Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[Robinred]

Those fellas wouldn't know a good pint of English ale if you threw one in their face.

Try it and tell me I'm wrong.

Jingoism at its finest. The Belgians have better beer, chocolate and chips (and footballers). 😉

[Trada]

Most of the leave voters would struggle to get out of their armchair or off their bar stool! Either way we shouldn't be cowed by the threat of violence.

You have to remember not all leavers who went to the march will be like that, I was reading stories on Twitter of normal people who went to the march with children begging police to let them out of the area woman crying saying things like its full of thugs and loads of racist chanting.

The Tories and the leave campaign  have been taken over by the far right aided by the media.

When you get BBC News yesterday describe Tommy Robinson as an “anti-Islam activist”

[Red Beret]

You have to remember not all leavers who went to the march will be like that, I was reading stories on Twitter of normal people who went to the march with children begging police to let them out of the area woman crying saying things like its full of thugs and loads of racist chanting.

The Tories and the leave campaign  have been taken over by the far right aided by the media.

Well they may have voted Leave for what they thought were legitimate reasons, but it was always going to be exploited by fascists and thugs.  Maybe if they see the kind of people who have felt enabled by events they might just recognise the EU plays a huge role as a moderating influence. 

We're stronger together - this is the kind of idiocy that the EU was originally conceived to help prevent.

[andy07]

You have to remember not all leavers who went to the march will be like that, I was reading stories on Twitter of normal people who went to the march with children begging police to let them out of the area woman crying saying things like its full of thugs and loads of racist chanting.

The Tories and the leave campaign  have been taken over by the far right aided by the media.

When you get BBC News yesterday describe Tommy Robinson as an “anti-Islam activist”

If they succeed in pushing Brexit through it will be a foot the first rung of the ladder for the hardened Brexiteers.  Gradually anyone who opposes them will be removed from office until they gave total
control.  We will move further and further to the right with nobody to stand against them.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I would love an election, but I can't see how she can threaten one, because she just can't call for one now MPs have to vote for it.

Or am I missing something.

You're missing lots of things fella.She certainly has more authority to call an election than Comrade Jezza and his merry band of nodding Trots.

[Yorkykopite]

You have to remember not all leavers who went to the march will be like that.

We know that JJ. There's a few fascists of course. Most are ordinary Tories. One or two are Corbynistas.

[rob1966]

Most of the leave voters would struggle to get out of their armchair or off their bar stool! Either way we shouldn't be cowed by the threat of violence.

They wouldn;t even get out of the left luggage room

[Red Beret]

We know that JJ. There's a few fascists of course. Most are ordinary Tories. One or two are Corbynistas.

How many people were at the Remain march again?  And how much trouble was there?

There will always be people looking to cause aggro, but for some reason they pick the Leave side rather than Remain.  Now maybe it's just over reported because the Leave gathering was smaller, but it seems to me some people are looking to be purposefully confrontational and they find Leave better suited to their needs.  Just my observation though.

[24/7]

And exemplifications of Muphry's Law

Muphry's?

[rob1966]

How many people were at the Remain march again?  And how much trouble was there?

There will always be people looking to cause aggro, but for some reason they pick the Leave side rather than Remain.  Now maybe it's just over reported because the Leave gathering was smaller, but it seems to me some people are looking to be purposefully confrontational and they find Leave better suited to their needs.  Just my observation though.

They are racist bastard, pieces of shit thugs, they would cause murder at a tiddlywinks competition, because that is the kind of fuckwitted knuckledraggers that they are. They pick leave because they are xenophobic, racist, whites are the supreme race c*nts.

[24/7]

Was it because of the straw boater and striped Liverpool College summer blazer?

More likely because of the grey shorts, the violin case and the stupid black cap.......oh and the fact it was usually a Saturday too. FML.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

[Lush is the best medicine...]

They pick leave because they are xenophobic, racist, whites are the supreme race c*nts.

the irony here is quite funny as pretty much all of them will have utterly failed in life, yet think they’re the superior race

[Andy @ Allerton!]

You have to remember not all leavers who went to the march will be like that, I was reading stories on Twitter of normal people who went to the march with children begging police to let them out of the area woman crying saying things like its full of thugs and loads of racist chanting.

The Tories and the leave campaign  have been taken over by the far right aided by the media.

When you get BBC News yesterday describe Tommy Robinson as an “anti-Islam activist”

"TAKEN OVER by the far right.."

Muwahahahah ha ha ha ha ha ha.... Fucking honestly?




"We voted Nazi but didn't realise by voting Nazi, we'd be voting Nazi.."

[Not that Gareth]

the irony here is quite funny as pretty much all of them will have utterly failed in life, yet think they’re the superior race

Ha the ultimate irony is those twats are also running with a union jack flag not realising they are probably assigning that flag to the bin.

[Trada]

There goes the election option.


Election Maps UK
‏ @ElectionMapsUK

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 41% (+5)
CON: 36% (-7)
UKIP: 7% (+2)
LDM: 7% (+1)

Via @DeltapollUK,
Changes w/ 21-23 Feb.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Ha the ultimate irony is those twats are also running with a union jack flag not realising they are probably assigning that flag to the bin.

very true!

[Yorkykopite]

There goes the election option.

Right.

So all out for a Second Referendum now for you guys, right? Conference and all that?

[Trada]

Right.

So all out for a Second Referendum now for you guys, right? Conference and all that?

God no still try to force that election it will be harder now.

Like Jeremy said you won't know what is on a PV it maybe just Mays deal or no deal.

I won't trust the Tories to hold a fair one once the vote to have one is won.

[Elmo!]

God no still try to force that election it will be harder now.

Like Jeremy said you won't know what is on a PV it maybe just Mays deal or no deal.

I won't trust the Tories to hold a fair one once the vote to have one is won.

God no? That is your reaction to the idea of going for a people's vote?

I'm not surprised, I''m just surprised you are so honest about it on here.

[Yorkykopite]

So Jizza, you admit that the election option is no more, but you think Labour should wait for the election option.

What's wrong with you?

[Red Beret]

They are racist bastard, pieces of shit thugs, they would cause murder at a tiddlywinks competition, because that is the kind of fuckwitted knuckledraggers that they are. They pick leave because they are xenophobic, racist, whites are the supreme race c*nts.

Well that's a bit more on the nose than I was trying to put it, but yeah.

Who cares if Labour win an election anyway?  It's not like Brexit will be cancelled, or even if we'll get a second referendum - even though it's technically Labour policy?

At best that poll rules out May trying to blackmail the Tories, but there's nothing stopping Jezza from tabling a new No Confidence motion.

[FlashGordon]

I still think he's a bot, a sophisticated bot but still a bot.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I still think he's a bot, a sophisticated bot but still a bot.

nah he just needs an intervention

[Yosser0_0]

SNIP

Thanks, good read that and I enjoyed it.

Last week I tackled my working class scouser Tory Dad again, following the "People's Vote" march and showed him the Heseltine speech on my phone, hoping that it would strike a chord with him. He was aware that Churchill always wanted a united Europe and the other historical references, he isn't stupid. I then pointed out some home truths to him, mostly from spending a couple of hours reading articles but also from information gained in this forum - thanks this is an amazing forum full of well informed, intelligent posters (Apart from BIG DICK NICK). 

Some of the facts that I pointed out, which completely shocked him:-

The referendum was advisory.
Theresa May's government has been found guilty of Contempt of Parliament (First in history).
You don't get free trade with the EU without freedom of movement.
ANY trade deal with the EU comes at a cost.
etc., the list continued.

He said that I sounded like a lawyer, when in reality, I've only spent a few hours reading things and that's the problem, people are just too lazy to find things out and rely on being spoon fed by bias media. I pointed out that he is being led by the far right and asked him for one single advantage of leaving the EU. He didn't want to be ruled by France/Germany and his language soon degenerated into racist terms, I told him to stop using that language and called him a racist, which he said he wasn't? I also pointed out to him, how shall I put this, that some of the terminology he used wasn't actually referring to a European race - get that!

I haven't shown it, but I've been pretty upset about it since, mainly because I'm embarrassed by somebody I've always respected. In reflection, I've been thinking about the reasons for the outburst, I don't think he is actually a racist and it was a kickback to me being such a smart arse, you know actually doing a bit of research. However the thing that really scares me is the fact that suddenly normal working class people are coming out with such extreme language AND its becoming acceptable. The current UK climate and parallels with Nazi Germany mentioned in this thread are striking, this is how it starts by making racism mainstream and acceptable.

I think it may be time for me to start exploring opportunities abroad if this is a taste of things to come.     
 

[Mag Hull]

God no still try to force that election it will be harder now.

Like Jeremy said you won't know what is on a PV it maybe just Mays deal or no deal.

I won't trust the Tories to hold a fair one once the vote to have one is won.

Fuck me Pravda or whatever you call yourself - you’re a Corbynista not a Sandinista

[Yosser0_0]

Matthew Parris in pungent form

Must admit, I don't remember the quote from T.May in '17 about voting for "Her Brexit". Is that why the Tory's lost their majority or is it more  complicated than that?

[24/7]

SNIP

Know exactly how you feel there - my mum's the same - her research amounts to reading the Daily Express, the Daily Mail and listening to whatever her mates say in the WI.........does my head in.

[oldfordie]

Thanks, good read that and I enjoyed it.

Last week I tackled my working class scouser Tory Dad again, following the "People's Vote" march and showed him the Heseltine speech on my phone, hoping that it would strike a chord with him. He was aware that Churchill always wanted a united Europe and the other historical references, he isn't stupid. I then pointed out some home truths to him, mostly from spending a couple of hours reading articles but also from information gained in this forum - thanks this is an amazing forum full of well informed, intelligent posters (Apart from BIG DICK NICK). 

Some of the facts that I pointed out, which completely shocked him:-

The referendum was advisory.
Theresa May's government has been found guilty of Contempt of Parliament (First in history).
You don't get free trade with the EU without freedom of movement.
ANY trade deal with the EU comes at a cost.
etc., the list continued.

He said that I sounded like a lawyer, when in reality, I've only spent a few hours reading things and that's the problem, people are just too lazy to find things out and rely on being spoon fed by bias media. I pointed out that he is being led by the far right and asked him for one single advantage of leaving the EU. He didn't want to be ruled by France/Germany and his language soon degenerated into racist terms, I told him to stop using that language and called him a racist, which he said he wasn't? I also pointed out to him, how shall I put this, that some of the terminology he used wasn't actually referring to a European race - get that!

I haven't shown it, but I've been pretty upset about it since, mainly because I'm embarrassed by somebody I've always respected. In reflection, I've been thinking about the reasons for the outburst, I don't think he is actually a racist and it was a kickback to me being such a smart arse, you know actually doing a bit of research. However the thing that really scares me is the fact that suddenly normal working class people are coming out with such extreme language AND its becoming acceptable. The current UK climate and parallels with Nazi Germany mentioned in this thread are striking, this is how it starts by making racism mainstream and acceptable.

I think it may be time for me to start exploring opportunities abroad if this is a taste of things to come.   

I had a conversation on the phone yesterday with a relative who emigrated to Australia last year, very calm conversation,  he was saying he voted remain but he would probably vote leave now as the EU are punishing us. I asked him to give me a example of how the EU are punishing us, he was saying they are stopping frictionless trading to punish us, they allow Switzerland to have it and they aren't in the EU. I told him Switzerland doesn't have frictionless trading, they have a hard border. he tried to get his point over without being forceful and told me, he said he had read they do and he had seen a video of the border showing people crossing with no customs checks, I pointed out they are not in the EU but they have agreed to FOM to get a single market deal so people are entitled to cross quickly but put some thing in a lorry and you will be in a long tail back queuing up to go through customs, the customs checks are on goods not people, go on you tube and check the videos when the cameras showing the right hand side of the road, it will show a very long queue of lorries, this is a typical example of leaves lies, whoever took that video would have seen those lorries  so they knew they were telling lies, he's a great lad, intelligent so there was no argument," Oh I didn't know that." I pointed out a few other things like tariffs kicking in on all goods coming in around the world, so this is not just about the effect of leaving the EU hitting us, it will hit prices in the shops on all imported goods no matter where they come from, so we are talking inflation and interest rises. he sounded shocked,  I wish all leave voters had his reaction, "am glad you told me all this,I would definitely vote remain now".

[Ghost Town]

Muphry's?

Yes Muphry's. Check it out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry's_law

[OneTouchFooty]

I haven't shown it, but I've been pretty upset about it since, mainly because I'm embarrassed by somebody I've always respected. In reflection, I've been thinking about the reasons for the outburst, I don't think he is actually a racist and it was a kickback to me being such a smart arse, you know actually doing a bit of research. However the thing that really scares me is the fact that suddenly normal working class people are coming out with such extreme language AND its becoming acceptable. The current UK climate and parallels with Nazi Germany mentioned in this thread are striking, this is how it starts by making racism mainstream and acceptable.

I think it may be time for me to start exploring opportunities abroad if this is a taste of things to come.     

Similar to my parents in way, though they didn’t vote in the Referendum, both are quite gullible and will believe anything they read, so extremely susceptible to media propaganda and the nonsense that goes round on Facebook, I even had to have a word with my mum about sharing a Britain First post last year ffs, a fairly harmless post about dogs but you know the next one will be some bullshit “look what Muslims are doing” post and then a Tommy Wanker video, then you see how easily decent people get sucked into it and eventually go down this far right, conspiracy rabbit hole.

However, I find just talking through basic things with my parents as to why Britain First are terrible shitstains on society and explaining how they operate and other certain media outlets is like a lightbulb moment from them.. “oooh I didn’t really think of it like that you know”

Seeing ordinary, working class folks being duped into lining up behind the interests of billionaire-funded, neo-feudalist types who use bigotry, racism and the “anti-elites” narrative as a Trojan horse for their economic ideological plan is tragic to see.

[eAyeAddio]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10219352059814922&set=a.10200109856211858&type=3&eid=ARACZeGNfMIvJlMtkS3GBX4wfpuFhOmZhBUTvut2etjFKuCDH-ZkHtZ5jMqOtDoew-nkRCVnv2xr-m5O

[PaulF]

Maybe jezza is playing a blinder and duping May into calling an election, at which point to differentiate themselves they become a remain party and campaign hard! Then Harry Kane scores an og hattrick at Anfield.

[Rush 82]

Similar to my parents in way, though they didn’t vote in the Referendum, both are quite gullible and will believe anything they read, so extremely susceptible to media propaganda and the nonsense that goes round on Facebook, I even had to have a word with my mum about sharing a Britain First post last year ffs, a fairly harmless post about dogs but you know the next one will be some bullshit “look what Muslims are doing” post and then a Tommy Wanker video, then you see how easily decent people get sucked into it and eventually go down this far right, conspiracy rabbit hole.

However, I find just talking through basic things with my parents as to why Britain First are terrible shitstains on society and explaining how they operate and other certain media outlets is like a lightbulb moment from them.. “oooh I didn’t really think of it like that you know”

Seeing ordinary, working class folks being duped into lining up behind the interests of billionaire-funded, neo-feudalist types who use bigotry, racism and the “anti-elites” narrative as a Trojan horse for their economic ideological plan is tragic to see.

Honesty used to be a virtue. In these times it seems to be regarded as a quaint anachronism - lies and misdirection are the new currency of choice.

Seems that society as a whole needs some kind of cataclysmic reminder that untruth is not a virtue.

[No666]

There goes the election option.


Election Maps UK
‏ @ElectionMapsUK

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 41% (+5)
CON: 36% (-7)
UKIP: 7% (+2)
LDM: 7% (+1)

Via @DeltapollUK,
Changes w/ 21-23 Feb.

A Tory-UKIP coalition, then.

[Ghost Town]

How serene and peaceful the weekend has seemed. Not sure I'm ready for tomorrow's shenanigans

[24/7]

Yes Muphry's. Check it out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry's_law

Well you learn somethnig new evrey day!

[Zeb]

A Tory-UKIP coalition, then.

Incentive to hold leadership contest some months before a general election intensifies.

Hope Deltapoll release their tables including 'don't knows' this time. Their version including Change might help give some reasons why it would be useful.

CON 32 (-7)
LAB 35 (+4)
LD 7 (+2)
TIG 9 (-2)
GRN 4 (+1)
UKIP 5 (+1)

[rob1966]

Snip     

I haven't spoken to my Dad since June 2016, since he fell out with me for calling him an idiot on FB the morning after the referendum, because, no matter how hard I tried to explain it to him, show him facts (this thread educated me on the good and bad of the EU) and told him he was gambling with his Grandkids futures, he still voted Leave. He wanted an apology and I told him he would be waiting forever for that. He's always been a bit of a tit and a crap Dad, but the way he has gone on about the EU, sharing shit on FB that originated with the far right and buying into it, immigrants and Muslims is embarrassing and he is not the kind of man I want to spend time with or speak to.

Worst thing is, both my Grandads were in the desert rats and fought against the Nazi scum and against the scum who are splitting the UK.

[killer-heels]

Would be interesting to see where any UKIP surge manifests itself in terms of seats. I would imagine UKIP dont put up candidates in very hard brexit constituencies areas. Wonder if Lib Dems dont where a Labour MP is very pro remain?