Topic: (American) College Football

[JackBauer]

Ohio State climbs to #1 in the rankings but the schedule has been pretty generous so far. The next few games should tell us how good a team we are.

[Brigor Cheyaore]

Nothing beats the SEC except the PAC 10 whenever there is a game between the conferences.

fixed it for you

Go Ducks!

[PortlandRed]

fixed it for you

Go Ducks!

YES!

[JackBauer]

Ohio State dispatches Michigan State 24-17. The scoreline was generous to MSU as their two touchdowns were scored on defense after bonehead turnovers by Ohio State. Brilliant performance by Beanie Wells who rushed for over 200 yards and a touchdown. Still #1 then but next week in State College PA is going to be tough.

[Angelius]

is it ok if i support UCLA in here

we beat CAL woo hoo

[Frog]

is it ok if i support UCLA in here

we beat CAL woo hoo

There's no problem supporting UCLA. I support the University of Washington, that doesn't mean I can't talk about what's happening.

I was really hoping that South Florida would go undefeated just to throw a monkey wrench into the works of the BCS.

[Brigor Cheyaore]

There's no problem supporting UCLA. I support the University of Washington, that doesn't mean I can't talk about what's happening.

Huck the Fuskies!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M43abqKYUAw

[PortlandRed]

Go Ducks!

Oregon up to 5th in the BCS (Bunch of Computer Shit) standings.  With the HUGE game this weekend against USC, they could move up even further.

[ALPH1217]

It's now official  .  .  Notre Dame are completely unwatchable.

[Angelius]

It's now official  .  .  Notre Dame are completely unwatchable.

except against us. they have the worst run defense in the league, but no, we have to make our fourth string quarter back throw the ball. or wait, *try* to throw the ball. gaaah, that result really, really pissed me off. although, i must admit, beating the bears did help a little

washington state next. we should win comfortably. so we're losing definitely. lol, there is a trend people. first utah, then notre dame and next washington. gaah.

[JackBauer]

next week in State College PA is going to be tough.

Shows what I know. A night game in Happy Valley was supposed to give the Buckeyes all sorts of problems and finally show up the supposedly weak offense, but instead Ohio State went through the whole game without having to punt once and crushed Penn State 37-17. Pleasingly, Boeckman appears to be maturing nicely.

[nyctex]

Texas derby today

University of Texas Longhorns vs Texas A&M Aggies

beat the crap outta A&M

The Eyes of Texas are upon you   

 

[Frog]

#1 went down today.

LSU was beaten in three OT's by Arkansas.

Kinda sad that the Longhorns couldn't win either of their two rivalry games.

[Angelius]

and not to mention, A&M won. what're your thoughts nyctex? i watched the 4th quarter and texas nearly pulled that back. i think it changed when they missed the conversion, and that fumble on 2nd down. A&M had to just run the clock down after that.

[Dread Breath]

#1 went down today.

LSU was beaten in three OT's by Arkansas.

Kinda sad that the Longhorns couldn't win either of their two rivalry games.

Run DMC.

[Dread Breath]

Great game by the way....what an exhibition for football at the college level. 3 OT's and edge of your seat stuff.

As I said, Run DMC!!

[JackBauer]

Jesus, what a game.

Even if LSU had won, I wonder whether they'd have kept the #1 spot - how can the best team in the country give up 50 points at home?

My Buckeyes are still in with a shout, then, albeit a slim one.

[Frog]

Jesus, what a game.

Even if LSU had won, I wonder whether they'd have kept the #1 spot - how can the best team in the country give up 50 points at home?

My Buckeyes are still in with a shout, then, albeit a slim one.

It really depends on what happens in the Big 12 title game. Mizzou still has to beat Oklahoma to get in. West Virginia still has another game as well, so they can still blow it, too.

Crazy, crazy season.

12 times a top 5 team lost to an unranked opponent.

3 times the number one team went down and twice it was LSU in triple overtime.

[Dread Breath]

It really depends on what happens in the Big 12 title game. Mizzou still has to beat Oklahoma to get in. West Virginia still has another game as well, so they can still blow it, too.

Crazy, crazy season.

12 times a top 5 team lost to an unranked opponent.

3 times the number one team went down and twice it was LSU in triple overtime.

Yep. Hope the Bowl games follow the trend of the rest of the season.

There isn't that much talent at the Senior level this season, which has contributed to some of the results, lots of no-names matching it with 'name' players who just aren't all that talented.

[JackBauer]

There isn't that much talent at the Senior level this season, which has contributed to some of the results, lots of no-names matching it with 'name' players who just aren't all that talented.

Like Mike Hart, who went 0-4 against Ohio State during his career?

Need a win for Oklahoma in the Big 12 title game; that would probably do it for us I think.

[nyctex]

A&M played well.  They ripped up their playbook and really confused us.  Who knew their quarterback could pass the ball?  We nearly pulled it out, but it was never going to happen.  That missed extra point was the nail in the coffin.

Anyway, losses the Oklahoma and A&M makes for a failure of a season.

I'm actually looking forward to a Mizzou/W Virginia Campionship game, and will of course be pulling for Mizzou (assuming they can beat OK in the Big 12 championship game)

[JackBauer]

I'm actually looking forward to a Mizzou/W Virginia Campionship game, and will of course be pulling for Mizzou (assuming they can beat OK in the Big 12 championship game)

Won't happen now! Ohio State v someone else...

[LFC_Penguin]

Ohio State v Louisiana State, where hopefully #2 will lose one more time...

[Dread Breath]

Ohio State beneficiaries of the bizarre BCS system and a vanilla schedule.

They really will have to move to a playoff style system; this voting caper leaves a lot to be desired.

Most interesting matchup will be Hawaii/Georgia in the Sugar Bowl....we'll see if Colt Brennan actually has 'it' or not.

[JackBauer]

Ohio State beneficiaries of the bizarre BCS system and a vanilla schedule.

I have to take issue with this because it appears that Ohio State cannot win here.

During the season pundits and fans of opposing teams alike could not wait to predict where we would slip up. First it was Purdue's basketball on grass offense which was going to rip us apart. Then it was a night game at Penn State in a loud Beaver Stadium where we lost in 2005. Then it was the Wisconsin Badgers, against whom Jim Tressel had never won at home. OK, the home defeat against Illinois was very damaging. But we turned around and wore down a Michigan team desperate to beat us into the ground in the Big House.

I have sympathy with your main point of the BCS system being a mess, but the cheap jibes about Ohio State's supposedly easy schedule are getting a little tiresome.

[Dread Breath]

I have to take issue with this because it appears that Ohio State cannot win here.

During the season pundits and fans of opposing teams alike could not wait to predict where we would slip up. First it was Purdue's basketball on grass offense which was going to rip us apart. Then it was a night game at Penn State in a loud Beaver Stadium where we lost in 2005. Then it was the Wisconsin Badgers, against whom Jim Tressel had never won at home. OK, the home defeat against Illinois was very damaging. But we turned around and wore down a Michigan team desperate to beat us into the ground in the Big House.

I have sympathy with your main point of the BCS system being a mess, but the cheap jibes about Ohio State's supposedly easy schedule are getting a little tiresome.

Hey, first time I've brought it up.....but then you have commentators on ESPN claiming that 'Ohio State and LSU are obviously the two most talented teams in the country." Which is clearly bullshit.

Good luck to Ohio; all they can do is play the games set for them - it isn't their fault the BCS is crocked. There have been other teams in the past who have been beneficiaries of the BCS system; this year it's the Buckeyes.

[JackBauer]

Sorry, wasn't having a go at you in particular, but I've seen plenty of other lazy dismissals of Ohio State's schedule as being too easy.

On other forums I have also seen gleeful predictions from LSU fans of a blowout. I don't want to say too much in response to that except that I'd be surprised if a Jim Tressel team were to let that happen again.

[Dread Breath]

I think the line for LSU is - 9, but with the way this season has gone it wouldn't surprise if Ohio won it.

[nyctex]

crazy end to a season that's already had enough twists and turns.

Texas will play AZ State in the Holiday Bowl in San Diego.  We're making it a habit of going to Southern Cal.  Think Texas will be on the losing end of this one.  ASU only lost to USC and Oregon. 

It will be a very disappointing season.  Losses to OK and A&M with a bowl loss.  Not good enough.


OSU really benefited this year by not having to play a Big10 championship game.

[jason42]

I have really gotten into College Football since getting NASN on Setanta. Don't really have a team as yet but I do like watching LSU, BC and Hawaii.

Not sure how the BCS system works (does anyone??) but I am looking forward to the Championship game between LSU & Ohio State. Also looking forward to the other Bowl games.

How many of these 'star' players - Dixon, White, Dorsey, Flynn, McFadden et al will end up in the NFL?

[jiky]

gig em aggies!!!

hulabaloo caneck caneck

damn i hated those games

[JackBauer]

How many of these 'star' players - Dixon, White, Dorsey, Flynn, McFadden et al will end up in the NFL?

Dorsey & McFadden for sure, they'll be top 5 picks in the 2008 draft.

Flynn isn't even rated by his own fans.

[LFC_Penguin]

I'm going to be watching for the Hawaii Haka in the Sugar Bowl. I'm sure it'll be a hit with the fans...

If Notre Dame would grow a set and join a conference, and by geography and reputation it should be the Big Ten and NOT the Big Least, then the Big Ten could get to the magic number of 12 it takes to host a conference championship. But then again, reports have it that it is the Big Ten commissioner who is holding up any progress away from the BCS, away from stupid polls, and towards a playoff--and the Rose Bowl isn't helping matters either.

I like American college football a hell of a lot more than the NFL, but it's crap like the BCS and the bowl system that made me choose European football as my primary sport to watch and care about. At least in UEFA competitions, the coefficient system makes sense AND every game matters for every club for 5 years. It makes me laugh when I see reports on the BBC site about Tottenham being "denied" a top seed for UEFA Cup or Mourinho's whining about not being a top seed after Chelsea won the League or Domenech's constant bitching about France being in Pot 4. All of them would have an absolute fit if they were subjected to the BCS system.

[Dread Breath]

I have really gotten into College Football since getting NASN on Setanta. Don't really have a team as yet but I do like watching LSU, BC and Hawaii.

Not sure how the BCS system works (does anyone??) but I am looking forward to the Championship game between LSU & Ohio State. Also looking forward to the other Bowl games.

How many of these 'star' players - Dixon, White, Dorsey, Flynn, McFadden et al will end up in the NFL?

The NFL scouts are looking for players whose talent 'translates' well to the next level, of the ones you've listed, Jack B has it right, McFadden and Dorsey will be certain to be playing come opening day in the 08/09 NFL season, barring injury.

There are many players who excel at college but will never be pros at the next level. For example, in college a QB can get away with being a little short, but in the NFL you will get shown up for it. Troy Smith won the Heisman last year for the best college player in the country, yet was picked up on the second day of the NFL draft in the 5th round (which is very late for a Heisman winner). He was the best player in college in the year previous but is barely a 3rd string QB at the next level.

Another good example is Reggie Bush from the '06 draft, who was one of the best college players in history....he also won a Heisman and though he went no. 2 overall in the draft is struggling at the next level compared to his college career. Again, he is too small.

[Dread Breath]

I'm going to be watching for the Hawaii Haka in the Sugar Bowl. I'm sure it'll be a hit with the fans...

If Notre Dame would grow a set and join a conference, and by geography and reputation it should be the Big Ten and NOT the Big Least, then the Big Ten could get to the magic number of 12 it takes to host a conference championship. But then again, reports have it that it is the Big Ten commissioner who is holding up any progress away from the BCS, away from stupid polls, and towards a playoff--and the Rose Bowl isn't helping matters either.

I like American college football a hell of a lot more than the NFL, but it's crap like the BCS and the bowl system that made me choose European football as my primary sport to watch and care about. At least in UEFA competitions, the coefficient system makes sense AND every game matters for every club for 5 years. It makes me laugh when I see reports on the BBC site about Tottenham being "denied" a top seed for UEFA Cup or Mourinho's whining about not being a top seed after Chelsea won the League or Domenech's constant bitching about France being in Pot 4. All of them would have an absolute fit if they were subjected to the BCS system.

This season has certainly shown up the BCS system for just how crap it is....hopefully change is on the way.

[Tom_B]

Run DMC really is special aint he. Could be the next Peterson.

[Dread Breath]

Run DMC really is special aint he. Could be the next Peterson.

Probably the only player in the entire draft who drafts out as 'elite'......other players like Dorsey are close to that, but not quite.

Could be the two best tailbacks in a couple of decades come along within 2 years of each other, Peterson and McFadden, and that even takes into consideration Ladanian Tomlinson.

Wouldn't be surprised if a team traded up to get him, as it is the Pats look likely to pick him up and add to their already outstanding offensive squad.

[nyctex]

interesting article in today's Wall Street Journal on the Heisman winners and the NFL

Heisman Is No Key to NFL Glory
Why do so few winners make it in the pros?

BY ALLEN BARRA
Thursday, December 6, 2007 12:01 a.m.

University of Florida sophomore quarterback Tim Tebow is the odds-on favorite to win the 2007 Heisman Trophy this Saturday as the nation's outstanding college football player. Since the colleges serve as a farm system for the National Football League and Mr. Tebow is the best player in college, he should be a cinch to make it in the pros, right?
Not according to history. In the modern era of the NFL, only a handful of Heisman Trophy winners have enjoyed genuine success in the pro ranks. Consider the following:

• In the past half-century, scarcely one in five Heisman winners has become a major pro-football star. Of the past 50, only four--O.J. Simpson, Earl Campbell, Marcus Allen and Barry Sanders--have gone on to be voted the NFL Most Valuable Player by the Associated Press.

• Only seven of the past 50 Heisman Trophy winners--Roger Staubach, Mike Garrett, Jim Plunkett, Tony Dorsett, George Rogers, Marcus Allen and Desmond Howard--have been starters on Super Bowl-winning teams.

• Three of the past seven Heisman winners--Chris Weinke (2000), Eric Crouch (2001) and Jason White (2003)--are no longer even playing with the NFL. Last year's winner, Troy Smith, who won by the widest margin of any player in Heisman history, is on the roster of the Baltimore Ravens this season but has not yet thrown a pass.

• The last Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback to win a Super Bowl ring was Jim Plunkett in 1981, playing for the Oakland Raiders.

Some feel the reason Heisman winners seldom make it in the pros is simple: The voters didn't pick the best player in the first place. For instance, Jim Brown, by consensus the greatest running back in NFL history, was a three-time league MVP but didn't win the Heisman in college. Neither did such all-time greats as Johnny Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, Walter Payton, Lawrence Taylor, John Elway, Joe Montana and Peyton Manning.

Michael David Smith of Pro Football Prospectus thinks that the failure of most Heisman winners to make it in the pros can be attributed to some basic differences between the college and pro games. "In college football, there's so many different schemes, from the option to the run and shoot, that an incomplete football player can thrive in the right college system. The right college offense can hide a player's flaws, but in the NFL those flaws will be exposed."
Bill Walsh, a college coach for Stanford University and the San Francisco 49ers in the NFL, felt it was often a question of maturity. "Joe Montana won four Super Bowls for us," he told me in a 2003 interview, four years before his death, "but I don't know that he was really the best quarterback in the country coming out of college. I thought he had the potential to become the best."

But many top college players, including some recent Heisman winners, don't have the luck to be drafted by teams that can give them a fair chance to develop. "Football," says Bob Boyles, author of "Fifty Years of College Football," "is the ultimate team-oriented game where a quarterback can't become a star passer without receivers streaking into the open and catching the ball while unsung linemen mount great pass protection."

An example, says Mr. Boyles, is Matt Leinart, the University of Southern California's 2004 Heisman winner, who was considered a can't-miss prospect when he was drafted by Arizona. The difference in the talent level between the USC Trojans and the Arizona Cardinals must have come as a shock to Mr. Leinart. In college he was surrounded by All-American caliber linemen and playing the same backfield with such pro prospects as running backs LenDale White (now with the Tennessee Titans) and Reggie Bush (himself a Heisman winner, now with the New Orleans Saints). At Arizona, Mr. Leinart's supporting cast has been far less imposing; quarterbacking for the Cardinals, Mr. Boyles notes, Mr. Leinart "is sometimes hit more times in a single game than he was in an entire season at Southern Cal." (This season he has been on the injured reserve list since Oct. 10.)

Reggie Bush is experiencing a similar fate with the New Orleans Saints. In 2005, at USC, Mr. Bush had what is regarded as one of the most remarkable seasons in college football history, averaging 8.9 yards per carry. So far in two years with the Saints he has averaged just 3.7. (After 12 games, the Saints are just 5-7.)

Then there are some Heisman winners who perform well despite the teams they're drafted onto but don't get the recognition they deserve. Mr. Walsh noted that Tim Brown, the 1987 Trophy winner, "played 16 years for a Raiders team which only won a dozen games more than they lost. Yet he's second on the all-time list for receiving yards. If he'd have been lucky enough to be drafted by a team with great passers like Joe Montana and Steve Young, who's to say he couldn't have surpassed Jerry Rice [the all-time leader]?"
For some students of the college game, though, the question of why Heisman winners don't have much success in the pros is beside the point. Let's give the final word to legendary college-football writer Dan Jenkins, who says: "The Heisman shouldn't have anything to do with the NFL. It should be awarded strictly on a guy's performance as a collegian. It's not like a player should have to justify his Heisman by becoming a pro star."

Mr. Barra writes about sports for The Wall Street Journal.


Copyright © 2007 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved

http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110010951

[jason42]

Didn't Herschel Walker win the Heisman Trophy? I'm sure the pundits were saying he could have won it in any of his college years.

[nyctex]

Didn't Herschel Walker win the Heisman Trophy? I'm sure the pundits were saying he could have won it in any of his college years.

He did win the Heisman.  I think his convoluted career counts against him.  Walker first played in the USFL ( the break away league from the NFL) after college.  He then played for a poor Cowboys team and was traded to the Vikings in one of the most lopsided trades of all time.  Dallas got IIR 6 players and 5 draft picks that allowed them to build a great team in the 1990's.  Vikings got really nothing from Herschel as far as performance.

He was one of the greatest college running backs and had some great professional years, but the USFL #s are really garbage yards