Topic: NBA Discussion

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Thought it was odd this late in the doc for t to detour off and spend so much time on Steve Kerr but actually made sense once it got to the pay off of his moment in 97.

Just started episode 10 and fuck me, could you really be arsed with Rodman? Fucking idiot.

Of course you can, he was a beast on the court, and he also had his own mental issues, so it wasn't just him being an idiot. That's how he dealt with whatever was going on.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Thought it was odd this late in the doc for t to detour off and spend so much time on Steve Kerr but actually made sense once it got to the pay off of his moment in 97.

Just started episode 10 and fuck me, could you really be arsed with Rodman? Fucking idiot.

I tend to go the other way on this mate (more of a coaching perspective).  Imagine someone of Rodman's athleticism and willingness to abuse his body in all the various ways to experience pain?

For Dennis to get all that flak on and off the court and to be a big time partier, plus become one of the all-time greatest rebounders in the sport --- really says something about his ability to overcome adversity and pain.

Would I want everyone to be like him?  Fowler no.   But the best parts of team building involve bringing people together that normally would have no business being in the same room for 5 minutes.  This is why Phil is a genius.

He needed someone to sacrifice for the team - in different ways that complemented what they had.  The tradeoff was Rodman's WWE and Las Vegas benders. 

5 Rings would make you think it worked out just the way it was supposed to. 

[ScouserAtHeart]

I tend to go the other way on this mate (more of a coaching perspective).  Imagine someone of Rodman's athleticism and willingness to abuse his body in all the various ways to experience pain?

For Dennis to get all that flak on and off the court and to be a big time partier, plus become one of the all-time greatest rebounders in the sport --- really says something about his ability to overcome adversity and pain.

Would I want everyone to be like him?  Fowler no.   But the best parts of team building involve bringing people together that normally would have no business being in the same room for 5 minutes.  This is why Phil is a genius.

He needed someone to sacrifice for the team - in different ways that complemented what they had.  The tradeoff was Rodman's WWE and Las Vegas benders. 

6 Rings would make you think it worked out just the way it was supposed to. 

WCW, not WWE. Sorry to be pedantic:D

[Trendisnotdestiny]

WCW, not WWE. Sorry to be pedantic:D

No problem... I have seen less than 2 hours of wrestling in my entire life --- feel like this has been a good thing.

[Red Viper]

He wasn't a beast by 98. My point was if you're Jordan or Pippen heading for a second three-peat I reckon you'd be fuming at a guy who's fucking off to Vegas whenever he fancies it and missing practice to go on a wrestling show during the finals.

In the doc it's kind of laughed off but I suspect that's only cos it all worked out, I bet at the time they weren't laughing.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

He wasn't a beast by 98. My point was if you're Jordan or Pippen heading for a second three-peat I reckon you'd be fuming at a guy who's fucking off to Vegas whenever he fancies it and missing practice to go on a wrestling show during the finals.

In the doc it's kind of laughed off but I suspect that's only cos it all worked out, I bet at the time they weren't laughing.

Well it worked out so we will never know. Considering they played with him for years and knew how he was, it wouldn't be a major shock given their history.

He was a beast overall during his time here and essential regardless to their success.

To brand him as an idiot, especially given the tortured soul he is, and the trauma he suffered as a kid, is a bit ridiculous.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Well it worked out so we will never know. Considering they played with him for years and knew how he was, it wouldn't be a major shock given their history.

He was a beast overall during his time here and essential regardless to their success.

To brand him as an idiot, especially given the tortured soul he is, and the trauma he suffered as a kid, is a bit ridiculous.

I agree with this... as a former Pacer fan all the more.

[kaesarsosei]

Overall a fantastic documentary that I'm sure has fulfilled it's objective of making someone like me even slightly interested in the NBA.

I would say that I thought the first 6 episodes or so were much stronger than the last few. Also I think they should have spent a few minutes at the end talking about what the individuals did after 98.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Also they missed the context behind keeping that team together for another run - jordan was making more than the salary cap (was around $110m this year, $30m or so then) so they wouldn’t have had the space to make many additions, rodman was done (played less than 40 games after that), pippen needed getting paid so would have gone from $3m to at least $12m (and would have wanted more than a one year deal, as even though Jordan thinks it could have been done as a one year deal I doubt pippen would accept any one year deal unless it was for Jordan money, and rightly so) and the likes of Kerr were out of contract, plus you had the lockout that season and the introduction of salary cap penalties so if you went over a certain amount of the cap, so it wouldn’t have been feasible to keep that team

[Red Viper]

Also they missed the context behind keeping that team together for another run - jordan was making more than the salary cap (was around $110m this year, $30m or so then) so they wouldn’t have had the space to make many additions, rodman was done (played less than 40 games after that), pippen needed getting paid so would have gone from $3m to at least $12m (and would have wanted more than a one year deal, as even though Jordan thinks it could have been done as a one year deal I doubt pippen would accept any one year deal unless it was for Jordan money, and rightly so) and the likes of Kerr were out of contract, plus you had the lockout that season and the introduction of salary cap penalties so if you went over a certain amount of the cap, so it wouldn’t have been feasible to keep that team

Didn't the 8th seed knicks win the championship the next year? I reckon if they found a way to keep Jordan and Pippen and got in some new role players they'd have had a good shot in 99.

Edit: Sorry, the knicks won the east and lost to the Spurs. Still, I think a bulls team with Jordan and Pippen could have made the finals

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Didn't the 8th seed knicks win the championship the next year? I reckon if they found a way to keep Jordan and Pippen and got in some new role players they'd have had a good shot in 99.

Edit: Sorry, the knicks won the east and lost to the Spurs. Still, I think a bulls team with Jordan and Pippen could have made the finals

Reinsdorf used to or still does own the White Sox --- a team who has been underachieving for decades (aside for one year where they beat the Astros in the WS).

He was always about the money.  He probably thought they would jump at a chance for ring #7 if they waited until the end to see if they could do it again.

It backfired as Phil was done with this structure (and Dennis and Scottie each had their own stuff), and again MJ was exhausted.  And all of the backups were up for new contracts - more expensive ones

I think its telling that each of the people involved all the left the team via trade, retirement, or just wanting to find greener pastures.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Didn't the 8th seed knicks win the championship the next year? I reckon if they found a way to keep Jordan and Pippen and got in some new role players they'd have had a good shot in 99.

Edit: Sorry, the knicks won the east and lost to the Spurs. Still, I think a bulls team with Jordan and Pippen could have made the finals

knicks got to the finals, as for reinsdorf apparently they made double the money the year after in a season with only 50 games compared to the year before with around double (people were still paying good money to watch them)

[The North Bank]

Fantastic documentary. Jordan is incredible. The last time I watched him live on Tv was that jumper against Utah that clinched the 6th title.
Last night after watching episode 10 I looked around the internet and found the full match of wizards against the bulls in 2003 I believe, Jordan was back and scoring for fun. Id never seen that before, assumed he retired after the bulls. Certainly should have carried on, he would've broken every individual record going if not won another NBA.
I think like most players in sport, their biggest regret would be a career cut short, worse for Jordan in that it was by choice, and probably wishes he played more now.
But there is something mystical about their era never ending on court, "they can only win after we stop".

[The North Bank]

The other thing that I found astonishing, most of the play off games Jordan was involved in seem to be ending with the winning team getting around 80/90 points, and he was still getting 30/40 points a game.
Nowadays to win a game you probably need 120 points, teams get to 80/90 points with a quarter left to play, so players getting 40 points doesn't amount to 50% of the team's scoring like when Jordan was playing, at a time when teams were clearly far better defensively and the league was more physical and you could get away with a lot more. These days any contact is a foul, If he played now then 60 points a game would be his average. That's why hes the best ever.

They should do one on the lakers with kobe and shaq and use Phil Jackson as the link.
Wouldn't mind a Greg Popovic documentary either.

[kloppagetime]

Great documentary, Utah bottled that 98 finals though. They swept their conference finals while the Bulls went seven games in theirs, Utah also had home court advantage for the finals as well and the Bulls were also mentally exhausted.

[The North Bank]

Great documentary, Utah bottled that 98 finals though. They swept their conference finals while the Bulls went seven games in theirs, Utah also had home court advantage for the finals as well and the Bulls were also mentally exhausted.

They were up against a team that dominated the 90s so were never going to be favourites against Jordan regardless of the regular season record.
I think they gave it their best shot.

Karl Malone was a scoring machine though , the mail man, always delivers.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Karl Malone was a scoring machine though , the mail man, always delivers.

Except sundays

[kloppagetime]

They were up against a team that dominated the 90s so were never going to be favourites against Jordan regardless of the regular season record.
I think they gave it their best shot.

Karl Malone was a scoring machine though , the mail man, always delivers.

I can see where your coming from and for me it just shows how a great a winner Jordan was any other team in that situation would of lost to the Jazz. The Lakers in 89 and 04 were in a similar situation against the Pistons and lost both times and the Warriors lost to the Raptors last season when they had similar circumstances.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Except sundays

I was surprised Pippen talked almost as much trash as Jordan

[fowlermagic]

Started to watch the documentary after a mate said it was good and considering it was the only team / time I watched basketball on a regular basis it is a good show. Some great memories as moved to the States in 94 for 20 years so the Bulls were all over TV at the time. Was in Atlanta in 98 and remember the build up to Jordans last game in town as they moved the venue to the Dome which could hold 80k. That allowed me and another 60K fans to watch them play the Hawks as I was lucky enough to get a nose bleed seat. The Georgia Dome was not the best venue but probably still a record crowd for an NBA game. I only stayed until half time so I could at least say I saw Jordan play but this was pretty much my view for that half. I still laugh when I compare it to watching ants play basketball.

[The North Bank]

Started to watch the documentary after a mate said it was good and considering it was the only team / time I watched basketball on a regular basis it is a good show. Some great memories as moved to the States in 94 for 20 years so the Bulls were all over TV at the time. Was in Atlanta in 98 and remember the build up to Jordans last game in town as they moved the venue to the Dome which could hold 80k. That allowed me and another 60K fans to watch them play the Hawks as I was lucky enough to get a nose bleed seat. The Georgia Dome was not the best venue but probably still a record crowd for an NBA game. I only stayed until half time so I could at least say I saw Jordan play but this was pretty much my view for that half. I still laugh when I compare it to watching ants play basketball.

At least you got to see him live, you always want to see the greats at least once.
I saw Kobe Bryant live at the 2012 Olympics ,USA vs Australia quarter finals, he hit 4 quick 3 pointers in the 4th quarter to win the game.
Seen Messi a couple of times.

And seen Theo Walcott, something to tell the grandkids, if theyre having trouble sleeping.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Started to watch the documentary after a mate said it was good and considering it was the only team / time I watched basketball on a regular basis it is a good show. Some great memories as moved to the States in 94 for 20 years so the Bulls were all over TV at the time. Was in Atlanta in 98 and remember the build up to Jordans last game in town as they moved the venue to the Dome which could hold 80k. That allowed me and another 60K fans to watch them play the Hawks as I was lucky enough to get a nose bleed seat. The Georgia Dome was not the best venue but probably still a record crowd for an NBA game. I only stayed until half time so I could at least say I saw Jordan play but this was pretty much my view for that half. I still laugh when I compare it to watching ants play basketball.

are there people behind the nfl goal on the other side??

At least you got to see him live, you always want to see the greats at least once.
I saw Kobe Bryant live at the 2012 Olympics ,USA vs Australia quarter finals, he hit 4 quick 3 pointers in the 4th quarter to win the game.
Seen Messi a couple of times.

And seen Theo Walcott, something to tell the grandkids, if theyre having trouble sleeping.

so much disrespect to andre santos here

On a more serious note I did get to see Kobe, so good seeing the greats at their peak

[fowlermagic]

It was silly really as the Philips Arena now is a great place to watch a game and the Dome is long gone but they knew the Bulls were the hottest ticket in town. They closed off quarter of the Dome for some reason otherwise they would have sold 80k and when I think I actually saw the great Bulls side even in miniature size its still a bucket list. Also saw Jordan following the Ryder Cup team around in Detroit in 2004 I think as he was part of the team setup somehow. Lucky for the team they dont have Barkley showing them how to swing

On a sidenote that Dream Team was something else but it also was a bit of a joke allowing them to play as it was the best of the best playing against amateurs virtually. Crazy to see Croatia did push them a little but the Americans did not take too kindly to getting beat by Russia in 1988. Cant have the rest of the world showing up the USA in basketball and by the time 1992 came around they only had one college player in their roster. Suppose to be the greatest sports team ever seen but I doubt if any of them were too pushed about the Olympics beforehand. 

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Wasn’t part of the reason why they let NBA players in the olympics was so it wouldn’t hurt the international players who wanted to come to the states as that would have made them ineligible, think Oscar Schmidt said this years ago in a documentary

[GreatEx]

Great documentary, Utah bottled that 98 finals though. They swept their conference finals while the Bulls went seven games in theirs, Utah also had home court advantage for the finals as well and the Bulls were also mentally exhausted.

Man, the documentary brought back some bitter memories for me as a Jazz fan who was heavily into the NBA in the '90s. The heartbreaker wasn't the Jordan winner, it was the previous two plays: firstly the Jazz's criminal inability to force the Bulls to use more clock when the Bulls had an inbounds pass with 40 seconds left and trailing by 3; and then Karl Malone being totally unaware of Jordan's presence for the steal. If he'd seen what Jordan was doing, he'd have been able to hook the ball over to Jordan's opponent for an uncontested layup. Jordan went all-or-nothing on that play and should have got nothing. Game 7 in the Delta Center would have been fucking bananas, I reckon Pippen would have been unable to play and the Jazz would have romped it home. But you know, aunties and bollocks and all that.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Talking of the jazz, Jerry Sloan has died, RIP

[kloppagetime]

Horrible news absolutely legendary coach probably the best NBA coach to have never won a title

[rafathegaffa83]

Horrible news absolutely legendary coach probably the best NBA coach to have never won a title

Yep. RIP. He was excellent. Always liked him

[J-Mc-]

Anyone know where to buy XXXL jerseys?

Looked everywhere and can’t seem to find any over XXL.

[elsewhere]

NBA Entering 'Exploratory Conversations' Over Restarting Season At Walt Disney World In Late July

The NBA has entered "exploratory conversations" with Walt Disney Company over possibly restarting its season in late July at Walt Disney World.

"The NBA, in conjunction with the National Basketball Players Association, is engaged in exploratory conversations with The Walt Disney Company about restarting the 2019-20 NBA season in late July at Disney's ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex in Florida as a single site for an NBA campus for games, practices and housing," said NBA spokesperson Mike Bass.

The NBA is still deciding as to what form the league will return, and sent out a survey to all 30 GMs on Friday.

The NBA has a board of governors call set for next Friday to provide additional details, timelines, and plans on how it will proceed with the season.
------------------------------

Looks like if it happens it will start from play off's, also this probably means next season will start Christmas time.
The "exploratory" conversations should've happened a month ago if Silver was serious about bringing NBA back. End of July timetable suggests to me that this all is just to show people "they are doing something". Silver and owners must have agreed to cancel the season already, and Silver probably getting heat from owners who do not want to pay players.

[elsewhere]

They were up against a team that dominated the 90s so were never going to be favourites against Jordan regardless of the regular season record.
I think they gave it their best shot.

Karl Malone was a scoring machine though , the mail man, always delivers.

He really was, I sometimes ask myself if Stockton made Malone a much better player or vice versa. Seems like these two complimented each other perfectly on the floor.

After watching the Last Dance, i do miss those fundamental old games where PF's and centers battling every single game. Now SF's and PF's and centers are PF's with a range who live behind the arc. Things change too damn quick, at this speed all teams will take more long 3's then 2 point shots every single game.

[elsewhere]

Patrick Ewing Tests Positive For COVID-19

Jerry Sloan Passes Away At 78

LaMelo Ball Is Top-Rated Point Guard On Knicks' Draft Board

Mike Budenholzer Was Reportedly Close To Taking Knicks' Job In Summer 2018

Jonathan Kuminga Considering G League, Is 50/50 On Reclassifying Into Class Of 2020

Davide Moretti Leaves Texas Tech, Signs Multi-Year Deal With Olimpia Milano

Brendan Bailey To Leave Marquette To Pursue Pro Career

An Estimated 36-38 Referees Needed To Resume Season

Joe Ingles Prepared To Play If NBA Resumes Season

Teams To Reduce Traveling Parties Down From 50 To 35

Mark Cuban Says He Was Surprised By Kristaps Porzingis Trade Offer

Nets Hold Internal Talks On Trading For Bradley Beal

Giannis Antetokounmpo: Giannis And The Greek Freak Are Two Different People

LeBron James Holds On-Court Workouts With 1-2 Teammates

LeBron James Considered Playing For Dallas Cowboys During 2011 NBA Lockout

NBA Also Considering Houston As Host Site For Neutral Games

[J-Mc-]

On episode 10 now and you’ll never see a player like Jordan again.

People put Kobe, Shaq, LeBron ect into the conversation of ‘like Mike,’ but the difference is the will to win that Jordan had that no one else will ever match.

Like was said in the doc, he went to places that normal people just aren’t able to when it came to wanting to win.

You’ll get some incredibly talented players, ones who will come close to the talent Jordan had, but you’ll never find anyone who matches the talent with the mentality to take on the world and have the world apologise for daring to go against you.

[The North Bank]

On episode 10 now and you’ll never see a player like Jordan again.

People put Kobe, Shaq, LeBron ect into the conversation of ‘like Mike,’ but the difference is the will to win that Jordan had that no one else will ever match.

Like was said in the doc, he went to places that normal people just aren’t able to when it came to wanting to win.

You’ll get some incredibly talented players, ones who will come close to the talent Jordan had, but you’ll never find anyone who matches the talent with the mentality to take on the world and have the world apologise for daring to go against you.

I really don't think anyone gets close to his talent, never mind his will to win.
For me the greatest sportsman ever.

[ScouserAtHeart]

I just love how petty he is Even after all these years.

[J-Mc-]

I really don't think anyone gets close to his talent, never mind his will to win.
For me the greatest sportsman ever.

Should have said you ‘might’ tbf, my bad.

Basketball is Basketball, you can train and train and end up having the talent (LeBron for example,) but you’ll never get someone who has the talent mixed with the drive that Jordan had ever again in my opinion.

[kloppagetime]

For me Kobe was the closest thing to another Jordan had the same killer mentality as him, LeBron should of been the greatest of all time as when it comes to natural talent he's more gifted than Jordan but what separates Jordan and him is Jordan had the killer mentality and LeBron doesn't.

[GreatEx]

I just love how petty he is Even after all these years.

Yeah, I found it really interesting the way he managed to manufacture all these grievances as a motivational tool. Like the story about how Bryon Russell said "hey, I bet you retired because you didn't want to face me", just a bit of idle banter that was almost certainly meant to be self-effacing, yet even now Jordan stops and stares and you can feel the temperature drop and people thinking, "oh man, now he's done it". And then over the next couple of years he humiliates Russell in multiple critical game moments. There were other examples where he didn't even exaggerate an offence, he just made it up entirely. It's remarkable how he was able to trick his mind and body that way.

Of course, the USA is currently run by a man who similarly concocts grievances as a motivational tool (both for himself and his supporters), with dire consequences to society, so it's not always an admirable trait, but in the confines of a sporting arena it is genius.

[BER]

I didn't know who Charles Barkley was a few weeks ago, googled him after one of The Last Dance episodes and I'm kind of obsessed with the man now. He's so funny, the fan interaction stories, his golf swing, those big ol women, he's the source of that Jordan laughing meme and all round seems like the nicest dude in the world...

And of course Jordan has fallen out with him because of how thin skinned he is. 

[kloppagetime]

Yeah Chuck is great and you should definitely check out inside the NBA when the pandemic is over. It's the best sports show on television and even people who don't watch Basketball love that show.