Topic: His Dark Materials - TV Series [Please use Spoiler tags]

[Nobby Reserve]

Anyone else watch this?

I've been looking forward to it for a while. I've read the books (read them to my eldest daughter, who was about 12/13 at the time) and I found them increasingly bewildering. She was completely confused. So I'm hoping the TV series will make some sense.

I'm not sure why the Golden Compass film got so much stick. I know the religious fuckwits were out in force to try to stop people watching it - presumably to keep takings down so that the more anti-religion sequels wouldn't be made - but the film was panned by a lot of book fans.

I preferred the film Lyra.

[Only Me]

The film was total poo mate.

It was a very big ask to fit that story into one film anyway, but even trying to do that without mentioning the anti religious stuff that forms the whole basis of the book made it a pointless exercise.

I love the books, and very weirdly I read them all to my daughter too - she was as captivated by them as I was.

I've been looking forward to this adaptation for ages. I thought the first episode was fine; a but sluggish maybe, but given the nature of the alternate reality that appears in the book, there's bound to be a lot of "setting up" and explanation that needs to happen for those who are unfamiliar with the source material.

I've seen reports that ep 2 is a belter, and I'm expecting [and hoping] the series gets netter with each episode as it builds towards the fantastic climax. Once they reach the North and the action really kicks in, I reckon it'll be boss.

Btw, I preferred the film Lyra too, and the film Asriel and Mrs Coulter - waste of a great cast that was.


Incidentally, Pullmans latest trilogy, The Book of Dust,  is actually shaping up to be better than the original His Dark Materials in my opinion. The first instalment, La Belle Sauvage, is set at the time when Lyra was a baby [the first scene of the telly adaptation last night in the midst of the flood is actually the end of that book]. It's a stunning story, one of the best novels I've read in years.

Volume 2 of the Book of Dust is The Secret Commonwealth, which is set when Lyra's about 21. It came out a couple of weeks ago and I'm halfway through it now. Its much darker than the other books and is shaping up to be another classic.

[Ray K]

I enjoyed the first episode. It's main job is to set up the world that the story is set in, and I thought it did a pretty good job of it. I don't think you can introduce the concept of daemons other than in a title card-type chunk of text, but I wonder if the people who missed the first 3 minutes will know what's going on. My worry is that it's almost an unfilmable concept, so we'll see.

I think the cast is good too - I thought Kidman would make for a great Mrs Coulter, but like everything else in the film she was neutered, so I'm looking forward to Ruth Wilson. James McAvoy will do a better job than Daniel Craig - Craig is fine showing the cruel side of characters (and Asriel can be quite cruel), but not the warmth and passion that McAvoy can bring.  The actress playing Lyra is perfectly fine and I have no worries on that front. 

[Alan_X]

I really enjoyed it. Quite poignant for me - it was one of my Dad’s favourites and I chose this quote for one of the readings at his funeral earlier this year:

I will love you forever, whatever happens. Till I die and after I die, and when I find my way out of the land of the dead, I'll drift about forever, all my atoms, till I find you again...I'll be looking for you Will, every moment, every single moment. And when we do find each other again, we'll cling together so tight that nothing and no one'll ever tear us apart. Every atom of me and every atom of you...We'll live in birds and flowers and dragonflies and pine trees and in clouds and in those little specks of light you see floating in sunbeams...And when they use our atoms to make new lives, they won't just be able to take one, they'll have to take two, one of you and one of me, we'll be joined so tight..."

— The Amber Spyglass

Well acted and evokes Pullman’s Oxford beautifully. Looking forward to future episodes.

[jillcwhomever]

They are among my favourite lines from the book.

I enjoyed the film I have to confess, but I'm also enjoying the series too. I think the girl playing Lyra is fine. I can't wait when the story goes north just have a feeling it will be awesome.

[Red Viper]

I never read the books but I saw The Golden Compass and enjoyed it. I remember being a bit gutted when I found out they weren't completing the film trilogy. Glad to see it be adapted into a TV show. First episode was a bit full on with how it throws you in but I thought it was promising. Great cast, great CGI so excited for the rest of it.

[Licky]

Shaping up to be much better than the film, I always thought there was too much in “Northern Lights” to squeeze into a film.

I bought “la belle sauvage” on audible a few months ago, Martin Sheen is an incredible narrator, it’s a great story that is the prequel to Northern Lights.

[TepidT2O]

I thought it was generally good...

My problem was with the gyptians.  When I read the book I’d imagined them as being Romany people. In the TV series I could t really see any link between them apart form living on boats.

A,ways the problem when you read the book first, you’ve always got your idea of what some people will look/sound like.

Philip Pullman reads is me of the audiobooks himself.  He’s great.

[markedasred]

Did you all catch the Documentary from Yentob's Imagine series of Pullman that preceded it. A great watch. Set me up nicely for the first episode. I'm so pleased it is leagues better than the film.

[Scottymuser]

Re-read the first book last week (and discovered I had only actually ever read the first book - somehow never read the sequels, so am remedying that now).  Watched both episodes yesterday back to back, and really liked them - there was a tad too much exposition, I did think, and dumbed down some of the concepts from the book, but overall a good start. 

Spoiler

Some things have been brought forward to earlier in the series, which might tie them in more neatly and explain things, but I think has robbed a couple of crucial moments of their impact later on (but we'll see).

[close]

[So… Howard Philips]

Hmmmm.

Finding it a bit slow at the moment. A touch of style over substance but will stay with it.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I really enjoyed it. Quite poignant for me - it was one of my Dad’s favourites and I chose this quote for one of the readings at his funeral earlier this year:

I will love you forever, whatever happens. Till I die and after I die, and when I find my way out of the land of the dead, I'll drift about forever, all my atoms, till I find you again...I'll be looking for you Will, every moment, every single moment. And when we do find each other again, we'll cling together so tight that nothing and no one'll ever tear us apart. Every atom of me and every atom of you...We'll live in birds and flowers and dragonflies and pine trees and in clouds and in those little specks of light you see floating in sunbeams...And when they use our atoms to make new lives, they won't just be able to take one, they'll have to take two, one of you and one of me, we'll be joined so tight..."

— The Amber Spyglass

Well acted and evokes Pullman’s Oxford beautifully. Looking forward to future episodes.

.. Cosmic stalker..

[jillcwhomever]

I am really enjoying this adaptation, hoping they go north tonight.

[No666]

Hmmmm.

Finding it a bit slow at the moment. A touch of style over substance but will stay with it.

I agree. Pullman was incredibly kind to my daughter when she was at Oxford so I watch and read everything from him wanting to enjoy it, but Jack Thorne isn't good at pacing YA to my mind. His Harry Potter play is similarly patchy. In addition, the daemons are far more fascinating in the book. They've Disneyfied Pantalaimon, making his features cuter and less sharply stoat-like than the real animal.

[Alan_X]

Really enjoying it.

[So… Howard Philips]

I am really enjoying this adaptation, hoping they go north tonight.

Well the boat is heading North now, as we speak. 

It's starting to pick up now as the plot thickens.

[Darren G]

I've never read the books, so have no reference point in terms of how accurately they have adapted them.  As a 'stand alone' though, I think that this has been fantastic so far.  Episode one was a little slow (though still enjoyable) which as mentioned in this thread is understandable given the need for world-building.  I like the way that despite being so abstract in nature it still manages to be very human too.  I also just really enjoy the whole concept and the way that the world is portrayed, both visually and in it's general tone. 

 Still a huge number of unanswered questions, which I hope will be answered as the series moves on, but I'm really enjoying the ride so far and it's proving to be an experience completely different from anything else out there right now.

[Nobby Reserve]

Still a huge number of unanswered questions

That's only going to grow!

I've read the books and still have unanswered questions.

[thejbs]

Lin Manuel Miranda is terribly cast. The movie, for all its many faults, was well cast. Scoresby needs to be someone like Woody Harrelson or, of course, Sam Eliot.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Lin Manuel Miranda is terribly cast. The movie, for all its many faults, was well cast. Scoresby needs to be someone like Woody Harrelson or, of course, Sam Eliot.

It's a bit early to judge 

[TepidT2O]

He should be basically Faceman form the A team...

[thejbs]

It's a bit early to judge 

It’s really not. He was poor. He looks like he’s going to break into song and speaks with a slick NYC accent. Scoresby is a aeronautical coyboy. He’s a fighting Texan.

[jillcwhomever]

Yet another enjoyable instalment, next week's looks even better. Can't believe how quickly the hour goes.

[TepidT2O]

The animation of the bears is quite something...

[jillcwhomever]

The animation of the bears is quite something...

Absolutely, I was wondering what the animation would be like but its pretty good.

[Elmo!]

It’s really not. He was poor. He looks like he’s going to break into song and speaks with a slick NYC accent. Scoresby is a aeronautical coyboy. He’s a fighting Texan.

I never got this impression but then I haven't seen any of his musicals, and I wouldn't have known who he was if he hadn't been on the Daily Show last week. Perhaps it is confirmation bias? You expect songs from him so that's what you saw?

[thejbs]

I’ve not seen him in musicals but he acts like he’s in one. He talks like an extra in The Hudsucker Proxy.

Scoresby of the books is a laconic Texan. He’s a cowboy. Sam Elliot was as close to the scoresby of the books as you could imagine.

[TepidT2O]

Yeah.


I’ve never seen him in a musical so I didn’t expect him to sing.

[thejbs]

Is he what you imagined when reading the books?!

[Elmo!]

Is he what you imagined when reading the books?!

It's been quite a few years since I read the books, but he's not too far off. I probably remember him being more like your description than the shows. That sort of thing doesn't bother me though, I don't think there has been any TV or film adaptation of a book which has matched my interpretation of a character! I enjoyed his portrayal.

[TepidT2O]

Is he what you imagined when reading the books?!

Not far off actually...

The Gyptians are totally different, in my head they were Romany gypsies and spoke with Romany accents

Lyra is fantastically acted though, the kid is superb.

[Alan_X]

It’s really not. He was poor. He looks like he’s going to break into song and speaks with a slick NYC accent. Scoresby is a aeronautical coyboy. He’s a fighting Texan.

Phillip Pullman says he imagined Scoresby as a mix of Lee van Cleef and the arctic explorer William Scoresby. He’s not a dumb cowboy, he’s an intelligent aeronaut and explorer. I thought Sam Elliot in the movie was over the top and predictable in a Hollywood way. 

The casting has been superb in my view and it’s worth noting Pullman is an executive producer on the series. 

Not far off actually...

The Gyptians are totally different, in my head they were Romany gypsies and spoke with Romany accents

Lyra is fantastically acted though, the kid is superb.

That’s obviously the inspiration but I like that they’ve used the fact that it’s a parallel world to broaden the casting. And I agree that Lyra is superb.

[thejbs]

Really? You didn’t imagine him as a Texan?

As good as Lyra is in terms of acting, she’s also little like Lyra as I imagined her both physically and vocally - and unlike how Pullman has described her in interviews. with Coulter, again the acting is superb but the character is too frantic and unhinged. And I agree that I imagined the gyptians differently - in my head they were more Irish 

This is not to say I’m not enjoying it, and the cast is generally good, just that I find a few characterisations are off.

[thejbs]

Phillip Pullman says he imagined Scoresby as a mix of Lee van Cleef and the arctic explorer William Scoresby. He’s not a dumb cowboy, he’s an intelligent aeronaut and explorer. I thought Sam Elliot in the movie was over the top and predictable in a Hollywood way. 

The casting has been superb in my view and it’s worth noting Pullman is an executive producer on the series. 

That’s obviously the inspiration but I like that they’ve used the fact that it’s a parallel world to broaden the casting. And I agree that Lyra is superb.

Pullman singled out Elliot’s Scoresby as being a highlight of the film - he said he got the character ‘just right’. I didn’t say he’s a dumb cowboy, but he’s a poker playing, laconic Texan who played at being in the Alamo as a kid. The inference is clear. It’s also such cowboy/western roles that Van Cleef is most remembered for. If he’d wanted a fast talking New Yorker, he’d have written him as such.

Pullman is an executive producer, not the casting director or writer on this.

[Scottymuser]

Pullman singled out Elliot’s Scoresby as being a highlight of the film - he said he got the character ‘just right’. I didn’t say he’s a dumb cowboy, but he’s a poker playing, laconic Texan who played at being in the Alamo as a kid. The inference is clear. It’s also such cowboy/western roles that Van Cleef is most remembered for. If he’d wanted a fast talking New Yorker, he’d have written him as such.

Pullman is an executive producer, not the casting director or writer on this.

Whilst that is true, if you didn't want Elliot for some reason (like, say, trying to put distance between this and the movie to hope people watch it), or you couldn't get Sam Elliot (probably as he is a MASSIVE star and would have needed a much higher salary than almost anyone else on the cast), then going slightly different is not a bad thing IMO.  And I have enjoyed the humour that  Lin's portrayal has given him - he definitely has the laconic part down, but in a faster talking, maybe more worldy way, then Elliot had.  I also didn't mind the "New York" accent - but then I don't much like the Texan drawl outside of Elliot's work anyway.  He definitely doesn't seem to be "about to break out into song" as you put it - I'd give him, so far, a solid B grade, but with a lot to do to improve (as opposed to the A-/A that Elliot got in the film) - and it certainly hasn't affected the wider quality of the show.

[jillcwhomever]

The way they have done that bear is terrific, the scene with Lyra riding him was amazing. A sad episode in many ways, looks really sinister next week as well. I'm also intrigued by the lad destined to work with Lyra. With them bringing Will in earlier, wondering if they will actually meet this series.

[Alan_X]

Fantastic episode again. I echo what Jill said about the quality of the CGI - the bear is great but also special mentions for Pan, Kyra’s daemon and Mrs Coulter’s monkey.

[TepidT2O]

It’s a actually superb...

[Scottymuser]

After a slow start, the last 2 episodes have been really good.  Thought the atmosphere etc. was fantastic last night, and even though there were a few minor changes from the books, I thought they worked better than some earlier in the season. Book Spoilers below:

Spoiler

Specifically I have seen some concerns over the fact that it was Billy Costa, and not another Gyptian boy called Tony, who was found in the hut, and also without the fish he was pretending was Ratter.  Thing is, in the books, the re-union between the children freed and the Gyptians is covered in 1 paragraph, purely as a jubilant "we done it" and Ma Costa is never seen again; this way has given the impact of finding the child a more personal note, and given Ma Costa more motivation to want the GOB dead, and has given her a phenomenal scene to remember her acting by.

[close]

I thought the CGI was fantastic, the cliff hanger at the end was done well, and things are hotting up.  Lyra is definitely getting more agency, and becoming more like the book character. Also, am enjoying the early introduction of Will and his mother.

[Nobby Reserve]

After a slow start, the last 2 episodes have been really good.  Thought the atmosphere etc. was fantastic last night, and even though there were a few minor changes from the books, I thought they worked better than some earlier in the season. Book Spoilers below:

Spoiler

Specifically I have seen some concerns over the fact that it was Billy Costa, and not another Gyptian boy called Tony, who was found in the hut, and also without the fish he was pretending was Ratter.  Thing is, in the books, the re-union between the children freed and the Gyptians is covered in 1 paragraph, purely as a jubilant "we done it" and Ma Costa is never seen again; this way has given the impact of finding the child a more personal note, and given Ma Costa more motivation to want the GOB dead, and has given her a phenomenal scene to remember her acting by.

[close]

I thought the CGI was fantastic, the cliff hanger at the end was done well, and things are hotting up.  Lyra is definitely getting more agency, and becoming more like the book character. Also, am enjoying the early introduction of Will and his mother.

Spoiler

The film has the 'intercisioned' boy as Billy Costa, too

[close]

They're merging the first bit of the second book into the later part of the first book, running the storylines of Lyra and Will in parallel. It actually makes the story run smoother for a TV series (as the books tend to jolt from one to the next)