Topic: May 2019 Local Elections (officially nothing to do with Brexit but, you know...)

[Jiminy Cricket]

Andy, this isn’t the Labour Party.

It’s mash up of the Marxist, communists and Socialist workers.  They don’t follow the principles of the Labour Party.

I can’t vote for them whilst those are in charge, but I hope that a decent honest party that prioritises what will actually work for he people of this country will return.

Unless the Labour Party change the method for electing the leader and internal power-structures, then the Marxists, communists and Socialist Workers will continue to control the party for the foreseeable future. What incentive is there for this cabal of burn-the-house-down (and glory in the resultant utopian socialist republic which will rise out - phoenix-like - from the ashes) to change the system which enables them to control the Party? Irrespective of what Corbyn does (re: Brexit), it is difficult to see how the Labour Party recovers from this within a timescale which allows for change and rehabilitation, and enables disaffected Labour voters to return to the fold.

Given the wider changes within politics, political discourse and plain, simple discourse, it might be that a realignment of political groups and parties is inevitable. It might all boil down to a broad-church centrist party of rational actors attracting thinking people from a wide spectrum of political views, vs two parties of fruit-cakes (one on the left, one on the right, and both racist, of course). When a large percentage of the population place more trust in their FB and Twitter feeds than in verifiable experts (even refusing to vaccinate their children because of what the tin-foil-hat brigade tell them), something, surely must give.

I now have a much better appreciation of why 'may you live in interesting times', is intended as a curse.

[TepidT2O]

Yeah... you may well be right there...

[TepidT2O]

John McDonnell

Today:

‘I never predicted 400 seat gain, I just said that’s what the polls said.’

‘There are all sorts of different factors... I am aiming for about 400 if we can. But, as I say I am always really cautious about local election results, you can never tell.’

Wednesday:
‘I’m aiming for 400 ..if we can’


I actually thought a more honest kind of politics would be good.  But it just brought more bare faced lies.

[Elmo!]

John McDonnell

Today:

‘I never predicted 400 seat gain, I just said that’s what the polls said.’

‘There are all sorts of different factors... I am aiming for about 400 if we can. But, as I say I am always really cautious about local election results, you can never tell.’

Wednesday:
‘I’m aiming for 400 ..if we can’


I actually thought a more honest kind of politics would be good.  But it just brought more bare faced lies.

To be fair, going by those quotes alone, an aim is different to a prediction.

[Red-Soldier]

My Local CLP has just made a post on FB saying that it's clear Labour are the main opposition to the Tories in the area and that they are ready for a GE.

Clearly maths isn't their strong point.

[TepidT2O]

To be fair, going by those quotes alone, an aim is different to a prediction.

Agreed.


But he still lied

[Ghost Town]

It's like they're trying to make the vulnerable dependent on Labour by creating a Brexit crisis that only they can fix by being elected. "If you want this sorted quickly you have no choice but to vote for us. Otherwise you'll suffer for years."

Hmm. That might be a pretty astute comment, actually. I wouldn't put it past them, with their preference for labyrinthine thinking over the simple, honest approach.

[Ghost Town]

My Local CLP has just made a post on FB saying that it's clear Labour are the main opposition to the Tories in the area and that they are ready for a GE.

Clearly maths isn't their strong point.

Brexit and Trump, between them, have been a major game changer for politics. The balloon has gone up, the cat's out of the bag, the Rubicon has been crossed. Politicians have realised that you can simply lie; outright, barefaced lies, with impunity, and people will lap it up. There's no longer any need to justify one's words or actions; no need for them to be demonstrably true.

And that other crucial check and balancing factor, that used to keep politics relatively honest - shame - has gone out with the baby and the bathwater. Politicians no longer feel shame at being caught out in a lie. They don't even bother to shrug and carry on, they just carry on.

Lie, lie, lie, say things how you want them to be, not how they are. The public and media don't care if you're a liar so why should you?

[The Gulleysucker]

Hmm. That might be a pretty astute comment, actually. I wouldn't put it past them, with their preference for labyrinthine thinking over the simple, honest approach.

It's something we've mentioned before on here ...

Of course, there are some on the far left that would likely relish the chance of an opportunity to have running battles on the streets with Fascists and to build barricades, possibly more than they would spend actually providing any realistic and implementable policies for the people in times of peace.  I do wonder sometimes if perhaps that's what some secretly desire most out of all this potential chaos, to be able to tear it all down, rip it all up, and then start again, a chance to have their idea of a year zero.


There has always been a distinct possibility of a desire amongst some of the leadership cabal for Disaster Socialism as this Guardian article later suggested .

[Elmo!]

Agreed.


But he still lied

I'm hesitant to defend McDOnnell here because I have no time for him, but again based on those quotes alone, I don't see a lie.

[Red Beret]

Hmm. That might be a pretty astute comment, actually. I wouldn't put it past them, with their preference for labyrinthine thinking over the simple, honest approach.

It's the kind of attitude an abusive partner adopts towards someone trying to leave them.  It's another form of project fear.

[Zeb]

To be fair, going by those quotes alone, an aim is different to a prediction.

Yeah, I agree. Aspiration not forecast - still a useful marker for what Labour thought would have been a 'good' result. Think a reasonable measure of Labour doing just enough would have been winning 100 seats, with the picture of them being ahead in the polls and heading into government increasing as that goes up. Instead we're at "1000 is bigger than 100" takes on the number of losses from those promoting "Labour +8%" polling not so long ago.

[Red Beret]

To be fair, going by those quotes alone, an aim is different to a prediction.

I think the simplest test to apply is to imagine what he would have said if Labour had actually made or surpassed the 400 "aim".  I'm going to go for the "exceeded expectations" line.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Yeah... you may well be right there...

A mixture of me trying to game-out the situation, disillusionment, and simple pessimism. But the situation is way too chaotic, with way too many unknowns to make solid predictions, even by those with far more knowledge than me. All any of us can do is guess at the outcome. Maybe I am not being that pessimistic in my prediction. After all, there are far worse possible outcomes.

[Danny Boys Dad]

Labour have lost control of Bolton and Darlington Councils after some smaller parties, including the Lib Dems, have allied themselves with the Tories to take control.

Lib Dems backing the Tories, thought they weren't going to do that again?

[Elmo!]

Labour have lost control of Bolton and Darlington Councils after some smaller parties, including the Lib Dems, have allied themselves with the Tories to take control.

Lib Dems backing the Tories, thought they weren't going to do that again?

Labour do the same in Scotland.

[Danny Boys Dad]

Labour do the same in Scotland.

There's nothing some people won't do for a little sniff of power.

Lib Dem leader in Darlington says that Lib Dems and Tories are singing from the same hymn sheet, Lib Dem leader in Bolton says that he has been given reassurances that the Tories will look after vulnerable people, not sure where he's been since 2010.

[Yorkykopite]

There's nothing some people won't do for a little sniff of power.

They all do it.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/21/sturgeon-refuses-to-rule-out-snp-coalitions-with-tories-in-local-councils

[Elmo!]

They all do it.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/21/sturgeon-refuses-to-rule-out-snp-coalitions-with-tories-in-local-councils

Have they actually done it though?

[CornerFlag]

There's nothing some people won't do for a little sniff of power.

Read that as powder.  Probably still applies...

[Mutton Geoff]

Read that as powder.  Probably still applies...

Everyone is up for the crack
























of Dawn

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Labour do the same in Scotland.

chris Williamson did that when he ran derby council

[Mutton Geoff]

chris Williamson did that when he ran derby council

That would be according to the records when he was a Blairight Council Leader. So you could be right. 

[Trada]

Furious parish demands election recount after Tory candidates win over 3,000 votes each from only 2,477 ballot papers

'Tonight we have our first council meeting and we cannot be sure that the right people are sitting on the council'

A group of angry residents have launched a legal bid for a local recount after an apparent error led to councillors being elected with over a thousand more votes than the number of ballot papers submitted.

People from from the parish town of Highworth, in Wiltshire, have demanded a recount of the 2 May local election after 10 Tory candidates received more than than 3,000 votes each despite a total of 2,477 people voting.

The local borough council returning officer, responsible for the election count, conceded that there had “clearly” been an error but told residents that, once the result was declared, there was nothing she could legally do about it.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/highworth-council-election-count-petition-high-court-local-elections/?fbclid=IwAR08gwibPWUgMoSiqw7RVIn9W3vQ6F5ap30rF_FqaQBZLgUKQ0VMYv8p1RM&utm_campaign=do-you-see-the-european-elections-as-a-d-vi69&utm_customer=inews&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=opinary

[Jiminy Cricket]

Furious parish demands election recount after Tory candidates win over 3,000 votes each from only 2,477 ballot papers

'Tonight we have our first council meeting and we cannot be sure that the right people are sitting on the council'

A group of angry residents have launched a legal bid for a local recount after an apparent error led to councillors being elected with over a thousand more votes than the number of ballot papers submitted.

People from from the parish town of Highworth, in Wiltshire, have demanded a recount of the 2 May local election after 10 Tory candidates received more than than 3,000 votes each despite a total of 2,477 people voting.

The local borough council returning officer, responsible for the election count, conceded that there had “clearly” been an error but told residents that, once the result was declared, there was nothing she could legally do about it.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/highworth-council-election-count-petition-high-court-local-elections/?fbclid=IwAR08gwibPWUgMoSiqw7RVIn9W3vQ6F5ap30rF_FqaQBZLgUKQ0VMYv8p1RM&utm_campaign=do-you-see-the-european-elections-as-a-d-vi69&utm_customer=inews&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=opinary

And, your point?

[Riquende]

And, your point?

I'm interested in the 'result is declared therefore law' bit... does that mean that whatever the returning officer reads out trumps the actual votes cast?

I realise that this was a miscount rather than malicious cheating, but if you could somehow get made returning officer of a high profile constituency in a key election...

[Zeb]

I'm interested in the 'result is declared therefore law' bit... does that mean that whatever the returning officer reads out trumps the actual votes cast?

I realise that this was a miscount rather than malicious cheating, but if you could somehow get made returning officer of a high profile constituency in a key election...

Just needs those legally able to challenge the result to do it within the 21 day time limit, but, yeah, if no-one eligible to challenge it wanted to do that then it stands. Chances of it going unchallenged would seem to decrease with the perceived importance of the election.