Topic: Roy Evans

[Sweet Silver Song]

I'd say Stan was a decent player didn't he sign him?A fuck up yes but still a decent player.

I think the Stan signing sums things up for me. Roy broke the British transfer record to get him, he was easily the most talented player bought by the club since before Torres, but was completely mis managed, and proved to be a failure.

But point taken, I should have said, name me one player brought by Roy that proved to be a success.

[Robotforaday]

I think the Stan signing sums things up for me. Roy broke the British transfer record to get him, he was easily the most talented player bought by the club since before Torres, but was completely mis managed, and proved to be a failure.

To be honest, I don't know how anybody would handle someone who finds themselves confronted with someone like Collymore, who's clearly having real problems. I think any teacher would have problems knowing how to handle a student like that, and any boss would have problems knowing how to handle an employee like that. So it's really unlikely to be in a football coach's training.

[johnnyf]

if he was great he wouldn`t have backed down as 1/2 manager after Houllier pushed him out.

[Sweet Silver Song]

To be honest, I don't know how anybody would handle someone who finds themselves confronted with someone like Collymore, who's clearly having real problems. I think any teacher would have problems knowing how to handle a student like that, and any boss would have problems knowing how to handle an employee like that. So it's really unlikely to be in a football coach's training.

Collymore was the most talented footballer of his time, but also the most disturbed and touched. And I include Gazza in there. We knew he had problems when he was at Forest. We knew he was difficult to handle. For any manager. So it begs the question, when one of the weaknesses as a manager is your ability to man manage, gain respect and handle players, why the fuck would you want to sign someone like Collymore? For a British transfer record.

If you had one leg, you wouldn't buy a bicycle.

[reniformis]

Collymore was not a failure here. He was superb in his first season. That Collymore/Fowler partnership produced 60 goals in one season. The sort of thing we are dreaming that Torres/Gerrard are capable of. He went downhill after that, not helped by the fact that Uncle Roy decided that he and Berger were interchangeable. He is no more a failure than Xabi who hasn't lived up to his first season promise either. Stan could have been so much better for us but he was not a failure, certainly not on the scale of a Veron or a Shevchenko.

[Sweet Silver Song]

Collymore was not a failure here. He was superb in his first season. That Collymore/Fowler partnership produced 60 goals in one season. The sort of thing we are dreaming that Torres/Gerrard are capable of. He went downhill after that, not helped by the fact that Uncle Roy decided that he and Berger were interchangeable. He is no more a failure than Xabi who hasn't lived up to his first season promise either. Stan could have been so much better for us but he was not a failure, certainly not on the scale of a Veron or a Shevchenko.

Of course he was a failure. Because I only use the Liverpool FC currency to measure success. Winning things. What exactly did we win when he was here? What dynasty or platform did we build by buying the most expensive player of the time? A one off season when he formed an incredible partnership, but ultimately failed, finshed 3rd and won nothing doesn't do it for me. And then ended up making a loss of £1m  a year later. Afraid, I don't see any crumbs of success there. All I see is failure, missed opportunity and underachievement. Just like the man that brought him to the club.

[4everredrichie]

Of course he was a failure. Because I only use the Liverpool FC currency to measure success. Winning things. What exactly did we win when he was here? What dynasty or platform did we build by buying the most expensive player of the time? A one off season when he formed an incredible partnership, but ultimately failed, finshed 3rd and won nothing doesn't do it for me. And then ended up making a loss of £1m  a year later. Afraid, I don't see any crumbs of success there. All I see is failure, missed opportunity and underachievement. Just like the man that brought him to the club.

Surely the fact that Collymore's signing was not followed up with more top class, big money signings, was the reason that the teams around those years underachieved???

[Sweet Silver Song]

Surely the fact that Collymore's signing was not followed up with more top class, big money signings, was the reason that the teams around those years underachieved???

Surely, the fact that Evans couldn't buy one player who could be deemed a success was the reason we underachieved in those years.

Arguably his best buy was Berger. Reading the Berger thread from a few weeks ago, there were as many people decrying how good he was, as those eulogising him. Is it any wonder a muppet like Moores even lost faith in Evans purchasing ability by the end and pulled the plug on the Sheringham deal. Which would have been his best signing in hindsight. Even if it stopped the Mancs winning their no. 2.

[rosie]

Surely, the fact that Evans couldn't buy one player who could be deemed a success was the reason we underachieved in those years.

Arguably his best buy was Berger. Reading the Berger thread from a few weeks ago, there were as many people decrying how good he was, as those eulogising him. Is it any wonder a muppet like Moores even lost faith in Evans purchasing ability by the end and pulled the plug on the Sheringham deal. Which would have been his best signing in hindsight. Even if it stopped the Mancs winning their no. 2.

would have certainly prevented that treble of theirs.

[reniformis]

Of course he was a failure. Because I only use the Liverpool FC currency to measure success. Winning things. What exactly did we win when he was here? What dynasty or platform did we build by buying the most expensive player of the time? A one off season when he formed an incredible partnership, but ultimately failed, finshed 3rd and won nothing doesn't do it for me. And then ended up making a loss of £1m  a year later. Afraid, I don't see any crumbs of success there. All I see is failure, missed opportunity and underachievement. Just like the man that brought him to the club.

By that reasoning then every player in that team was a failure. Collymore was brought in to do a job which he did, not for long enough granted but surely he can't be blamed for the shiteness of Babb, the unprofessional attitude of the likes of Ruddock and Evans decision to favour a powderpuff central midfield of Barnes and Redknapp. If we don't win anything again next year does that mean that Torres has been a failure?

[Sweet Silver Song]

By that reasoning then every player in that team was a failure. Collymore was brought in to do a job which he did, not for long enough granted but surely he can't be blamed for the shiteness of Babb, the unprofessional attitude of the likes of Ruddock and Evans decision to favour a powderpuff central midfield of Barnes and Redknapp. If we don't win anything again next year does that mean that Torres has been a failure?

Let's not forget who brought Babb, and who allowed the unprofessionalism of Ruddock to fester. As for whether Torres is a failure or not, I doubt it. The rest of team might not be good enough for us to win things. But he's already broken club and Premiership records. Something Collymore never did in his time with us. Ohh, and he'll probably fetch double what we paid for him if we sold him now, and not make a loss.

[markmywords]

Sweet Silver Song,

I accept Roy was poor in the transfer mkt

But we was better at getting the best out of players, that's how me moved from 6th to serious title contenders

Rafa took over a team that was 4th and we haven't been able to progress much further forward, in the league

Ged took over a team that was 3rd, left them in 4th, without make significant progress

Overall they have been as good as one another in the league

[Sweet Silver Song]

Sweet Silver Song,

I accept Roy was poor in the transfer mkt

But we was better at getting the best out of players, that's how me moved from 6th to serious title contenders

The "serious" bit I would debate. Challengers, yes. Best out of his players? or the fact that the young players he inherited all peaked in that season we did "challenge" for the league?

Ged took over a team that was 3rd, left them in 4th, without make significant progress

Ged took over a team that was 8th and going nowhere fast. A team left by Roy. By the same token Roy took over a team that was 6th, and by the time he left it was 8th. Ged did make progress in certain areas. He didn't make progress in all areas. But he was an infinitely better manager than Roy.

Rafa took over a team that was 4th and we haven't been able to progress much further forward, in the league.
Overall they have been as good as one another in the league

Rafa has made progress. Not as fast a progress as some would like, but he is building. Each of the last 4 years we have steadily improved. Roy improvement was down to his youngsters (all inherited) all reaching a peak. By the time Roy's influence became more and more pronounced, we were in decline. He's improvement only last 2 years. And then it was 2 years of decline before he was relieved of his job. That's not building something sustainable, which is what Rafa is doing.

[Old No7]

Roy just wasnt good enough as manager , but his teams were great to watch exciting , a great servent to liverpool football club and goes down as a legend with the ruben bennett , tom saunders and ronnie moran's of the liverpool world as great back room staff , without who the club would not have been the success it was and is .

would of been interesting to see what roy did if he had 1/2 the money houllier did

[the_prodigal_s0n]

would've been interesting to see what roy did if he had 1/2 the money houllier did

I don't know too much about the majority of Roy's reign - most of it was a bit before my time - but as far as I'm concerned the amount Roy spent was definitely similar in terms of inflation to Houllier's expenditure.

[kopk1w1]

Roys' teams were good football playing sides involved in some of the best ever games in the Prem.

Roy was unfortunate to be an old fashioned gaffer in the birth of a new professionalism that was nothing of the kind actually, heralding selfish, individual based players that effectively splintered what Roy was brought up in - the Liverpool Way.

Roy Evans on his own would never sign Stan, he was the exact opposite of everything Roy stood for, but he was shunted into it, of that I have no doubt, the big name syndrome, and Stan was the biggest name of the day.

Kinda why fans are disastrous managers or advisors, they go for the names, and these names rip apart the tradition or togetherness of a dressing room.

[Old No7]

I don't know too much about the majority of Roy's reign - most of it was a bit before my time - but as far as I'm concerned the amount Roy spent was definitely similar in terms of inflation to Houllier's expenditure.

i dont have the figures but i was under the impression it was a lot less.

inflation cant acount for much as houllier followed evans

[the_prodigal_s0n]

inflation cant acount for much as houllier followed evans

Seriously? When Collymore was signed the record transfer was 13,000,000. Collymore was only 4.5 million off that. By the time Houllier had his first full close season in 1999 the record was 31 million and by 2001 it went up to 46,00,000.

[fowlermagic]

Its a tough to look back now and be sure of everything but as a man Roy was spot on me thinks. Obviously too much of a nice guy as some of the players took advanatge of him when a case of tea cups against the wall or a boot to head would have been very appropriate.

His footballing beliefs were to be applauded as he played the game in a manner that was more similar today to Arsenal than us. How we could have done with GH's defensive geniuses blended in with Roy's attacking qualties as the likes of Hyppia, Henchoz & Co would have been the perfect balance for Fowler, Collymore, Berger & Co.

In regards to transfers Roy was outspent by Utd btw 94-98 by 15m plus I think. When we spending 9m on Stan they a year or two later were spending 10m plus on Stam. Says a lot when your rivals can spend that sort of cash on a defender while at the same time buying the likes of Cole & Yorke & Sheringham. Still reminds you a little of todays transfer sagas somewhat but twice as bad back then me thinks.

All & all a great man to have alongside you. Probably should have said no to the managerial position as he still may be here today in some capacity. But hey I am sure sure he had no regrets as he managed the club of his dreams...not Real but LFC. Hats off for that.

[Sweet Silver Song]

would've been interesting to see what roy did if he had 1/2 the money houllier did

Yeah, we could've bought 3 more Phil Babbs and a couple more Oyvind Leornardsen's if they released the purse strings.

[Sweet Silver Song]

Seriously? When Collymore was signed the record transfer was 13,000,000. Collymore was only 4.5 million off that. By the time Houllier had his first full close season in 1999 the record was 31 million and by 2001 it went up to 46,00,000.

No Roy broke the transfer record when we bought Stan. That was the last time any Liverpol manager broke the transfer record. Ged and Rafa have had to operate in the transfer market with one hand tied behind their backs since. Because other teams spending powers overtook us in the period Roy was in charge.

[Sweet Silver Song]

All & all a great man to have alongside you. Probably should have said no to the managerial position as he still may be here today in some capacity. But hey I am sure sure he had no regrets as he managed the club of his dreams...not Real but LFC. Hats off for that.

Fowlermagic, you're actually congratulating a man for managing his dream club. Regardless of the damage that did to the club. Sorry, I can't buy that. The club comes before any individual in my book.

[mcevand]

Fowlermagic, you're actually congratulating a man for managing his dream club. Regardless of the damage that did to the club. Sorry, I can't buy that. The club comes before any individual in my book.

Would have been interesting to see how he would have done with this current team as i beleive it was the lack of a decent back 4 which cost us a couple of league titles under roy

[Sweet Silver Song]

Roys' teams were good football playing sides involved in some of the best ever games in the Prem.

Roy was unfortunate to be an old fashioned gaffer in the birth of a new professionalism that was nothing of the kind actually, heralding selfish, individual based players that effectively splintered what Roy was brought up in - the Liverpool Way.

Roy Evans on his own would never sign Stan, he was the exact opposite of everything Roy stood for, but he was shunted into it, of that I have no doubt, the big name syndrome, and Stan was the biggest name of the day.

Kinda why fans are disastrous managers or advisors, they go for the names, and these names rip apart the tradition or togetherness of a dressing room.

Are you seriously suggesting that the board decided to buy Stan instead of Roy? If so I don't buy that at all. The board have often stopped managers buying certain players, but have never bought a player for the manager. The nearest I can think of was when Moores and Parry tried to get Rafa  to buy back Owen. But, like any self respecting and decent MANAGER, Rafa was having none of it. Whichever, scenario happened in the case of Stan, I don't think Roy can cover himself in glory.

[markmywords]

The "serious" bit I would debate. Challengers, yes. Best out of his players? or the fact that the young players he inherited all peaked in that season we did "challenge" for the league?

The best yrs of Fowler's and Macca' career (performance wise) were with us then, Roy deserves credit for extracting such good performances from people so young, Fowler must have been Ryan Babbel age, yet ryan is still in the Kiddy pool carrer stage

Ged took over a team that was 8th and going nowhere fast. A team left by Roy. By the same token Roy took over a team that was 6th, and by the time he left it was 8th. Ged did make progress in certain areas. He didn't make progress in all areas. But he was an infinitely better manager than Roy.

The season before GED came to LFC we finished 3rd, he was joint manager till nov and full manager for the remaining 7 months of the season ehich we eventually finished 7th, if my memory serves me well.  GED had the reins of a team that had finished 3rd the yr before end of.

Rafa has made progress. Not as fast a progress as some would like, but he is building. Each of the last 4 years we have steadily improved. Roy improvement was down to his youngsters (all inherited) all reaching a peak. By the time Roy's influence became more and more pronounced, we were in decline. He's improvement only last 2 years. And then it was 2 years of decline before he was relieved of his job. That's not building something sustainable, which is what Rafa is doing.

We had 1 yr of decline where we finished 3rd in 1998 under Evans, Finishing 3rd was Rafa carrer peak at LFC in the prem, that is unsustainable

[Sweet Silver Song]

Would have been interesting to see how he would have done with this current team as i beleive it was the lack of a decent back 4 which cost us a couple of league titles under roy

He would have fucked it up. I have no doubts at all in my mind. Rafa has steadily improved what HE INHERITED with good and decent additions through the transfer market. Roy was the opposite. He steadily deteriorated what HE INHERITED with poor and substandard purchases.  Take what you said the other way round. I have no doubts Rafa and even Ged would have turned that team Roy had inherited into champions.

As for decent back four. I'm afraid Roy had that. Mark Wright was one of the best English defenders of his time. And Phil Babb had all the raw ingredients of a decent defender. What they lacked was a manager and coach to set them up properly.

[Sweet Silver Song]

The best yrs of Fowler's and Macca' career (performance wise) were with us then, Roy deserves credit for extracting such good performances from people so young, Fowler must have been Ryan Babbel age, yet ryan is still in the Kiddy pool carrer stage

The season before GED came to LFC we finished 3rd, he was joint manager till nov and full manager for the remaining 7 months of the season ehich we eventually finished 7th, if my memory serves me well.  GED had the reins of a team that had finished 3rd the yr before end of.

We had 1 yr of decline where we finished 3rd in 1998 under Evans, Finishing 3rd was Rafa carrer peak at LFC in the prem, that is unsustainable

Fowler was the greatest talent to come through our books since Shanks was here. Him and Ryan aren't in the same class. Fowler would have been the player he was with whoever we had in charge.

What is unsustainable was that season we did challenge for the league. Where were the fruits of that challenge? Did we go on and build from there? Did we improve further and challenge again. No we fell away. Because what was happening at the club was unsustainable. That season we challenged was only because the youngsters peaked. Not because of anything Roy did. Because Roy couldn't build. Only decent manager's build. Even better ones build sustainably. Steadily improving your team, it's performance and the youth and reserve set up is what Rafa has been doing these last 4 years. Chalk and cheese to anything Roy ever did.

[markmywords]

He would have fucked it up. I have no doubts at all in my mind. Rafa has steadily improved what HE INHERITED with good and decent additions through the transfer market. Roy was the opposite. He steadily deteriorated what HE INHERITED with poor and substandard purchases.  Take what you said the other way round. I have no doubts Rafa and even Ged would have turned that team Roy had inherited into champions.

As for decent back four. I'm afraid Roy had that. Mark Wright was one of the best English defenders of his time. And Phil Babb had all the raw ingredients of a decent defender. What they lacked was a manager and coach to set them up properly.

Moving from (yr before he took over)6th to (last full yr in sole charge)3rd is not deterioration in my book

[Sweet Silver Song]

Moving from (yr before he took over)6th to (last full yr in sole charge)3rd is not deterioration in my book

Only because he was relieved of his job before he took us back down to 6th again. That team that Ged was brought into help him manage, the club was going nowhere. It was bolstered into achieving 3rd place again by another amazing talent to come through - Owen. Roy was the most luckiest of any Liverpool manager we had since Shanks for the amount of talent that came through while he was in charge. Finishing 4th, 3rd, 4th and 3rd again isn't any sort of acheivement  when this is taken into account. It's a damnation.

[markmywords]

Fowler was the greatest talent to come through our books since Shanks was here. Him and Ryan aren't in the same class. Fowler would have been the player he was with whoever we had in charge.

What is unsustainable was that season we did challenge for the league. Where were the fruits of that challenge? Did we go on and build from there? Did we improve further and challenge again. No we fell away. Because what was happening at the club was unsustainable. That season we challenged was only because the youngsters peaked. Not because of anything Roy did. Because Roy couldn't build. Only decent manager's build. Even better ones build sustainably. Steadily improving your team, it's performance and the youth and reserve set up is what Rafa has been doing these last 4 years. Chalk and cheese to anything Roy ever did.

I could put all our achievements under Rafa down to gerrard, who is Fowler + 1, I would not be so ungenerous to a good LFC man like Rafa, you should extend Roy the same courtousy

For all Rafa's steady improvement we finished 4th in his 4th yr, with no titles, after he took over a club that had finished 4th the yr before he came

Whilst Evens finished 3rd, whilst he took over a club that had finished 6th.

You can attribute credit to the kids, the tea lady, the programme printers, but the facts remain

[Sweet Silver Song]

I could put all our achievements under Rafa down to gerrard, who is Fowler + 1, I would not be so ungenerous to a good LFC man like Rafa, you should extend Roy the same courtousy

For all Rafa's steady improvement we finished 4th in his 4th yr, with no titles, after he took over a club that had finished 4th the yr before he came

Whilst Evens finished 3rd, whilst he took over a club that had finished 6th.

You can attribute credit to the kids, the tea lady, the programme printers, but the facts remain

Your forgeting that Rafa isn't operating in the same world as Roy operated in. In Roy's time he could bolster his squad with competing for the best players in the market. He could break British transfer records to get them. Rafa's time is different. Rafa has to bolster his squad with second tier players Man U and Cheslea don't want.

And let's not forget who we can attribute to significantly contributing to that disparity between us and Man U in terms of wealth and competing in the transfer market.

[markmywords]

Your forgeting that Rafa isn't operating in the same world as Roy operated in. In Roy's time he could bolster his squad with competing for the best players in the market. He could break British transfer records to get them. Rafa's time is different. Rafa has to bolster his squad with second tier players Man U and Cheslea don't want.

And let's not forget who we can attribute to significantly contributing to that disparity between us and Man U in terms of wealth and competing in the transfer market.

Tha would be the men who give planning permission for Old Trafford to be extended to 80,000, but limits anfield

In Roy's day OT was about 45-55,000, he didn't slab on the bricks, so I wouldn't blame him.

LFC's heyday is now further and further in the past, it was a pretty clear picture for Roy's team and a real noose around our neck in the early to mid 90-'s and as such that hurt player recuitment/morale/expectation and so on.

you only have to look at the laughing stock Real were in 2003-2006, in the immediate aftermath of the galatico yrs, when you fall from grace it hurts

[fowlermagic]

Fowlermagic, you're actually congratulating a man for managing his dream club. Regardless of the damage that did to the club. Sorry, I can't buy that. The club comes before any individual in my book.

I dont want to pick a fight but if you want to pee my direction fair deuce.

In regards to the damage Evans did to the club its very debatable he left the club in the same chaos as Souness did to him. But if you want to look at the various seasons each manager (sole leadership) Liverpool have had since Souness you see the following:

Souness took over a club who finished runners up the year before. When he left the club was averaging 6th place finishes and 25 plus points behind the the title winners over his leadership.

Evans came in & took over a side who was 35 plus points behind the champs and within 1 season finished 4th (15 points off the title). Over his time solely in charge he averaged 3rd place and came within 7 points of winning the title. Never once finished outside the top 4, averaged 12 points or less from Champs over his leadership. Left the club 13 points behind the winners in his last year.

GH came in and continued the 3rd place averages coming within 7 points of winning the title. Never once finished outside the top 4 but averaged 18 points behind the champs over his leadership but did leave the club 30 points behind the winners in his last year.

Rafa has averaged 4th place finishes and came within 9 points of winning the title. Has finished outside the top 4 just once and averaged 20 points behind the champs over his leadership.

So in summary Evans took over the club at its lowest point in the past 20 years. He came as close as any body to win the title. His year in year out consistency is bettered by no one and from Souness to GH, left the club in a better state than anyone based on league performances.

Should I shake it once or twice?

[markmywords]

Rafa also has access to some of the best players in europe nowadays, Torres, babel, morientes, alonso

in Roy's day, it was scandinavians and or over the hill, last pay day merchants mainly.  Even the best Man U could do was porborsky

[Sweet Silver Song]

I dont want to pick a fight but if you want to pee my direction fair deuce.

In regards to the damage Evans did to the club its very debatable he left the club in the same chaos as Souness did to him. But if you want to look at the various seasons each manager (sole leadership) Liverpool have had since Souness you see the following:

Souness took over a club who finished runners up the year before. When he left the club was averaging 6th place finishes and 25 plus points behind the the title winners over his leadership.

Evans came in & took over a side who was 35 plus points behind the champs and within 1 season finished 4th (15 points off the title). Over his time solely in charge he averaged 3rd place and came within 7 points of winning the title. Never once finished outside the top 4, averaged 12 points or less from Champs over his leadership. Left the club 13 points behind the winners in his last year.

GH came in and continued the 3rd place averages coming within 7 points of winning the title. Never once finished outside the top 4 but averaged 18 points behind the champs over his leadership but did leave the club 30 points behind the winners in his last year.

Rafa has averaged 4th place finishes and came within 9 points of winning the title. Has finished outside the top 4 just once and averaged 20 points behind the champs over his leadership.

So in summary Evans took over the club at its lowest point in the past 20 years. He came as close as any body to win the title. His year in year out consistency is bettered by no one and from Souness to GH, left the club in a better state than anyone based on league performances.

Should I shake it once or twice?

Roy was the worst manager we could have appointed. You couldn't name me one quality he had as a manager that improved Liverpool, beyond what any average Premiership manager could have done.

[Sweet Silver Song]

Rafa also has access to some of the best players in europe nowadays, Torres, babel, morientes, alonso

in Roy's day, it was scandinavians and or over the hill, last pay day merchants mainly.  Even the best Man U could do was porborsky

That's why we are probably the 4th best team in Europe. But also the 4th best team in England.

[Sweet Silver Song]

Tha would be the men who give planning permission for Old Trafford to be extended to 80,000, but limits anfield

In Roy's day OT was about 45-55,000, he didn't slab on the bricks, so I wouldn't blame him.

LFC's heyday is now further and further in the past, it was a pretty clear picture for Roy's team and a real noose around our neck in the early to mid 90-'s and as such that hurt player recuitment/morale/expectation and so on.

you only have to look at the laughing stock Real were in 2003-2006, in the immediate aftermath of the galatico yrs, when you fall from grace it hurts

It's something I've stated before. So for the purposes of brevity, I'll just summarise;

Man U -  Great pool of youngsters all coming through
Liverpool - Great pool of youngsters all coming through

Man U - Supplement squad with buying decent additions through the transfer market
Liverpool- We bought the likes of Ovyind Leonardsen.

Man U - as a result of youngsters coming  through supplemented by good transfers, dominate English football without too much of a challenge.
Liverpool - as a result of good youngsters all peaking, did well for a season, but fell away because of poor additions through the transfer market. And stagnated.

Man U won trophies.
Liverpool didn't.

Man U attracted new fans and money at a time when both were exploding.
Liverpool didn't.

Man U needed bigger ground to get bigger, and got bigger
Liverpool didn't. 

[fowlermagic]

Roy was the worst manager we could have appointed. You couldn't name me one quality he had as a manager that improved Liverpool, beyond what any average Premier League manager could have done.

You are right as the man did not right the ship from its worse position in 20 years. His team did not average better finishes in the league than anyone else we have had in charge since Kenny. If that is all you can say after my post then good luck. If Roy was average then hey things have not changed much in the league for us since have they?

[Sweet Silver Song]

You are right as the man did not right the ship from its worse position in 20 years. His team did not average better finishes in the league than anyone else we have had in charge since Kenny. If that is all you can say after my post then good luck. If Roy was average then hey things have not changed much in the league for us since have they?

Roy wasn't average. He was worse than that. No average premiership team would touch him after he left us. Not even the relegation fodder. He went onto manage Swindon Town after us. So for the most crucial time in the history of football when the econmics were changing everything, we had a manager in charge that was only good enough for Swindon Town.

[fowlermagic]

May I also add your agenda be a lot more appropriate if aimed at say Souness rather than Evans. As I outlined Roy's team did no worse than any other manager we have had in the league. In fact he did better and playing in a style of football that does not bore the feck out of any unbiased fan.