Topic: Southampton FC general discussion thread

[The Playmaker]

They had a great start to the season but they've hit a really bad patch of form. Like Swansea City, a midtable finish would be good for them this season. I didn't expect them to challenge for a top six place - despite an excellent start. They cannot press like they do over the course of a season and as mentioned the Christmas run of games is a run where most teams drop points (because you have a little time between each game to prepare etc)

[Xxavi]

I don't think anyone will be doing that. I think they'll be recognising that their early season form was going to be unsustainable without a large squad. They also lack goals. It's a recipe for a downslide mid-to-late season

Southampton and Swansea are same level in terms of their general footballing qualities. The difference is, Southampton has spent much more than Swansea, and yet, you are saying it is OK to criticize Swansea but not Southampton? I am confused.

Swansea bought Osvaldo for a lot of money, who has been as effective as Bony. Or as ineffective as Bony. Southampton bought Gaston Ramirez for big money, and that guy doesn't even get a game. I am not sure why Southampton shouldn't get the flack then?

[PhaseOfPlay]

Southampton and Swansea are same level in terms of their general footballing qualities. The difference is, Southampton has spent much more than Swansea, and yet, you are saying it is OK to criticize Swansea but not Southampton? I am confused.

Swansea bought Osvaldo for a lot of money, who has been as effective as Bony. Or as ineffective as Bony. Southampton bought Gaston Ramirez for big money, and that guy doesn't even get a game. I am not sure why Southampton shouldn't get the flack then?

Where did I say that?

[Xxavi]

Where did I say that?

You didn't, but you implied indirectly. When I said I am expecting people to pour shit on Southampton shortly, you said

I don't think anyone will be doing that. I think they'll be recognising that their early season form was going to be unsustainable without a large squad. They also lack goals. It's a recipe for a downslide mid-to-late season

Which is very fair. But the same things apply to Swansea. Not sure if you realize that when you criticize Swansea and Laudrup. Neither Laudrup nor Pochettino are bad managers. There is a reason why Rodgers jumped the ship when he got an offer from LFC.

[PhaseOfPlay]

You didn't, but you implied indirectly. When I said I am expecting people to pour shit on Southampton shortly, you said
Which is very fair. But the same things apply to Swansea. Not sure if you realize that when you criticize Swansea and Laudrup. Neither Laudrup nor Pochettino are bad managers. There is a reason why Rodgers jumped the ship when he got an offer from LFC.

Show me where I criticise Laudrup and Swansea?

[Xxavi]

^ In the neighboring thread about Swansea of course

[PhaseOfPlay]

^ In the neighboring thread about Swansea of course

I didn't criticise either one. I pointed out that Rodgers actually left a very good foundation for Laudrup, and now that Laudrup has changed enough of that foundation, he isn't doing as well, so we can see clear evidence for what Rodgers actually achieved, given that Rodgers now has Liverpool top of the league and scoring for fun.

In other words, by comparing the two coaches, you can actually see how good Rodgers is.

That isn't the same as a criticism. And it certainly compares favourably with my assessment of Southampton earlier this year that they wouldn't be able to sustain their pressing game with their resources. That isn't a criticism of Pocchetino either. It's an assessment.

[Xxavi]

^ You can look at things multiple ways. Anyway, for me, both Swansea and Southampton, and I could add Newcastle here as well, are of similar level. Their coaches are good, not sure if top, so this season has changed nothing in my view of them. Only Martinez has impressed me from the teams that are not very strong. However, not sure if that is sustainable either considering Everton's spending.

I will not be surprised to see Everton back in 7-10 region. That wouldn't make Martinez bad either.

[PhaseOfPlay]

^ You can look at things multiple ways. Anyway, for me, both Swansea and Southampton, and I could add Newcastle here as well, are of similar level. Their coaches are good, not sure if top, so this season has changed nothing in my view of them. Only Martinez has impressed me from the teams that are not very strong. However, not sure if that is sustainable either considering Everton's spending.

I will not be surprised to see Everton back in 7-10 region. That wouldn't make Martinez bad either.

You're backtracking.

As I said, I didn't criticise any of the subjects. I made assessments based on what I see and based on their technical performance. I also defended our manager, to a degree. Because quite simply, Brendan Rodgers is ace.

[jamieredders]

You're backtracking.

As I said, I didn't criticise any of the subjects. I made assessments based on what I see and based on their technical performance. I also defended our manager, to a degree. Because quite simply, Brendan Rodgers is ace.

Absolutely.  These RAWK wankfests of other clubs are a piss-take.  We are fans of one of the biggest clubs in the land with a tremendous manager playing beautiful football.  Yet the place is infested with threads bigging up shitey clubs, players and managers.  What the fook for? 

WE ARE TOP OF THE LEAGUE

 

[The 1989 Brit Awards]

Absolutely.  These RAWK wankfests of other clubs are a piss-take.  We are fans of one of the biggest clubs in the land with a tremendous manager playing beautiful football.  Yet the place is infested with threads bigging up shitey clubs, players and managers.  What the fook for? 

WE ARE TOP OF THE LEAGUE

 

Might as well close the "General Football and Sport" section then...

[ElstonGunn]

The biggest thing behind them falling off the pace is just a schedule issue. When they were near the top, they'd had the easiest schedule in the league. Now they've played the big boys, they've fallen off. Other issues as well, of course, including fitness and injuries, but I think it's pretty simple in the end.

[gooner1]

The biggest thing behind them falling off the pace is just a schedule issue. When they were near the top, they'd had the easiest schedule in the league. Now they've played the big boys, they've fallen off. Other issues as well, of course, including fitness and injuries, but I think it's pretty simple in the end.

They been exposed for their lack of cover at the back in last month or so when playing big boys. Only won one game in their last eight games. Worry for them is teams might have worked them out now and will just sit back and counter attack them. They might need add some players in jan to avoid any danger of getting into battle to stay up.

[blacksun]

Well they seem to be dropping back to the 8-10th position I predicted. I'd be happy to take Shaw, Schneiderlin and Lallana off their hands.

[Macedonian Red Reborn]

Well, I predicted that they would end up in mid-table, and that is a realistic outcome. However, they are doing a good job there, and they are building a very solid team. Lets not forget they they have some very wealthy owners in the Liebherr family. They have bought some very good players like Osvaldo, Wanyama, Lovren, Rodriguez and Clyne in the past couple of years, and they can actually afford the occasional transfer blunder, like in the cases of Ramirez and Forren. Their Academy is still producing some very nice players, like Shaw and Ward-Prowse recently, and now they might be in position to keep these talented youngsters, since they have the financial stability.

[Xxavi]

Well, I predicted that they would end up in mid-table, and that is a realistic outcome. However, they are doing a good job there, and they are building a very solid team. Lets not forget they they have some very wealthy owners in the Liebherr family. They have bought some very good players like Osvaldo, Wanyama, Lovren, Rodriguez and Clyne in the past couple of years, and they can actually afford the occasional transfer blunder, like in the cases of Ramirez and Forren. Their Academy is still producing some very nice players, like Shaw and Ward-Prowse recently, and now they might be in position to keep these talented youngsters, since they have the financial stability.

I would love to see their transfer spending stats for the past 2 years. They have spent most outside of the big guns.

[zabadoh]

They will probably sell one of their 'gems' to a bigger club, so they can spend some money on beefing up the squad in the summer.

That's a great idea actually.  Swapping one or more of their tired horses for some relatively fresh legs.

[Juan Loco]

I would love to see their transfer spending stats for the past 2 years. They have spent most outside of the big guns.

Not sure they have. Be surprised if they've spent significantly more than Stoke or West Ham, they've just done it well.

[BazC]

They've just been figured out haven't they. Instead of teams going there expecting them to sit back, they've been pressed all over the park, and they've found themselves winning points because of it.

But now, teams just won't give them that opportunity. They'll either go toe to toe with them (if it's one of the bigger teams), and give their game the respect it deserves, or they'll sit back and give them nothing to press, force them out and get in on the counter. They're not that creative nor do they score many goals.

Compare it to one of the more creative teams facing those situations - Liverpool vs Cardiff yesterday. They get blown away by individual talent. Suarez obviously, but you look at the quality in tight spaces that Henderson, Coutinho, Sterling showed yesterday when we were attacking.

[Xxavi]

^I don't want to sound overly negative, but Suarez is essentially carrying Liverpool, he is like what Bale was for Spurs last season. Most of his goals are individual brilliance, and not a creative team play. You have got to recognize that.

Quite frankly, if you put Suarez in the Southampton team, I am not sure if the positions of Liverpool and Southampton wouldn't be reversed. The same applies to the likes of Everton, Newcastle and Swansea for me.

Anyway, my view is that Southampton are doing well, and Pochettino has done a good job. That would be true even if they finish 9th or 10th, considering their squad.

[Po The Panda]

Sorry what It's nothing like Bale who was scoring last minute winner to snatch 3 points despite Spurs never looking like scoring.

 Whereas we are battering teams creating chance after chance coupled with Suarez in the form of his life. You really do talk some nonsense Plus We've scored 42 goals in the league by the way.

[Juan Loco]

Yeah, but no. Our record without Suarez says different. We were only outside the top 4 on goal difference when he returned, only lost once when he was out injured.

'Carrying' is a stretch, to say the fucking least.

[BazC]

Yeah, I think you're wrong on that one. He was banned for the first 5 games this season, and we were pretty much top of the league at the time he came back in.

He was also banned for the last 5 games of last season, and we were going to Newcastle and beating them 6-0. In fact, think about it this way- the last 38 games (he's been banned for a quarter of them), we're what, 3rd in that particular table.

We wouldn't be top of the league if we were being carried by Suarez. And I think you're a bit silly to think Southampton may be top of the league if they had Suarez.

[jooneyisdagod]

^I don't want to sound overly negative, but Suarez is essentially carrying Liverpool, he is like what Bale was for Spurs last season. Most of his goals are individual brilliance, and not a creative team play. You have got to recognize that.

Quite frankly, if you put Suarez in the Southampton team, I am not sure if the positions of Liverpool and Southampton wouldn't be reversed. The same applies to the likes of Everton, Newcastle and Swansea for me.

Anyway, my view is that Southampton are doing well, and Pochettino has done a good job. That would be true even if they finish 9th or 10th, considering their squad.

Not true since we were still top or thereabouts when Suarez was suspended. Since he has come back in Suarez I do think carried us in a few games but ever since Allen has come back into the side, I'm seeing more and more goals scored that are 'team goals' as the many counter attacking goals have shown. And really we could have had even more of those if we were a bit more clinical.

[ElstonGunn]

Most of his goals are individual brilliance, and not a creative team play. You have got to recognize that.

It's really not true. I mean, obviously some of them are just ridiculous. But he had 4 one-on-ones created for him against Spurs, for example, and that's not even counting the first goal, which practically was one. We're cutting teams open pretty well, and then we also have Suarez. That's a big part of why his conversion rate is more than triple what it was when he genuinely was only scoring individual goals under Kenny because no one was helping him.

[Xxavi]

Well, at some point, Southampton were also in or about top 4 in the league. Doesn't mean much really. The matter of fact is Suarez started playing late on and scored 19 goals already. Huge huge contribution.

May be Southampton wouldn't be leading the league table with Suarez up front, granted, but I think they'd be in top 4 position or fighting for it.

[Juan Loco]

Yeah, but they would be if they had Messi playing for them. I guess that means Messi carries Barcelona?

[PhaseOfPlay]

^I don't want to sound overly negative, but Suarez is essentially carrying Liverpool, he is like what Bale was for Spurs last season. Most of his goals are individual brilliance, and not a creative team play. You have got to recognize that.

Quite frankly, if you put Suarez in the Southampton team, I am not sure if the positions of Liverpool and Southampton wouldn't be reversed. The same applies to the likes of Everton, Newcastle and Swansea for me.

Anyway, my view is that Southampton are doing well, and Pochettino has done a good job. That would be true even if they finish 9th or 10th, considering their squad.

Does Messi carry Barcelona?

[Xxavi]

Yeah, but they would be if they had Messi playing for them. I guess that means Messi carries Barcelona?

He does, at least he did last year. Glad that Barca has enough firepower to do well without him.

But if Southampton had Messi, I think they would finish in top 4 without a doubt. Not sure about winning the league though.

PS Not sure why there is so much debate about it. If you have a great player, it makes a great difference. Real Sociedad finished 2nd with Alonso and Nihat, then they disappeared. Villarreal played in CL semifinal with Riquelme. Spurs were almost in top 4 with Bale.

[Xxavi]

It is also strange that on here, people think Lukaku is the difference between a midtable Everton team and the current Everton team. But when I say Suarez is the big reason why Liverpool are doing so well, people take it badly. Suarez is a much much better player than Lukaku, it's not even close. Not sure how can people believe in a magic effect from Lukaku to Everton, and at the same time, downplay Suarez' contribution.

[CanuckYNWA]

He does, at least he did last year. Glad that Barca has enough firepower to do well without him.

But if Southampton had Messi, I think they would finish in top 4 without a doubt. Not sure about winning the league though.

...lol just lol


I hate when people say oh if you didnt have this player or that player you wouldn't be where you are. Cant the same be said about southampton and Lallana or someone else? Everyone has one that is a huge part of their team that would be a huge miss if they weren't in the team. Its a stupid argument to start saying how one team would do without one of their best players without saying how the other 19 teams would be doing with out theirs too.

[ElstonGunn]

...lol just lol

Keep saying where you would be if you had this player and that player. Every single team can say that....but at the end of the day

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/form-guide.html

your team is plummeting.

I hate when people say oh if you didnt have this player or that player you wouldn't be where you are. Cant the same be said about you and Lallana or someone else? You do have that player and everyone has one that is a huge part of their team that would be a huge miss if they weren't in the team. Its a stupid argument to start saying how one team would do without one of their best players without saying how the other 19 teams would be doing with out theirs too.

He's not a southampton fan...

[ElstonGunn]

It is also strange that on here, people think Lukaku is the difference between a midtable Everton team and the current Everton team. But when I say Suarez is the big reason why Liverpool are doing so well, people take it badly. Suarez is a much much better player than Lukaku, it's not even close. Not sure how can people believe in a magic effect from Lukaku to Everton, and at the same time, downplay Suarez' contribution.

It's because you said Liverpool would be in Southampton's position without Suarez, which is, if not quite absurd, pretty clearly wrong in my eyes and most fans'. Obviously he makes a big difference.

And Everton have absolute shit backing up Lukaku. We've got Sturridge.

[CanuckYNWA]

He's not a southampton fan...

Edited to reflect that. Only read a couple of posts and it came off like he was.

Second point still stands though.

[Xxavi]

It's because you said Liverpool would be in Southampton's position without Suarez, which is, if not quite absurd, pretty clearly wrong in my eyes and most fans'. Obviously he makes a big difference.

And Everton have absolute shit backing up Lukaku. We've got Sturridge.

I said that in response to the criticism of Southampton and Swansea and the likes recently. IMO, both teams are playing and doing well for their size, squad and expenditure. To expect them to do better than the teams that are ahead of them is crazy. I mean it is not impossible, but that would be punching above their weight big time. Swansea are slightly underperforming, but not a big deal.

Anyway, that is my view.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I said that in response to the criticism of Southampton and Swansea and the likes recently. IMO, both teams are playing and doing well for their size, squad and expenditure. To expect them to do better than the teams that are ahead of them is crazy. I mean it is not impossible, but that would be punching above their weight big time. Swansea are slightly underperforming, but not a big deal.

Anyway, that is my view.

I don't think that was your motivation. I think your motivation was you didn't like people criticising your Barca hero, Laudrup. Southampton was a sideshow to that.

[ElstonGunn]

I said that in response to the criticism of Southampton and Swansea and the likes recently. IMO, both teams are playing and doing well for their size, squad and expenditure. To expect them to do better than the teams that are ahead of them is crazy. I mean it is not impossible, but that would be punching above their weight big time. Swansea are slightly underperforming, but not a big deal.

Anyway, that is my view.

Well, I agree with that for sure.

[Xxavi]

Ahead of Southampton are
Liverpool
ManCity
Arsenal
Chelsea
ManU
Tottenham

and Everton and Newcastle.

I think Everton are punching above their weight/some other teams are doing worse than they should. Newcastle have been good. But the list is OK, that's what you would expect anyway.

[ElstonGunn]

Ahead of Southampton are
Liverpool
ManCity
Arsenal
Chelsea
ManU
Tottenham

and Everton and Newcastle.

I think Everton are punching above their weight/some other teams are doing worse than they should. Newcastle have been good. But the list is OK, that's what you would expect anyway.

I don't think anyone's arguing that Southampton aren't doing reasonably well for their resources, not even the guy you originally responded to.

[Xxavi]

I don't think that was your motivation. I think your motivation was you didn't like people criticising your Barca hero, Laudrup. Southampton was a sideshow to that.

Haha, yes, I like Laudrup a lot. And I think he is still doing a decent job with Swansea. But I also believe that to expect Southampton and Swansea finish ahead of ManU, Tottenham and Everton is a big ask.