Author Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General  (Read 1339325 times)

Online 4pool

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #80 on: August 8, 2017, 12:57:57 am »
Don't try to convince me.

It's shit. There will be human bias. Which will be overlooked because after all they correct a few calls.

People want perfection, don't say they don't, but VAR won't bring it.

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Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #81 on: August 8, 2017, 07:57:50 am »
VAR won't bring it.

VAR might not be THE solution. But it is definitely better to have an video evidence based refreeing system as opposed to visual opinion based refreeing system.

Given the options in front of us, what do you think is better than VAR? Serious question.

Offline Jake

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #82 on: August 8, 2017, 08:18:10 am »
Can't believe footy is movie towards video referees, so disappointed. May as well not have a ref on the pitch at all and whenever a foul is made just have a man in a box blow a klaxon. Then the cheerleaders come out and sell us some Monster Energy drink whilst the video ref decides whether the goal tender did a strike down of the goal attack. All us in the stadium are bored as fuck that our game has been watered down but Jared Hasselhoff in Tampa Bay watching on his lay Z boy swigs his bottle of bud and is truly happy with that fair play of soccerball.

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Offline Broad Spectrum

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #83 on: August 8, 2017, 12:54:17 pm »
So sick of hearing old farts crying about this being introduced. Just out of interest, for those old enough to remember the back pass rule being introduced in 92, how many opposed that at the time? That changed the pace of the game drastically, with keepers having to hoof the ball forward as opposed to picking it up following a back pass.

I think those who believe VAR will eliminate ALL the incorrect decisions are delusional, but those who think it has nothing to add to the game are equally as delusional. There are difficult situations such as offsides, which can be very difficult to review, especially if the player who's clean through is called offside and stops play, but a review shows he was onside.

One thing that the Confed cup showed though was this needs to be in the hands of the 4th official, as opposed to the ref running to the sideline and looking himself. There was a blatant red card in a match which even on review, was given as a yellow. That was just a case of the officials not having the bottle to send off the player, despite seeing the challenge multiple times. I think it's best for the ref to request a review, and then another party reviews the decision (NBA, Cricket etc.)

VAR will never be a solution to ALL the incorrect decisions in football, but provided its implemented in only specific areas where the time taken to review is short and has minimal impact on the flow of the match, there's no reason why this shouldn't be rolled out across top level football over the coming years.

Online 4pool

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #84 on: August 8, 2017, 03:35:37 pm »
VAR might not be THE solution. But it is definitely better to have an video evidence based refreeing system as opposed to visual opinion based refreeing system.

Given the options in front of us, what do you think is better than VAR? Serious question.

There doesn't have to be an option other than to train Ref more adequately.

If you want an option here it is:

Rotate Refs away from their home FA.

So take the top 5 leagues in Europe: England, Spain, Italy, Germany, & France. ( Same for all League in Uefa, just take the next 5 countries and rotate them, going down the list of all Associations within Uefa)

The England Refs will work Spain in 2018, Italy 2019, Germany 2020, France 2021, then back to Spain for 2022..etc.

No club bias can be associated with the Ref because he's not from the particular FA of his birth. Just like there isn't one Premier League Ref who grew up supporting Man Utd.. ::), this eliminates the hypocrisy. You also don't have the problem of a "local" Ref doing a local match. The Ref's will be working another country.

As the Refs rotate Associations, we'll hopefully see more uniformed decisions. Refs from all Associations will meet each summer for their own summer camp and be briefed on making calls per Uefa instructions.
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #85 on: August 12, 2017, 02:27:18 pm »
Implement it. Now.

Offline Pensby

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #86 on: August 12, 2017, 08:45:16 pm »
Only if it can be used in every game in a given competition. In rugby (either code) it is used only at the televised games. To my mind this creates an imbalance as not all matches are then played to the same rules.
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Offline TheShanklyGates

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #87 on: August 12, 2017, 09:02:26 pm »
Only if it can be used in every game in a given competition. In rugby (either code) it is used only at the televised games. To my mind this creates an imbalance as not all matches are then played to the same rules.

Every game in the Premier League is televised so I wouldn't have thought this would be an issue?
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Offline Thats So Dimitar

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #88 on: August 13, 2017, 06:32:16 am »
How easy is actually to call offsides as a ref? Gotta be near impossible to tell half the time as the ref on the field since you aren't in line, even as the linesman it must be hard to look across the lone and tell if a players leg is stuck out a bit at the moment another player plays him the ball. Some of the calls are blatantly shocking, but I can't imagine it is always as easy a job as it is made out to be here.
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Online 4pool

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #89 on: August 13, 2017, 02:11:52 pm »
How easy is actually to call offsides as a ref? Gotta be near impossible to tell half the time as the ref on the field since you aren't in line, even as the linesman it must be hard to look across the lone and tell if a players leg is stuck out a bit at the moment another player plays him the ball. Some of the calls are blatantly shocking, but I can't imagine it is always as easy a job as it is made out to be here.

You're relying on the VAR official to know the rules and implement them properly. They won't. Which is why just like live matches where officials get it wrong, instead the VAR will get it wrong.
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Online 4pool

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #90 on: August 13, 2017, 03:17:59 pm »
Bit of a mele on the touch line. Kaka plays around with his ex-team mate and friend...VAR gives him a Red. Kaka and opponent both tell the ref it was nothing...Ref says VAR tells him Red. Off goes Kaka..

http://www.espnfc.us/video/mls-highlights/150/video/3178514/watch-kaka-sent-off-after-bizarre-var-ruling

letter of the law excuse will be used..
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Offline penga

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #91 on: August 13, 2017, 04:50:54 pm »
Bit of a mele on the touch line. Kaka plays around with his ex-team mate and friend...VAR gives him a Red. Kaka and opponent both tell the ref it was nothing...Ref says VAR tells him Red. Off goes Kaka..

http://www.espnfc.us/video/mls-highlights/150/video/3178514/watch-kaka-sent-off-after-bizarre-var-ruling

letter of the law excuse will be used..
Don't give a fuck. Would rather we had the 3 points against Watford instead of them being allowed to score an illegitimate goal - same old story from last season.

Online 4pool

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #92 on: August 13, 2017, 05:07:40 pm »
Don't give a fuck. Would rather we had the 3 points against Watford instead of them being allowed to score an illegitimate goal - same old story from last season.

In the first place, the VAR wouldn't have taken the Watford goal away.

Here's what people really don't understand. The VAR official has seconds to review an incident. He can't take 5 minutes , then call the play back.

Just like the Ref--who did not call interference on Mignolet and the Linesman-- who focused on the ball being played level into the box with Britos "level"...he would have given the goal as well.

Most commentators said he same..he's level it's a goal.

Only until someone REALLY reviews the incident, did the interference issue even get brought up. Not until after the match was over.

Further, Britos had goal scoring parts of his body in front to the cross. he should have been called off sides. Not until someone REALLY reviews the incident and looks with a critical eye can you spot that.

Again, the VAR will start with the premise that the call is correct. Only if he sees something missed that is blatant will he bring it to the attention of the Ref. Who still has final say.  All the VAR ref can do is "suggest". With close calls, the Ref will not over rule himself or his assistants.



Such as the call with Kaka. He didn't see, wasn't ruling on it, the VAR official sees the hand to face and pulling ( even with jest) of the mouth, and the Ref gives Kaka a Red based on the "laws of the game" regardless if the aggrieved player said it was nothing, they're  mates.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #93 on: August 13, 2017, 05:17:29 pm »
In the first place, the VAR wouldn't have taken the Watford goal away.

Here's what people really don't understand. The VAR official has seconds to review an incident. He can't take 5 minutes , then call the play back.

Just like the Ref--who did not call interference on Mignolet and the Linesman-- who focused on the ball being played level into the box with Britos "level"...he would have given the goal as well.

Most commentators said he same..he's level it's a goal.

Only until someone REALLY reviews the incident, did the interference issue even get brought up. Not until after the match was over.

Further, Britos had goal scoring parts of his body in front to the cross. he should have been called off sides. Not until someone REALLY reviews the incident and looks with a critical eye can you spot that.

Again, the VAR will start with the premise that the call is correct. Only if he sees something missed that is blatant will he bring it to the attention of the Ref. Who still has final say.  All the VAR ref can do is "suggest". With close calls, the Ref will not over rule himself or his assistants.



Such as the call with Kaka. He didn't see, wasn't ruling on it, the VAR official sees the hand to face and pulling ( even with jest) of the mouth, and the Ref gives Kaka a Red based on the "laws of the game" regardless if the aggrieved player said it was nothing, they're  mates.

It's blatantly clear from 1 single replay that he is offside. I'm not sure what commentators you listened to, but all of the ones I heard said it was off, but excusing the incorrect decision because of how tight it was.
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Offline penga

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #94 on: August 13, 2017, 05:28:54 pm »
In the first place, the VAR wouldn't have taken the Watford goal away.

Here's what people really don't understand. The VAR official has seconds to review an incident. He can't take 5 minutes , then call the play back.

Just like the Ref--who did not call interference on Mignolet and the Linesman-- who focused on the ball being played level into the box with Britos "level"...he would have given the goal as well.

Most commentators said he same..he's level it's a goal.

Only until someone REALLY reviews the incident, did the interference issue even get brought up. Not until after the match was over.

Further, Britos had goal scoring parts of his body in front to the cross. he should have been called off sides. Not until someone REALLY reviews the incident and looks with a critical eye can you spot that.

Again, the VAR will start with the premise that the call is correct. Only if he sees something missed that is blatant will he bring it to the attention of the Ref. Who still has final say.  All the VAR ref can do is "suggest". With close calls, the Ref will not over rule himself or his assistants.



Such as the call with Kaka. He didn't see, wasn't ruling on it, the VAR official sees the hand to face and pulling ( even with jest) of the mouth, and the Ref gives Kaka a Red based on the "laws of the game" regardless if the aggrieved player said it was nothing, they're  mates.
Nope it would've been solved pretty quickly and VAR would've definitely taken the goal away. The VAR would've had access to still shots of when the ball was played in relation to where the goalscorer is standing which clearly showed he was offisde. Technology could place and imaginary (3D) line clearly showing the contrast more if it's tight. Don't base it on what the commentators say because they are not trained, but even they said it was offside during the replays that happened right after the goal was scored so don't even know what you are getting at.

Why would the VAR need to make the decision in seconds? Firstly there is celebration time and time taken to reset for kick-off giving them "non-delay time" then give them 30secs or 1 minute more if necessary to have more viewings to make the decision when needed. Better that than getting the wrong decision that cost us 2 points but of course you seem all to happy to accept it. What you are saying is completely illogical as only assumes the worst way in which it would be implemented and once again you only assume the VAR wouldn't spot he was in obstruction or offside (he was unequivocally both). Are you saying you couldn't determine yourself it was offside based on those few replays which happened immediately after the goal? Pretty sure Klopp and everyone else could.

As for Kaka situation, that is part of the learning process of implementing a new system and is not the final version of VAR being implemented - some short term pain for long term gain in increase of fairness which I already explained to you in previous posts but you obviously disagree so whatever. Also you'd hope we have better refs in Europe than in MLS...
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 05:35:02 pm by penga »

Online 4pool

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #95 on: August 13, 2017, 05:41:33 pm »
Nope it would've been solved pretty quickly and VAR would've definitely taken the goal away. The VAR would've had access to still shots of when the ball was played in relation to where the goalscorer is standing which clearly showed he was offisde. Technology could place and imaginary (3D) line clearly showing the contrast more if it's tight. Don't base it on what the commentators say because they are not trained, but even they said it was offside during the replays that happened right after the goal was scored so don't even know what you are getting at.

Why would the VAR need to make the decision in seconds? Firstly there is celebration time and time taken to reset for kick-off giving them "non-delay time" then give them 30secs or 1 minute more if necessary to have more viewings to make the decision when needed. Better that than getting the wrong decision that cost us 2 points but of course you seem all to happy to accept it. What you are saying is completely illogical as only assumes the worst way in which it would be implemented and once again you only assume the VAR wouldn't spot he was in obstruction or offside (he was unequivocally both). Are you saying you couldn't determine yourself it was offside based on those few replays which happened immediately after the goal? Pretty sure Klopp and everyone else could.

See. Anyone and everyone can have an opinion.

No matter how many examples of VAR not "working", people will defend it's use.

It failed in the ConFed Cup. There have been issues in other League where it is being trialed, like the MLS.

But still...the Watford goal would have been reversed for some. Imho,in your dreams.

The VAR official goes into reviewing the incident from the perspective, something has to be blatant. Not close. Not maybe. Not, well it might be.

VAR officials won't be "neutral". They are part of the team that works a match. Room with the other officials the night before a match. Go over things and players to watch in the upcoming match ( oh yes they do, ask a retired official). Are mates with them. Train with them. They will give every calls that is 60-40, not 50-50, to the team of officials on the pitch. It will have to be something they clearly see. Not something close .

I really don't see why people don't understand the mechanisms of how VAR is run. It's baffling. Turning a blind eye to it because they change a few calls, doesn't mean they will over turn the Watford goal because you have YOUR viewpoint on it.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #96 on: August 13, 2017, 05:44:55 pm »
See. Anyone and everyone can have an opinion.

No matter how many examples of VAR not "working", people will defend it's use.

It failed in the ConFed Cup. There have been issues in other League where it is being trialed, like the MLS.

But still...the Watford goal would have been reversed for some. Imho,in your dreams.

The VAR official goes into reviewing the incident from the perspective, something has to be blatant. Not close. Not maybe. Not, well it might be.

VAR officials won't be "neutral". They are part of the team that works a match. Room with the other officials the night before a match. Go over things and players to watch in the upcoming match ( oh yes they do, ask a retired official). Are mates with them. Train with them. They will give every calls that is 60-40, not 50-50, to the team of officials on the pitch. It will have to be something they clearly see. Not something close .

I really don't see why people don't understand the mechanisms of how VAR is run. It's baffling. Turning a blind eye to it because they change a few calls, doesn't mean they will over turn the Watford goal because you have YOUR viewpoint on it.

There is no
Quote
Not close. Not maybe. Not, well it might be.
It's an offside call. It either is or it isn't offside. In this case, it is offside. So what you are talking about here I really don't know. It is offside, and one single view of a replay confirms that. There is no doubt. And I'm not one that wants to see VAR brought in.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #97 on: August 13, 2017, 05:46:05 pm »
Get it sorted and implement it tomorrow

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #98 on: August 13, 2017, 05:57:21 pm »
There is no  It's an offside call. It either is or it isn't offside. In this case, it is offside. So what you are talking about here I really don't know. It is offside, and one single view of a replay confirms that. There is no doubt. And I'm not one that wants to see VAR brought in.
This. At the very least it is useful for offsides.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #99 on: August 13, 2017, 08:43:46 pm »
There is no  It's an offside call. It either is or it isn't offside. In this case, it is offside. So what you are talking about here I really don't know. It is offside, and one single view of a replay confirms that. There is no doubt. And I'm not one that wants to see VAR brought in.

An we've heard from the VAR ref, there was no off sides because the keeper touched the ball first. The keeper mishandled he ball, it fell to the attacker who scored. Goal stands.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #100 on: August 13, 2017, 09:11:07 pm »
An we've heard from the VAR ref, there was no off sides because the keeper touched the ball first. The keeper mishandled he ball, it fell to the attacker who scored. Goal stands.

What VAR ref said this?

The bolded point happens on a regular basis. A player in an offside position standing in an offside position puts in a rebound off the keeper or post, and it gets flagged 100% of the time (Unless it's a United player obviously  :P)
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #101 on: August 14, 2017, 02:14:04 am »
What VAR ref said this?

The bolded point happens on a regular basis. A player in an offside position standing in an offside position puts in a rebound off the keeper or post, and it gets flagged 100% of the time (Unless it's a United player obviously  :P)

The VAR ref that would find a reason to allow the goal. Silly..

Bretos is behind Mignolet. Not in front interfering with the keepers ability to stop the shot. Ming makes a hash of it. Off his arm which he raises to block the shot. It goes up under the bar and comes out.  Bretos heads in. Phase 2 of the play, he can't be offsides because Ming played the ball. That is how the VAR will justify it.

Others will point out that Bretos is off sides when the shot comes in. VAR ref will ignore those who do. The VAR will claim Bretos moved into the off sides position after the shot comes in, that he was level with the ball ( not the player who shot. As he stuck his leg out to shoot. The ball was by the goal line). That is what the assistant will claim he saw. The VAR Ref will back him up.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #102 on: August 14, 2017, 02:56:07 am »
Have a loo at the ludicrous Kaka sending off after VAR in MLS today, hilariously bad

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #103 on: August 14, 2017, 04:09:53 am »
What VAR ref said this?

The bolded point happens on a regular basis. A player in an offside position standing in an offside position puts in a rebound off the keeper or post, and it gets flagged 100% of the time (Unless it's a United player obviously  :P)
He is basically making things up now to suit his argument. There is no way VAR doesn't chalk off that goal...

The VAR ref that would find a reason to allow the goal. Silly..

Bretos is behind Mignolet. Not in front interfering with the keepers ability to stop the shot. Ming makes a hash of it. Off his arm which he raises to block the shot. It goes up under the bar and comes out.  Bretos heads in. Phase 2 of the play, he can't be offsides because Ming played the ball. That is how the VAR will justify it.

Others will point out that Bretos is off sides when the shot comes in. VAR ref will ignore those who do. The VAR will claim Bretos moved into the off sides position after the shot comes in, that he was level with the ball ( not the player who shot. As he stuck his leg out to shoot. The ball was by the goal line). That is what the assistant will claim he saw. The VAR Ref will back him up.
Britos was clearly interfering he was touching Mignolet and put off his save which is why it was poor. Mignolet puts his arm up and it hit Britos who was standing in an offside position - therefore it is a clear illegal obstruction. Even if the GK touches the ball first it is still a normal offside (without obstruction) which is why regular linesman always call offside (if they thought the player was indeed offside) if a keeper saves the ball and it rebounds to a player who taps it in but was offside at the time the shot was taken. Your understanding of offside and it's interpretation is very poor and you are trying to rationalise your viewpoint in a completely illogical way. You are also assuming the VAR will definitely get the decision wrong upon multiple viewings of the correct camera angles which is bizarre. You are just digging yourself into a hole here.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #104 on: August 14, 2017, 05:50:52 am »
I voted yes simply because I can't see how refereeing could possibly be any worse then it currently is.
If it's designed and used in an unobtrusive way, focused on helping referees and giving them confidence to make the calls - then it may be great.
But I hardly see it being useless or bad.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #105 on: August 14, 2017, 07:39:04 am »
The VAR ref that would find a reason to allow the goal. Silly..

Bretos is behind Mignolet. Not in front interfering with the keepers ability to stop the shot. Ming makes a hash of it. Off his arm which he raises to block the shot. It goes up under the bar and comes out.  Bretos heads in. Phase 2 of the play, he can't be offsides because Ming played the ball. That is how the VAR will justify it.

Others will point out that Bretos is off sides when the shot comes in. VAR ref will ignore those who do. The VAR will claim Bretos moved into the off sides position after the shot comes in, that he was level with the ball ( not the player who shot. As he stuck his leg out to shoot. The ball was by the goal line). That is what the assistant will claim he saw. The VAR Ref will back him up.


Do you have any real life basis for your opinion on what this imaginary VAR will do? Why would they "justify" it by saying Mignolet played the ball so he couldn't be offside, I'm fairly sure that is not how the rule works so why would they do that? The only reason would be if it was the rule, in which case his position wasn't illegal and the goal was fair. In neither of those scenarios has VAR failed.

You are acting like offside is a subjective thing. You are offside or you aren't, your body is ahead or it isn't, the only way you couldn't call that is if another player or players were completely blocking the view of the player who may be offside from any suitable camera angle, which is going to be pretty rare.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #106 on: August 14, 2017, 08:51:48 am »
Im still against VAR, it slows the game down too much, but watching the classico yesterday, the amount of cheating there made me rethink.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #107 on: August 14, 2017, 10:08:05 am »
Im still against VAR, it slows the game down too much, but watching the classico yesterday, the amount of cheating there made me rethink.

Doesn't have to slow the game down imo. Just needs to be used in very specific decisions where there is a doubt whether a potential penalty would be given or if a goal was scored with a suspicion of offside or perhaps a foul.

Both of those already cause significant stoppages, take the classico for example, as soon as Suarez goes down there is 6 Madrid players surrounding the ref and it takes over a minute for him to even give the card let alone the penalty be taken. Could have easily been reviewed to see he dived in that time, whether you would want to use it for dives is another matter as sometimes is hard to tell how much contact there really is.

For offsides it is often the same, the team scored against will start complaining while the scorers run off and celebrate for 1-2 minutes. Absolutely no reason it couldn't be reviewed in that time as the game is stopped regardless.

Maybe I'm missing something but I can't see how using it in these situations would slow the game down at all.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #108 on: August 14, 2017, 03:05:45 pm »
He is basically making things up now to suit his argument. There is no way VAR doesn't chalk off that goal...
Britos was clearly interfering he was touching Mignolet and put off his save which is why it was poor. Mignolet puts his arm up and it hit Britos who was standing in an offside position - therefore it is a clear illegal obstruction. Even if the GK touches the ball first it is still a normal offside (without obstruction) which is why regular linesman always call offside (if they thought the player was indeed offside) if a keeper saves the ball and it rebounds to a player who taps it in but was offside at the time the shot was taken. Your understanding of offside and it's interpretation is very poor and you are trying to rationalise your viewpoint in a completely illogical way. You are also assuming the VAR will definitely get the decision wrong upon multiple viewings of the correct camera angles which is bizarre. You are just digging yourself into a hole here.

Apply for the job of VAR.

You've been a Ref haven't you?

You know the Laws of the game?

It's just like all the pundits on TV, all the ex-players, they think they know the rules. They think this is how things should be. And are surprised to find out the Ref, Assistants, 4th official, and soon to be VAR don't agree with them.

What's clear as day to them, doesn't get ruled their way, and they throw a strop. They bang on about this is what should have been called. This is what should have been ruled. And provide their explanation to prove their point.

Same with some posters in here.

Still doesn't mean  any official on the field or the soon to be VAR will give 2p's worth what anyone else thinks.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #109 on: August 14, 2017, 05:19:18 pm »
Apply for the job of VAR.

You've been a Ref haven't you?

You know the Laws of the game?

It's just like all the pundits on TV, all the ex-players, they think they know the rules. They think this is how things should be. And are surprised to find out the Ref, Assistants, 4th official, and soon to be VAR don't agree with them.

What's clear as day to them, doesn't get ruled their way, and they throw a strop. They bang on about this is what should have been called. This is what should have been ruled. And provide their explanation to prove their point.

Same with some posters in here.

Still doesn't mean  any official on the field or the soon to be VAR will give 2p's worth what anyone else thinks.
Ok people may agree with you VAR shouldn't be brought in but no one here agrees with you on this example because they applied common sense but keep going...

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #110 on: August 14, 2017, 05:55:21 pm »
Maybe you should google the official FIFA document on offsides and educate yourself on the rules. Come back to me when you find the example where the situation of the Britos goal is not offside. I will spell it out for you here even.

Read page 1 (general rule): There is only no offside if
- in his own half of the field of play
- level with the 2nd last opponent
- level with the last 2 opponents
- from a goal kick, throw-in or corner
None of these situations applies to the Britos goal.

Page 5: Offside is called when the head, body, or feet are nearer to his opponent's goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent, arms are not considered. In the replays it clearly shows his feet are ahead of the last defender and the ball player but you will probably dispute this as your vision is probably blurred  :D so it will be "borderline" and the VAR will see it exactly like you.

Then read page 10 - While in an offside position there are 3 things a player cannot do:
-interfere with play
-interfere with an opponent: if you need further explanation because you probably do: it means for example "clearly obstructing the GK's line of vision or movement" from page 17, bolded part relates to Britos standing right behind Mignolet and impeding his movement of making the save as the replay shows he is being touched and that effects the movement of Mig's arm.
-gain an advantage by being in the offside position: playing a ball that rebounds to him off the crossbar, post or opponent having previously been in an offside position from page 22, bolded part relates exactly do how the ball rebounded off Mig's hand from a save. But no you somehow will construe that Migs "played the ball" as if it were a pass or something LOL. 

The Britos goal situation ticks those boxes quite clearly. I don't see how you can argue against it. So what you have been banging on about is the VAR would've definitely not ruled out Watford's goal which flies against every single black and white rule about offside. Ok...sounds legit.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #111 on: August 14, 2017, 07:34:38 pm »
Penga...

I don't need to google anything.

I've refereed games before. Not recently mind. But it would be no problem to sit my lazy arse in a booth and be a VAR.

Plus different Associations will have their own "rules". Remember when the FA said no surrounding the Ref and no back talk to the Ref? The only one punished was Mascherano.

Again, ignore what I am telling you. The VAR ref will be part of a team. Will work with the 19 approved Ref's for the Premier League this season and the approved assistants. They train together, review situations together, etc. They are sent reviews of their calls. But at the end of the day, the ref and assistants are making split second decisions. The VAR ref will do the same. ONLY when the VAR is sure there's been a blatant call missed will he bring it to the attention of the Ref.

Depending on the structure of VAR reviews, the Ref will have final say. He will want to go have a look himself. How much time between the VAR suggesting he look at it until he walks over has a look and decides his original call stands?  This business of it won't delay the match is poppycock.
Well the goal is scored, there's time between the celebration, etc. Not until the Ref gets the players back in position for a restart will he take time to go look if he so desires.

I'm telling you here and now, the VAR may suggest something and the Ref or assistant will tell him, no I had a clear view of it. That will be the end of it. Except on tv and the internet which will wonder why it wasn't reviewed. The match officials, VAR included, don't have to explain anything post match.

The Ronaldo incident. He thought he should have had a penalty. He might be right. The VAR might suggest to the Ref, have a look. The Ref will say, don't need to I saw it clearly there wasn't enough contact. End of review. The Ref will have in his mind the number of times Ronaldo tried to con them. The Ref will know Ronaldos habits. He will know when there is sufficient contact, in his mind, to award a pen. He didn't. Ronaldo is upset like the 100's of times he been upset when the call didn't go his way. The Ref won't want to be made a fool of by a player on the pitch. Call stands. Oh, you pushed me, off you go...

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #112 on: August 15, 2017, 12:31:06 am »
The Bundesliga is implementing VAR beginning this season.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #113 on: August 15, 2017, 02:20:38 am »
It was a nice idea, until I saw players making the tv screen sign at every corner, foul, offside, tackle. Not for me.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #114 on: August 15, 2017, 02:52:18 am »
Penga...

I don't need to google anything.

I've refereed games before. Not recently mind. But it would be no problem to sit my lazy arse in a booth and be a VAR.

Plus different Associations will have their own "rules". Remember when the FA said no surrounding the Ref and no back talk to the Ref? The only one punished was Mascherano.

Again, ignore what I am telling you. The VAR ref will be part of a team. Will work with the 19 approved Ref's for the Premier League this season and the approved assistants. They train together, review situations together, etc. They are sent reviews of their calls. But at the end of the day, the ref and assistants are making split second decisions. The VAR ref will do the same. ONLY when the VAR is sure there's been a blatant call missed will he bring it to the attention of the Ref.

Depending on the structure of VAR reviews, the Ref will have final say. He will want to go have a look himself. How much time between the VAR suggesting he look at it until he walks over has a look and decides his original call stands?  This business of it won't delay the match is poppycock.
Well the goal is scored, there's time between the celebration, etc. Not until the Ref gets the players back in position for a restart will he take time to go look if he so desires.

I'm telling you here and now, the VAR may suggest something and the Ref or assistant will tell him, no I had a clear view of it. That will be the end of it. Except on tv and the internet which will wonder why it wasn't reviewed. The match officials, VAR included, don't have to explain anything post match.

The Ronaldo incident. He thought he should have had a penalty. He might be right. The VAR might suggest to the Ref, have a look. The Ref will say, don't need to I saw it clearly there wasn't enough contact. End of review. The Ref will have in his mind the number of times Ronaldo tried to con them. The Ref will know Ronaldos habits. He will know when there is sufficient contact, in his mind, to award a pen. He didn't. Ronaldo is upset like the 100's of times he been upset when the call didn't go his way. The Ref won't want to be made a fool of by a player on the pitch. Call stands. Oh, you pushed me, off you go...
None of this relates to the Watford offside goal, penalties/fouls are another discussion. The offside was blatant but apparently you have trouble seeing that when no one else does. The offside rule is the same anywhere and especially in this specific case between the FA and FIFA, so again irrelevant. The onfield referees have 1 viewing from 1 angle, the VAR has multiple viewings from multiple angles, including slow motion and freeze frame shots from which they could tell the above situation CLEARLY constituted an offside no matter how you try to twist it. Your explanation of how a referee with that evidence will still call no offside blatantly against the laws of the game is like saying the ref will call a throw for a player's team even though the ref saw the ball went out off him. Makes no sense at all.

Is it not a better outcome the VAR corrects the decision? Apparently not, you would rather see Liverpool rorted yet again unfairly due to your bizarre assumption they would not correct the call anyway somehow...the whole purpose of VAR is to correct blatant calls not back up your mates' decision on the field everytime or be overulled everytime by the onfield refs.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #115 on: August 15, 2017, 03:48:19 am »
None of this relates to the Watford offside goal, penalties/fouls are another discussion. The offside was blatant but apparently you have trouble seeing that when no one else does. The offside rule is the same anywhere and especially in this specific case between the FA and FIFA, so again irrelevant. The onfield referees have 1 viewing from 1 angle, the VAR has multiple viewings from multiple angles, including slow motion and freeze frame shots from which they could tell the above situation CLEARLY constituted an offside no matter how you try to twist it. Your explanation of how a referee with that evidence will still call no offside blatantly against the laws of the game is like saying the ref will call a throw for a player's team even though the ref saw the ball went out off him. Makes no sense at all.

Is it not a better outcome the VAR corrects the decision? Apparently not, you would rather see Liverpool rorted yet again unfairly due to your bizarre assumption they would not correct the call anyway somehow...the whole purpose of VAR is to correct blatant calls not back up your mates' decision on the field everytime or be overulled everytime by the onfield refs.

I'm tired of arguing with someone who knows that the Watford call was offsides and that the VAR would surely over turn it.

Good fcuking luck with that.

In the mean time you find Peter Kirkup or Gary Bestwick and ask them why they got the Watford off sides call wrong. Two senior assistants who have been in the game a long time. Ask them how their post match review went..

There is a robust system for measuring Select Group performance over the season. Each Premier League match is evaluated by a former senior referee who scrutinises every decision using the match footage and ProZone to measure the officials’ technical performance. Former players and managers (Match Delegates) assess the accuracy and consistency of decision making and their management of the match.

You can catch Peter at the Burnley v West Brom match, or Gary at the Spurs v Chelsea match this weekend. Obviously they made such an egregious error  at the Watford match missing the off sides at the end of the match that led to a tying goal that they've been pulled from duty.

I'm sure they will explain it to you. Laws of the Game and all. :wave
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #116 on: August 15, 2017, 10:56:18 am »
I say no. It would severely affect our chances of silverware.
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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #117 on: August 15, 2017, 11:28:17 am »
I say no. It would severely affect our chances of silverware.

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #118 on: August 15, 2017, 02:22:30 pm »
Having voted no, I'm genuinely in fully favour after the first game

It wasn't even a bad one but man it made me so mad

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Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #119 on: August 15, 2017, 04:22:54 pm »
I'm tired of arguing with someone who knows that the Watford call was offsides and that the VAR would surely over turn it.

Good fcuking luck with that.

In the mean time you find Peter Kirkup or Gary Bestwick and ask them why they got the Watford off sides call wrong. Two senior assistants who have been in the game a long time. Ask them how their post match review went..

There is a robust system for measuring Select Group performance over the season. Each Premier League match is evaluated by a former senior referee who scrutinises every decision using the match footage and ProZone to measure the officials’ technical performance. Former players and managers (Match Delegates) assess the accuracy and consistency of decision making and their management of the match.

You can catch Peter at the Burnley v West Brom match, or Gary at the Spurs v Chelsea match this weekend. Obviously they made such an egregious error  at the Watford match missing the off sides at the end of the match that led to a tying goal that they've been pulled from duty.

I'm sure they will explain it to you. Laws of the Game and all. :wave
I'm tired of arguing with someone who knows that the Watford call wasn't offside flying against the actual written laws of the game and someone who does not apply common sense, trying to twist things completely out of proportion to suit his own argument. You still haven't explained why it wasn't offside and how it is justifiable in any way aside from calling the situation completely the opposite of what happened e.g. Mignolet "played" the ball, which still doesn't negate the fact Britos was impeding him from an offside position.

Just because an official gets a decision wrong doesn't necessarily mean they get dropped, nor does that decision necessarily constitute a "huge" mistake in the context of human error as it was a "tight call" in a chaotic situation with the ball and pin-balling all over the place but it was a huge mistake in the context of the game though. And on the replays it was clear to see for everyone, the pictures are there. The fact that you keep bringing why they wouldn't have reversed it based on your ridiculous assumption doesn't mean shit. No one here agrees with you bad luck  :wave