Topic: Never mind 'Stop the Boats' - STOP THE TORIES

[filopastry]

GBPUSD under 1.10 now

[Nobby Reserve]

[Schmidt]

The media keep talking about the poor getting poorer, but I worry that a lot of the poor don't identify as such. Given that many people in the UK seem to be out for themselves and lack any kind of empathy for those less fortunate, I wonder if it can partially explain this "turkeys voting for Christmas" problem we're having.

[Nobby Reserve]

It's a huge positive that 'trickle down' is now getting the widespread derision that this con deserves.

You would get more economic stimulus from increasing the tax on high earners/high-value asset-holders then re-introducing that tax revenue into the economy as higher spending in public services. The additional people you employ then spend that money in local businesses, which then leads to businesses employing more people, etc etc.

Handing tax cuts to millionaires does nothing but see an increase in money squirrelled away overseas and into property letting.

Unfortunately, Labour run away from shouting this message from the rooftops

[Libertine]

It's frustrating that people vote for left leaning parties like the Lib Dems and the Greens, knowing that essentially it's a vote for the Tories.

Depends where they live.

There's a swathe of seats (largely in the south) where a vote for Labour is a vote for the Tories.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

The UK bond markets are taking a beating today. Think Kwasi's just fucked it up.

[Elmo!]

I like how Sky News are shoing a ticker saying "Truss Day 18: £1 = $1.09"

[west_london_red]

The UK bond markets are taking a beating today. Think Kwasi's just fucked it up.

You have to be a pretty special kind of stupid to throw money at people, and those same people telling you it’s a fucking disaster.

[filopastry]

Given the inflationary environment and growth stimulus from this, the primary macroeconomic outcome of throwing away any fiscal headroom we have (and more!) will be to increase interest rates rather than growth, absolute madness

[Indomitable_Carp]

At what point do people in Britain really start kicking off? I know its not the traditional way - but after 12 years of this shit there surely has to be a limit? Or are people really so brow-beaten and passified that they will just continue to take what is dished out until the problem hopefully just one day fixes itself?

And now to think that some of the most grossly unpopular and most intensely ideologically motivated unregulated free-market capitalist policies for 40 years (this is straight out of the shock-doctrine playbook) are now being imposed by a government that wasn´t even elected by the people.

When?!!

[Jshooters]

At what point do people in Britain really start kicking off? I know its not the traditional way - but after 12 years of this shit there surely has to be a limit? Or are people really so brow-beaten and passified that they will just continue to take what is dished out until the problem hopefully just one day fixes itself?

And now to think that some of the most grossly unpopular and most intensely ideologically motivated unregulated free-market capitalist policies for 40 years (this is straight out of the shock-doctrine playbook) are now being imposed by a government that wasn´t even elected by the people.

When?!!

I really think that most of the electorate are simply oblivious

[Nobby Reserve]

At what point do people in Britain really start kicking off? I know its not the traditional way - but after 12 years of this shit there surely has to be a limit? Or are people really so brow-beaten and passified that they will just continue to take what is dished out until the problem hopefully just one day fixes itself?

And now to think that some of the most grossly unpopular and most intensely ideologically motivated unregulated free-market capitalist policies for 40 years (this is straight out of the shock-doctrine playbook) are now being imposed by a government that wasn´t even elected by the people.

When?!!

[Red-Soldier]

I really think that most of the electorate are simply oblivious

Yep.  They are just simply too ignorant to grasp the situation.

I have a (retired) relative, who has voted Tory in a fair number of GE, yet, she continues to moan about the state of the health service; stating that she had paid their NI throughout thir working life, and now there is nothing left of the service, when she needs it.   

People just cannot connect the dots.

[Circa1892]

I really think that most of the electorate are simply oblivious

My mum - who, sadly - has often gone with the Tories even though its completely against her interests and is pretty ignorant on these things (her voting rationale is that her grandma would turn in her grave if she voted Labour - even though her gran died either in the first Wilson govt or under Heath...). But she's sent a rare political message today saying Truss seems very unimpressive and that she doesn't understand why cutting taxes for the rich will help anything.

So that's their secondary base - old people who vote for them because they always have, turning...

[west_london_red]

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1573324063266803716?s=46&t=yhKalwMHtMyYVnWKdc-KGA

Pretty damning stuff from a former US Treasury Secretary.

[Circa1892]

Can't see Truss and Kwarteng lasting until Christmas at this rate. Fucking catastrophic day.

[Red-Soldier]

Can't see Truss and Kwarteng lasting until Christmas at this rate. Fucking catastrophic day.

Who's going to stop them?

Will they vote Johnson back in 

[TSC]

Just in from work and listened to the chancellor delivering his budget.  Aside from the nonsense content he sounds like Sean Dyche on a bad day.

[TSC]

Sky reporting the markets are now pricing in interest rates increasing to 5.5%

[Elmo!]

Sky reporting the markets are now pricing in interest rates increasing to 5.5%

I think they said they that is based on raising their prediction for rates next year going up from 4.5% to 5.5% - so not an immediate rise.

[Circa1892]

Sky reporting the markets are now pricing in interest rates increasing to 5.5%

And BoE might do an emergency rate rise next week.

Kwarteng is such a c*nt. Clearly spent his whole life thinking he's the smartest guy in the room when he's a dipshit.

[west_london_red]

And BoE might do an emergency rate rise next week.

Kwarteng is such a c*nt. Clearly spent his whole life thinking he's the smartest guy in the room when he's a dipshit.

Where did you hear that? That would be a massive step, pretty much an admission that there’s a run on the pound.

[Circa1892]

Where did you hear that? That would be a massive step, pretty much an admission that there’s a run on the pound.

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1573341352259108870?s=20&t=UTCdZ3D7Mqy9GnEWD1g4nw

[Red-Soldier]

And BoE might do an emergency rate rise next week.

Kwarteng is such a c*nt. Clearly spent his whole life thinking he's the smartest guy in the room when he's a dipshit.

This is not an accident.  Frottage (and all the other Brexit nutters) have been calling for a run on the pound for a while.

[Wabaloolah]

That's made me more livid than the scrapping of the 45% band.

IR35 is vital. Before it, de facto employees were able to be 'employed' by companies on a self-employed basis, allowing companies to pay no NI and save on other costs, and the self-employed 'employee' to pay less NI and lower their tax bill through writing off 'expenses'

We need to be getting more hardline on tax and the scum who dodge it, but this corrupt shower of shite are going the opposite direction.

I wouldn't necessarily argue against that, I have only just started down the contracting route but essentially not having to be an "employee" without the benefits of being an employee will at first glance allow me to keep around an extra £1200 per month based on my current daily rate.

That will allow me to pay a decent amount into a pension scheme, save some money in between contracts and take out some income protection and life insurance which I won't be getting from any employer even if I am within IR35 (which the current contract is)

[spen71]

Whats the odds on her lasting less than 100 days

[PaulF]

That isn't getting reinvested I can tell you that much. Most likely it will get paid to shareholders, directors etc by various means and as someone said on here recently they can only spend so much so most will be in savings or investments etc.

Why are you so sure companies won't invest a significant portion of tax savings. If I were running Sainsburys and could open a store in another country when the pound is so weak, I would.

@Thaddeus.  Inflated house prices 'benefit' three types of owner. Those that are downsizing (rare) and those that can borrow more as their LTV has changed (arguably borrowing more isn't a benefit) , and those who pay less mortgage because of LTV . (though wiped out due to interest rate rises!)

--EDIT-- almost every post I've seen today on linked in is celebrating the scrapping of IR35.
--EDIT EDIT -- 108.75 GBP to USD now.  If this were the FTSE they'd have forced trading to stop.

[Wabaloolah]

Whats the odds on her lasting less than 100 days

If the Tories keep tanking in the polls she'll face a leadership challenge in the new year of that there is no doubt, the problem they have is that the majority of the c*nts in the parliamentary party share Truss' ideology, they might not like her personally but they will love that their backers are being given a huge tax cut when they don't need it, yet those on Universal Credit are being threatened with having their benefits cut if they can't prove they are doing more to actively seek work

[west_london_red]

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1573341352259108870?s=20&t=UTCdZ3D7Mqy9GnEWD1g4nw

That’s DB saying there should be an emergency rate rise, not that there might be.

If that does happen though, I suspect it will be an absolute disaster, speculators and currency traders will just smell blood and panic in the BoE and government and go even harder against the pound.

I’m still struggling to understand how we’ve ended up here, it’s absolutely fucked.

[Wabaloolah]

--EDIT-- almost every post I've seen today on linked in is celebrating the scrapping of IR35.

Yes I mentioned it earlier that it's the one benefit to me personally that has come out of the budget, LinkedIn is where many contractors pick up contracts so not surprised that they are celebrating due to the number of contractors that will be on there

[Wabaloolah]

That’s DB saying there should be an emergency rate rise, not that there might be.

If that does happen though, I suspect it will be an absolute disaster, speculators and currency traders will just smell blood and panic in the BoE and government and go even harder against the pound.

I’m still struggling to understand how we’ve ended up here, it’s absolutely fucked.

It kind of reminds me of the day in 1992 when we dropped out of the ERM, interest rates pretty much tripled in one day to 15% before being dropped back to 10% when we were forced to leave the Exchange Rate Mechanism.  No surprise that it was under a Tory Chancellor (Norman Lamont) but you'd happily have those Tories back at the expense of these charlatans!

[Studgotelli]

That’s DB saying there should be an emergency rate rise, not that there might be.

If that does happen though, I suspect it will be an absolute disaster, speculators and currency traders will just smell blood and panic in the BoE and government and go even harder against the pound.

I’m still struggling to understand how we’ve ended up here, it’s absolutely fucked.

Eh? The more the BOE raises rates, the more likely it is to rally vs other currencies…

£ weakness vs $ is a mostly $ story.

At this point they have to now overshoot and cause a hard recession to bring inflation closer to target. This has been an unavoidable truth since the initial inflation burst was dismissed by central banks as transitory in ‘21.

EDIT: BOE absolutely bottled it yesterday with the 50bps raise.

[PaulF]

Is it 'wrong' to keep the 2% target?
Maybe to save the leg, we shouldn't chop off the arms?
(Except for Pickford, who'd not notice)

[Studgotelli]

Is it 'wrong' to keep the 2% target?
Maybe to save the leg, we shouldn't chop off the arms?
(Except for Pickford, who'd not notice)

Absolutely wrong. All this will do is create a deep recession which they will have to stimulate us out of causing a second inflation wave. It also takes months for interest rate rises to take effect so it’s amazing how aggressive the Federal Reserve have been.

Imo this next cycle is where we see double digit inflation entrenched and perhaps 70s style interest rates. The next 10 years are going to be pretty ugly if you’re over-leveraged.

[Wghennessy]

Signed up to work weekend at my local food bank today on the back of this. Horrible Tory bastards.

[PaulF]

it’s amazing how aggressive the Federal Reserve have been.

Guess it's all about signalling?  They will absolute hammer everything to keep inflation down?

[Nobby Reserve]

The Torygraph in a parallel universe:


Headline by ALLISTER HEATH: Kwasi Kwarteng's Budget is a moment in history that will radically transform Britain. With one move, Britain’s competitiveness, its investor friendliness and its attractiveness to top talent has been hugely amplified.

JEREMY WARNER: This mini-Budget was a risky breath of fresh air

MATTHEW LESH: Kwarteng is right to ignore the howls of the commentariat and go for growth

JANET DALEY: This was nothing less than a revolutionary Budget. It was a clear and resounding repudiation of the Big State-high tax interventionism willingly embraced for the last decade

No comment at all or any articles about the sinking pound or what is happening on the bond markets, which both suggest serious concerns about the UK economy and signal trouble ahead.

REJOICE, REJOICE!

[west_london_red]

Eh? The more the BOE raises rates, the more likely it is to rally vs other currencies…

£ weakness vs $ is a mostly $ story.

At this point they have to now overshoot and cause a hard recession to bring inflation closer to target. This has been an unavoidable truth since the initial inflation burst was dismissed by central banks as transitory in ‘21.

EDIT: BOE absolutely bottled it yesterday with the 50bps raise.

Yeah, another rate rise should help the pound but my point is if they do one next week out of their usual cycle it will smell of panic by the BoE and the government, and usually signs of panic don’t go down well with traders and bankers.

The BoE didn’t just bottle it yesterday, they have been bottling it for the last decade.

[PaulF]

BBC headline now showing as "Pound falls as chancellor cuts income tax and stamp duty"

[Nobby Reserve]

Yes I mentioned it earlier that it's the one benefit to me personally that has come out of the budget, LinkedIn is where many contractors pick up contracts so not surprised that they are celebrating due to the number of contractors that will be on there

There's no issue with contractors who do temporary work for companies then move on, but IR35 was designed to stop such practices like [eg] IT 'contractors' working for a company for years by providing the IT support function, having their own desk/office, and claiming they weren't employees (for tax-dodging purposes)

Obviously not just IT people, but they are the ones I heard most tantrums from when it was introduced.

This also allows shyster companies like Uber and the delivery companies to get away with fucking-over their 'employees' (personally, I'd scrap the whole gig economy con)