Topic: Alfie Evans

[WhereAngelsPlay]

He isn't talking about people on the bus, he's talking about people outside the hospital causing issues for people passing on buses etc. But he's also generalizing that it's only people who dress a certain way, aren't in employment and having particular viewing habits.

It's not.

The super fine people who tried to storm the hospital and harassed people who are trying to get  in.

[AlphaDelta]

He isn't talking about people on the bus, he's talking about people outside the hospital causing issues for people passing on buses etc. But he's also generalizing that it's only people who dress a certain way, aren't in employment and having particular viewing habits.

It's not.

'He' is called Andy, or AlphaDelta on here and I'm not generalizing at all, I am speaking on what I have seen over recent weeks. Do I have an issue with people trying to storm a children's hospital - yes, do I have an issue with people abusing nurses and doctors and calling them murderers - yes, do I have an issue with crowds intimidating people who don't beep or show support when driving past Alder Hey.

No objections whatsoever to a peaceful protest, but this hasn't been peaceful has it, its intimidating already ill children and their parents.

I'm not saying you in particular have participated in all of the above, and yeah fair play for what you believe in, but I find it hard to reason with whats happened outside that hospital recently.

[SlowRap]

"storm the hospital" it looked like a few mums were just letting emotions get the best of them not condoning their action but it was hardly a "storm"

[Lush is the best medicine...]

"storm the hospital" it looked like a few mums were just letting emotions get the best of them not condoning their action but it was hardly a "storm"

oh that makes it fine when people who have no involvement in the case decide to do stuff like that to a fucking kids hospital

[CraigDS]

"storm the hospital" it looked like a few mums were just letting emotions get the best of them not condoning their action but it was hardly a "storm"

That's not how a Mother of a child who was in there being operated on described it after she was caught up in the middle of it.

I'll take her version of events over someone who wasn't there.

[Upinsmoke]

their job is to do best by the patient not do what the parents want, that’s why he’s there

As for the quote, did it come from his dad, the same one who said the doctors told him he was right to do what he did?

No the quotes are from a doctor and a lawyer

So you can see where justice Hayden has asked if death would be quick and he's given the answer it could be. I'm sure he would of took on board the opinion of a medical professional as he should do, but death hasn't been quick and he could of spent the last few days dying at home. Obviously then you have the backtracking of the lawyer in the other quote.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

"storm the hospital" it looked like a few mums were just letting emotions get the best of them not condoning their action but it was hardly a "storm"

Tell that to the pregnant woman..

Stormaphobia is rampant eh Mr.Mogg

[CraigDS]

He never said it WOULD be though, he clearly says it COULD (and MAY) be. Which I imagine was a complete possibility, as was being able to survive hours and days.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

No the quotes are from a doctor and a lawyer

So you can see where justice Hayden has asked if death would be quick and he's given the answer it could be. I'm sure he would of took on board the opinion of a medical professional as he should do, but death hasn't been quick and he could of spent the last few days dying at home. Obviously then you have the backtracking of the lawyer in the other quote.

he said it could happen not would, big big difference

[djphal]

No the quotes are from a doctor and a lawyer

So you can see where justice Hayden has asked if death would be quick and he's given the answer it could be. I'm sure he would of took on board the opinion of a medical professional as he should do, but death hasn't been quick and he could of spent the last few days dying at home. Obviously then you have the backtracking of the lawyer in the other quote.

obviously you are reading what you want to read and not what is actually written

He may only be able to

death could be quite quick


these are words that clearly indicate that the doctor wasn't sure

[Andy82lfc]

From what I read the other day a representative at the hospital indicated at times like these it is basically at their discretion whether they will make big efforts to move such a case to a home were they can be cared for there, but as I read it they were unsure whether to offer that due to the fact so much abuse has been given to the staff throughout. Not just obviously from outside but what goes on inside from the family.

People saying they don't understand why they don't just let him go home is also quite infuriating. Who needs experts hey. Doctors take an oath to give as much care as they can, the worry is that if they take him away from a hospital to someones living room where 100% care can not be observed and something happens, what then? If there are seizures, or complications of which there can be hundreds and more suffering occurs it would be on their heads.

Doctors at times like these would take those risks on and possibly let the patient go home, but when those risks are also met with the abuse they will take and all the complications that come with that, I'm not surprised they have great concerns to do this.

I think in the end the doctors and staff of that hospital being fantastic, caring people will more than likely say, ok, we will take these risks and give you peace, even if it means more worry for us.

[rob1966]

I know this country is full of morons who need to get their pig ignorant views heard, but I get angry when I see people spreading shit on Social Media that the hospital want him to die so they cannot be sued - that is fucking sick, stupid c*nts.

I love the NHS and owe so much to the staff.  had my tonsils out in Alder Hey when I was 10, they looked after us kids so well. The NHS saved my life when I needed heart surgery and now they are helping me get better from mental issues and have helped me save my marriage.

[liversaint]

"storm the hospital" it looked like a few mums were just letting emotions get the best of them not condoning their action but it was hardly a "storm"

It was far beyond that. Normal security has been overwhelmed, the police had to get reinforcements to the doors and also patrolling the corridors.
Doctors have been abused and threatened and named on social media
Nurses the same.
Other families have had to run this gauntlet whilst visiting the own kids, in some cases equally sick.
All have been advised to take lanyards etc off when leaving and to use back entrances
Threats have been made to activate the fire alarm to evacuate the building to allow Alfie to be taken.
The road has been blocked and motorists intimidated, buses diverted.
The play area inside was taken over by the kids of these protestors.

First hand report from my daughter, who is a trainee doctor there on placement. i don't follow it on social media as my piss would boil over.

[B0151?]

"storm the hospital" it looked like a few mums were just letting emotions get the best of them not condoning their action but it was hardly a "storm"

That's not what people who were, you know, actually there said.

Being in a fucking children's hospital is as scary and stressful as it is, that anybody would intentionally add to the stress and worry of those there is unforgivably selfish.

[WhoHe]

If they let him go home to die or win court case to do so then I assume the circus will try and blame the hospital when he inevitably dies. How people on here try and justify or normalise this disgraceful behaviour is really quite sad and indicates the undermining of experts by mob rule via social media and aggressive protests. I would hate to know how much all this has cost the NHS and who is funding the parents for multiple appeals beside the backward Christian nutters.
As has been said i think the parents - particularly the Dad are enjoyinmg the spotlight a little too much now. Spend the last days with your seriously ill son and when he dies thank every person in Alder Hey for doing their best under extreme circumstances that you helped to get out of hand.

[glewis93]

If they let him go home to die or win court case to do so then I assume the circus will try and blame the hospital when he inevitably dies. How people on here try and justify or normalise this disgraceful behaviour is really quite sad and indicates the undermining of experts by mob rule via social media and aggressive protests. I would hate to know how much all this has cost the NHS and who is funding the parents for multiple appeals beside the backward Christian nutters.
As has been said i think the parents - particularly the Dad are enjoyinmg the spotlight a little too much now. Spend the last days with your seriously ill son and when he dies thank every person in Alder Hey for doing their best under extreme circumstances that you helped to get out of hand.

This is a huge problem now when Alfie does die. It will be all the hospital and the doctors fault and this insane notion that it's all a grand conspiracy won't stop.

If people honestly believe that Alder Hey are responsible for murdering a child then I would hope they never have to use them, the irony is it's the first place most of them will go begging for help should their children become ill.

I've had people debate with me saying "Alder Hey is a fantastic hospital, I'd take my kids there in a heartbeat... But there's something dodgy going on." ... Those two statements cannot fit together. You either accept it is a fantastic hospital with Alfies' best interest at heart, or you think it's riddled with corruption.

It's hard to argue with people who are logically making no sense and not realising it.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

From James O’Brien’s twitter

I've just confirmed that Pavel Stroilov, the Russian law student 'advising' Alfie Evans' family and described by a High Court judge as 'fanatical and deluded', used to work for Ukip leader Gerard Batten. Funny old world.

So not only is he not a lawyer he’s someone who’s done stuff for the kippers leader, type of person you’d want fighting your corner

[B0151?]

As critical as I am of the family and the way they have behaved it definitely does seem like they've fallen prey to attention seeking malicious types, such as the man above.

This story interesting example of the way social media mob and those types of characters work.

[Upinsmoke]

Yeah they've been poorly advised by people looking to further personal agenda's. That's made me feel quite upset actually.

[J_Kopite]

From James O’Brien’s twitter

I've just confirmed that Pavel Stroilov, the Russian law student 'advising' Alfie Evans' family and described by a High Court judge as 'fanatical and deluded', used to work for Ukip leader Gerard Batten. Funny old world.

So not only is he not a lawyer he’s someone who’s done stuff for the kippers leader, type of person you’d want fighting your corner

How Russophobic of you.

[Roady]

Oxygen, water and milk. He isnt receiving life support. Think he might be getting an anti seizure drug too.

Yeah I've seen the quote, I will try and find it but the echo did publicise it (They couldn't name the lawyer representing AH for legal reasons) but it's out there. Then when they went back recently the lawyer said nobody ever said he would die within minutes and it would be quick etc.

I can't understand why they won't let him at least go home. Then the doctors and nurses can get back to doing what they love doing, the whole circus outside the hospital will go and Alfie will be allowed to die in the comfort of his own home.

The three minute quote is a bit of a misconception and taken out of context. There was an awful lot more to that quote.

[Roady]

It’s a very sad state of affairs. Unfortunately They are now just prolonging the inevitable. I feel for the parents it’s a horrendous thing to go through but they’ve gone about this all the wrong way now.

[Nobby Reserve]

To witness the mob rule outside the door of a hospital where its staff give selfless care and support to children and their relatives day in day out is a national disgrace. Parents and family members of kids currently undergoing treatment have their own battles which are just as painful for them as it is for Alfie’s parents, family and friends, yet they are exposed to that shite circus on their arrival at the hospital.

Great hospital, great staff doing wonderful things day in day out in the course of children’s health care.  I do hope Alfie and his parents find peace but not at the expense of others and the demonizing of a hospital and its hard working dedicated staff… its bang out of order…

Part and parcel of the growth of the Fuckwitterati.

It goes way beyond this case.

[classycarra]

"storm the hospital" it looked like a few mums were just letting emotions get the best of them not condoning their action but it was hardly a "storm"

If you scroll down you'll see what someone's daughter has described about the scene. Someone 'on the ground', as you put it. Much better perspective.

And please, not all of those people are mums - that's mumophobia

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Yeah they've been poorly advised by people looking to further personal agenda's. That's made me feel quite upset actually.

the Americans using this to slate ‘socialised healthcare’ and how the government can kill kids, even though if this had happened in the states either the parents wouldn’t have been able to afford the healthcare or the insurers would have turned off life support a long time ago as he wasn’t going to survive this and its wasted money in their eyes to keep paying for life support

[thejbs]

No the quotes are from a doctor and a lawyer

So you can see where justice Hayden has asked if death would be quick and he's given the answer it could be. I'm sure he would of took on board the opinion of a medical professional as he should do, but death hasn't been quick and he could of spent the last few days dying at home. Obviously then you have the backtracking of the lawyer in the other quote.

Liverpool could win the Champions League.
Liverpool might win the League next year.

I suppose if those two things don't happen I can expect to be pilloried by you?

[Roady]

Some of the videos on social media of his dad are a disgrace to be honest.

[Upinsmoke]

Liverpool could win the Champions League.
Liverpool might win the League next year.

I suppose if those two things don't happen I can expect to be pilloried by you?

Where have i pillored anyone?

If your telling the judge you could be talking minutes and you could contemplate a quick death, three days later is pretty wide of the mark. Infact them three days become even more remarkablely long because its precious time he could be at home. It's time Alder Hey could be using to treat other kids.

[CraigDS]

If your telling the judge you could be talking minutes and you could contemplate a quick death, three days later is pretty wide of the mark. Infact them three days become even more remarkablely long because its precious time he could be at home. It's time Alder Hey could be using to treat other kids.

The doctor was asked a specific question by the judge "could it be a matter of minutes?", and this is what they answered.

Were they also asked "could it be a matter of days?".

[thejbs]

Where have i pillored anyone?

If your telling the judge you could be talking minutes and you could contemplate a quick death, three days later is pretty wide of the mark. Infact them three days become even more remarkablely long because its precious time he could be at home. It's time Alder Hey could be using to treat other kids.

You're insinuating that the Doctor misled the judge, or that what has happened has shown the doctor to be a flawed expert. Neither of which are true and feed into the hysteria that doctors are withholding treatment or euthanising the boy.

With Alfie's type of brain degradation, patients generally die minutes to hours after life support is removed. There have been cases of people living days and weeks, but it's rare. But then, this is a rare and exceptional case.  The doctor was asked, 'could it be a matter of minutes?' and was correct to say that it could be.

With regard to the 'could've been at home' part, this is also flawed.  It takes great cost and careful assessment to ready a home for the palliative care that Alfie needs. It's not a case of putting him in an ambulance and taking him home.The transfer alone might well have killed him. He's also still receiving oxygen and nutrition at AH.

A few doctors on Twitter have written extensive threads explaining the court case and the reality of the boy's illness in great detail. No sane judge could've reached any other conclusion in this case.

[SP]

The reason he has not gone home to die is that the parents’ conduct up to this point has rendered it a very real possibility that they will defy the court order and try to leave the country. The courts blocked flight to Italy as it was not in the child’s best interest as it would likely prolong his suffering with no hope of improvement.

[ErieRed]

the Americans using this to slate ‘socialised healthcare’ and how the government can kill kids, even though if this had happened in the states either the parents wouldn’t have been able to afford the healthcare or the insurers would have turned off life support a long time ago as he wasn’t going to survive this and its wasted money in their eyes to keep paying for life support

You don't know what you're talking about, do you?

[ErieRed]

The reason he has not gone home to die is that the parents’ conduct up to this point has rendered it a very real possibility that they will defy the court order and try to leave the country. The courts blocked flight to Italy as it was not in the child’s best interest as it would likely prolong his suffering with no hope of improvement.

I'm sure the jackboots policing your streets would take time away from imprisoning pensioners who flip them the bird to ensure that the court's will be done. 

I really can't believe some of the things I'm reading here.  Respect for life, liberty, and the individual have been all but snuffed out, haven't they?

[gazzalfc]

Finally common sense prevails all round.

[TravisBickle]

I'm sure the jackboots policing your streets would take time away from imprisoning pensioners who flip them the bird to ensure that the court's will be done. 

I really can't believe some of the things I'm reading here.  Respect for life, liberty, and the individual have been all but snuffed out, haven't they?

 What are you talking about?

[Barneylfc∗]

Finally common sense prevails all round.

That's nice, after all the shite and hassle he has caused for the staff at the hospital.

[Carras Left Foot]

Hope Alder Hay have forced him to say that. He's an absolute whopper.

[Alan_X]

"storm the hospital" it looked like a few mums were just letting emotions get the best of them not condoning their action but it was hardly a "storm"

Sorry mate, please don’t take this the wrong way but what the fuck has it got to do with them? They are clearly  ignorant if the medical science behind the hospital’s decision and their emotions are just that - selfish emotional reactions because it’s a child.

I feel especially angry about this because my brother is a consultant in obstetrics and fetal medicine who has delivered and treated thousands of children in his years as a medical specialist. When those muppets get ‘emotional’ and have a go at decent, honest and committed people like my brother they are essentially calling him and every other doctor, nurse and specialist a c*nt.

Maybe those ‘emotional’ mums should spend 7 years becoming a doctor then fifteen, twenty years becoming a leading specialist in their field before spouting off some of the shite I’ve seen about this and that last case.

[Jiminy Cricket]

"storm the hospital" it looked like a few mums were just letting emotions get the best of them not condoning their action but it was hardly a "storm"

That's not what people who were, you know, actually there said.

Being in a fucking children's hospital is as scary and stressful as it is, that anybody would intentionally add to the stress and worry of those there is unforgivably selfish.

Na, mate. Some random idiot on Twitter on t'Internet said it - must be true.

Can someone explain to this non-UK resident what the authorities there are doing about these moronic thugs? Why have they not been arrested?

[So… Howard Philips]

I'm sure the jackboots policing your streets would take time away from imprisoning pensioners who flip them the bird to ensure that the court's will be done. 

I really can't believe some of the things I'm reading here.  Respect for life, liberty, and the individual have been all but snuffed out, haven't they?

What jackboots?