Topic: Climate Emergency is already here. How much worse it gets is still up to us (?)

[A-Bomb]

There is off course British aspargus, but like most foods, it is seasonal. I'm old enough to have grown ip with more seasonal food, and I still find it weird when people eat strawberries in winter, or things like that. To eat more local, we would need to eat more seasonal again. (Within reason I think, I wouldn't fancy living of preserves from December to April, for example).

Yep my old man had a fruit cage when I was young - he would harvest his crop and freeze some for the winter months if he wanted to make a fruit dessert for example.

[thejbs]

I’ve grown plenty of delicious garlic in Ireland but unfortunately couldn’t grow any this past year because of garden work getting done.

My local Tesco have garlic from fucking China on our shelves as the only option. Pre-Brexit it came from Spain. Luckily Dunnes (Irish supermarket) sells Irish garlic alongside others from Spain.

[Indomitable_Carp]

I’ve grown plenty of delicious garlic in Ireland but unfortunately couldn’t grow any this past year because of garden work getting done.

My local Tesco have garlic from fucking China on our shelves as the only option. Pre-Brexit it came from Spain. Luckily Dunnes (Irish supermarket) sells Irish garlic alongside others from Spain.

This is what I don't understand. How the fuck can we not grow our own garlic? Likewise mushrooms. When I was living in the UK they were coming from Poland. Why?! What sort of rainy damp island can't grow mushrooms?!

[reddebs]

This is what I don't understand. How the fuck can we not grow our own garlic? Likewise mushrooms. When I was living in the UK they were coming from Poland. Why?! What sort of rainy damp island can't grow mushrooms?!

I've grown mushrooms years ago but you need somewhere dark not just damp.

[Elmo!]

This is what I don't understand. How the fuck can we not grow our own garlic? Likewise mushrooms. When I was living in the UK they were coming from Poland. Why?! What sort of rainy damp island can't grow mushrooms?!

I imagine it's just the labour costs for picking and processing it. I'm sure I read somewhere about 90% if the worlds garlic is grown in China.

[Machae]

Yup, David Attenborough;

“All of our environmental problems become easier to solve with fewer people, and harder – and ultimately impossible – to solve with ever more people.”

It's very simple to me, a smaller population can enjoy more quantities of the things we enjoy, a larger population will have to sacrifice and ration. I know which quality of life I'd prefer.

Having children seems to be a taboo subject, instead it's we need to stop doing x,y,z - rather than - you need to stop reproducing... reproduction and the volumes of it seem to be an entitlement, a given right. I find it incredibly selfish - in our current climate.

I have no children, I will not have children as there are excessive amounts of reproduction on the planet as it is, the decision to have children is entirely a selfish one "i'd like to have a child".....I have two step children.

That's very nice of him. Flown the world for a good chunk of his career, almost 800 times around the world with approx 2 million miles recorded

[Indomitable_Carp]

I've grown mushrooms years ago but you need somewhere dark not just damp.

I reckon we could probably sort that and all....

I imagine it's just the labour costs for picking and processing it. I'm sure I read somewhere about 90% if the worlds garlic is grown in China.

That is probably correct. Yet living in mainland Europe, most places don't have the same dependence on imported food. I can't imagine labour costs being that much different.

Regarding the garlic, I've not heard that before. Mad if true.

[thejbs]

The Irish garlic I’ve bought hasn’t been significantly more expensive or anything. I’m sure some of that labour cost is offset by having to ship it halfway across the globe.

I do remember googling it before after being shocked that Tesco were stocking Chinese garlic. I think it’s more like 80% but they actually export less than India who only produce a fraction of the amount.

[GreatEx]

That's very nice of him. Flown the world for a good chunk of his career, almost 800 times around the world with approx 2 million miles recorded

Sorry for the offence this will cause, but that's the kind of trite gotcha logic I'd expect from a right wing culture warrior. Like, a politician could travel to an international conference and secure an agreement from China and India to stop using fossil fuels, and some bright spark would say "ah, but he used a private jet to and from the conference, hypocrisy much??"

 DA has done more than anyone in raising awareness and appreciation of our natural world, I think we can forgive him a large individual footprint for all the good he's done.

[Machae]

Sorry for the offence this will cause, but that's the kind of trite gotcha logic I'd expect from a right wing culture warrior. Like, a politician could travel to an international conference and secure an agreement from China and India to stop using fossil fuels, and some bright spark would say "ah, but he used a private jet to and from the conference, hypocrisy much??"

 DA has done more than anyone in raising awareness and appreciation of our natural world, I think we can forgive him a large individual footprint for all the good he's done.

DA is a good egg and i love his work, but its more nuanced than having less children, the world will be better off. Who is the "we" he is referring to? The West? People have kids for various reasons, however that being said, im pretty sure births in the west and parts of Asia (Korea and Japan) are already in decline, entering the point of no return i.e not enough births to look after an ever aging population.

https://thediplomat.com/2023/01/japans-population-crisis-nears-point-of-no-return/

The motivation elsewhere, especially in the 3rd world and in developing countries are different, they need additional children to continue their way of life (also taking into account high infant mortality rates), to look after the family and provide for the community.

https://www.compassion.com.au/blog/why-do-the-poor-have-large-families

DAs comments, whilst well intentioned and may have merits, wouldn't be as palatable to people who's very livelihood demands on increasing population (much like the West telling less well off Countries to be more carbon neutral). Of course we can forgive DA and hes done a lot of good, but hes also responsible for a massive carbon footprint himself (and it's not just him is it, its a massive film crew and equipment to cargo). I'm sure if he were given the chance to do it again, he would do things very differently, no doubt about that.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Sorry for the offence this will cause, but that's the kind of trite gotcha logic I'd expect from a right wing culture warrior. Like, a politician could travel to an international conference and secure an agreement from China and India to stop using fossil fuels, and some bright spark would say "ah, but he used a private jet to and from the conference, hypocrisy much??"

 DA has done more than anyone in raising awareness and appreciation of our natural world, I think we can forgive him a large individual footprint for all the good he's done.

This.

It is not as though David Attenborough is flying around the world 800 times for his holidays. Further, much or the majority of these miles will have been racked up when the problem with green house gas emissions were less well understood. Frankly, Joe Blogs flying to Paris for a getaway weekend is far less defensible than Attenborough flying to make documentaries and promoting the problems of climate change.

[GreatEx]

Had my first soy milk cappuccino today, it was good, better than oat by far, maybe even better than cow, which can be a bit sickly in weaker coffees. Had an earthy tone that matches what I like in a coffee. This was at a cafe I don't particularly rate, so I'll have to experiment at one of my favoured haunts, but early signs are good.

[24/7]

Had my first soy milk cappuccino today, it was good, better than oat by far, maybe even better than cow, which can be a bit sickly in weaker coffees. Had an earthy tone that matches what I like in a coffee. This was at a cafe I don't particularly rate, so I'll have to experiment at one of my favoured haunts, but early signs are good.

Even a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step

[GreatEx]

First bowl of cereal with oat milk. One mouthful to adjust, one to enjoy. Easy as expected.

[24/7]

First bowl of cereal with oat milk. One mouthful to adjust, one to enjoy. Easy as expected.

Take a large mug, half fill with Oatly or Friendly Vikings chocolate drink, other half with Alpro vanilla drink, heat in a pan, stir, pour, devour. With digestives dipped in. Lush. If you can find the vegan version of Dumle by Fazer, that's even more awesome when heated 💚

[GreatEx]

Apart from digestives I've never heard of any of those things, they probably don't exist here .

The morning cappuccino and cereal are the only times I consume milk, I've never been a big fan, hence the easy wins.

[thejbs]

First bowl of cereal with oat milk. One mouthful to adjust, one to enjoy. Easy as expected.

I take oat milk with cereal, but I can’t abide it in tea. I’ve tried it for month long stints and just can’t adjust.

[24/7]

Apart from digestives I've never heard of any of those things, they probably don't exist here .

The morning cappuccino and cereal are the only times I consume milk, I've never been a big fan, hence the easy wins.

Try Tesco for the first two. Aldi or Lidl might have the 3rd

[Jiminy Cricket]

I've mentioned this before here, but soy milk is as nutritious as real milk, and is much cheaper and more nutritious than all the other alternatives to real milk. I don't like it in my tea, but it is great with cereal. I pay 0.85 euro for a litre from around the corner (might be even cheaper at a proper supermarket). From the same store, I am now paying 3.62 euro for a litre of real milk! Soy milk (in the round) is probably the most green of all 'milks' too.

[BarryCrocker]

I've mentioned this before here, but soy milk is as nutritious as real milk, and is much cheaper and more nutritious than all the other alternatives to real milk. I don't like it in my tea, but it is great with cereal. I pay 0.85 euro for a litre from around the corner (might be even cheaper at a proper supermarket). From the same store, I am now paying 3.62 euro for a litre of real milk! Soy milk (in the round) is probably the most green of all 'milks' too.

Seriously €3.62 for 1L? Is it some sort of special milk? Jersey/A2/Organic?

[Jiminy Cricket]

Seriously €3.62 for 1L? Is it some sort of special milk? Jersey/A2/Organic?

The price has generally shot up recently, but much more at the chain of mini-supermarkets.. I don't know what's going on there. And long-life is much more popular than fresh milk here, so there is that too. But even accounting for local effects, soy milk is much cheaper everywhere.

[BarryCrocker]

The price has generally shot up recently, but much more at the chain of mini-supermarkets.. I don't know what's going on there. And long-life is much more popular than fresh milk here, so there is that too. But even accounting for local effects, soy milk is much cheaper everywhere.

Down here in Oz a bottle of biodynamic organic full cream milk is $3.60 (€2.30) the leading soy milk brand Bonsoy is $4.80 (€3.20)

Basic supermarket products are both $1.60 (€1.04).

[GreatEx]

I'm in Oz too, i haven't checked supermarket prices yet (wife bought the oat for me) but in most cafes they charge 50c extra for milk alternatives, which sucks.

[Andy82lfc]

Funny as I had a similar experience when first dropping cows milk. Didn’t like Oat I found soy to be the closest resemblance to what I was used to.

However after some months of not having cows milk I started to try oat again and found it was a lot more tasty. Years on from dropping cows milk soy to me is fine but tastes a lot more bland. Oat barrista versions for me have a really creamy taste and a lot more flavour to them than I ever remember milk having.

Like anything in life we all get used to different things some of which we don’t like at first, olives, beer, etc. Other obvious benefit is cholesterol lowering without cows milk too which can be a big difference over times considering it’s something most consume every single day.

[BarryCrocker]

I'm in Oz too, i haven't checked supermarket prices yet (wife bought the oat for me) but in most cafes they charge 50c extra for milk alternatives, which sucks.

It doesn't really suck. It does actually cost more. A litre of milk in a cafe costs about $1:50 while a litre of cafe quality alternate (Bonsoy/Happy Happy Soy Boy/Oatly/Minor Figures) is about $3.80. On average you get 5 x 8oz coffees from 1 litre of milk/soy/oat. So that's 30c for dairy and 76c for alternate milk. For a 12oz coffee with alternate milk you should be charged more than 50c extra.

[GreatEx]

Understood, but the price of cow's milk in this country has been artificially deflated by supermarket milk wars, to the detriment of dairy farmers as well as the environment.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Down here in Oz a bottle of biodynamic organic full cream milk is $3.60 (€2.30) the leading soy milk brand Bonsoy is $4.80 (€3.20)

Basic supermarket products are both $1.60 (€1.04).

The soy milk I buy is the supermarket's own brand - I can pay a lot more. When I looked at the ingredients for the different brands, they were almost identical. And as GreatEx mentions, the price of fresh milk in Australia (and UK) are often artificially deflated and sold as a loss leader. Given that so little fresh milk is consumed here, this is not a factor. I assume prices all kinds of milk here generally reflect their true cost of production.

[thejbs]

You can easily make your own oat milk. It’s just blended oats and water that has been strained.

[Nobby Reserve]

I'm thinking that the climate welfare of the planet depends on a bit more than swapping cow's milk for some plant-based stuff.

 

[Jiminy Cricket]

I'm thinking that the climate welfare of the planet depends on a bit more than swapping cow's milk for some plant-based stuff.

 

Obviously, it is a lot of small (and not so small) things added together which will make a meaningful difference. But doing nothing and waiting for other people to do it first is not the answer, as this would mean continuation of the status quo. Should we carry on regardless and wait for total collapse of the world ecosystem, the collapse of scores of nation states, mass starvation, and a new World War which will make previous ones seem like a spat between a couple of neighbours?

[Nobby Reserve]

Welsh Assembly puts a block on all new major road building schemes, citing environmental concerns.

Some projects have been allowed to proceed, but all these are in the south of the country, whilst all in the north have been blocked. It's furthered accusations of a South Wales-favouring Assembly.

There's been widespread anger amongst both residents and the business community. Several of the schemes were bypasses for villages than can become choked with traffic. Amongst the larger schemes were a third Menai crossing, improvements to the A5, and the Deeside bypass.

It all seems very short-sighted to me. Most of the schemes were to reduce congestion hot-spots where, at busy times (like tourist peaks) hundreds/thousands of cars are sat there with idling engines, or moving only stop-start. That's massively increases pollution & GHG levels above that produced by cars proceeding smoothly at 50-70mph.

In addition, most of these new roads would only be constructed by the late 2020's/early 2030's, when a greater proportion of cars will be EV's/hybrids anyway.

It smacks of virtue-signalling (anti-car zealots have praised the decision)


Edit: better put a link in    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/kick-teeth-north-wales-furious-26238155

[GreatEx]

Can't your 2030 EV argument be applied to the idling engines, though? The environmental impact of new roads is not limited to the emissions of the vehicles that use them. Captain Obvious reporting for duty!

[reddebs]

I wonder how many entire countries will disappear with a half metre rise in sea levels. 

I know a lot of the small Indian and Pacific ocean islands would go and an awful lot of the UK too.

BBC News - Vast glacier at mercy of sea warmth increases
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64640796

[Red-Soldier]

I wonder how many entire countries will disappear with a half metre rise in sea levels. 

I know a lot of the small Indian and Pacific ocean islands would go and an awful lot of the UK too.

BBC News - Vast glacier at mercy of sea warmth increases
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64640796

Many Indian and Pacific Islands are already in trouble and will disappear within the next decade or so.

Cornwall is predicted to be underwater by 2100, and other areas of the country too.

The majority of the global population live cities and many of those cities are situated by the coast.

[Bioluminescence]

This report gives a blunt assessment of where we're are. It doesn't make for pleasant reading but it does give clear guidance so that we can avoid the worst of the climate crisis. Good to see nativism mentioned - the far right are increasingly capitalising on crises and anger and pushing conspiracy theories such as the Great Reset and Great Replacement theory.

[thejbs]

Many Indian and Pacific Islands are already in trouble and will disappear within the next decade or so.

Cornwall is predicted to be underwater by 2100, and other areas of the country too.

The majority of the global population live cities and many of those cities are situated by the coast.

From my cycle route, I see Belfast has built new flood defences along the river Lagan. It’s an expensive looking job and one that’s definitely not aimed at the here and now - that area rarely used to flood.

Ironically, since they removed trees and hedging to facilitate the flood barrier, there’s actually been more flooding/groundwater.

[Nobby Reserve]

Cornwall is predicted to be underwater by 2100, and other areas of the country too.

 

No it isn't.

The sea level rises, and the catastrophic impacts that can/will bring globally, are frightening enough without throwing untruths in, which just allow deniers an attack-line.

If ALL the ice on the planet melted (and even the most grave forecasts put that centuries away, even with positive-feedback mechanisms that can turbocharge climate change), then sea levels would rise by 60-70m

That would put c10% of Cornwall under water.


Per NASA's 'Earth Observatory', if global emissions can be stabilised by 2100, then sea level rises by the year 2300 are estimated to be around 1.5m (spread 1.1m to 2.1m).

Their 'worst case' of continuing high GHG emissions continuing to 2100 would have sea level rises around 3.7m (spread 2.4m to 5.3m) by 2300

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/148494/anticipating-future-sea-levels

[Mister Flip Flop]

You can only laugh really. The leader of the Green party here in Ireland a junior partner in government is jetting off around the world for Saint Paddy's day in first class to "promote Ireland" I think something like 85% of all TD's here head off somewhere on Paddy's day. It's very hard to get people onside when you yourself don't give a shit.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/eamon-ryans-st-patricks-day-trip-will-exceed-the-annual-emissions-of-the-average-irish-car-42346239.html

[ianburns252]

Wasn't sure where to put this but seeing as I've seen climate change and 15 minute towns linked heavily due to the ULEZ changes down in London I figured this would fit here.

An interesting write up from Liverpool Uni about them and the conspiracy theories around them.

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/02/20/15-minute-cities-how-to-separate-the-reality-from-the-conspiracy-theory/

[Bioluminescence]

Wasn't sure where to put this but seeing as I've seen climate change and 15 minute towns linked heavily due to the ULEZ changes down in London I figured this would fit here.

An interesting write up from Liverpool Uni about them and the conspiracy theories around them.

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/02/20/15-minute-cities-how-to-separate-the-reality-from-the-conspiracy-theory/

I read this article on the topic a few days ago. It seems to have escalated into a full-blown conspiracy theory very quickly - one minute I was reading about 15-minute cities (which sound like a great idea on paper) and the next I was reading that people were warning that councils would decide who's worthy of the freedom to leave their zones. As always familiar names are pushing this conspiracy theory, and familiar names appear during protests in the form of wanted posters (Bill Gates, Anthony Fauci) or defaced images.