Author Topic: Why we should keep Lucas?  (Read 266533 times)

Offline new-red

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2280 on: January 20, 2011, 05:55:56 am »
:wave

Meireles can't defend like he can though he's a better passer and shooter, Lucas ironically would be great alongside Alonso and Aquilani.

He definitely is a better shooter but I don't see much difference in their passing besides Meireles being quicker with the ball at his feet.
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Offline SMD

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2281 on: January 20, 2011, 06:17:46 am »
He definitely is a better shooter but I don't see much difference in their passing besides Meireles being quicker with the ball at his feet.

:P
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Offline MassDriver

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2282 on: January 20, 2011, 06:32:42 am »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/QfeOO7nl0Zc?fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/QfeOO7nl0Zc?fs=1</a>

Do you watch the match, we asked him.

So fast forward to 2:30, and tell us - AGAIN - that you watch every match, that Lucas is slow, and that Lucas doesn't work his socks off.

You've got yourself into a pickle now, my pedigree chum. Either you didn't watch this match (when you say you've watched every match) or you watched the match and lied about Lucas's speed and commitment.

Which is it?

Off topic but did anyone see the beautiful through ball played by Poulsen that Ngog managed to miss horribly. These are the things you never see mentioned on RAWK. Why? Because Poulsen is a scapegoat.
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2283 on: January 20, 2011, 08:02:57 am »
:wave

Meireles can't defend like he can though he's a better passer and shooter, Lucas ironically would be great alongside Alonso and Aquilani.

I disagree. Meireles is not a better passer than Lucas. Not by a long-shot.
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Offline GIPPO77

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2284 on: January 20, 2011, 08:05:09 am »
Well I think Lucas has fought hard and done well to gain as much support from the fans as what he has done.
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2285 on: January 20, 2011, 09:33:13 am »
I disagree. Meireles is not a better passer than Lucas. Not by a long-shot.

Yea, I didn't want to be too adamant in my disagreement but I do think that Lucas has a better eye for a pass whereas Meireles relies more on his ability on the ball to get forward and find a pass. Raul is a good passer but he hasn't really shown any creativity in his passing.  I am not complaining because he is quite a attacking and clearly has a good shot on him so his presence in CM will be welcomed alongside lucas.
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Offline SMD

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2286 on: January 20, 2011, 09:37:43 am »
Bloody hell, I didn't say Lucas was a shit passer or anything, he's capable of some cracking balls but Meireles is better going forward but Lucas is better all round.
I'd have no issues with Lucas behind Nando but I wouldn't want to see Meireles playing where Lucas has.
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Offline new-red

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2287 on: January 20, 2011, 09:42:21 am »
Bloody hell, I didn't say Lucas was a shit passer or anything, he's capable of some cracking balls but Meireles is better going forward but Lucas is better all round.
I'd have no issues with Lucas behind Nando but I wouldn't want to see Meireles playing where Lucas has.

lol. I'm always in defense mode when I enter any lucas thread. After defending him endlessly for 3 years, its hard to control frustration
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Offline SMD

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2288 on: January 20, 2011, 09:43:54 am »
So have I! Right now he's our best central midfielder and I'm happy that he's progressing every year. He's not perfect though and just shouldn't fall into the trap of constant defending.

Like Hodgson.
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Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2289 on: January 20, 2011, 09:48:49 am »
Nobody else think hes the best overall central midfielder at the club?
I do, with the emphasis on 'overall'.  *Prepares for abuse*!

He came as an attacking mid, Rafa converted him to a defensive mid, he holds for Brazil.  I think Lucas now has a better all-round game than our other mids, even with his weaknesses, i.e scoring.  Gerrard is certainly better at attacking but lacks defensive/positioning discipline. Raul, whilst I accept he's still adapting to the PL, has poor pass completion stats, and has bottled some tackles, I do like him though as a player.  Poulsen, well! Spearing?  My opinion, not good enough.  Shelvey has potential, but has much to learn.

Yep Lucas is the best overall CM we have, and I'm hoping Kenny takes the positives of Lucas's game (pass and move) and turns it in to the style of play LFC play.
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2290 on: January 20, 2011, 09:50:10 am »
So have I! Right now he's our best central midfielder and I'm happy that he's progressing every year. He's not perfect though and just shouldn't fall into the trap of constant defending.

Like Hodgson.

I don't think that will be a problem. Playing for this club has molded him into a more positive passer. He is always looking forward first now and then keeping possession if there is not a good option ahead of him.

Also Kenny's appointment will see us play a far more fluid attacking game which will give lucas more opportunities to play in advanced positions. I look forward to seeing the midfield trio of raul-stevie-lucas restored.
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Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2291 on: January 20, 2011, 10:00:24 am »
Just as an aside.  My mate went ot the match on Sunday, she's an LFC fan, but doesn't have strong views on players etc.  Anyways, I asked her how Lucas had played, and her opinion was that he was OK, but 'didn't do that much'!  She didn't slag him off, just barely noticed his contribution.  I think this shows what the average fan thinks of Lucas.  So much of what he does is understated, simple and effective that it gets overlooked.

He doesn't do Hollywood sliding tackles like Masch,
He doesn't do Hollywood passes like Gerrard
He doesn't score goals like Torres
He doesn't shout at his team mates like Carra
He doesn't have crap touch like Kuyt  :D


The conclusion is then reached that he doesn't do much!!!  When the opposite is so much closer to the truth.
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Offline SMD

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2292 on: January 20, 2011, 10:08:10 am »
I picked him over Kelly as my man of the match :wave

Your mate is funny in the head.
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Offline GIPPO77

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2293 on: January 20, 2011, 10:17:12 am »
Hes not gonna be a midfield scoring machine, though he does a steady job.
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Offline SMD

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2294 on: January 20, 2011, 10:19:53 am »
Hes not gonna be a midfield scoring machine, though he does a steady job.

Damning with faint praise. One of our biggest problems in the past 20 years has been a lack of creativity. Either we have proper flair players or grafters and the team looks a bit disjointed. Lucas gets the ball and redistributes it effectively and efficiently. He lets other players get on with their jobs and it gives the team a base to work from. Forget Alonso, he reminds me of a young Didi Hamann and he's a player we've sorely missed. If we got Aquilani back I'd like to see how he works with Meireles and Lucas, though the former would be more in competition for a place than alongside him week in week out.
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Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2295 on: January 20, 2011, 10:58:15 am »
Interesting article here, sorry if it's already been posted.
 Most interesting is the question at the bottom

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2011/01/can_ganso_make_his_mark.html

Q) As a Liverpool fan, I have been taken aback at the evolution of Lucas in our midfield over the last 18 months, leading me to believe he was our best player in a dismal previous season and is leading the way again this term.

With Manchester United's Anderson appearing to be starting a similar renaissance, do you think there is a possibility of the two linking up in Brazil's midfield in the future? Both have excellent distribution skills when at their best and, in the English and European games especially, have dramatically reduced the number of fouls they have given away and seem to be revelling in the roles they are given.
Tom Roberts

A) I wrote about Lucas in a recent answer - he is booked in as Brazil's holding midfielder, which represents a change of role from the one he fulfilled when he previously worked with national team coach Mano Menezes at Gremio.

Anderson has gone through an even more radical transformation since he and Menezes were together at Gremio, when he was a teenage flyer, an attacking midfielder with minimal defensive responsibilities. Menezes knows him, and knows that he has changed - and it could be that the change makes him interesting to a coach who is trying to ensure that Brazil play more football through the midfield.

With Ganso back, I imagine Menezes going for a 4-2-3-1 - Pato up front, Ganso in between Robinho and Neymar, and a midfield pairing currently of Lucas and Ramires. A consistently on form Anderson could be a rival for Ramires - it would need a slight adjustment because the Chelsea man favours the right and Anderson is left-footed. But it is feasible, so it is up to Anderson to make up for lost time and push his claim.
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Offline smig

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2296 on: January 20, 2011, 01:40:49 pm »
Off topic but did anyone see the beautiful through ball played by Poulsen that Ngog managed to miss horribly. These are the things you never see mentioned on RAWK. Why? Because Poulsen is a scapegoat.
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Offline Supernatural

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2297 on: January 20, 2011, 01:59:48 pm »
I disagree. Meireles is not a better passer than Lucas. Not by a long-shot.

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Offline Vidocq

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2298 on: January 20, 2011, 03:07:21 pm »
So have I! Right now he's our best central midfielder and I'm happy that he's progressing every year. He's not perfect though and just shouldn't fall into the trap of constant defending.

Like Hodgson.

he's not.... what about Meireles and Stevie
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2299 on: January 20, 2011, 03:30:14 pm »
he's not.... what about Meireles and Stevie

I don't think you did answer that question, when you said Lucas isn't the kind of midfielder Dalglish looks for. On what basis did you make that assumption? Have you seen any of the teams Dalglish has managed?
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Offline Vidocq

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2300 on: January 20, 2011, 03:31:27 pm »
I don't think you did answer that question, when you said Lucas isn't the kind of midfielder Dalglish looks for. On what basis did you make that assumption? Have you seen any of the teams Dalglish has managed?

im not 50years old but i did...
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2301 on: January 20, 2011, 03:33:49 pm »
im not 50years old but i did...

Which ones? While you're at it, could you do a break down of the CMs used in the 87-88 season, usually seen as the peak of the Dalglish era?
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Offline koolkamal

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2302 on: January 20, 2011, 05:05:29 pm »
:wave

Meireles can't defend like he can though he's a better passer and shooter, Lucas ironically would be great alongside Alonso and Aquilani.

One thing about Meireles I haven't been impressed with is his passing. Gives the ball away too much. He's more dynamic than Lucas. Not sure if it's because he's still getting use to the league but it's something he needs to improve drastically. Especially now if our game is based on passing and movement, giving the ball away cheaply puts us under pressure too quickly.

Agree with you about Lucas/Aquilani or Lucas/Alonso - holy damn that would've have been a great partnership. Was hoping this season for a Gerrard, Lucas, Aquilani trio, especially the way we're playing now.
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Offline G1 Jockey 4(betfair)

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2303 on: January 20, 2011, 05:09:16 pm »
lucas /alonso....unballanced

aquilani = in the hole player in this league.


lucas mereles will get better.....think mereles has been suffereing from his last knock.

defence is a major problem at the moment yet people keep blaming an area which is doing quite well 90% of the time.
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2304 on: January 20, 2011, 05:10:12 pm »
Lucas: Tidy and neat.

What I like about him is what you see is what you get, no fucking about.

Offline SMD

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2305 on: January 20, 2011, 05:13:55 pm »
he's not.... what about Meireles and Stevie

what about them?
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Offline xerxes1

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2306 on: January 20, 2011, 05:26:50 pm »
Agree with you about Lucas/Aquilani or Lucas/Alonso - holy damn that would've have been a great partnership. Was hoping this season for a Gerrard, Lucas, Aquilani trio, especially the way we're playing now.

Lucas has endured, stayed fit, and prospered in the PL- I hope he stays. Aquilani didnt.
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Offline RBrittain

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2307 on: January 20, 2011, 05:31:57 pm »
Quote
Just as an aside.  My mate went ot the match on Sunday, she's an LFC fan, but doesn't have strong views on players etc.  Anyways, I asked her how Lucas had played, and her opinion was that he was OK, but 'didn't do that much'!  She didn't slag him off, just barely noticed his contribution.  I think this shows what the average fan thinks of Lucas.  So much of what he does is understated, simple and effective that it gets overlooked.

He doesn't do Hollywood sliding tackles like Masch,
He doesn't do Hollywood passes like Gerrard
He doesn't score goals like Torres
He doesn't shout at his team mates like Carra
He doesn't have crap touch like Kuyt 


The conclusion is then reached that he doesn't do much!!!  When the opposite is so much closer to the truth.

Claude Makélélé did none of those things, yet he was highly rated by Chelsea fans, Real Madrid fans and the media.

Why assume everyone who dislikes Lucas dislikes him because he doesn't do the spectacular, when there are many unspectacular players around with high plaudits?

Also, Dirk Kuyt was man-of-the-match against Everton. I believe the figure was 80% voted for him. Lucas, IIRC, wasn't even in the top 5 contenders (from Sky Bet, which looks at the results taken from millions of viewers who voted).

Offline PETERC1992

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2308 on: January 20, 2011, 05:36:15 pm »
Off topic but did anyone see the beautiful through ball played by Poulsen that Ngog managed to miss horribly. These are the things you never see mentioned on RAWK. Why? Because Poulsen is a scapegoat.

Did you also see his genius header that gave away their goal.Not only is he a scapegoat but he is a bad scapegoat.He is not good enough at all.On the other hand lucas has 7 years on him and has done fuck all wrong ,Also in the game he manages to make an impact

Offline indianscouser

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2309 on: January 20, 2011, 05:43:18 pm »
In terms of technical ability, football intelligence, commitment and durability, Lucas is second to none at our club. Sadly, many fans do not understand this. They expect every player to be like the Gerrard's (last minute v. Olympiaks). Lucas represents the way football will be played in future. I just hope that when he has the winner's medal around his neck at Brazil 2014, he is still a red, one of us.   

Offline RBrittain

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2310 on: January 20, 2011, 05:44:45 pm »
Also, Lucas didn't get into the top 3 for MotM on the official Liverpool site (but that was only out of a few thousand votes):

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/match/last-match/last-match-motm

Neither did Kuyt, oddly. Dirk Kuyt and Lucas Leiva are, in some ways, opposite:

Kuyt is rated highly by non-Liverpool fans but rated lowly by Liverpool fans.

Lucas is rated very lowly by non-Liverpool fans but rated quite highly by Liverpool fans (though clearly not in that game).

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2311 on: January 20, 2011, 05:47:15 pm »
I disagree. Meireles is not a better passer than Lucas. Not by a long-shot.
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Nope. GrkStav is 100% right. You're blinded. Look at their passing stats etc. Watch the derby again.

Offline koolkamal

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2312 on: January 20, 2011, 05:55:14 pm »
Lucas has endured, stayed fit, and prospered in the PL- I hope he stays. Aquilani didnt.

When Aquilani did play he performed really well and the test for him staying fit would have been this season not last. So far he's been fit for Juve. We got him fit and then sent him off.
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Offline RBrittain

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2313 on: January 20, 2011, 05:58:48 pm »
Meireles a better passer than Lucas? It's difficult to say. Meireles is a more adventurous player so the stats are likely to show him with a lower pass completion %.

Offline Visigoth33

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2314 on: January 20, 2011, 06:05:03 pm »
When Aquilani did play he performed really well and the test for him staying fit would have been this season not last. So far he's been fit for Juve. We got him fit and then sent him off.
Ironic isn't it?We get rid of Aquilani because of his high wages & lack of fitness but we bring in Joe cole who has an equally terrible injury-record & wages.Only purslow & Roy can make this shit up.

Offline koolkamal

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2315 on: January 20, 2011, 06:11:36 pm »
Meireles a better passer than Lucas? It's difficult to say. Meireles is a more adventurous player so the stats are likely to show him with a lower pass completion %.

Difficult to say who's a better passer doesn't really matter but this season if you look at guardian chalkboards even Meireles has been missing even the simplest passes. Range of passing between both players have been pretty similar. Like I said - maybe it's because he's still adapting to the pace of the league but it's something he has to improve a lot more.
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Offline RBrittain

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2316 on: January 20, 2011, 06:20:32 pm »
Quote
Difficult to say who's a better passer doesn't really matter but this season if you look at guardian chalkboards even Meireles has been missing even the simplest passes. Range of passing between both players have been pretty similar. Like I said - maybe it's because he's still adapting to the pace of the league but it's something he has to improve a lot more.

I just had a look at the Guardian chalkboard for the Everton game. Most of Lucas' passes were made inside the Liverpool half. Most of Raul Meireles' passes were in the Everton half. It's quite an important difference, because the further up the pitch you are, the more you get closed down. It's easier to make unopposed passes deep within your own half.

Offline koolkamal

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2317 on: January 20, 2011, 06:32:54 pm »
I just had a look at the Guardian chalkboard for the Everton game. Most of Lucas' passes were made inside the Liverpool half. Most of Raul Meireles' passes were in the Everton half. It's quite an important difference, because the further up the pitch you are, the more you get closed down. It's easier to make unopposed passes deep within your own half.

I know what you mean but Lucas was also playing in the deeper role than Meireles and Spearing. Like I said it doesn't matter who's the better passer between the two - we just need to keep possession better, whether it's in our half or opposition half. We are starting to play a lot more quicker and fluid and with time (hope not too much time) we'll be much better in possession. Technically Lucas, Meireles, Max, Gerrard, Aurelio, Agger, Johnson, Cole,  all players who should keep possession very well even in tight areas or being closed down quickly, just need work on it more.
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Offline mulhergremista

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2318 on: January 20, 2011, 06:47:17 pm »
lol I rate your opinion of my posts as much as I rate your knowledge of the game of football.  With the way your opinion flip flops to keep yourself amused on this thread Im amazed most of the decent posters have theft patience with you. 

If you had even a little decent argument it would make it a decent debate but the best you have done so far is suggest that Lucas is not committed because he does not get injured.

OMG,  Some of the idiots in the Isaeli branch and others on some English forums was very angry  about this and said "Why the f**k he never gets injured" Can you imagine? They wish he was injured.  He is fit, he was not born fit, he had many gym hours, does not drink and does not spend nights out, mind his nutrition, and always tries to avoid stupid lances ..that can cause injuries.  It does not mean that he can't be injured eventually, he had 3 bad injuries in his last year in Gremio, he mist most of the Libertadores and the u-20 Canada mundial, as he was the captain and the most important player of that group, and he was injured in Canada by the syntetic lawn 2 days before the first mach, the coach did not train alternaive tactics and Brazil did not do well in that Mundial, Lucas came to liverpool not 100% fit BTW, after hardly playing in 2007 in Gremio because of the injuries.
Took him time to reach top fitness.
Commitment includes also avoiding injury as far as possible,  Injured player is of no use to his team.  What nonsense is to say that no injuries means no commitment?? 

« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 06:52:20 pm by mulhergremista »

Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2319 on: January 20, 2011, 06:57:05 pm »
I wonder if one of the video boffins could compile a vid of all Lucas's crunching tackles to dismiss the ridiculous  myth that he doesn't get injured because he isn't committed enough in the tackle  :o
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


Henderson won't make it here. Sorry but he won't and won't