Author Topic: Graeme Souness  (Read 18805 times)

Offline norecat

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Graeme Souness
« on: February 20, 2020, 12:36:37 pm »
Told a very touching story on the Irish Radio program Off The Ball. It was 1984 and Liverpool we’re playing away in a league match. Souness was late getting on the bus and Joe Fagan gave him loads about it. Souness proceeds to sit down on the bus on his own.  As he sat down someone tipped Fagan off that Souness heard his mother had only a day to live. Fagan proceeded to join Souness down the bus and put his arm around him for the rest of the journey. Souness understandably got very emotional retelling this. Class act from a classy Mr Fagan. These men were hard but they had a heart.

Offline mike777

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2020, 01:24:12 pm »
Joe was as crucial to our success as anyone really; he was the link between the management (especially under Bob) and the players and the player's man in the coaching team/the one to break bad news etc. by all accounts.

I fear he's a largely forgotten figure in our history certainly outside Merseyside but he shouldn't be; absolutely integral part of the Boot Room.

Offline Keith Lard

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2020, 07:08:11 pm »
Joe was as crucial to our success as anyone really; he was the link between the management (especially under Bob) and the players and the player's man in the coaching team/the one to break bad news etc. by all accounts.

I fear he's a largely forgotten figure in our history certainly outside Merseyside but he shouldn't be; absolutely integral part of the Boot Room.

Completely agree!
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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2020, 08:01:42 pm »
Joe was as crucial to our success as anyone really; he was the link between the management (especially under Bob) and the players and the player's man in the coaching team/the one to break bad news etc. by all accounts.

I fear he's a largely forgotten figure in our history certainly outside Merseyside but he shouldn't be; absolutely integral part of the Boot Room.

Smoking Joe was as successful in 1984 as any Liverpool manager has ever been. so his place in our history cannot be denied.

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2020, 08:24:37 pm »
He was one of our own was Joe Fagan.
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Offline norecat

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #5 on: April 1, 2020, 04:21:25 pm »
Does anyone foresee the time when Souness is rehabilitated in the eyes of both the club and supporters? I appreciate he was a disaster as manager and caused untold hurt by selling the story of his heart op. He was though one of the finest players in the history of the club and I'm hoping time allows him to be viewed more favourably.

Offline mattD

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #6 on: April 1, 2020, 04:53:03 pm »
Does anyone foresee the time when Souness is rehabilitated in the eyes of both the club and supporters? I appreciate he was a disaster as manager and caused untold hurt by selling the story of his heart op. He was though one of the finest players in the history of the club and I'm hoping time allows him to be viewed more favourably.

There’s an excellent Graham Hunter podcast from a few years back where he discusses his career. Souness is before my time but he strikes me as a complicated figure for many supporters and a bit of a tragic hero. Hellishly brilliant but incredibly flawed too.

Offline aw1991

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #7 on: April 1, 2020, 04:58:33 pm »
Does anyone foresee the time when Souness is rehabilitated in the eyes of both the club and supporters? I appreciate he was a disaster as manager and caused untold hurt by selling the story of his heart op. He was though one of the finest players in the history of the club and I'm hoping time allows him to be viewed more favourably.
Souness was before my time, but I'm pretty sure most fans still hold him to a high regard. Maybe not as much as he would've been though.

Offline DangerScouse

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #8 on: April 1, 2020, 05:10:25 pm »
https://youtu.be/AWw4JeRU5tM
 
Souness speaks of 'deep regrets' as Liverpool manager in emotional reflection.

« Last Edit: April 1, 2020, 05:12:13 pm by DangerScouse »

Offline RobbieRedman

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #9 on: April 1, 2020, 08:37:14 pm »
forgive and forget

well, maybe not forget but he's alright by me

at least he's no murdoch ass licker like Carra, says what he wants

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #10 on: April 1, 2020, 08:44:02 pm »
The look in his eyes at the end...

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #11 on: April 1, 2020, 08:57:56 pm »
forgive and forget

well, maybe not forget but he's alright by me

at least he's no murdoch ass licker like Carra, says what he wants
someone said when this came up here years ago forgiven not forgotten, I think that’s probably right.

He does genuinely care about the club and I think it does hurt him that his relationship is rather distant with the club when he should really be there more regularly in the directors box like you see kenny and rushie for things like big european nights not on Irish TV, let’s not forget he did have the decency to resign as manager instead of hang on, and although he doesn’t try to shirk responsibility for doing that interview he has mentioned that other players were still speaking to people from the rag which didn’t get as much attention as it should have

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #12 on: April 1, 2020, 09:03:29 pm »
Such a complicated and delicate part of our history.  Even without selling his story he still ripped up a generation's worth of work and it took us decades to recover.  That said, compared to some of the bile spouting bitterness of ex-Reds like Lawro or Murphy, Souness always come across as contrite.  He acknowledges his mistakes, and I don't feel he's ever tried to "rewrite history" to try and paint himself in a better light.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I forgive him.
« Last Edit: April 1, 2020, 09:10:19 pm by Red Berry »
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Offline Stubbins

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #13 on: April 2, 2020, 12:12:45 pm »
Such a complicated and delicate part of our history.  Even without selling his story he still ripped up a generation's worth of work and it took us decades to recover.  That said, compared to some of the bile spouting bitterness of ex-Reds like Lawro or Murphy, Souness always come across as contrite.  He acknowledges his mistakes, and I don't feel he's ever tried to "rewrite history" to try and paint himself in a better light.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I forgive him.

Nicely put.

Also heard that Souness was especially supportive to Ray Kennedy in his fight with Parkinsons. And well away from the glare of publicity in doing so. Clearly there's a softer side to his hard man persona.

He made mistakes. We all do. He's owned up to those and shown contrition. He's a top Red as far as I'm concerned.

Offline WaterfordRed

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #14 on: April 2, 2020, 06:07:05 pm »
Definitely a top Red. 
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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2020, 10:53:36 am »
Nicely put.

Also heard that Souness was especially supportive to Ray Kennedy in his fight with Parkinsons. And well away from the glare of publicity in doing so. Clearly there's a softer side to his hard man persona.
was good mates with dale winton, a celebrity friendship you’d never expect!

Such a complicated and delicate part of our history.  Even without selling his story he still ripped up a generation's worth of work and it took us decades to recover. 
To be fair things did need changing and modernising, he just went about it the wrong way

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2020, 11:07:55 am »
was good mates with dale winton, a celebrity friendship you’d never expect!
To be fair things did need changing and modernising, he just went about it the wrong way

Agreed, i think if he could turn the cluck back he would do things a little bit differently, i felt far too many good & great players were sold in the summer of 92, Ray Houghton being one. We also started getting a load of injuries to key players mostly in training, how many achilles injuries did we have in Souness era, Barnes did his achilles, & he wasn't the same player after that, he admits that himself.
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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2020, 12:59:38 pm »
Agreed, i think if he could turn the cluck back

Never chickened out of a tackle, Souness...
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Offline blacksun

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2020, 06:32:46 pm »
Never chickened out of a tackle, Souness...

Did give away a few fowls though

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2020, 06:36:36 pm »
Oh fuck bloomin typo, now i'm in a fowl mood.  ;)
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Offline Jamesie

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #20 on: May 6, 2020, 09:06:00 am »
Told a very touching story on the Irish Radio program Off The Ball. It was 1984 and Liverpool we’re playing away in a league match. Souness was late getting on the bus and Joe Fagan gave him loads about it. Souness proceeds to sit down on the bus on his own.  As he sat down someone tipped Fagan off that Souness heard his mother had only a day to live. Fagan proceeded to join Souness down the bus and put his arm around him for the rest of the journey. Souness understandably got very emotional retelling this. Class act from a classy Mr Fagan. These men were hard but they had a heart.

Don’t know how to embed the video but the story is here.

https://mobile.twitter.com/offtheball/status/1229559563353042948?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1229559563353042948&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.offtheball.com%2Fsoccer%2Fwatch-graeme-souness-pays-emotional-tribute-joe-fagan-mothers-death-969025

Offline alonsoisared

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2020, 07:25:49 pm »
I can't help feel a little bit sorry for Souness. He clearly loves the club and bitterly regrets what he did with the s*n. You can tell from those couple of interviews that he's still haunted by it.

He was before my time but he's always someone my dad has spoken about and he comes across like such a humble, down to earth bloke. You can see from the coverage over the last week just how much the club means to him. Seeing him raise a glass with thommo and kenny the other night was pretty touching. Really hit home the history that we've got, absolute giants.

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2020, 08:14:12 pm »
I can't help feel a little bit sorry for Souness. He clearly loves the club and bitterly regrets what he did with the s*n. You can tell from those couple of interviews that he's still haunted by it.

He was before my time but he's always someone my dad has spoken about and he comes across like such a humble, down to earth bloke. You can see from the coverage over the last week just how much the club means to him. Seeing him raise a glass with thommo and kenny the other night was pretty touching. Really hit home the history that we've got, absolute giants.

Watching them on Sky the other night brought back so many memories. Don't know what the noises were in Kenny's house though. Sounds like he needs an exorcist.

Who was that young fellah, Carragher or someone, who kept butting in?

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2020, 08:16:28 pm »
The thing which took me by surprise was how emotional Souness was after the title win, its been a while since I have seen him so affected over us to that extent. It was actually good to see.
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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2020, 08:37:37 pm »
He made a mistake, no doubt.  He comes across as a much better red than a lot of our ex-players thats for sure.

In my humble opinion it would be good to see him at the games in a non sky capacity.   
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Offline OsirisMVZ

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2020, 01:25:45 pm »
The thing which took me by surprise was how emotional Souness was after the title win, its been a while since I have seen him so affected over us to that extent. It was actually good to see.

He's looked a lot healthier and even a little younger on TV since the restart which is good to see. He's not quite as miserable a personality as Roy Keane but Graeme definitely used to come off as grumpy watching him on Sky over the years, that cloud has lifted now ;D

Offline Elliemental

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2020, 08:29:40 pm »
I find it staggeringly incomprehensible how a man so deeply connected to LFC as Souness was would screw up so badly as to sell a story to the Scum. The timing of the article on the third (I think?) anniversary of Hillsborough was, I'm certain, all down to that asshat McKenzie and I'm sure he knew exactly what he was doing by running the story on that date. But still, that's not to excuse Souness from selling to them in the first place.

But nor does it cancel out how he speaks so highly of Liverpool and doesn't ever try to get pedantic digs in just to please his employers (like I think Carra does at times). I watched his interview the night we won the league and he was full of pride and love for the club; you could just see it in him.

People are complicated and we all fuck up. Souness clearly still loves LFC and that, for me, is what matters.

Offline Red1976

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2020, 09:13:39 pm »
I find it staggeringly incomprehensible how a man so deeply connected to LFC as Souness was would screw up so badly as to sell a story to the Scum. The timing of the article on the third (I think?) anniversary of Hillsborough was, I'm certain, all down to that asshat McKenzie and I'm sure he knew exactly what he was doing by running the story on that date. But still, that's not to excuse Souness from selling to them in the first place.

But nor does it cancel out how he speaks so highly of Liverpool and doesn't ever try to get pedantic digs in just to please his employers (like I think Carra does at times). I watched his interview the night we won the league and he was full of pride and love for the club; you could just see it in him.

People are complicated and we all fuck up. Souness clearly still loves LFC and that, for me, is what matters.


 If I remember right, Souness gave an interview to a freelance journalist who was a friend of his, who then sold it to the Scum - by then it was out of his control.

 Also I remember when Souness gave one of his first interviews as Liverpool manager (on newsnight or some other BBC late night mid-week programme). In it he stated how the team needed rebuilding and how disappointment he was that Dalglish had left him with a lot of players 30+, players who wanted to leave, and who were not good enough to play for Liverpool. I was struck by how poor he felt the Liverpool team was in 1991. It also never helped when people like Phil Thompson, who was on the coaching staff, slags you off to Man Utd's assistant manager!


Offline Igor Tripod Biscan

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2020, 07:40:40 am »
He's a tory right? He also voted for Brexit. 
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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2020, 08:05:27 am »
Bad news for you, nearly all our players of that era were tories...


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Offline kloppismydad

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2020, 08:28:25 am »
Bad news for you, nearly all our players of that era were tories...

Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of footballers today, including ours, vote Tory.
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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2020, 08:45:44 am »
Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of footballers today, including ours, vote Tory.

So when we're buying players or reviewing the status of the contribution ex players have made to the club their political views are thoroughly assessed by a People's Commission for Politicsl Purity? ;D

Footballers are paid entertainers and it's a bit sad if people expect them to conform to their views or, even worse, listen to the views of anti vaxxers like Le Tissier.

By this token all the BLM work Hamilton has done around Formula One could be undone by his wavering over anti vax.

Footballers are human and, unlike some of the paragons of virtue who post here, make mistakes and hold different views from others. I remember the midfield power house who drove us to FIVE titles.

Offline Elliemental

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2020, 10:01:02 am »


Footballers are paid entertainers and it's a bit sad if people expect them to conform to their views or, even worse, listen to the views of anti vaxxers like Le Tissier.


This. ^^

While I don't expect them to conform to my own views, I do think someone associating with LFC should stay away from the Scum. But who they vote for is entirely down to them. And wasn't Dejan Lovren into all that anti-vax/lizard people nonsense?

But seriously, didn't a fair few of our ex-players also almost end up in jail for tax evasion in their home countries? I know Xabi Alonso was one. As long as their political sensibilities are on the right side of the law, I see no problem with them being slightly right-leaning.

Offline kloppismydad

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #33 on: August 1, 2020, 06:20:48 am »
So when we're buying players or reviewing the status of the contribution ex players have made to the club their political views are thoroughly assessed by a People's Commission for Politicsl Purity? ;D

Footballers are paid entertainers and it's a bit sad if people expect them to conform to their views or, even worse, listen to the views of anti vaxxers like Le Tissier.

By this token all the BLM work Hamilton has done around Formula One could be undone by his wavering over anti vax.

Footballers are human and, unlike some of the paragons of virtue who post here, make mistakes and hold different views from others. I remember the midfield power house who drove us to FIVE titles.

Thank you for further expanding on my point. That's pretty much my train of thought. Some poster above mentioned about Souness' political leanings which I felt was kinda dumb, hence my post.

And to add to Elliemental's post, isn't Alisson a hardcore right-wing nut? I seem to remember him actively promoting Bolsonaro prior to the elections. But all the outrage then has been forgotten now since he's helped us win so many trophies. :D
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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #34 on: August 1, 2020, 02:45:24 pm »
Thank you for further expanding on my point. That's pretty much my train of thought. Some poster above mentioned about Souness' political leanings which I felt was kinda dumb, hence my post.

And to add to Elliemental's post, isn't Alisson a hardcore right-wing nut? I seem to remember him actively promoting Bolsonaro prior to the elections. But all the outrage then has been forgotten now since he's helped us win so many trophies. :D

Might be wrong but think Allison followed and supported some evangelical religious leaders online, who were definitely hardcore right wing nuts who directly endorsed Bolsonaro. Don't know that Allison ever went full Ronaldinho

Offline Elliemental

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #35 on: August 2, 2020, 01:00:00 pm »

And to add to Elliemental's post, isn't Alisson a hardcore right-wing nut? I seem to remember him actively promoting Bolsonaro prior to the elections. But all the outrage then has been forgotten now since he's helped us win so many trophies. :D

Yes, I've heard about this too. The first I read of it was in the comments section of an article in The Guardian, though. So pinch of salt required. Out of grim curiosity I Googled it. I couldn't really find anything definite, just Allison talking in vague generalities about the man. His comments were neither a ringing endorsement or a condemnation. I don't know anything about Alisson endorsing Bolsonaro during the presidential election though.

Offline OsirisMVZ

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #36 on: August 2, 2020, 01:09:26 pm »
Alisson has recently stated he's not going back to Brazil during this 2 week break we've got due to the Covid situation there, so perhaps his views are changing.

All of our heroes, football or another category, probably vote tory. The majority of our players live in Mansions in Cheshire, what makes you think they've got any clue or empathy for the poor inner city folk of Liverpool?

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #37 on: August 2, 2020, 01:32:08 pm »
Alisson has recently stated he's not going back to Brazil during this 2 week break we've got due to the Covid situation there, so perhaps his views are changing.

All of our heroes, football or another category, probably vote tory. The majority of our players live in Mansions in Cheshire, what makes you think they've got any clue or empathy for the poor inner city folk of Liverpool?

Because most of them come from working class backgrounds?

Offline Elliemental

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #38 on: August 2, 2020, 01:54:25 pm »
Alisson has recently stated he's not going back to Brazil during this 2 week break we've got due to the Covid situation there, so perhaps his views are changing.

All of our heroes, football or another category, probably vote tory. The majority of our players live in Mansions in Cheshire, what makes you think they've got any clue or empathy for the poor inner city folk of Liverpool?

I think there's a fundamental difference between supporting Tories and supporting full on fascists, to be honest. But, in all fairness to the team, many of them actually have done a lot of great work to help people in the local area who are struggling. I think I remember reading somewhere that Andy Robertson, in particular, does a lot? It was a while ago now and I forget the details.

Offline kloppismydad

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Re: Graeme Souness
« Reply #39 on: August 3, 2020, 09:15:31 am »
It's fair to say that Robbo is most likely not Tory. You can tell from his comments, the work he does for charity and you can generally tell from his responses in various interviews that he has not forgotten his roots.

I guess Milner is another one who could be non-Tory.

Def Tory in our team? Jordan Henderson. ;D
Mark my words. Top 8 will be a massive struggle.
We won't make any big signings this season and we will go back to being a top4 club.