Topic: Today's shooting - The Sandy Hook Memorial Thread - Thoughts and Prayers

[Ghost Town]

How anyone, in any position of power or role in the public spotlight, can speak like that in the 21st century can speak like that and not be laughed out of the building is insane. In a fully developed 'Western Democracy' as well.

I've no idea who the woman is or what she really believes but I imagine her publically saying such a thing is mostly about deflection; get people fulminating about crazy religious ghoulishness rather than gun control. Anything but gun control.

Despite the feeling from those of us looking in that gun control seems impossible there, the pro-gun nutters must be panicking after each incident, terrified that the sudden turning point could come at any time. These kind of mass direction changes often happen suddenly when a tipping point is reached.

[Chakan]

I've no idea who the woman is or what she really believes but I imagine her publically saying such a thing is mostly about deflection; get people fulminating about crazy religious ghoulishness rather than gun control. Anything but gun control.

Despite the feeling from those of us looking in that gun control seems impossible there, the pro-gun nutters must be panicking after each incident, terrified that the sudden turning point could come at any time. These kind of mass direction changes often happen suddenly when a tipping point is reached.

I really don't think there is a turning point. I mean obviously some day in the far far faaaaar future it'll turn, but that will be generations down the line.

Everything that should have changed it has already happened.

[Ghost Town]

I really don't think there is a turning point. I mean obviously some day in the far far faaaaar future it'll turn, but that will be generations down the line.

Everything that should have changed it has already happened.

Like I said, when turning points happen, they are often relatively sudden, and usually not predicted in the run up. No guarantees of course.

In any case the point was that as most pro-gun types are seethingly paranoid anyway, they are probably convinced it's going to happen tomorrow even as they trot out their 'cold dead hands' bluster and grandiose rhetoric

[WhereAngelsPlay]

The slaughter of primary school children wasn't enough,so I doubt there's anything that would tip the needle other than Trump getting hit with a pellet or pea shooter.

I've seen rabid dogs who were more pro life than the c*nts.

[FlashGordon]

I've no idea who the woman is or what she really believes but I imagine her publically saying such a thing is mostly about deflection; get people fulminating about crazy religious ghoulishness rather than gun control. Anything but gun control.

Despite the feeling from those of us looking in that gun control seems impossible there, the pro-gun nutters must be panicking after each incident, terrified that the sudden turning point could come at any time. These kind of mass direction changes often happen suddenly when a tipping point is reached.

There's always a chance that's the case, but I'm more inclined to think she actually believes that shit. It's scary.

[BarryCrocker]

I so enjoy it when "Christians" say the quiet part out loud.

Quote
Jenna Ellis, one of the right-wing lawyers who represented former President Donald Trump in his failed attempts to overturn the 2020 election, proclaimed on Wednesday's edition of The Jenna Ellis Show that the five victims who were murdered in the massacre at Club Q in Colorado Springs, Colorado early Sunday morning are burning in Hell.

"The five people who were killed in the nightclub that night, there is no evidence at all that they were Christians. So assuming that they were not, that they had not accepted the truth of the gospel of Christ and affirmed Jesus Christ as the lord of their life, they are now reaping the consequences of having eternal damnation," Ellis said. "And that is far, far greater – we should be having that conversation. Instead of just the tragedy of what happened to the body, we need to be talking about what happened to the soul and the fact that they are now in eternal separation from our lord and savior Jesus Christ."


Fucking ghoul.

She's going to be pretty fucking disappointed when she eventually dies. Others naturally won't be.

[ScottScott]

It can't be done - they don't have the manpower, the time, the logisgtical ability or the will to do it.

Would you surrender your guns while millions are still being held illegally and while mass shootings (4 or more people shot) will still happen on a daily basis and cities like Chicago and Baltimore continue to lose at least one person per day to a shooting?

This is serious question for you and anybody else who is either supportive of the gun laws in the US or just doesn't think anything can be done. What would you having a gun do in those situations? Take the one in Walmart the other night or the gay nightclub the night before, what would owning a gun at home have done to prevent that? Hell, how many of the 600 (or 6000, I can't remember) mass shootings have been prevented by the fabled 'good guy with a gun'?

[Corkboy]

This is serious question for you and anybody else who is either supportive of the gun laws in the US or just doesn't think anything can be done. What would you having a gun do in those situations? Take the one in Walmart the other night or the gay nightclub the night before, what would owning a gun at home have done to prevent that? Hell, how many of the 600 (or 6000, I can't remember) mass shootings have been prevented by the fabled 'good guy with a gun'?

My current understanding is that if you are in a mass shooting situation, you would hope to be surrounded by brave people like drag queens, rather than pants shitting cowards like Uvalde cops.

[PhilV]

The number of households with guns do, especially if you compare to Australia.  So does the difference in state laws and such especially with this Supreme Court.

It isn't easy, even if it's the right thing to do (I'm not arguing against that).

It would be hard but this is one of those that would need a law passed to make it happen, federal level.

I cannot fathom how people can keep defending guns everywhere, it is a mental country and not that Americans will care but it puts me off America a lot.

[BarryCrocker]

It would be hard but this is one of those that would need a law passed to make it happen, federal level.

I cannot fathom how people can keep defending guns everywhere, it is a mental country and not that Americans will care but it puts me off America a lot.

Surely a federal law banning the manufacture and import on weapons/bullets (Chris Rock Theory) would put a cap on what's in the economy.

Technically, you're not banning weapons just their manufacture.

[Dench57]

The slaughter of primary school children wasn't enough,so I doubt there's anything that would tip the needle

Yup. If Sandy Hook wasn't enough, nothing will be.

[stewil007]

Yup. If Sandy Hook wasn't enough, nothing will be.

Taking down the multiple members of the house of representatives might get the conversation going.

They will only do something when they are severely directly impacted

[liverbloke]

thinking outside the box here...

how's about they keep all the guns - own as many as you want

the right to bear arms still stands...

just ban lethal ammunition - so you can still fire rubber bullets (or whatever is similar as i don't know) and save yourself from the oncoming (delete as applicable to you) zombie apocalypse/new world order/jews/black uprising/white supremacists/aliens/the police/vampires/republicans/democrats/qanon/apes/seinfeld apocalypse - you get the picture

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I so enjoy it when "Christians" say the quiet part out loud.




Fucking ghoul.

That's crackers that.

American Christians are a world away from those outside America.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

It seems like a lot of the shootings that aren't gang related happen because someone just flips out. Take the gun away from that person and they probably go home, have a wank and get over it. They aren't murderers that would have access to an illegal firearm, and they aren't murderers that would find another way to kill. The same could probably be said for a lot of the suicide victims too.

We've probably all been in a situation where we've lost our heads, punched someone or shouted in a fit of rage or something. I know I have. I'd like to think I would never shoot someone, but if I had a gun on me at those times, who knows. And that right there is enough for me to support a ban - sure it wouldn't stop a lot of killings, at least not right away, but for every gun off the streets you're potentially saving a life, if not dozens of them.

[PaulF]

This is serious question for you and anybody else who is either supportive of the gun laws in the US or just doesn't think anything can be done. What would you having a gun do in those situations? Take the one in Walmart the other night or the gay nightclub the night before, what would owning a gun at home have done to prevent that? Hell, how many of the 600 (or 6000, I can't remember) mass shootings have been prevented by the fabled 'good guy with a gun'?

I am in no way supportive, but is it possible, that most people think the guns are a deterrent. ie if the good guys have guns, then the bad ones are less likely to go round shooting people? Clearly the evidence from other countries is overwhelming.

I so enjoy it when "Christians" say the quiet part out loud.

I really don't know what you mean by the quiet part, and out loud.  I guess it's phrasing, but I can't process. Would you mind elaborating specifically what you mean? Mainly to appease my anal hating of not understanding things.

[Chakan]

I really don't know what you mean by the quiet part, and out loud.  I guess it's phrasing, but I can't process. Would you mind elaborating specifically what you mean? Mainly to appease my anal hating of not understanding things.

Usually after mass shooting Christians/Republicans just say “terrible, horrible, thoughts and prayers” see Lauren Boeberts comments, all the whole thinking “happy gay/trans people died”

This one decided to say the “happy gay/trans people died” out loud.

[Alan_X]

I've no idea who the woman is or what she really believes but I imagine her publically saying such a thing is mostly about deflection; get people fulminating about crazy religious ghoulishness rather than gun control. Anything but gun control.

Despite the feeling from those of us looking in that gun control seems impossible there, the pro-gun nutters must be panicking after each incident, terrified that the sudden turning point could come at any time. These kind of mass direction changes often happen suddenly when a tipping point is reached.

I think you underestimate the power of Evangelical Christianity in the US. She's not deflecting - that's her sincere belief. There's another video doing the rounds of a preacher saying he's not upset about the shooting - he sais he's glad they were killed because they won't be attacking children...

[Corkboy]

I think you underestimate the power of Evangelical Christianity in the US. She's not deflecting - that's her sincere belief. There's another video doing the rounds of a preacher saying he's not upset about the shooting - he sais he's glad they were killed because they won't be attacking children...

She also hated Trump before she loved him. I don't think any of the prominent right wing folks have sincere beliefs. It's all just a racket, a grift for them. They say whatever keeps them relevant in the conservative ecosystem so they can keep getting booked on Fox.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Taking down the multiple members of the house of representatives might get the conversation going.

They will only do something when they are severely directly impacted

Exactly.  If you've lost a loved one to these shootings and are suicidal etc, don't throw your life away pointlessly. Get something useful in return.  Find a  solution,  you can't get that through changing the law... then band together with those in a similar place,  make a list of the republicans in the house and Senate most vocal on this to benefit their own agenda,  kill them off methodically.  At this point,  for me,  we know enough of the grifters and cowards on the opposite side of the issue to assess this move will work spectacularly well in enacting that change,  well before you need to go too far down that list.

[Yorkykopite]

Fucker Carlson's feelings about the whole thing.

You might have to take that extract away. The reek is sickening. It's making everyone feel very ill.

[PaulF]

Usually after mass shooting Christians/Republicans just say “terrible, horrible, thoughts and prayers” see Lauren Boeberts comments, all the whole thinking “happy gay/trans people died”

This one decided to say the “happy gay/trans people died” out loud.

Ah, thank you.  I understand what was meant now.

[Yorkykopite]

That's crackers that.

American Christians are a world away from those outside America.

The ones in Rwanda didn't exactly excel themselves.

[Corkboy]

The ones in Rwanda didn't exactly excel themselves.

Pretty sure all that clerical child sex abuse wasn't confined to American shores, either.

[rob1966]

Just to be clear, are you saying that in the decades since Dunblane, had guns continued to proliferate society, we wouldn't have seen mass shootings in the UK as we see in the US? The few we have had surely contradict this nonsense. You don't think angry teens and psychopaths getting hold of a gun when they are readily available in your local supermarket wouldn't lead to immeasurably greater acts of mass slaughter?

If so, I'm bewildered as to how you can argue that. The biggest issue in the US is semi automatics, military grade weapons being used. Not a shotgun. Had we continued to allow handguns these types of weapons would obviously also be available here. And obviously people who wish to enact harm would be far more likely to be able to get hold of said weapons of war than they can today.

You obviously have absolutely no idea how the gun laws worked in the UK, so I'll leave it at that

[Boston always unofficial]

I think you underestimate the power of Evangelical Christianity in the US. She's not deflecting - that's her sincere belief. There's another video doing the rounds of a preacher saying he's not upset about the shooting - he sais he's glad they were killed because they won't be attacking children...

The video interview with the Colorado shooters dad is also disturbing as fuck.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I really don't know what you mean by the quiet part, and out loud.  I guess it's phrasing, but I can't process. Would you mind elaborating specifically what you mean? Mainly to appease my anal hating of not understanding things.

She went off script because of the victims,it's usually thoughts and prayers but she couldn't bring herself to saying that due to their pronouns.

[GreatEx]

This is serious question for you and anybody else who is either supportive of the gun laws in the US or just doesn't think anything can be done. What would you having a gun do in those situations? Take the one in Walmart the other night or the gay nightclub the night before, what would owning a gun at home have done to prevent that? Hell, how many of the 600 (or 6000, I can't remember) mass shootings have been prevented by the fabled 'good guy with a gun'?

I remember there was one potential mass shooting in a shopping mall that was foiled by a GGWAG earlier this year. Thanks to him, only 3 people were murdered, so that was a huge win for 2A and freedom lovers everywhere (because you need 4 kills to make it a mass shooting). I remember reading in the article that the GGWAG fired something like a dozen rounds from a distance of some 30-50 metres, which naturally made me wonder how good his accuracy was and whether the 3 deaths were all attributable to the same shooter, but it would be uncouth to ask such questions.

[PaulF]

I guess we don't get to hear of when ggwag prevents a mass shooting, even if it's fairly common. Though it'd imagine it's tough to get to even three killings without a gun.

[RJH]

I remember there was one potential mass shooting in a shopping mall that was foiled by a GGWAG earlier this year. Thanks to him, only 3 people were murdered, so that was a huge win for 2A and freedom lovers everywhere (because you need 4 kills to make it a mass shooting). I remember reading in the article that the GGWAG fired something like a dozen rounds from a distance of some 30-50 metres, which naturally made me wonder how good his accuracy was and whether the 3 deaths were all attributable to the same shooter, but it would be uncouth to ask such questions.

The thing is, even if the "GGWAG" fired the shots that killed some of those people, it might still be the people he was shooting at who get charged with their murders.

It's due to the concept of Felony-Murders, which mean if someone dies while you are committing a crime, you can be charged with their murder, even if you were not directly responsible for their death.

E.g. In the below story, two men broke into a house. Homeowne shot and killed one of them, and the other burglar is charged with murder:
https://www.newson6.com/story/5e35ee472f69d76f62025737/sand-springs-man-charged-with-murder-burglary

Longer article about a different case (and the general concept) here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43673331

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I guess we don't get to hear of when ggwag prevents a mass shooting, even if it's fairly common. Though it'd imagine it's tough to get to even three killings without a gun.

It's not fairly common though.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Taking down the multiple members of the house of representatives might get the conversation going.

They will only do something when they are severely directly impacted

You think so?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_baseball_shooting

[Ghost Town]

The whole Good Guy With A Gun thing is a red herring. You wouldn't need a GGWAG if there wasn't a BFMWAG running around, and you would be far, far less likley to have a BMFWAG running around if guns weren't available in Walmart.

[Ghost Town]

I think you underestimate the power of Evangelical Christianity in the US. She's not deflecting - that's her sincere belief. There's another video doing the rounds of a preacher saying he's not upset about the shooting - he sais he's glad they were killed because they won't be attacking children...

As I said I don't know who the woman is so I don't know her beliefs (and as corkboy says, I have doubts about the sincerity of a lot of the right wing personalities). But that's not really my point. I was suggesting that the reason why this person (regardless of beliefs) was saying those things, out loud, right now, in a way that makes her seem like a heartless ghoul, might (at least partly) be to create a talking point that distracts people from the real issue: gun control.

And the reason for that, IMO, is that for all their bluster I think the gun lobby are getting more and more panicky that things could start to sour on them, and change quickly. This is all part of the tipping point idea; that something that looks totally impossible today could very quickly become possible a short time later if a tipping point is reached. And in that there is some hope in what seem like hopeless times.

[PaulF]

BBC News - Club Q Colorado shooting: Attack was ended by dad and show performer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63698165

GG without a gun.
Though ex military. 

[GreatEx]

I guess we don't get to hear of when ggwag prevents a mass shooting, even if it's fairly common. Though it'd imagine it's tough to get to even three killings without a gun.

You don't reckon there's powerful vested interests in amplifying such stories? I've read a couple, no reason to believe they got big exposure while others were ignored.

[Red Beret]

BBC News - Club Q Colorado shooting: Attack was ended by dad and show performer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63698165

GG without a gun.
Though ex military.

And a transgender with a hell of a heel as I heard.

[PaulF]

You don't reckon there's powerful vested interests in amplifying such stories? I've read a couple, no reason to believe they got big exposure while others were ignored.

Id not considered that. Good point.

[PaulF]

And a transgender with a hell of a heel as I heard.

Hopefully she had anger issues.
Sorry not sure if that's the right pronoun.

[12C]

https://t.co/GCPwxb2gz1
Not a mass shooting, but a 10 yr old shoots his mam because she wouldn’t order him a VR headset. Kills her and then logs on and orders one from Amazon.
Seems like the kid has had mental health issues since he was very young. They are trying him as an adult