Author Topic: Jürgen Klopp  (Read 972260 times)

Offline bornandbRED

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #240 on: October 13, 2019, 03:24:23 pm »
The main reason for our success for me is not FSG but Klopp. We have for me one of the best managers ever to grace the game and we should enjoy it whilst we can. What we shouldn't do is assume that will continue when Klopp leaves. If you want a comparison look at United.

As for mediocrity I suggest you take a look at how we were performing before Klopp's arrival. We were tenth in the League having finished 6th the season before on 62 points.

Who hired Klopp? As the man himself has stated, he was looking for a specific environment - one which was offered by FSG & not by clubs like Utd, whose approach he rejected due to the way they marketed themselves.

On field success is always going to be primarily attributable to the manager. That’s why he’s hired in that role - as an expert to direct footballing matters. Beyond that, there’s no doubt we have a world class operation in play. The ongoing Anfield expansion, record breaking kit deals, new training ground & pioneering scouting & sports science methodologies. We’re a well ran football club right and it’s night and day with where we were under previous owners. FSG deserve plenty of credit.

Offline phil236849

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #241 on: October 13, 2019, 03:59:38 pm »
Or to put it another way, as wonderful as we all agree Klopp is, it is absolutely absurd to give no credit or trust to the owners.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #242 on: October 13, 2019, 04:14:46 pm »
Or to put it another way, as wonderful as we all agree Klopp is, it is absolutely absurd to give no credit or trust to the owners.

Absolutely Alsurd?
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #243 on: October 13, 2019, 04:30:02 pm »
Who hired Klopp? As the man himself has stated, he was looking for a specific environment - one which was offered by FSG & not by clubs like Utd, whose approach he rejected due to the way they marketed themselves.

Probably the most marketed sports team in the World is the Red Sox though. Look at the whole Red Sox nation thing. For me the specific environment here is created by the fanbase. We simply don't accept show ponies like Pogba here. We pushed back when they tried to raise ticket prices, we pushed back when they wanted the 39th game in the States, we pushed backed when they wanted to trademark the name of our City. The fanbase has campaigned for lower ticket prices for local kids, for a limit on prices for away fans and protested about the sponsorship deal with Tibet water resources.

Most of all though the reason there is a specific environment at LFC is the way the fanbase got rid of Hicks and Gillet.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #244 on: October 13, 2019, 04:39:15 pm »
Or to put it another way, as wonderful as we all agree Klopp is, it is absolutely absurd to give no credit or trust to the owners.

In the Glazers first 8 years as owners of United the Club won 5 League titles, 3 League cups, an Fa Cup, a Champions League and a FIFA World Club Cup. Who deserves credit for that the Glazers or Ferguson ?

For me it is obvious truly exceptional World class managers transform Clubs. Look at United under the Glazers and there are two distinct periods with Ferguson and without and here under FSG it has been the same with Klopp and without Klopp.

Four and a half years ago we were 5-0 down at half time to Stoke City, for me people have short memories and seem determined to downplay the effect Klopp has had wherever he has been.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #245 on: October 13, 2019, 04:46:30 pm »
This thread is going to get ruined isn't it....

No one (well, no one who isn't an Evertonian) is downplaying what Kloppo does. It is possible to sperate the work people do within a football club, and give due credit individually as well as a collective.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #246 on: October 13, 2019, 04:50:22 pm »
This thread is going to get ruined isn't it....

No one (well, no one who isn't an Evertonian) is downplaying what Kloppo does. It is possible to sperate the work people do within a football club, and give due credit individually as well as a collective.

For a couple of days it will, then he’ll go back to protesting outside Five Guys or something.

It’s pretty odd not to just go ‘the whole club is smashing it right now, it’s great. The manager most of all’ but it was always going to be this was with any success under FSG. He’s too far gone to start giving them credit.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #247 on: October 13, 2019, 05:09:05 pm »
This thread is going to get ruined isn't it....

No one (well, no one who isn't an Evertonian) is downplaying what Kloppo does. It is possible to sperate the work people do within a football club, and give due credit individually as well as a collective.

Sadly yes. It would be so nice if people could make the most of enjoying this period of our club's success, instead of harping on about agendas and making bizarre comments about things they can't possibly know.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #248 on: October 13, 2019, 06:28:29 pm »
Or to put it another way, as wonderful as we all agree Klopp is, it is absolutely absurd to give no credit or trust to the owners.

Agreed. Though I'm NOT comparing as it would be unfair. But it's like the analogy of Shankly built the house and Paisley put the roof on top.

FSG laid the groundwork and foundations for 5 years - making many mistakes in the process and learning from them. Then Klopp came in, and made the most of that foundation like no one in the game could, and we are having the time of our lives.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #249 on: October 13, 2019, 06:50:26 pm »
Agreed. Though I'm NOT comparing as it would be unfair. But it's like the analogy of Shankly built the house and Paisley put the roof on top.

FSG laid the groundwork and foundations for 5 years - making many mistakes in the process and learning from them. Then Klopp came in, and made the most of that foundation like no one in the game could, and we are having the time of our lives.

What foundations ?

We were going backwards at an alarming rate. We had gone from 2nd in 13/14, to 6th in 14/15 to 8th in 15/16. We had gone from a team that dazzled in 13/14 to a team getting beat 6-1 by Stoke.

The transformation under Klopp has been remarkable yet some people put it down to FSG learning from their mistakes it is baffling.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #250 on: October 13, 2019, 07:00:54 pm »
How many threads in the last month have been Al’d?

Fucking hell, you’d imagine being 8 points clear at the top of the table, the season after missing out by 1 point and winning the CL, that it would be reigned in a tad but the hatred seems to have intensified.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #251 on: October 13, 2019, 07:16:17 pm »
In the Glazers first 8 years as owners of United the Club won 5 League titles, 3 League cups, an Fa Cup, a Champions League and a FIFA World Club Cup. Who deserves credit for that the Glazers or Ferguson ?

For me it is obvious truly exceptional World class managers transform Clubs. Look at United under the Glazers and there are two distinct periods with Ferguson and without and here under FSG it has been the same with Klopp and without Klopp.

Four and a half years ago we were 5-0 down at half time to Stoke City, for me people have short memories and seem determined to downplay the effect Klopp has had wherever he has been.

Minor difference in that FSG hired Klopp, the Glazers didn't hire Ferguson.

Oh and when I say minor, I mean fucking massive.

What foundations ?

We were going backwards at an alarming rate. We had gone from 2nd in 13/14, to 6th in 14/15 to 8th in 15/16. We had gone from a team that dazzled in 13/14 to a team getting beat 6-1 by Stoke.

The transformation under Klopp has been remarkable yet some people put it down to FSG learning from their mistakes it is baffling.

So FSG are to blame for us going backwards, but not for us going forwards. Got ya.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #252 on: October 13, 2019, 07:19:57 pm »
What foundations ?

We were going backwards at an alarming rate. We had gone from 2nd in 13/14, to 6th in 14/15 to 8th in 15/16. We had gone from a team that dazzled in 13/14 to a team getting beat 6-1 by Stoke.

The transformation under Klopp has been remarkable yet some people put it down to FSG learning from their mistakes it is baffling.

Yet despite all the "uselessness" of FSG, Klopp has not for one minute complained about anything to do with them. Not only that, he goes out of his way to let people know how supportive they have been of his aims. Klopp is a wonderful manager and I love everything about him, but he's not superman he cannot do everything single handed, if the right set up is not at the club. The fact that he is prepared to give them his full support and acknowledge their backing of his work should actually say something, even to you Al.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #253 on: October 13, 2019, 07:29:35 pm »
What foundations ?

We were going backwards at an alarming rate. We had gone from 2nd in 13/14, to 6th in 14/15 to 8th in 15/16. We had gone from a team that dazzled in 13/14 to a team getting beat 6-1 by Stoke.

The transformation under Klopp has been remarkable yet some people put it down to FSG learning from their mistakes it is baffling.

No Al, they’re just there to steal the money in an elaborate way you’re yet to make up ;D

I mean what have they ever done to move the club on off the pitch? It’s just a big scam that only you’ve worked out  :)

Just clicked on the main board and my virus scanner came back with this

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #254 on: October 13, 2019, 07:38:47 pm »
No Al, they’re just there to steal the money in an elaborate way you’re yet to make up ;D

I mean what have they ever done to move the club on off the pitch? It’s just a big scam that only you’ve worked out  :)



Why quote my post and then post something that has no correlation to it. If you wish to quote the post why not answer the question in which direction was the Club heading prior to Klopp's first full season in charge ?
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #255 on: October 13, 2019, 07:39:26 pm »
What foundations ?

We were going backwards at an alarming rate. We had gone from 2nd in 13/14, to 6th in 14/15 to 8th in 15/16. We had gone from a team that dazzled in 13/14 to a team getting beat 6-1 by Stoke.

The transformation under Klopp has been remarkable yet some people put it down to FSG learning from their mistakes it is baffling.
What's it down to then?

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #256 on: October 13, 2019, 07:43:50 pm »
How many threads in the last month have been Al’d?

Fucking hell, you’d imagine being 8 points clear at the top of the table, the season after missing out by 1 point and winning the CL, that it would be reigned in a tad but the hatred seems to have intensified.

I actually thought this one might only get a drive-by Al’ing but sadly it seems he’s set up camp
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #257 on: October 13, 2019, 07:46:04 pm »
Yet despite all the "uselessness" of FSG, Klopp has not for one minute complained about anything to do with them. Not only that, he goes out of his way to let people know how supportive they have been of his aims. Klopp is a wonderful manager and I love everything about him, but he's not superman he cannot do everything single handed, if the right set up is not at the club. The fact that he is prepared to give them his full support and acknowledge their backing of his work should actually say something, even to you Al.

Look I have always had the same opinion FSG have done a good job off the pitch but prior to Klopp had been poor in Football terms apart from one season. I just don't buy the argument that FSG made mistakes and learned from them.

For me they had the good sense to appoint Klopp which I applauded at the time and have had the good sense to allow him far more control than Rodgers.


The initial post I replied to was this.

As I said previously, Klopp's successor will be carefully planned out.  Jurgen loves us too much to just up and leave us in the lurch.  This is the new Boot Room - Klopp's replacement will not be a shot in the dark.  If that replacement is Steven Gerrard (for example) it wont be a hit-and-hope choice.  FSG have come too far and learned too much to do that.

Does anyone actually believe that we have a new boot room in place or that FSG have learned that much that they will inevitably get the next managerial appointment right.
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #258 on: October 13, 2019, 07:52:07 pm »
Look I have always had the same opinion FSG have done a good job off the pitch but prior to Klopp had been poor in Football terms apart from one season. I just don't buy the argument that FSG made mistakes and learned from them.

For me they had the good sense to appoint Klopp which I applauded at the time and have had the good sense to allow him far more control than Rodgers.


The initial post I replied to was this.

Does anyone actually believe that we have a new boot room in place or that FSG have learned that much that they will inevitably get the next managerial appointment right.

I’d post a gif for that comment but honestly don’t think one exists to portray how much bullshit it is  ;D

You have always had the same opinion, that’s about where the truth finishes in that post. You’ve been utterly consistent in slating the owners for pretty much anything they’ve done since they walked in the door, a few times going off on borderline xenophobic rants about Americans. Anything bad that happened before Klopp arrived was FSG. Anything good that’s happened since Klopp arrived is in spite of FSG. We all know your opinion, sadly. Which is why everyone cringes when they see you’ve arrived in a thread to start ranting about the owners.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #259 on: October 13, 2019, 07:52:07 pm »
What's it down to then?

One of the best managers that has ever lived. A manager with a track record for getting players to overachieve. A manager who has totally transformed the Club and built a team with incredible hunger, desire and above all an incredible mentality. A manager who has transformed the fanbase and the entire mood of the Club.

As I said earlier people have short memories we were a total shambles towards the end of Rodgers reign. The Club was at war with itself with Rodgers and Edwards sniping at each other in the media and an embarrassingly unbalanced squad.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #260 on: October 13, 2019, 07:56:21 pm »
I’d post a gif for that comment but honestly don’t think one exists to portray how much bullshit it is  ;D

You have always had the same opinion, that’s about where the truth finishes in that post. You’ve been utterly consistent in slating the owners for pretty much anything they’ve done since they walked in the door, a few times going off on borderline xenophobic rants about Americans. Anything bad that happened before Klopp arrived was FSG. Anything good that’s happened since Klopp arrived is in spite of FSG. We all know your opinion, sadly. Which is why everyone cringes when they see you’ve arrived in a thread to start ranting about the owners.

Living up to your username I see. ;D

For me it's a RAWK thing ask fans of any other Club who has turned around Liverpool's fortunes and the answer would be Klopp. On here it is somehow down to FSG learning from their mistakes.  ;D
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 07:59:58 pm by Al 666 »
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #261 on: October 13, 2019, 08:01:15 pm »
Living up to your username I see. ;D

 ;D

Let’s not give the mods any ideas, ‘annoyed by lunatic’ doesn’t read too good
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #262 on: October 13, 2019, 08:01:42 pm »
What about employing Edwards as well Al? Surely another great call by FSG?

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #263 on: October 13, 2019, 08:04:49 pm »
Look I have always had the same opinion FSG have done a good job off the pitch but prior to Klopp had been poor in Football terms apart from one season. I just don't buy the argument that FSG made mistakes and learned from them.

For me they had the good sense to appoint Klopp which I applauded at the time and have had the good sense to allow him far more control than Rodgers.


The initial post I replied to was this.

Does anyone actually believe that we have a new boot room in place or that FSG have learned that much that they will inevitably get the next managerial appointment right.

As has been pointed out to you, the Glazers did not appoint Ferguson.  They did, however, appoint Woodward, Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole.  So which club has gone backwards?

If you don't buy the argument that FSG has learned from their mistakes then you are essentially saying that they just "got lucky" with Klopp.

FSG wont be responsible for this new Boot Room (as I choose to call it); it's something that just creates itself due to the top drawer staff being brought into the club.  The Boot Room is a mindset.  As I alluded to in another post, we're at a point now where we can take one cog out and replace it with another and the machine will carry on just fine.  That same aggressive ambition when it comes to signing backroom staff will apply equally to Klopp's successor.

You basically expect FSG to "fail" again as soon as Klopp goes.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #264 on: October 13, 2019, 08:05:33 pm »
What about employing Edwards as well Al? Surely another great call by FSG?

How was he doing prior to Klopp ?
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #265 on: October 13, 2019, 08:06:20 pm »
How was he doing prior to Klopp ?

He wasn’t in the role he is now prior to Klopp. A good decision to promote him, no?

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #266 on: October 13, 2019, 08:09:42 pm »
As has been pointed out to you, the Glazers did not appoint Ferguson.  They did, however, appoint Woodward, Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole.  So which club has gone backwards?

If you don't buy the argument that FSG has learned from their mistakes then you are essentially saying that they just "got lucky" with Klopp.

FSG wont be responsible for this new Boot Room (as I choose to call it); it's something that just creates itself due to the top drawer staff being brought into the club.  The Boot Room is a mindset.  As I alluded to in another post, we're at a point now where we can take one cog out and replace it with another and the machine will carry on just fine.  That same aggressive ambition when it comes to signing backroom staff will apply equally to Klopp's successor.

You basically expect FSG to "fail" again as soon as Klopp goes.

Firstly who knows how many of the staff and players for that matter will leave if Klopp leaves.

Secondly for me we won't know if FSG have learned from their mistakes until the Klopp effect is no longer here.

Thirdly I haven't said FSG will fail again when Klopp leaves, what I said was that it was wrong to assume that FSG will get the next appointment right. Any managerial appointment is a gamble.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #267 on: October 13, 2019, 08:10:11 pm »
Living up to your username I see. ;D

For me it's a RAWK thing ask fans of any other Club who has turned around Liverpool's fortunes and the answer would be Klopp. On here it is somehow down to FSG learning from their mistakes.  ;D
Why does it have to be one or the other? Can it not be both? I actually agree with you. Most of the credit should go to Klopp. But really does it matter if people give some credit to FSG as well? They’ve done okay. They’re a part of the turnaround in fortunes since the two cancers. This is a bit of pointless debate in a thread that was supposed to be about Klopp.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #268 on: October 13, 2019, 08:12:12 pm »
He wasn’t in the role he is now prior to Klopp. A good decision to promote him, no?

Who knows Craig. Are you suggesting we wouldn't have achieved the success we have had if we hadn't promoted Edwards. Again for me the time to judge Edwards will be when Klopp isn't here because he has such a profound effect on the Clubs he manages.
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Offline CHOPPER

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #269 on: October 13, 2019, 08:12:43 pm »
Close this shite.


It'll end up just like all the other internet warrior dummy out the pram shite threads.



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Offline Rush 82

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #270 on: October 13, 2019, 08:13:21 pm »
Ruined this thread.

Boo

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #271 on: October 13, 2019, 08:15:31 pm »
Why does it have to be one or the other? Can it not be both? I actually agree with you. Most of the credit should go to Klopp. But really does it matter if people give some credit to FSG as well? They’ve done okay. They’re a part of the turnaround in fortunes since the two cancers. This is a bit of pointless debate in a thread that was supposed to be about Klopp.

I don't have a problem with people praising FSG what I have a problem with is the notion that it will be easy to replace Klopp and that FSG will get it right because they have learned so much.
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Offline Red_Mist

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #272 on: October 13, 2019, 08:17:00 pm »
I don't have a problem with people praising FSG what I have a problem with is the notion that it will be easy to replace Klopp and that FSG will get it right because they have learned so much.
Is he off then? Missed that.

Offline royhendo

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #273 on: October 13, 2019, 08:20:03 pm »
Closed it.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #274 on: October 13, 2019, 09:30:21 pm »
Why quote my post and then post something that has no correlation to it. If you wish to quote the post why not answer the question in which direction was the Club heading prior to Klopp's first full season in charge ?
Because Al we’ve done this dance at the disco so many times that frankly it’s so predicable that we all go fast forward to the end. Simple as that. Prior to Klopp, they must have taken even more money out of the club and laid a debt dump truck and shot Bambi’s mum. Twice.
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Offline John C

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #275 on: October 13, 2019, 11:05:47 pm »
Apologies for everyone else that can't reply to all this and to the other Mods who have locked the thread but our annoyance needs qualifying Al

So for me it is a pretty massive assumption that FSG will get the next appointment at Liverpool right.
I'm pretty certain they attempted to secure Jurgen many years before he came - any chance of crediting them for that?
The transformation under Klopp has been remarkable yet some people put it down to FSG learning from their mistakes it is baffling.
For me it's a RAWK thing ask fans of any other Club who has turned around Liverpool's fortunes and the answer would be Klopp. On here it is somehow down to FSG learning from their mistakes.
One person did, not "RAWK", chances are that RB is right anyway.
Any managerial appointment is a gamble.
Ah, ok. Different tact there then.
A manager who has transformed the fanbase and the entire mood of the Club.
A big fuck-off shiny new Main Stand went some way as well .....
Most of all though the reason there is a specific environment at LFC is the way the fanbase got rid of Hicks and Gillet.
I mean seriously, wtf fuck Al. This is a thread to celebrate our wonderful manager and you go off on one of your tangents. And it wasn't a matter of responding to a post in that instance whereby it's an important point to contextualise the thread.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #276 on: October 13, 2019, 11:25:30 pm »
Because Al we’ve done this dance at the disco so many times that frankly it’s so predicable that we all go fast forward to the end. Simple as that. Prior to Klopp, they must have taken even more money out of the club and laid a debt dump truck and shot Bambi’s mum. Twice.

Exactly.

I've said it before, but it's the same arguments every thread. People on RAWK are, broadly, happy with our owners. They don't have posters of them on their bedroom walls, they don't sing songs about them at the game. They're just happy because, especially after H&G, the club is being run well. I don't have to quantify it but the stadium, our commercial revenues, player scouting/purchases and the appointment of Klopp are all positives. That's not to say that there aren't negatives but people are entitled to be happy if they want to be.

But "broadly happy" becomes an argumentative defence when they're forced to make the same points in every single thread and they get sick of the repetition, and threads for discussion about managers, players, stadiums, kit etc being ruined. Everyone here adores Klopp and rightly so. No-one here is trying to underplay his importance in every aspect of this team and this club. We don't get to 97 points and a CL win without him, and he's a wonderful guy to boot. But FSG targeted him, FSG sold him on this club, FSG employed him and FSG continue to support him. They've provided a platform for him to excel and if you can't give them the slightest credit for that than your blinkers go well beyond "holding the owners to account".

Calling out FSG on their mistakes and missteps is fine, it's what a fanbase should do and ours is good at it, as you've highlighted above. Finding any excuse and any thread to criticise them stifles any discussion here on RAWK and drives people away from threads and the forum in general.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 11:27:48 pm by JerseyKloppite »

Offline royhendo

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #277 on: October 19, 2019, 11:58:48 pm »
Unlocking this. I’ll add that I love this man in a way I’ve never known for any other grown man, save for possibly Hinesy.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #278 on: October 20, 2019, 12:00:44 am »
To clarify, I mean Jurgen... albeit Al does arouse me in a visceral way.
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Offline thejbs

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #279 on: October 20, 2019, 09:02:46 am »
In the Glazers first 8 years as owners of United the Club won 5 League titles, 3 League cups, an Fa Cup, a Champions League and a FIFA World Club Cup. Who deserves credit for that the Glazers or Ferguson ?

For me it is obvious truly exceptional World class managers transform Clubs. Look at United under the Glazers and there are two distinct periods with Ferguson and without and here under FSG it has been the same with Klopp and without Klopp.

Four and a half years ago we were 5-0 down at half time to Stoke City, for me people have short memories and seem determined to downplay the effect Klopp has had wherever he has been.

Glazers bought a world class football club with a world class manager and world class squad. The mark of their ownership is how that has slid under their tenure.

FSG inherited a club that was close to bankruptcy, managed by Roy Hodgson with a squad that needed serious investment.

It’s not a like for like comparison.