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Injury (and absence) related chat (so the news is kept in the other thread)

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zero zero:

--- Quote from: Knight on March  2, 2024, 07:44:51 am ---So given that, itís not some sort of outrageous question to ask why our injury outcomes have been pretty bad compared to other PL clubs over 3 of the past 4 seasons.

--- End quote ---
Asking is fine. It's when some supporters start demanding our physios need replacing with no knowledge at the various factors at hand that gets my back up.

Two of our players were stretchered off the pitch (usually a once in a season occurrence, if that) with not even a foul given for the initial challenge. How we've been refereed is a factor in our injury list and nothing to do with our physios.

Knight:

--- Quote from: zero zero on March  2, 2024, 07:53:33 am ---Asking is fine. It's when some supporters start demanding our physios need replacing with no knowledge at the various factors at hand that gets my back up.

Two of our players were stretchered off the pitch (usually a once in a season occurrence, if that) with not even a foul given for the initial challenge. How we've been refereed is a factor in our injury list and nothing to do with our physios.

--- End quote ---

This is true and a good rebuke to me personally because in frustration at hearing Dom and Salah were out  of the league cup final I made a flippant comment like this.

Re the refeeering, Iím sure thereís something to this, Caicedoís foul was an Ďorangeí card at least for me in that theyíre sometimes given as yellows and sometimes as reds and the ref gave neither. That said I still canít decide if the Jones one was a foul and the ref played advantage on the Grav one. A bad advantage yes given we immediately lost the ball.

Knight:
Oh and by the way, as someone with decent experience of lifting heavy weights, Iím not convinced at all that S&C people actually know what theyíre doing when it comes to strengthening various parts of the body. Certainly in the NFL you see them doing some bizarre stuff. The establishment position (as we well know as Liverpool fans) isnít always the most competent and sometimes there are significant push/ pull factors towards worse ways of doing things.

jillcwhomever:

--- Quote from: Uhoh AureliOs on March  2, 2024, 07:06:46 am ---Yo. Let's dispell some myths.

Myth 1. Players are robots. Return to play estimates are estimates. We're just sacks of meat and sometimes things go unexpectedly. There are no hard boundaries in the body. You can't point at a muscle tear and go yep thats a grade X, it's a diagnosis made from a combination of subjective and objective measures. Sometimes these are wrong but it's no ones fault. Sometimes the manager and coaches don't understand the subtle detail of a condition so use language that we shouldnt take as verbatim

Myth 2. Players are returning too soon. See point 1. You could sit them out for extra time to be extra sure but there's a balance between that and them missing even more games. Also the longer you are out the more you lose that top end "match" fitness. People blame the physios for some reason, when the physiotherapists are not mind readers. Players want to play. Players lie about how they feel. Players and physios are human and the best ones work together with trust. The physios want the team to win too. The greatest risk factor of injury is previous injury. We can't turn back the clock. They are now less robust statistically even if theyre healed. The players have to hit certain milestones to be allowed to return in a phased way. If they hit the milestone they progress and see how their body reacts.

Myth 3. Injury prevention is a thing. Nope. This is the biggest misnomer in sports medicine. It should be injury risk reduction. That's what the strength and conditioning department/sports science department does. That dept. will work with the physios to help reduce the risk of injury by, for example, doing some specific types of exercise to strengthen around the knee to reduce ACL injuries, or reduce risk of hamstring tears by doing nordic hamstring curls. We can minimise the risk but not prevent injuries happening.

Myth 4. The Physios don't know what they're doing and somehow are allowed free reign over when players return and are doing whatever the fuck they want without any accountability or reflection on their own performance and should be sacked/replaced with some magic new physios who are going to do all the things the previous ones were doing but somehow do it differently cos I think so little of physiotherapy as a profession that I dont realise that all the treatments they do are monitored by protocols with scientific outcome measures and informed by best evidence available so theyre not just fumbling in the dark but using a mix of both qualitative and quantitative data gathered over decades of scientific studies to inform their practice and even then theyre working on these biological beings who are all unique genetically and physically, as in shape and size - biomechanically, and so correspondingly need unique and individualised care, and also probably dont understand that if they were to have any respiratory caridac or neurological problems, or get old and have balance and falls problems, that I'd need to be looked after by one of these physiotherapists and maybe should trust they know the fuck what they are doing.

--- End quote ---

Good post.

jepovic:

--- Quote from: Knight on March  2, 2024, 08:20:47 am ---Oh and by the way, as someone with decent experience of lifting heavy weights, Iím not convinced at all that S&C people actually know what theyíre doing when it comes to strengthening various parts of the body. Certainly in the NFL you see them doing some bizarre stuff. The establishment position (as we well know as Liverpool fans) isnít always the most competent and sometimes there are significant push/ pull factors towards worse ways of doing things.

--- End quote ---
A recent example is that only a few years ago players were using compression socks,.and now they are cutting their socks apart. These are elite athletes, not some moron on FB, but they are still susceptible to trends

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