clearly on the wind up.  He is just taking the oppositeextreme view to try and get a rise out of us.   At no point has he actually shown a decent debate and has only used biscuit right to an opinion to spout nonsense.  He hss already said he only  comes on here for a laugh so why feed the troll?

If he had any decent footballing knowledge or debating ability we would haves seen it by now

Cadno, every single post I've read by you has been an aggressive attack on someone..

Its pretty pathetic to come onto a internet forum to have a go at peoples opinion just for laughs.  Have you no friends you can go to the pub with for some shits and giggles?  224 posts and most of them on here is a sad really.  But then if this is how you bring a little joy into your like then who are we to argue  ::)

Your types of posts have no place here. At least the others can (sort of) accept my opinion and are trying to convert me to Lucas, whether by giving their opinion or by posting videos. I have no aggression towards them, besides occasionally finding their views bizarre to the point of ridicule.

However, you seem to have a problem. Whatever that problem is, please sort it out, and go away.

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2234 on: January 19, 2011, 11:00:49 pm »
Ah, so he was lucky that he was already running when the other player wasn't. Great explanation.

Spot on.

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2235 on: January 19, 2011, 11:04:32 pm »
Actually, I would. And I am not trying to wind you up here, but I have seen him being overtaken often by opposing players. As I said, I am nowhere suggesting that Lucas is a tortoise. But he's not fast by any stretch of the imagination. Torres, Johnson, etc are fast. Kelly is probably above average. Carragher is slow. Lucas is at best average, and that qualifies as "not pacey". I think we should be specific with our words. I don't know if I have said Lucas is slow, and if I have, then I apologise. I think he's not quick enough when we are attacking. I think that's a fair point. I also think it's fair when people point out that Zidane was not fast. My response to that would be that Zidane had quick feet and wonderful technical ability so that compensated for his lack of pace. And so on and so forth.

I am just asking that you not be so quick to label anyone who points out his flaws as being anti-Lucas. I don't see how that is helpful to any discussion at all, unless your point is to ensure that there is no discussion. Yes, the video was nice to show Lucas isn't slow, but then, few of us were suggesting that he couldn't outrun Dosseana. What Lucas needs to be able to do is to outpace most opposing midfielders. And he can either do it the way Gerrard does, which is through a sudden burst, so that even when opponents anticipate the run they can't catch up, or the way Xavi, Alonso, Iniesta all do, which is they turn toward an unexpected direction, or make an unexpected run that creates space for themselves. Lucas rarely does either. I am not suggesting here that Lucas never can achieve either, but he can't at this moment, and like any true Liverpool fan, I hope he one day can do these things. So it's not helpful to paint us as being anti-Lucas or blind or incorrect when at the end of the day, we are just trying to have a meaningful discussion.

Good post. You're by far the most reasonable poster in here, as you don't get drawn into the ridiculing people (which I am guilty of), and you are capable of stating your views coherently (which Julio, Cadno and a couple of others are totally incapable of).

Completely agree with everything said in this post.

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2236 on: January 19, 2011, 11:05:31 pm »
I take comfort in the fact that Lucas is appreciated by top managers.

That right there, ends this debate.

I'm done trying to explain lucas to people who don't have the capacity to understand it.

Time will tell about Lucas' potential and quality. He has already made massive strides and is continuously improving. In two years he will be the centerpiece of this midfield and the best part about it is Laergoth will have no fucking clue how it happened.
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2237 on: January 19, 2011, 11:10:17 pm »
Cadno, every single post I've read by you has been an aggressive attack on someone..

Your types of posts have no place here. At least the others can (sort of) accept my opinion and are trying to convert me to Lucas, whether by giving their opinion or by posting videos. I have no aggression towards them, besides occasionally finding their views bizarre to the point of ridicule.

However, you seem to have a problem. Whatever that problem is, please sort it out, and go away.
lol I rate your opinion of my posts as much as I rate your knowledge of the game of football.  With the way your opinion flip flops to keep yourself amused on this thread Im amazed most of the decent posters have theft patience with you. 

If you had even a little decent argument it would make it a decent debate but the best you have done so far is suggest that Lucas is not committed because he does not get injured.
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Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2238 on: January 19, 2011, 11:14:23 pm »
lol I rate your opinion of my posts as much as I rate your knowledge of the game of football.  With the way your opinion flip flops to keep yourself amused on this thread Im amazed most of the decent posters have theft patience with you.

My opinion have not 'flip-flopped' at all, but I wouldn't expect you to actually provide any evidence of this..

Quote
If you had even a little decent argument it would make it a decent debate but the best you have done so far is suggest that Lucas is not committed because he does not get injured.

Leave it to the people who can actually state what they think coherently, please. I don't mind debating with them, even if it gets a little heated. You offer no debate, no opinions - you just increase the bad feeling in this thread.

Offline tboz

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2239 on: January 19, 2011, 11:14:28 pm »
if poulsen goes and lucas is happy to be a squad player then we should keep him but a get a better option. otherwise sell for a good fee.