Author Topic: Racism in Football  (Read 149120 times)

Offline rob1966

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #800 on: June 30, 2020, 10:07:15 am »
This has been highlighted on here quite a few times now

Football commentators must address racial 'bias' says PFA
By Laura Scott

BBC Sport

There is "evident bias" in some football commentary relating to the skin tone of players, according to a new study.

In 80 televised games analysed across four European leagues, including the Premier League, players with a lighter skin tone were praised more often for their intelligence and work ethic.

Meanwhile, those with darker skin tones were "significantly" more likely to be "reduced to their physical characteristics or athletic ability", such as their pace and power.

The research, conducted by Danish firm RunRepeat in association with the Professional Footballers' Association (PFA), concluded that the findings showed "bias from commentators".

"The continuous praise for players with lighter skin tone for their skill level, leadership and cognitive abilities combined with the continuous criticism for players with darker skin tone is likely to influence the perception of the soccer watching public," said the researchers.

PFA equalities executive Jason Lee told BBC Sport: "It was always important to collate information rather than just speaking about the fact we believe there is unconscious bias within sport, and across society really.

"If you're describing two types of players, one is white and one is black, and they are both doing exactly the same thing and yet for the black player you are picking up on the negative side of it and for the white player it's the positive side, what I mean by that is a black player will be perceived as having pace and power and aggression, and a white player will have ingenuity and creativity and determination, different traits, when it could be the reverse."

This research comes amid pressure for the football industry to take clear steps to improving equality of opportunity and eliminating racial bias.

Lee added: "I think it's damaging in the long term because when players leave their playing career and they go into coaching or managing, or want to be seen in a more positive light, people will have already built up this perception because for 10 or 20 years all you've heard of is that person is quick, powerful and aggressive, and you've not heard they are actually intellectual, articulate and [have] a quite different set of skills."

How the research worked
The Racial Bias in Football Commentary study was based on English language live television commentary from 80 games during the 2019-20 season, split evenly between Italy's Serie A, France's Ligue 1, Spain's La Liga and the Premier League.

2,074 statements were analysed, which related to 643 unique players.

Rather than categorise players by race, they were coded according to their skin tone, using the database from the Football Manager 2020 video game.

Players were given a score from one to 20 according to skin tone and then designated as either "players with lighter skin tone" or "players with darker skin tone".

Comments were categorised as being positive or negative, and opinions were analysed rather than statements of fact, which were used as the control group to see if bias was evident.

Key findings
The study found that commentators were "6.59 times more likely to comment on the strength of a player with darker skin tone" and "3.38 times more likely to comment on the speed of a player with darker skin tone" than lighter-skinned players.

In relation to intelligence and work ethic, more than 60% of praise was aimed at players with a lighter skin tone.

There was also certain attributes that were brought up more often for those with darker skin tones, including form.

But the researchers found that "differences are most stark when commentators are discussing physical characteristics/athletic abilities".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53226508
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Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #801 on: June 30, 2020, 10:20:32 am »
This has been highlighted on here quite a few times now

Football commentators must address racial 'bias' says PFA
By Laura Scott

BBC Sport

There is "evident bias" in some football commentary relating to the skin tone of players, according to a new study.

In 80 televised games analysed across four European leagues, including the Premier League, players with a lighter skin tone were praised more often for their intelligence and work ethic.

Meanwhile, those with darker skin tones were "significantly" more likely to be "reduced to their physical characteristics or athletic ability", such as their pace and power.

The research, conducted by Danish firm RunRepeat in association with the Professional Footballers' Association (PFA), concluded that the findings showed "bias from commentators".

"The continuous praise for players with lighter skin tone for their skill level, leadership and cognitive abilities combined with the continuous criticism for players with darker skin tone is likely to influence the perception of the soccer watching public," said the researchers.

PFA equalities executive Jason Lee told BBC Sport: "It was always important to collate information rather than just speaking about the fact we believe there is unconscious bias within sport, and across society really.

"If you're describing two types of players, one is white and one is black, and they are both doing exactly the same thing and yet for the black player you are picking up on the negative side of it and for the white player it's the positive side, what I mean by that is a black player will be perceived as having pace and power and aggression, and a white player will have ingenuity and creativity and determination, different traits, when it could be the reverse."

This research comes amid pressure for the football industry to take clear steps to improving equality of opportunity and eliminating racial bias.

Lee added: "I think it's damaging in the long term because when players leave their playing career and they go into coaching or managing, or want to be seen in a more positive light, people will have already built up this perception because for 10 or 20 years all you've heard of is that person is quick, powerful and aggressive, and you've not heard they are actually intellectual, articulate and [have] a quite different set of skills."

How the research worked
The Racial Bias in Football Commentary study was based on English language live television commentary from 80 games during the 2019-20 season, split evenly between Italy's Serie A, France's Ligue 1, Spain's La Liga and the Premier League.

2,074 statements were analysed, which related to 643 unique players.

Rather than categorise players by race, they were coded according to their skin tone, using the database from the Football Manager 2020 video game.

Players were given a score from one to 20 according to skin tone and then designated as either "players with lighter skin tone" or "players with darker skin tone".

Comments were categorised as being positive or negative, and opinions were analysed rather than statements of fact, which were used as the control group to see if bias was evident.

Key findings
The study found that commentators were "6.59 times more likely to comment on the strength of a player with darker skin tone" and "3.38 times more likely to comment on the speed of a player with darker skin tone" than lighter-skinned players.

In relation to intelligence and work ethic, more than 60% of praise was aimed at players with a lighter skin tone.

There was also certain attributes that were brought up more often for those with darker skin tones, including form.

But the researchers found that "differences are most stark when commentators are discussing physical characteristics/athletic abilities".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53226508

I mentioned this exact thing in the Discrimination in the Premier League thread.

It’s noticeable just from watching a season of premier league football for example. It grates a lot to see and hear this on such a regular basis

Offline rob1966

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #802 on: June 30, 2020, 10:51:52 am »
I mentioned this exact thing in the Discrimination in the Premier League thread.

It’s noticeable just from watching a season of premier league football for example. It grates a lot to see and hear this on such a regular basis

Finally its been brought to national attention, now the commentators need to look at themselves and change they way they speak. They just need to ensure they don't go too far the other way, if a player, regardless of skin colour, is powerful and uses his physical attributes well, don't be scared to say it, just don't define them by it (unless its all they have to their game that is). Mane and Mo both use their pace and physical strength to their advantage, so discuss it when they use it, but never lose sight of the fact that both have huge amounts of skill and ability and this is which is what sets them apart from other players who play in their positions.
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Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #803 on: June 30, 2020, 11:10:32 am »
Finally its been brought to national attention, now the commentators need to look at themselves and change they way they speak. They just need to ensure they don't go too far the other way, if a player, regardless of skin colour, is powerful and uses his physical attributes well, don't be scared to say it, just don't define them by it (unless its all they have to their game that is). Mane and Mo both use their pace and physical strength to their advantage, so discuss it when they use it, but never lose sight of the fact that both have huge amounts of skill and ability and this is which is what sets them apart from other players who play in their positions.

Well said mate, it’s not a ‘don’t say it’ thing, it’s using things at the right times and in the right context

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #804 on: June 30, 2020, 11:34:14 am »
Well said mate, it’s not a ‘don’t say it’ thing, it’s using things at the right times and in the right context

Mate are you not more worried about why there is this disparity?

As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #805 on: June 30, 2020, 11:38:47 am »
I'd say Henderson and Milner are strong powerful players whereas Keita is more skilful.

But most commentators are lazy and cliche ridden so no surprises really.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #806 on: June 30, 2020, 11:41:46 am »
I'd say Henderson and Milner are strong powerful players whereas Keita is more skilful.

But most commentators are lazy and cliche ridden so no surprises really.

Yeah they all had Keita down as a DM before he arrived, it seems based on the existence of Kante.  Small black man = DM

As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Perham

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #807 on: June 30, 2020, 11:55:31 am »
Completely agree with this. Like how Salah and Mane are divers and cheats, whereas when Kane dives it's clever and "what any striker should do". Or they'll just insist that it wasn't a dive at all.
if I came home to allison in bed with my wife I'd ask him to phone Virgil to see if he wanted to pop round too.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #808 on: June 30, 2020, 12:00:17 pm »
Completely agree with this. Like how Salah and Mane are divers and cheats, whereas when Kane dives it's clever and "what any striker should do". Or they'll just insist that it wasn't a dive at all.

Id say thats more Xenophobic to be honest. I think they would back Rashford or Tammy Abraham over a white foreigner on the diving front.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Perham

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #809 on: June 30, 2020, 12:04:14 pm »
Id say thats more Xenophobic to be honest. I think they would back Rashford or Tammy Abraham over a white foreigner on the diving front.
Good point
if I came home to allison in bed with my wife I'd ask him to phone Virgil to see if he wanted to pop round too.

Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #810 on: June 30, 2020, 01:36:09 pm »
Mate are you not more worried about why there is this disparity?



Mate there isn't enough time in the world for me to go into the complexities of why this stuff happens. Some of this is so ingrained into society it's ridiculous and I hate it. Its way too easily dismissed too and as a black male having grown up watching football regularly i've seen and heard it more times than I could remember. I experienced it playing on more than one occasion too and even changed position to a role where my physical attributes were required a lot less only to see them championed as some saving grace when in reality my reading of the game was what was seeing me win possession more regularly than my teammates or opponents without going to ground, it was scarcely highlighted though.

A hell of a lot needs to change and I think its underestimated how much the casual football fan takes from pundits and commentators. The post you quoted was me simply not wanting to go into too much detail

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #811 on: July 7, 2020, 10:42:01 pm »
I mentioned this exact thing in the Discrimination in the Premier League thread.

It’s noticeable just from watching a season of premier league football for example. It grates a lot to see and hear this on such a regular basis

You did mate, and since you highlighted it I've made a conscious effort to listen a bit closer and I think you are right. I heard something tonight on the radio that brought your post back to the front of my mind. It was Alvin Martin, he was talking about the Chelsea defense, and he said "Azpulicueta and Christensen are both thinkers, Zouma and James are supreme athletes"
It didn't sound great to be honest

Offline Jebediah

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #812 on: October 15, 2020, 05:29:33 pm »
Perhaps ironically, the ban came on the back of a report to police from a Jewish Israeli fan...

West Ham fan banned from football for three years for racially abusing Liverpool forward Mohamed Salah

A West Ham United fan has been banned from football for three years after pleading guilty to racially abusing Liverpool forward Mohamed Salah during a Premier League match in January.

Bradley Thumwood, 48, from Pickford Road in Bexleyheath, was handed a three-year football banning order after appearing at Thames Magistrates’ Court on Tuesday following an incident at the London Stadium towards the start of the year.

In a video that was captured during the Premier League encounter, a male voice can be heard shouting: “Salah you f****** Muslim. F****** Muslim c***. F*** off.”

Thumwood pleaded guilty to a racially aggravated Section 5 public order, and he was also fined £400 on top of the football stadium ban. He was also told to pay a victim surcharge and costs of £215.


West Ham have welcomed the ban and promised to take a “zero-tolerance approach” to any future incidents of a similar nature, but also stressed that they will look to educate Thumwood to reform his views.


A West Ham United spokesperson said: “West Ham United is unequivocal in its stance - we have a zero-tolerance approach to any form of discrimination. Equality and diversity are at the heart of the Football Club and we are committed to continue ensuring that everyone who enters London Stadium is free to enjoy watching their team play football in an inclusive environment.

“The club works closely with Kick It Out and our fan group Bame Hammers. In conjunction with those parties, the club will offer educational sessions to the individual in question in an effort to reform their views, whilst reserving the right to uphold their indefinite bans, should those efforts prove unsuccessful.”

“We do not, and will not tolerate hate crime of any kind at football matches and will take action against those who are found to have committed these kinds of crimes during games,” PC Sheldon said.

“We are committed to working closely with football clubs to identify anyone behaving inappropriately and breaking the law. We are grateful for the support of West Ham United Football Club and for their commitment to eradicating this type of behaviour.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/west-ham-fan-racist-mohamed-salah-liverpool-video-muslim-abuse-b1034537.html
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Offline bird_lfc

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #813 on: November 13, 2020, 11:45:48 am »
John Barnes Twitter making for interesting reading at the moment.

I’m all for fighting the fight but he’s making himself look a bit of an idiot

Offline gerrardisgod

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #814 on: November 13, 2020, 11:50:55 am »
He’s never great at making a point on Twitter, he just doesn’t know how to work it or word things correctly. He only just learnt how to make a thread of his tweets the other week.

When it comes to giving an opinion through interviews, he’s brilliant.
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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #815 on: November 13, 2020, 12:57:09 pm »
Nobody will dare ruin their career by telling him he’s talking shite

Just suck it up I’m afraid

Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #816 on: November 13, 2020, 06:43:04 pm »
Think his bigger point is lost completely in what he's said

His bigger point IMO is very true

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #817 on: November 14, 2020, 07:20:28 pm »
Think his bigger point is lost completely in what he's said

His bigger point IMO is very true

He has done a good (aleit unwitting) job of flushing out the racists

His wider point is interesting,  I always found it strange that Norwich fired Chris Hughton when Norwich were 17th in April in 2014, especially when he had a good track record of getting teams out of the championship.

However Farke was relegated with Norwich rock bottom no hopers the whole season and gets to keep his job for the following year. Who knows what is happening behind the scenes, but that looks weird to me looking on from the outside

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #818 on: November 30, 2020, 09:29:03 pm »
Anyone watching this Anton Ferdinand documentary?

Still to this day it's unbelievable that John Terry got away with it. The lack of proper interrogation by FA officer during John Terry’s interview about the incident is troubling to say the least.

Offline whtwht

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #819 on: November 30, 2020, 09:40:21 pm »
Anyone watching this Anton Ferdinand documentary?

Still to this day it's unbelievable that John Terry got away with it. The lack of proper interrogation by FA officer during John Terry’s interview about the incident is troubling to say the least.

Blatanty guilty but he was England Captain so nevermind nothing to see here. Moving along.
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Offline KevLFC

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #820 on: November 30, 2020, 10:02:44 pm »
Anyone watching this Anton Ferdinand documentary?

Still to this day it's unbelievable that John Terry got away with it. The lack of proper interrogation by FA officer during John Terry’s interview about the incident is troubling to say the least.

He was guilty but unfortunately the abuse Anton suffered should not happen and still does.

Offline rawcusk8

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #821 on: November 30, 2020, 10:04:27 pm »
Anyone watching this Anton Ferdinand documentary?

Still to this day it's unbelievable that John Terry got away with it. The lack of proper interrogation by FA officer during John Terry’s interview about the incident is troubling to say the least.
Just watched it and it was a tough watch. I’d say I’m amazed he got away with it but really I’m not surprised at all. The sad thing is 9 years later, not much has changed. Also, John Terry not replying to Anton Ferdinands email, he’ll always be a classless c*nt.

Plenty of credit to Anton Ferdinand, thought he came across as a classy bloke and really showed great charachter to reach out to Terry even though he didn’t need to.
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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #822 on: November 30, 2020, 11:35:46 pm »
That was a tough watch to be honest, but very worthwhile to see. As others have said the bit of the interview that they got to hear from the FA official was not impressive at all. What the hell was she doing. I feel for him and his family. The fact that he blames himself for not speaking out more and feeling it led to his poor mother's problems after were dreadful to see. Credit to to Jordan Henderson for his part at the end, I may be in the minority when I say this, but like him I feel the club got it wrong. But the important thing is to learn from it and make sure that we react differently should anything happen again.
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Offline Dull Tools

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #823 on: December 1, 2020, 08:50:15 am »
That was a tough watch to be honest, but very worthwhile to see. As others have said the bit of the interview that they got to hear from the FA official was not impressive at all. What the hell was she doing. I feel for him and his family. The fact that he blames himself for not speaking out more and feeling it led to his poor mother's problems after were dreadful to see. Credit to to Jordan Henderson for his part at the end, I may be in the minority when I say this, but like him I feel the club got it wrong. But the important thing is to learn from it and make sure that we react differently should anything happen again.
It was awful at the time and it is awful now.

I don't know why they blank out the twitter names of the people who are abusing him. They don't deserve anonymity.

Terry is a Chelsea boy through and through. The culture at that club is wrong and still is.

Proud of Henderson and he has shown over the last 2 years that he should be England captain with his help for the NHS and speaking out on issues like this.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #824 on: December 5, 2020, 03:19:34 pm »
The person from the FA interviews John Terry like she's his mate
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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #825 on: December 5, 2020, 04:20:21 pm »
What a bunch of pricks. Stay classy guys

https://twitter.com/HammerzOliver/status/1335244473069088774
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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #826 on: December 5, 2020, 04:29:52 pm »
What a bunch of pricks. Stay classy guys

https://twitter.com/HammerzOliver/status/1335244473069088774
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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #827 on: December 5, 2020, 04:30:30 pm »
What a bunch of pricks. Stay classy guys

https://twitter.com/HammerzOliver/status/1335244473069088774

And a lot of the replies are equally as depressing

Offline smicer07

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #828 on: December 5, 2020, 04:39:09 pm »
Racism is well and truly alive and kicking in this country. Not helped by the dickheads we have in charge of both the FA and the country. c*nts.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #829 on: December 5, 2020, 04:39:31 pm »
That's genuinley quite shocking. I think forcing a bunch of lads to "take the knee" is a fairly hollow gesture that doesn't do very much to address the actual issue, but something tells me that's not why Millwall fans are booing.

Interesting to see where this goes now, because I don't think that'll be the end of the booing, and they won't want to get rid of it now and be seen as cowards giving in to racism. Whole can of worms.

Offline smicer07

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #830 on: December 5, 2020, 04:41:08 pm »
That's genuinley quite shocking. I think forcing a bunch of lads to "take the knee" is a fairly hollow gesture that doesn't do very much to address the actual issue, but something tells me that's not why Millwall fans are booing.

Interesting to see where this goes now, because I don't think that'll be the end of the booing, and they won't want to get rid of it now and be seen as cowards giving in to racism. Whole can of worms.

By booing you're basically saying black lives don't matter. Weirdos.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #831 on: December 5, 2020, 04:45:03 pm »
By booing you're basically saying black lives don't matter. Weirdos.

I think that's exactly what Millwall fans are doing. I've already seen a few on Twitter justifying it by saying they're only against "Marxist BLM," as if these people have the slightest idea what Marxism is.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #832 on: December 5, 2020, 04:50:10 pm »
I think that's exactly what Millwall fans are doing. I've already seen a few on Twitter justifying it by saying they're only against "Marxist BLM," as if these people have the slightest idea what Marxism is.

You can always trust Millwall to bring the game into disrepute.

Raze them and their shithole of a ground from the earth.

Deplorable club, even more deplorable support.
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Offline Clayton Bigsby

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #833 on: December 5, 2020, 04:53:12 pm »
Was always going to happen. Wonder what happens next. A fine?

Offline Caligula?

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #834 on: December 5, 2020, 05:00:23 pm »
Was always going to happen. Wonder what happens next. A fine?

Points deduction. Absolute shithole of a club and fans.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #835 on: December 5, 2020, 05:00:46 pm »
Disgraceful to boo it, but predictable.

Is it just going to go on forever now though (taking the knee before every game)? They  won't be last set of fans to react like that. There's enough Brexity fanbases full of angry white men.
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Offline 12C

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #836 on: December 5, 2020, 05:05:01 pm »
Was always going to happen. Wonder what happens next. A fine?

Well it isn’t going to be difficult for the club to find out who was booing and bar the scum for life.
If they have the will...
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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #837 on: December 5, 2020, 05:07:52 pm »
Millwall. Who knew.

That’s almost to be expected, Twitter replies are more depressing but hopefully some rabid fans echo chamber.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #838 on: December 5, 2020, 05:19:17 pm »
I think that's exactly what Millwall fans are doing. I've already seen a few on Twitter justifying it by saying they're only against "Marxist BLM," as if these people have the slightest idea what Marxism is.

They are the football club equivalent of a bot account with Union Jack and St. George's Cross flags in their bio alongside former soldier, Brexit, #nolockdown and a few Trump/Frottage retweets

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #839 on: December 5, 2020, 05:26:04 pm »
I would say shame on them, but its Millwall and sadly they have no shame. Morons.  :butt
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