Topic: Scottish politics [brought to you in association with Walkers shortbread]

[Red Beret]

One of my friends in the US who is pan recently split from an abusive and lazy husband. She's now in an online relationship with a trans woman she is hoping to meet soon. I couldn't be happier for her.

I really do not understand this bs over trying to mind other people's business and their life choices. Culture war bollocks.

[Elmo!]

This is very true. It's happened to the female members of my family. They will tie literally anything back into the trans issue (climate change, education). Nearly every single politician is judged almost exclusively on their stance to the trans issue. It's absolutely bizzare.

My sister and I have a constant battle bringing my mum (otherwise a very lefty progressive person) back from the brink on this stuff because she is bombarded with it on Facebook from all her pals.

[Henry Gale]

One of my friends in the US who is pan recently split from an abusive and lazy husband. She's now in an online relationship with a trans woman she is hoping to meet soon. I couldn't be happier for her.

I really do not understand this bs over trying to mind other people's business and their life choices. Culture war bollocks.

What's one of those?

[Riquende]

What's one of those?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansexuality

It's not a fetish for frying pans (or being hit by them in a comedy manner à la Vic & Bob).

[Henry Gale]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansexuality

It's not a fetish for frying pans (or being hit by them in a comedy manner à la Vic & Bob).

Ohhh Ok, learn something new everyday 

[Red-Soldier]

It's mad isn't it? These people just seem so obsessed with the issue. Can only think there is some deep lying insecurity behind it.

Apparently not.  I had to reaffirm to a poster yesterday, that I didn't understand how one could just move to the other.  For me, it seemed obvious.

[Libertine]

The SNP might be in a bit of a mess at the moment, but their leader does seem to be an impressive guy. Considering his own family is in Gaza right now.


https://twitter.com/SCoJeC/status/1712806291859447977

"Your grief is my grief."

A powerful image as @ScotGovFM @HumzaYousaf took time to speak with, and comfort, the mother and family of Glasgow born Bernard Cowan who was killed this weekend in Israel.

[KillieRed]

The big problem for Labour in Scotland is that the major issue: the desire for independence is not going to go away. They may be able to suck up the last remnants of the Tory vote by flying the Union flag, but that’s going to turn off more people than it excites in Scotland. They may be able to draw back some votes from their left by promising a more progressive agenda, but that’s not really evident right now. The impression is that they will do and say whatever they can to claw back English voters from the Tories (as they should) but that doesn’t necessarily make them attractive in Scotland. I don’t foresee an SNP wipeout at the next election. Labour might get 30 seats, but that will probably just top off their expected massive gains in England and not really mean much , as usual, in the scheme of things.

[Red Beret]

So we have a Scottish MSP who has run up an eleven grand bill on his government issued iPad, which he swears blind was 100% down to government business. Sure. 

[KillieRed]

Bidding on eBay for motor homes?

[Elmo!]

There was some suggestion the dates happened to coincide with when there were football matches on... using a dogy stream abroad on a government issued tablet. Thoug it was a Tory MSP suggesting that so take with a pinch of salt.

[Red-Soldier]

There was some suggestion the dates happened to coincide with when there were football matches on... using a dogy stream abroad on a government issued tablet. Thoug it was a Tory MSP suggesting that so take with a pinch of salt.

Health Secretary Michael Matheson has admitted his sons watching football on his parliamentary iPad was the cause of an £11,000 data roaming charge.

The bill was incurred during a trip to Morocco last Christmas.

The expense was initially picked up by the Scottish Parliament, which was told by Mr Matheson that the iPad was only used for work.

He has since paid the money back and said he had referred himself to the parliament for further investigation.

[Elmo!]

He's a fucking idiot lying about it. Accidents with these things happen, it happens to people at our work all the time when they are travelling. He should have been more careful of course, but also the Parliamnent should have high usage alerts setup. We do at our place so we can step in and warn users when they start running up a big bill.

[Musketeer Gripweed]

To make matters worse, it was Celtic he was watching.

[Red Beret]

He's a fucking idiot lying about it. Accidents with these things happen, it happens to people at our work all the time when they are travelling. He should have been more careful of course, but also the Parliament should have high usage alerts setup. We do at our place so we can step in and warn users when they start running up a big bill.

It seems that, regardless of the issue, a politician's natural instinct is to immediately lie and try to evade taking responsibility. It's only the fact a huge amount of pressure was put on him that he eventually coughed up the truth, when it would have been far better if he had just been honest from the fucking start.

Mistakes happen, we're all human. But that doesn't mean we get to skate when we screw up. He probably wouldn't be under investigation now if he had just admitted his mistake. But I guess in this case it's less about the money (which is still pretty bad) and more about the potential security breach of allowing somebody else - even family - to access your government issued iPad.

[Elmo!]

It seems that, regardless of the issue, a politician's natural instinct is to immediately lie and try to evade taking responsibility. It's only the fact a huge amount of pressure was put on him that he eventually coughed up the truth, when it would have been far better if he had just been honest from the fucking start.

Mistakes happen, we're all human. But that doesn't mean we get to skate when we screw up. He probably wouldn't be under investigation now if he had just admitted his mistake. But I guess in this case it's less about the money (which is still pretty bad) and more about the potential security breach of allowing somebody else - even family - to access your government issued iPad.

So basically his sons took his tablet whilst on holiday in Morocco, to watch the football. It's irresponsible and he shouldn't have allowed it, but essentially a stupid mistake, then he compounded by lying about it.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

So basically his sons took his tablet whilst on holiday in Morocco, to watch the football. It's irresponsible and he shouldn't have allowed it, but essentially a stupid mistake, then he compounded by lying about it.

Watching their IPTV on a Gov tablet 

[Red-Soldier]

It seems that, regardless of the issue, a politician's natural instinct is to immediately lie and try to evade taking responsibility. It's only the fact a huge amount of pressure was put on him that he eventually coughed up the truth, when it would have been far better if he had just been honest from the fucking start.

Mistakes happen, we're all human. But that doesn't mean we get to skate when we screw up. He probably wouldn't be under investigation now if he had just admitted his mistake. But I guess in this case it's less about the money (which is still pretty bad) and more about the potential security breach of allowing somebody else - even family - to access your government issued iPad.

Yep.

[Red Beret]

Yep.

And politicians in general wonder why voters are so apathetic and cynical.

If you can lie about this you can basically lie about anything. I thought leadership was about taking responsibility. Instead, we just have repeated examples of the contempt politicians have for the people they supposedly serve. Lies are bad enough, but these are stupid lies. That's how dumb they think people are.

[KillieRed]

I read The Guardian most mornings. In the last few months it’s struck me that they seem to have a daily “Scotland Bad” story (there’s a couple today; one about the Murrell/SNP fraud case that somehow required Police Scotland to put a murder tent on his lawn, and one about the Scottish Government abandoning plans on emissions). It sounds like an awful place to live.

It’s almost as if they have dedicated journos whose task it is to write negative articles daily. Is there an election due or something? It’ll be interesting to see if these attack pieces continue when a centre-right Labour Party regains power at Westminster and/or Holyrood.

[TepidT2O]

The former leader of the SNPs/first ministers  husband has just been arrested for (I think) fraud.  That’s a huge story.

I think there’s an issue that any group of people who are in power for a long time seem to end up losing sight of what got them there in the first place. Standards slip, things get overlooked as people get tired and run out of fresh ideas.
Sadly, inevitable

[west_london_red]

The former leader of the SNPs/first ministers  husband has just been arrested for (I think) fraud.  That’s a huge story.

I think there’s an issue that any group of people who are in power for a long time seem to end up losing sight of what got them there in the first place. Standards slip, things get overlooked as people get tired and run out of fresh ideas.
Sadly, inevitable

Being in power for too long can well lead to “losing sight of what got them there in the first place. Standards slip, things get overlooked as people get tired and run out of fresh ideas”, that’s completely understandable but that’s very different to fraud or theft.

[John C]

The former leader of the SNPs/first ministers  husband has just been arrested for (I think) fraud.  That’s a huge story.

I think there’s an issue that any group of people who are in power for a long time seem to end up losing sight of what got them there in the first place. Standards slip, things get overlooked as people get tired and run out of fresh ideas.
Sadly, inevitable

It's a particularly sad affair isn't it.
I don't have any interest in Scottish politics but its fucking(allegedly) rotten knowing that respectable folks have put their trust in these people and voted them in to power in good faith in what can be considered a small community in which their should be a togetherness.

[TepidT2O]

It's a particularly sad affair isn't it.
I don't have any interest in Scottish politics but its fucking(allegedly) rotten knowing that respectable folks have put their trust in these people and voted them in to power in good faith in what can be considered a small community in which their should be a togetherness.

It’s a bit long a go for me, but maybe militant is a good comparison?  The best of intentions when they started …but just went awry.

[Yorkykopite]

It’s a bit long a go for me, but maybe militant is a good comparison?  The best of intentions when they started …but just went awry.

I don't think that's fair on the SNP. Militant was born in the early 1960s as a secret organisation masquerading as something it really wasn't. Its original aim was to fasten on to the Labour Party and subvert it. Its leaders never did believe in representative democracy or democratic socialism. Their aim, as Trotskyists, was to destroy both.

The SNP however was - still is - a democratic Party whose public objectives are broadly the same as their private ones. Their leaders have proved surprisingly corruptible, but the party will survive. And clearly the Scottish Nationalists are capable of mobilising a large section of public opinion around their programme, which Militant never were (and were never interested in doing).

[TepidT2O]

Yeah, that’s probably fair

[Elmo!]

I do agree that the SNP need some time out of government in Holyrood, and time to rebuild with some fresh faces.

It's interesting that support for indy is still holding up - still in the lead in the latest poll. I've thought for a long time that the link between indy support and support for indy needed to be broken.

[Kenny's Jacket]

I do agree that the SNP need some time out of government in Holyrood, and time to rebuild with some fresh faces.

It's interesting that support for indy is still holding up - still in the lead in the latest poll. I've thought for a long time that the link between indy support and support for indy needed to be broken.

Does this mean you want the SNP to stop asking  for funds, sorry if this is a daft question?

[Elmo!]

Does this mean you want the SNP to stop asking  for funds, sorry if this is a daft question?

No I just mean the indy movement not being almost completely tied to the SNP. Other parties support it like the Greens and Albe (as much as I despise them).

[John C]

but maybe militant is a good comparison? 

And clearly the Scottish Nationalists are capable of mobilising a large section of public opinion around their programme, which Militant never were (and were never interested in doing).

An interesting discussion.
Just briefly as I don't want to derail the thread. Yorky is right in his point above, however Liverpool Militant were capable of mobilising support locally. My recollection is the City wasn't great under the Liberals (they were regarded as Tory-light) and the conventional Labour party couldn't get a foothold, so their arrival at that time in the Thatcher era was welcome. To us here anyway.
Of course they were going to have to be dismantled because their style of governance was a very selfish one, albeit many in the city benefited.
A further recollection was that they were very much a 'jobs for the boys' organisation. Many people gaining employment in the City Council at that time came from their ranks.
During another period, there was a point when you couldn't even be shortlisted for a job at the council if you were not unemployed.

[Shankly998]

It’s a bit long a go for me, but maybe militant is a good comparison?  The best of intentions when they started …but just went awry.

I mean they're politicians at the end of the day people should never be putting them on a pedestal

[Wabaloolah]

Power sharing agreement has collapsed, vote of no confidence called. Could there be an election in Scotland soon? Not sure whether a new election is allowed or if it's a fixed term parliament. Interesting times...

[KillieRed]

The emissions targets were never gonna be met under current conditions, Greens have just shot themselves in the foot considering their outsized influence on government.

[PatriotScouser]

What a great day.

[Elmo!]

The emissions targets were never gonna be met under current conditions, Greens have just shot themselves in the foot considering their outsized influence on government.

From what I have read it's the SNP that have jumped the gun and ended it? Though seems like more a case of jumping before you are pushed.

I think it's a mistake by the SNP and from those in the Greens that were pushing to end it.

The SNP are going to need the Greens to get stuff through, and that would have been easier if they had let the Greens be the ones to end the deal.

EDIT: And of course it looks like there is going to be a no confidence vote in Yousaf. Without the Greens who he has just pissed off, he is toast.

[Elmo!]

And the greens have confirmed they will vote against Yousaf in vote of confidence. He's shot himself in the foot.

I've defended him quite a bit, think he has had a lot of criticism that was undeserved but this was idiotic.

[Red Beret]

not so much shot himself in the foot as machine gunning himself in both feet. Or jumping on a landmine. The outcome is the same.

This is a bad time for an election for the SNP. If Labour get some traction in the Scottish parliament, it may boost their credentials as the GE rolls around.

[Red-Soldier]

Not the sharpest pencil in the box.