Topic: Liverpool's Midfield

[Yiannis]

I'll watch the game back in the following days but I also thought watching it live that our second half performance was pretty good and not just an improvement on the first half.

Thought Chamberlain had a very good display all things considered. Ball advancement and beating the press is what he does and is much needed from our midfield.

[El Lobo]

May or may not have clicked in the second half yesterday.

In theory 3 of them have all the tools needed to achieve balance and it made sense why it potentially happened in the second half - as a unit they haven't played together hardly ever and it made sense that it took a bit of time for them to get into rhythm.

Klopp will be encouraged by that 40 minute period in the second half - having watched it back we weren't just good or decent we were fantastic for how we want to play on both sides of the ball - build up and geggenpressing were executed to perfection. What it also tells me is that our defensive solidity depends on our midfield balance 100%. Our back 4 as good as they are can't cope when they are exposed but when midfield is balanced we are impossible to be scored against.

I have a feeling Klopp will give them 3 a chance to continue against Arsenal because we need our midfield to function correctly if we want to play our best football. Very , very encouraging.

Which 40 minute period? Fabinho came on after 76 minutes, and Ox went off after 89.

Do you mean you see the future as Gini, Milly and Ox? Fair play, it’s bold.

[SerbianScouser]

Which 40 minute period?
Do you mean you see the future as Gini, Milly and Ox? Fair play, it’s bold.

40 min period in the second half until the mistake even with Fabinho.

[El Lobo]

40 min period in the second half until the mistake even with Fabinho.

So you want Milner, Wijnaldum and Oxlade to start against Arsenal.

[SerbianScouser]

So you want Milner, Wijnaldum and Oxlade to start against Arsenal.

It'd be worth trying to see if they can continue with that stuff because it was the most balanced midfield performance we've seen in a very long while. In theory basically with our personnel as long as we don't pair Milner and Henderson we should be able to achieve that balance. This is not about qualities of individuals but whether does that midfield 3 has the skillset between them to function properly with and without the ball.

[Didi_ram]

Second half performance was good, Ox was very good. However, the first half midfield show was really poor, similar to the first half vs Chelsea. This is a bit worrying IMO. I'd like Keita to get fit soon and get an extended run, also Ox. Don't really know why we aren't dominating the middle of the park. Henderson seems better than last season IMO. I'm pretty certain we'll start Henderson Gini and Fabinho against Arsenal.

[SMASHerano]

Ideally I would like to see Keita, Ox and Fabinho in midfield this season. However, with Keita's injury record and Ox still getting up to speed after his long-term injury, it seems we won't be seeing it soon.

[CraigDS]

Ideally I would like to see Keita, Ox and Fabinho in midfield this season. However, with Keita's injury record and Ox still getting up to speed after his long-term injury, it seems we won't be seeing it soon.

I think it depends on the opposition - Henderson definitely has a place in that midfield at times for me.

[duvva 💅]

It’ll be interesting to see how the midfield evolves this season. I’d expect there to be a lot more rotation, not sure we’ll have a settled 3 too often if everyone’s available. Think Klopp will mix things up depending on the opposition we’re up against.

[Knight]

Replace Milner with Fabinho and we've got my first choice midfield whilst Keita is out injured. I suspect Klopp doesn't have a first choice midfield but we really need players who can receive the ball inside the opposition shape and those 3 provide it, and AOC provides penetration too. If we get and then keep Keita and AOC fit we've got a scary midfield. Those 2 and Fabinho will be lots of fun.

[Asam]

If oxlade and Keita reach their level we will have much better options from midfield, we have the workmen but the touch of class could elevate our team

[L8Craig]

Any one on Twitter broke down the performance of our midfield in the Chelsea and Southampton games?
It'd be an interesting watch seeing someone break it down how we went about it and how the opposition played against us.

Anyone out there with loads of time on their hands?

[farawayred]

I wonder how many times we're going to see a midfield of Keita-Fabinho-Wijnaldum... Keita is often injured (so far) but Ox can fill in for him, Hendo is often in No.8 and Gini shifts to No.6, and all other combinations. All this versatility is great, and all of the players have different attributes to offer in these positions, but what's the best combination?

[SerbianScouser]

but what's the best combination?

Fabinho - Ox - Naby/Gini.

I think a lot of fans are not aware how glorious our midfield will be once our best midfielders get settled and up to speed.

[El Lobo]

Fabinho - Ox - Naby/Gini.

I think a lot of fans are not aware how glorious our midfield will be once our best midfielders get settled and up to speed.

I thought you wanted Gini, Milner and Ox?

[Ghost Town]

Problem with a Fab - Ox - Keita dream midfield is will they be able to cover for and protect Trent (in particular) and Robbo in the way that Gini and Hendo and Milner do?

Or will we expect less creativity from the fullbacks if the midfield is more attacking?

[farawayred]

Fabinho - Ox - Naby/Gini.

I think a lot of fans are not aware how glorious our midfield will be once our best midfielders get settled and up to speed.

I see Ox and Naby more similar in their attacking intent and less natural defenders as opposed to Gini, so I'd recon they seem to be vying for the same role. Fabinho is a clear choice for No6, and I think Gini completes that trio since he can easily activate the inner No6 when we lose possession. He's more in competition with Hendo for the same role, although Hendo offers more consistent performances and gets picked more often.

And yeah, once everyone is running in top gear, we'll have a killer midfield.

[BrandoLFC]

Has Milner finally hit an age wall?  These last 2 games have not been kind to him.

I'd like to see more from Ox before proclaiming him potentially our best option but then again the picking's are pretty slim.  Think I'd agree that for Arsenal I'd like to see Fabinho, Gini, Ox but more than likely we'll see Fabinho/Hendo/Milner.

Just gets back to if LFC wanted to improve the starting XI then we needed to add more goals from midfield this summer. 

[farawayred]

Has Milner finally hit an age wall?  These last 2 games have not been kind to him.

I'd like to see more from Ox before proclaiming him potentially our best option but then again the picking's are pretty slim.  Think I'd agree that for Arsenal I'd like to see Fabinho, Gini, Ox but more than likely we'll see Fabinho/Hendo/Milner.

Just gets back to if LFC wanted to improve the starting XI then we needed to add more goals from midfield this summer. 

I'd guess Fabinho-Hendo-Gini, if all fit. Ox in for Hendo or Gini, depending on result and performance.

[RedG13]

I see Ox and Naby more similar in their attacking intent and less natural defenders as opposed to Gini, so I'd recon they seem to be vying for the same role. Fabinho is a clear choice for No6, and I think Gini completes that trio since he can easily activate the inner No6 when we lose possession. He's more in competition with Hendo for the same role, although Hendo offers more consistent performances and gets picked more often.

And yeah, once everyone is running in top gear, we'll have a killer midfield.

Role wise Fabinho the 6. Keita the 8 and Ox is 10 Mf wise(he will be more deeper inside right behind Salah, like a wider Gotze type but he would cover Mf in the Press though as Firmino push up centrally ). You also run that Mf vs low block team where you need two Penetration players. You play gini in place of ox or keita in the bigger games, and when u need to hold onto the lead.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Role wise Fabinho the 6. Keita the 8 and Ox is 10 Mf wise(he will be more deeper inside right behind Salah, like a wider Gotze type but he would cover Mf in the Press though as Firmino push up centrally ). You also run that Mf vs low block team where you need two Penetration players. You play gini in place of ox or keita in the bigger games, and when u need to hold onto the lead.

Our 10 is Firmino. Which makes Ox and Keita dual #8s.

[nico 8]

I see Ox and Naby more similar in their attacking intent and less natural defenders as opposed to Gini, so I'd recon they seem to be vying for the same role. Fabinho is a clear choice for No6, and I think Gini completes that trio since he can easily activate the inner No6 when we lose possession. He's more in competition with Hendo for the same role, although Hendo offers more consistent performances and gets picked more often.

And yeah, once everyone is running in top gear, we'll have a killer midfield.

"...Hendo offers more consistent performances and gets picked more often." (than Gini)
Is that an opinion or a factual statement backed up by data?
Do agree that once everyone is up to speed, we will have a killer midfield with several options. It is, however, getting the right combinations dependent on the opposition.

[RedG13]

Our 10 is Firmino. Which makes Ox and Keita dual #8s.

Yea aware, seemed OX last game on the heatmap looked be more a 7 with the role of being the penetration player from inside right.

[Scottymuser]

It'd be worth trying to see if they can continue with that stuff because it was the most balanced midfield performance we've seen in a very long while. In theory basically with our personnel as long as we don't pair Milner and Henderson we should be able to achieve that balance. This is not about qualities of individuals but whether does that midfield 3 has the skillset between them to function properly with and without the ball.

First half, that midfield was dreadful, truly bad.  Second half was marginally better, but I would argue it was the FBs pushing up more, and not giving the ball away as much, which enabled that.  Milner was lucky not to get a yellow card in the first half (clear pull back when they were breaking forward - but it does seem like the refs are in general not giving yellows all the time for this), and several times after went hard into tackles which he may not have been able to do if he was already on a yellow.  Gini was ok; Ox was definitely better in the second half, and he is slowly getting back to being fit. 

[mrantarctica]

We have some very good player in that midfield. Let's not discount the fact that we are still early in the season and quite a few of the lads had a pretty short pre-season. At least 3 of them have had injury disrupted times, or returning from long term injuries (Ox, Lallana, Naby). I think it'll take perhaps 4-5 games before we are really up to speed and fluidity in that area of the pitch. Even with perhaps slightly below par performances from some of our midfielders, we are still creating a lot of chances and not giving away a lot either. We just need to be patient. Some of the key players have really not had much preparation time, maybe about 4 weeks. So I think the first month is probably going to seem some ongoing conditioning going on.

[SerbianScouser]

First half, that midfield was dreadful, truly bad.  Second half was marginally better, but I would argue it was the FBs pushing up more, and not giving the ball away as much, which enabled that.  Milner was lucky not to get a yellow card in the first half (clear pull back when they were breaking forward - but it does seem like the refs are in general not giving yellows all the time for this), and several times after went hard into tackles which he may not have been able to do if he was already on a yellow.  Gini was ok; Ox was definitely better in the second half, and he is slowly getting back to being fit. 

They were truly bad in the first half but in the second they weren't marginally but dramatically better.

Now it's hard to prove either way but my feeling and my theory is that midfield actually clicked in that second half till the mistake. And it made it sense to me why they needed time to get into the rhythm as they hardly ever played together as a midfield unit. Time will tell but I found that spell incredibly encouraging given the context of this season.

[plura]

I love what Ox and Keita has, that little sprint between a few players to get the ball through from our half and up quickly to theirs. With Ox it's more power, and Naby got a more silkiness to it. Love that Ox is finding his feet and form slowly again. He'll be great for us this season, hopefully Naby too.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Could this be the season when Milner's legs finally go? Not looked great so far and still drifts wide when we need him in the middle?

[Yorkykopite]

Could this be the season when Milner's legs finally go? Not looked great so far and still drifts wide when we need him in the middle?

I love the way he drifted wide for our first goal.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I love the way he drifted wide for our first goal.

Yep. I think the Milner stuff is being massively overplayed - as it is every season on here. He made some nice driving runs first half.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Yep. I think the Milner stuff is being massively overplayed - as it is every season on here. He made some nice driving runs first half.

He dominated in pre-season again in terms of fitness as per usual, I think he'll be fine as well

[El Lobo]

Milners legs will go when he’s about 60

He might lose a few yards in his head as he gets older, but he’s about as fit as they come.

[Yorkykopite]

Yep. I think the Milner stuff is being massively overplayed - as it is every season on here. He made some nice driving runs first half.

The little run he made to make himself available for the throw in that led to the goal was typical Milner. He's one of the most proactive players we have in midfield when the team looks to be getting bogged down. He works overtime to create space and has a really canny understanding of where to run to create it.

Incidentally, the first time I became aware of this was when Pelligrini sent him on as a second half sub when Man City were two down at Anfield. Milner yanked them back into the match through intelligent movement and simple passing. A very Liverpool couplet.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

The little run he made to make himself available for the throw in that led to the goal was typical Milner. He's one of the most proactive players we have in midfield when the team looks to be getting bogged down. He works overtime to create space and has a really canny understanding of where to run to create it.

Incidentally, the first time I became aware of this was when Pelligrini sent him on as a second half sub when Man City were two down at Anfield. Milner yanked them back into the match through intelligent movement and simple passing. A very Liverpool couplet.

Absolutely. He changed that game completely when he came on.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

The little run he made to make himself available for the throw in that led to the goal was typical Milner. He's one of the most proactive players we have in midfield when the team looks to be getting bogged down. He works overtime to create space and has a really canny understanding of where to run to create it.

Incidentally, the first time I became aware of this was when Pelligrini sent him on as a second half sub when Man City were two down at Anfield. Milner yanked them back into the match through intelligent movement and simple passing. A very Liverpool couplet.

Massive agreement. There's a reason he generally ends games with more touches than any Liverpool player. It might hurt us occasionally in terms of vacating space, but it'll benefit us far more, as you've referenced with regards to the first goal.

[JackWard33]

He dominated in pre-season again in terms of fitness as per usual, I think he'll be fine as well

He’ll never lose fitness - or at least not til he’s about 70 -  ... it’s sharpness (speed on the turn, acceleration etc) and also ‘power endurance’ for want of a better phrase that will slowly go- the ability to sprint and recover many times in quick succession over a game. That’s what ageing slowly takes away from players

(Not saying Milner has deteriorated - I have no idea - just that his aerobic fitness won’t be the issue)

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Drifting wide occasionally when we have the ball makes sense of course, but I think the problem for us is that when Henderson and Milner both play we look wide open at times as they both have a tendency to do so.

Are Milner and and Henderson getting back into a central position quickly enough at the moment?

Agree that Milner will be able to run and run for decades, but will he be able to run quickly enough for much longer? He is 33 and has played a lot of minutes in his career.

I think this is the season that Klopp will start to slowly reduce his minutes this season and give others more and more of those minutes.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Drifting wide occasionally when we have the ball makes sense of course, but I think the problem for us is that when Henderson and Milner both play we look wide open at times as they both have a tendency to do so.

Are Milner and and Henderson getting back into a central position quickly enough at the moment?

Agree that Milner will be able to run and run for decades, but will he be able to run quickly enough for much longer? He is 33 and has played a lot of minutes in his career.

I think this is the season that Klopp will start to slowly reduce his minutes this season and give others more and more of those minutes.

Not when we have two wingbacks, it doesn't. We need compactness in midfield then. We're duplicating the wide areas and there's no real need to do that, and it's exposing us on the break.

[PhaseOfPlay]

He’ll never lose fitness - or at least not til he’s about 70 -  ... it’s sharpness (speed on the turn, acceleration etc) and also ‘power endurance’ for want of a better phrase that will slowly go- the ability to sprint and recover many times in quick succession over a game. That’s what ageing slowly takes away from players

(Not saying Milner has deteriorated - I have no idea - just that his aerobic fitness won’t be the issue)

Repeated Sprint Ability (RSA) is the phrase you're looking for

Or "Speed Endurance" in old money

[Bolrick]

Teams are running through our midfield like how they did when rodgers was managing us. There is just no sync between our 3 midfielders. Hope we sort out all the tactical and positional aspects of our game soon.