Topic: Darwin Núñez (Darwin Gabriel Núñez Ribeiro)

[Scottymuser]

For me the most disappointing thing about his season was how it tapered off towards the end. After the brace against United I thought he looked set to end the season strongly but I think he only scored against Leeds after that and got less and less minutes.

There was times when we looked totally grim earlier in the season and I thought Nunez was a bright spark. On the whole I've liked what I've seen - It's been a poor season all round for much of the squad and I think if we can find a top level again Nunez will only benefit from that. As someone else says a stronger midfield can't hurt next season, but it does look like Diaz/Gakpo/Salah could form a main attacking trio with Nunez and Jota lying in waiting. That's hardly a bad thing, like.

Hoping Nunez can have a really good pre-season now, bang a few in, look likely and make his case known for next season. He's got a lot more to give us I feel and should at the least 'get minutes' next season.

Diaz had as equally poor an end of season set of cameos, at least imo, than Nunez at any point in the season - 6 starts, over 380 minutes, but only 1 goal (and no assists) - over the same 2 months, Nunez had about 220 mins, and the same one goal.  Nunez at the start of the season, I'd argue, was as equally impressive as Diaz was in the second half of the season last year also (in fact, would have been arguably better if he'd scored a few of the chances he misseD).  So why is it always Diaz that people want to have in the first 3.

[disgraced cake]

Diaz had as equally poor an end of season set of cameos, at least imo, than Nunez at any point in the season - 6 starts, over 380 minutes, but only 1 goal (and no assists) - over the same 2 months, Nunez had about 220 mins, and the same one goal.  Nunez at the start of the season, I'd argue, was as equally impressive as Diaz was in the second half of the season last year also (in fact, would have been arguably better if he'd scored a few of the chances he misseD).  So why is it always Diaz that people want to have in the first 3.

I agree with you that Diaz didn't end very strongly, but as for the bolded part, I'd have to disagree entirely and imagine most others would do so. Diaz looked totally world class from the moment he walked through the door and I thought he raised our levels massively last season. His absence has been massive this season. The reason people want him in the side is because if he can get back to that level then we'll be laughing again next season.

Have to assume Diaz/Gakpo/Salah is how we'll line up. Salah is obviously staying in, and it looks pretty obvious they fancy Gakpo who again has been a really good addition and I feel we haven't seen the best of him yet. Diaz came in and we moved Mane through the middle which helped things massively, if he is fit and has a good pre-season that'll surely be the front 3 to start the season ideally. It is a bit shit for Nunez, I'm a big fan of his and truth be told it agitated me a lot last season that we just didn't regularly play him through the middle, and I'm sure his numbers would have looked just rosy in an underperforming side. And then there's Jota, I was worried about him a few months ago but then he goes and reminds you that he's probably the most clinical player at the club.

Not exactly a bad thing is it, but I do believe over the grand scheme of things that Nunez would net us the most goals through the middle out of himself/Gakpo/Jota but it's like with Bobby, how he made us 'tick' - that's what Gakpo will do and it favours the way Klopp/Lijnders want to play. I more than like what I've seen from Nunez and would suggest he still has a big future here though, he just has to find that moment which will be the making of him because he'll definitely get plenty of minutes playing. A lot of people are currently looking at him as being underwhelming since joining but in the context of how the whole team have struggled I think he done his part last season.

[Clint Eastwood]

It would be sad if Jota was just a bench player, he came on strong after his injury and believe he should be starting, until it seems he isn't up for it.

Nunez for me would be warming the bench at the start of the season am afraid to say. Hope he has a belter of a season though and proves me wrong.

Issue with Jota is that he's injury prone. A bit like Thiago, you have it in the back of your mind when you think of a provisional team for next season. Every team needs 'bench players' like him. He will get enough minutes to be happy and will play a big part and will get over 10 goals a season. He's our Alvarez. Besides, if any of Gakpo, Diaz, Salah are injured/drop off in form then he's first in line to replace them.

Diaz goes straight into the first team because he's the best fit for that side stylistically, and despite his post-injury form, he's proven more since his arrival than Nunez has. Although I am a bit worried about his pace since returning from injury.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

The cynical part of me wonders if we are trying to limit his playing time this season to cut down on the performance bonuses part of the transfer fee, whatever they are. This is done quite a bit in North American sports in terms of getting more years of service from a player, won’t be surprised if they kept him off more often than not at the end for fitness purposes, while saving a few quid in the process.

[nerdster4]

So far , Nunez has been a poor signing . You wonder how we might have done with a one or two midfield signings instead .

His ceiling is very high though . Let’s see how he starts next season as it will be a crucial one for him .

[liverbloke]

Diaz had as equally poor an end of season set of cameos, at least imo, than Nunez at any point in the season - 6 starts, over 380 minutes, but only 1 goal (and no assists) - over the same 2 months, Nunez had about 220 mins, and the same one goal.  Nunez at the start of the season, I'd argue, was as equally impressive as Diaz was in the second half of the season last year also (in fact, would have been arguably better if he'd scored a few of the chances he misseD).  So why is it always Diaz that people want to have in the first 3.

you can't argue a point for goals 'missed' - fuckin el mo would be on 100 goals by now - i think the point is that he 'missed' them

and the second point- because it's plain for all to see that diaz is a much better player

nunez needs a good season because he needs to be more than just a likeable cult figure

[JackWard33]

and the second point- because it's plain for all to see that diaz is a much better player

Not sure what you mean he’s better at .. he’s a way better attacking midfielder but he’s a way worse forward … Nunez dwarfs his offensive output even when playing on the left

[tubby]

Not sure what you mean he’s better at .. he’s a way better attacking midfielder but he’s a way worse forward … Nunez dwarfs his offensive output even when playing on the left

Think Diaz is technically better, the ball doesn't bounce off him like it does Nunez.  But agree that his output is nowhere near the level of Darwin's.

[Henry Gale]

I fucking love him! I hope he gets plenty game time next season. I think he can be a monster for us in the future. Last season was similar to his first in Benfica then exploded in his second season, Given the chance I think he can do the same here.

[AlphaDelta]

There is reportedly a lot of interest in him from other clubs who clearly think we would cash in on him.

IMO it would be madness to get rid so early, give him one more season at the very least. I know its a much played record, but every player is different and a youngster coming to a foreign country without speaking the language is tough going.

[tubby]

There is reportedly a lot of interest in him from other clubs who clearly think we would cash in on him.

Where are you seeing this?

[liverbloke]

Not sure what you mean he’s better at .. he’s a way better attacking midfielder but he’s a way worse forward … Nunez dwarfs his offensive output even when playing on the left

mate - tubby's already answered it - diaz has more natural skill, better balance and is better technically

and forget all the stats and numbers - just as a football fan watching football, you can see he's a better player

i like nunez and he gives 100% - more than a lot of other players - but he's either brilliant or a car crash
 

[diegoLFC7]

A lot of people posting on here as if they have ever kicked a football. His price tag is the only reason people are concerned with Nunez. Has Nunez actually had a bad season? Hes scored 15 goals in his first full season in a tough more physical league. The leagues contrast in physicality, where Nunez was able to flourish due to his size. Hes struggled in the premier league but he has shown glimpses of being a monster of a player. Scored on his debut in a final against City (albeit being the charity shield), scored a worldie against Real Madrid in knockout football, and scored a brace against Man United. Sure you can say hes been underwhelming but the amount of posters on here being clouded by modern day football transfer values and equating that to a players ability is mind boggling.

[JackWard33]

mate - tubby's already answered it - diaz has more natural skill, better balance and is better technically

and forget all the stats and numbers - just as a football fan watching football, you can see he's a better player

i like nunez and he gives 100% - more than a lot of other players - but he's either brilliant or a car crash
 

What do you mean forget all the stats and numbers…. You mean like goals and assists or what?
Top level football isn’t a technique contest it’s an outputs contest

[tubby]

A lot of people posting on here as if they have ever kicked a football. His price tag is the only reason people are concerned with Nunez. Has Nunez actually had a bad season? Hes scored 15 goals in his first full season in a tough more physical league. The leagues contrast in physicality, where Nunez was able to flourish due to his size. Hes struggled in the premier league but he has shown glimpses of being a monster of a player. Scored on his debut in a final against City (albeit being the charity shield), scored a worldie against Real Madrid in knockout football, and scored a brace against Man United. Sure you can say hes been underwhelming but the amount of posters on here being clouded by modern day football transfer values and equating that to a players ability is mind boggling.

But that's the point people are making.  The issue is that the club isn't in a position financially to spend £65m on a project player.  Nunez might well come good, I hope he does, but at the moment it's not clear what exactly we bought him for and how we're planning to fit him in.  And that's a lot of money to spend on a player that our coaches and manager can't find an obvious spot for.

[liverbloke]

What do you mean forget all the stats and numbers…. You mean like goals and assists or what?
Top level football isn’t a technique contest it’s an outputs contest

you're misunderstanding what i'm saying

i've played football all my life and at a lower league level too for a while, and you know a good player when you see one -  and of course when you play with one which many posters on here wouldn't have done and only judge by stats and match of the day (not saying that's you btw)

of course the stats are important but - as i've said - you know a good player when you see one and diaz is a much better player than nunez

that is the discussion here - who is the better player and it's diaz by a mile

[liverbloke]

...and to add...

for me, if diaz and nunez turned up for a game of football and i had to choose one - it would be diaz without a doubt

that's my own point of view - nowt else

[Knight]

There were managers, scouts and money men saying this exact thing for years and years. Then Liverpool (the very club you support!) and some others clubs made data key to their decision making in terms of recruitment, even down to bringing in Klopp in the first place, and we won everything there is to win and competed with a financially doped City. Turns out, ‘knowing a good player when you see one’ isn’t really that effective compared to ‘knowing a good player when you see one’ combined with rigorous data analysis.

[JackWard33]

you're misunderstanding what i'm saying

i've played football all my life and at a lower league level too for a while, and you know a good player when you see one -  and of course when you play with one which many posters on here wouldn't have done and only judge by stats and match of the day (not saying that's you btw)

of course the stats are important but - as i've said - you know a good player when you see one and diaz is a much better player than nunez

that is the discussion here - who is the better player and it's diaz by a mile

It’s a futile discussion because they’re quite obviously better at different things
You said you’d pick diaz ahead of Nunez because he’s a better footballer … he’s clearly not better at some things, some quite important things like scoring goals
So it depends what role you’re picking them for

[diegoLFC7]

But that's the point people are making.  The issue is that the club isn't in a position financially to spend £65m on a project player.  Nunez might well come good, I hope he does, but at the moment it's not clear what exactly we bought him for and how we're planning to fit him in.  And that's a lot of money to spend on a player that our coaches and manager can't find an obvious spot for.

Its just unjust criticism that hes receiving. Every decent player now a days goes for a minimum of 50 million quid. People are reacting to Nunez season as if we would have won the league if he had scored 10 more goals. If Nunez scored 5 more goals this season (which wouldnt have been impossible had he started the last couple of games) then nobody would be talking about Nunez "coming good". The fact of the matter is that Nunez was so heavily and unfairly compared to Haaland at the start of the season that this criticism was always going to come if Nunez didnt produce video game stats.

No one would be talking about Nunez if our season wasnt as bad. There always needs to be a scapegoat and unfortunately Darwin bit the bullet this time. The fact of the matter is that the midfield and defense let the club down this season not our forwards.

Ridiculous price tags in football are the new norm. Balotelli would be worth 70 million and Rickie Lambert would be worth around 30-40 million. Its just a fact. No player in world football is worth anywhere close to 100 million, too many variables that can cause the player to be a liability for the club.

Nunez provides a physical presence, tremendous work rate off the ball, can link up play and is vital for the team. Even if hes not scoring hes creating uneasy situations, and putting the ball in dangerous spots.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

So far , Nunez has been a poor signing . You wonder how we might have done with a one or two midfield signings instead .

His ceiling is very high though . Let’s see how he starts next season as it will be a crucial one for him .

Spoken like somebody who hasn't a clue so just parrots what he reads on twatter.

[liverbloke]

There were managers, scouts and money men saying this exact thing for years and years. Then Liverpool (the very club you support!) and some others clubs made data key to their decision making in terms of recruitment, even down to bringing in Klopp in the first place, and we won everything there is to win and competed with a financially doped City. Turns out, ‘knowing a good player when you see one’ isn’t really that effective compared to ‘knowing a good player when you see one’ combined with rigorous data analysis.

when we won everything if you remember

listen, stats do count but if you're telling me that if salah had a poor season and some wolverhampton striker had a blinder then he would automatically be a better player than mo because the stats say so?

[Schmidt]

when we won everything if you remember

listen, stats do count but if you're telling me that if salah had a poor season and some wolverhampton striker had a blinder then he would automatically be a better player than mo because the stats say so?

No because underlying stats tend to be consistent regardless of whether a player is having a poor patch or not, and stats are typically looked at across multiple seasons not just one.

Stats aren't the be all and end all, but disregarding them is silly when the best run clubs are all using them.

[diegoLFC7]

when we won everything if you remember

listen, stats do count but if you're telling me that if salah had a poor season and some wolverhampton striker had a blinder then he would automatically be a better player than mo because the stats say so?

Thats why when comparing players its best to use their best and worst season and using the average.

[Schmidt]

I'm probably wrong on this but I'm not sure Gakpo being first choice next season is a foregone conclusion. Our midfield desperately needed help last season and Gakpo was seemingly the best placed to do that out of the two. If we adequately strengthen the midfield and Nunez improves his pressing from the front a little I can see his ridiculous attacking numbers getting him in the team.

[liverbloke]

No because underlying stats tend to be consistent regardless of whether a player is having a poor patch or not, and stats are typically looked at across multiple seasons not just one.

Stats aren't the be all and end all, but disregarding them is silly when the best run clubs are all using them.

no one is saying don't use them

but some people think that professional football management is akin to fifa soccer

imagine this - our club no longer has a manager because it is totally stat oriented so we just buy and sell due to the stats

can't see anything going wrong with that

[Schmidt]

no one is saying don't use them

but some people think that professional football management is akin to fifa soccer

imagine this - our club no longer has a manager because it is totally stat oriented so we just buy and sell due to the stats

can't see anything going wrong with that

Nobody is suggesting anything like that though, stats are just a good additional piece of information to use alongside watching the player. When talking about transfers they tend to become the main focus but that's because most of us can't just go away and watch 10 full matches every time we're linked to a player.

The eye test alone has people raving about Saint-Maximin but stats help tell a different, more accurate story that you wouldn't necessarily get without watching a lot of matches. One great thing about stats is you can use them to eliminate a lot of potential targets quickly, allowing for more time to be spent watching the players who have good underlying numbers.

[liverbloke]

Nobody is suggesting anything like that though, stats are just a good additional piece of information to use alongside watching the player. When talking about transfers they tend to become the main focus but that's because most of us can't just go away and watch 10 full matches every time we're linked to a player.

The eye test alone has people raving about Saint-Maximin but stats help tell a different, more accurate story that you wouldn't necessarily get without watching a lot of matches. One great thing about stats is you can use them to eliminate a lot of potential targets quickly, allowing for more time to be spent watching the players who have good underlying numbers.

so yes stats definitely are important - but so is human involvement and therefore judgement of scouts etc

they can tell if a player is good and if the stats are good too then it's a win win for everyone

see - we can agree

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I think he's a great player.

Looking forward to him settling into the team next season.

He's really impressed me. Amazes me that people seem to be surprised sometimes when some players take a little bit of time to bed in. I suppose it's this dickhead 'NOW!! NOW!! NOW!! NOW!! NOW!!" shithouse culture we live in now.

[Coolie High]

I think what started this discussion of was the poster saying Nunez first 6 months was better than Diaz first 6 months, it obviously wasn’t.

Nunez  should be a much better player next season though, he showed enough signs to help alleviate some of our initial doubts.

[Oldmanmick]

I think he's a great player.

Looking forward to him settling into the team next season.

He's really impressed me. Amazes me that people seem to be surprised sometimes when some players take a little bit of time to bed in. I suppose it's this dickhead 'NOW!! NOW!! NOW!! NOW!! NOW!!" shithouse culture we live in now.

It's ridiculous to write off any player in our squad based on last season's overall performances, especially one who's only just come in to the team. An aging midfield that had run out of steam, plus long term injuries to 2 of our key strikers, were the key reasons why we didn't compete as well as we'd have liked. It's plain to see that Nunez has the quality that will strike terror into opposition defences. Hopefully, with a solid, reliable, midfield behind him, we'll see the beast in him come to the fore next season.

[Red Beret]

Any player who doesn't immediately make a Salah or Suarez-level impact on the team is immediately written off, especially if they cost a lot.

At some point someone will be complaining he's the new Balotelli.

[arfy05]

We have been spoiled with attackers where Mane, Salah, Diaz and Jota in particular all hit the ground running from day one and just became top level accomplished attackers. So now getting a guy who isn’t as polished we end up picking fault. He did well considering the level of the team pre-March. I think working with him tactically, having a fixed system and him acclimatising better (language, team movements, understanding Trent and Robbo, etc) will turn him into a menace. Right now #9’s are coming back into fashion and there’s not many of them around. Nunez could be one of the best.

[Shankly998]

Although he tapered off at the end he came into a very dysfunctional team this season and looked by far our most threatening player at times this season. With a proper midfield behind him excited to see what he can do next season. He won't be as good as Haaland sure but he can be an excellent player for us just needs to calm down a bit in front of goal and rewards will come.

[thaddeus]

Although he tapered off at the end he came into a very dysfunctional team this season and looked by far our most threatening player at times this season. With a proper midfield behind him excited to see what he can do next season. He won't be as good as Haaland sure but he can be an excellent player for us just needs to calm down a bit in front of goal and rewards will come.

The Haaland comparisons certainly do him no favours.  Haaland is the best penalty area striker in the world right now and, for me, the best in England since Shearer.  He's also playing in the most dominant side the Premier League has ever seen.

I think Darwin would have made much more of an impact in the FA Cup final though.  He would have stretched the Man U defence a lot more and possibly made or scored a goal from not a lot.  As it happened Man City won anyway with two long rangers from a midfielder so Haaland escaped any scrutiny.  Had they lost though I don't think the analysts would have been very generous when it came to assessing Haaland's (lack of) impact on the game. 

[groove]

Nobody is suggesting anything like that though, stats are just a good additional piece of information to use alongside watching the player. When talking about transfers they tend to become the main focus but that's because most of us can't just go away and watch 10 full matches every time we're linked to a player.

The eye test alone has people raving about Saint-Maximin but stats help tell a different, more accurate story that you wouldn't necessarily get without watching a lot of matches. One great thing about stats is you can use them to eliminate a lot of potential targets quickly, allowing for more time to be spent watching the players who have good underlying numbers.

I don't think this is true anymore. A top-level football data analyst working for us or Brighton, say, could way more accurately rank ten random PL players (that they had enough data on) vs any pro scout or coach who was purely using their eye, no matter how many games they watched. The person using their eye wouldn't be able to separate their biases, better their memory or remove all purely aesthetic qualities from the effective. I think once you accept that then it's much easier to see why Brighton, Brentford and us have been able to punch above our weight relative to money spent. Brighton and Brentford especially are doing things we haven't seen before. They have a net spend of zero between them over the last 5 years and have the two lowest wage bills in the league, purely because they keep getting the edge in transfer deals because they can way more accurately value players than the football people can.

[lgvkarlos]

We have been spoiled with attackers where Mane, Salah, Diaz and Jota in particular all hit the ground running from day one and just became top level accomplished attackers. So now getting a guy who isn’t as polished we end up picking fault. He did well considering the level of the team pre-March. I think working with him tactically, having a fixed system and him acclimatising better (language, team movements, understanding Trent and Robbo, etc) will turn him into a menace. Right now #9’s are coming back into fashion and there’s not many of them around. Nunez could be one of the best.

Yep, we saw glimpses of his potential.
As with Trent , every time something goes wrong the commentators jump all over it. (this season he wasn't his best but the previous ones it was ludicrous)

Have absolutely no worries about him being a star for us.

[Fromola]

What matters is what Klopp thinks. He's got to be the player Klopp wants him to be or he won't succeed or won't get a regular start.

Gakpo/Firmino stylistically is more what he wants out of his centre forward.

As good a player as Nunez is last summer was beset by fuzzy thinking.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

What matters is what Klopp thinks. He's got to be the player Klopp wants him to be or he won't succeed or won't get a regular start.

Gakpo/Firmino stylistically is more what he wants out of his centre forward.

As good a player as Nunez is last summer was beset by fuzzy thinking.

[afc tukrish]

Thought the same thing, Klopp played with a very mobile "true" 9 in Lewa...