Author Topic: The Anfield Choo-Choo Thread  (Read 3937 times)

Offline Cafe De Paris

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
  • Up the Red Men
The Anfield Choo-Choo Thread
« on: October 19, 2021, 11:49:15 pm »
That is one massive issue that needs to change. The public transport up to or at least near the ground on a match day. I agree that the midweek games are horrendous if you want to take public transport.. most end up getting a taxi. If you go around most big european city grounds they have trams, buses, trains sorted. Then again the Liverpool city council are fkn useless and incompetent for almost anything in the city so I don’t expect any changes..
« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 08:32:42 am by Alan_X »
LFC a bastion of invincibility.

Offline Fromola

  • Lomola... “The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the King!...” Places stock in the wrong opinions. Miserable F*cker! Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,245
  • Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2021, 04:27:18 pm »
That is one massive issue that needs to change. The public transport up to or at least near the ground on a match day. I agree that the midweek games are horrendous if you want to take public transport.. most end up getting a taxi. If you go around most big european city grounds they have trams, buses, trains sorted. Then again the Liverpool city council are fkn useless and incompetent for almost anything in the city so I don’t expect any changes..

They should run a fleet of shuttle buses on matchdays. Do a deal with Arriva or Stagecoach and get lots of shuttle buses from Liverpool One/Queens Square in the hours before kick off and an hour or two after.

Ideally even get a bus lane in for matchdays. City do this at the Etihad despite all their complaints about the traffic, they have a fleet of buses running back into town after the game and their own tram stop.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Online So... Howard Phillips

  • Penile Toupé Extender
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,213
  • All I want for Christmas is a half and half scarf
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2021, 04:31:43 pm »
That is one massive issue that needs to change. The public transport up to or at least near the ground on a match day. I agree that the midweek games are horrendous if you want to take public transport.. most end up getting a taxi. If you go around most big european city grounds they have trams, buses, trains sorted. Then again the Liverpool city council are fkn useless and incompetent for almost anything in the city so I don’t expect any changes..

Don't mention transport to the Council or they'll start their usual interminable roadworks probably on Walton Breckside Road.

Offline Billy Elliot

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,651
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2021, 09:14:55 pm »
People talking about the changes for transport had me thinking a bit. I remember the walk up from the Scottie Road area as a kid,and it seemed like thousands. Now, when walking from Lime Street, it's a few hundred. We once had 54,000 regularly and half would walk it (some were still leaving bikes in the houses backing onto the jigger). To have 60-70k, most from far and wide (Skem, Kirkby, etc  ;D)) there must be a lot of changes needed in the transport network.

What happened to the idea of re-opening the Canada Dock overhead? Is that off the cards?

I think the whole of North Liverpool is pretty shit when it comes to be linked to the City Centre. Wouldn't there be other benefits, e.g. blues in North Liverpool getting to Bramley Dock, work commutes for North Liverpool, etc.

Or was that idea shelved?
With me 3 star jumper half way up me back!

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 42,034
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2021, 09:31:16 pm »
People talking about the changes for transport had me thinking a bit. I remember the walk up from the Scottie Road area as a kid,and it seemed like thousands. Now, when walking from Lime Street, it's a few hundred. We once had 54,000 regularly and half would walk it (some were still leaving bikes in the houses backing onto the jigger). To have 60-70k, most from far and wide (Skem, Kirkby, etc  ;D)) there must be a lot of changes needed in the transport network.

What happened to the idea of re-opening the Canada Dock overhead? Is that off the cards?

I think the whole of North Liverpool is pretty shit when it comes to be linked to the City Centre. Wouldn't there be other benefits, e.g. blues in North Liverpool getting to Bramley Dock, work commutes for North Liverpool, etc.

Or was that idea shelved?

I don't know much about the rail link concepts.  I seem to recall, either during the proposed Stanley Park move or shortly after FSG taking over, that serious expansion beyond 60k would require the club to put in a rail link.  Think the council were adamant on it.

Just playing with ideas, you could conceivably put some stations along the freight line, but the closest it gets to Anfield is about 800m in a straight line across Stanley park. That's potentially a lot of footfall marching through the park.

Then there's the question of who's responsible for the trains?  Merseyrail only runs electrical units, so does the line become electrified?  If so, would it be third rail or overhead lines, and would LFC have to foot the bill?  Might be worth holding onto some of the old trains for the route, but more likely it would be diesel engines.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Online CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,345
  • YNWA
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2021, 09:36:21 pm »
I don't know much about the rail link concepts.  I seem to recall, either during the proposed Stanley Park move or shortly after FSG taking over, that serious expansion beyond 60k would require the club to put in a rail link.  Think the council were adamant on it.

Just playing with ideas, you could conceivably put some stations along the freight line, but the closest it gets to Anfield is about 800m in a straight line across Stanley park. That's potentially a lot of footfall marching through the park.

Then there's the question of who's responsible for the trains?  Merseyrail only runs electrical units, so does the line become electrified?  If so, would it be third rail or overhead lines, and would LFC have to foot the bill?  Might be worth holding onto some of the old trains for the route, but more likely it would be diesel engines.

It's about 1.1k from the nearest spot which is ideal (down Utting Avenue where the Clarence Pub used to be). That's been knocked down and there is a bit area there now right on the line.

Problem is I believe it needs electrifying so quite a lot of work, and for it to be viable it needs more than just the one station so it can be used for the wider area on non-matchdays.

Think Alan or Peter did a rough costing a while back and it wasn't cheap.

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 42,034
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2021, 09:47:25 pm »
It's about 1.1k from the nearest spot which is ideal (down Utting Avenue where the Clarence Pub used to be). That's been knocked down and there is a bit area there now right on the line.

Problem is I believe it needs electrifying so quite a lot of work, and for it to be viable it needs more than just the one station so it can be used for the wider area on non-matchdays.

Think Alan or Peter did a rough costing a while back and it wasn't cheap.

Yeah. I was just looking at the line for sites for potential stations. If costs, building sites and construction logistics were not an issue, I'd suggest a new station on Tunnel Road, close to Edge Lane (actually near the site of the original Edge Lane station), and building by the road/rail intersections at Edge Lane, Prescot Road, West Derby Road, Townsend Lane and Utting Avenue, along with maybe new low level stations at Kirkdale and Bank Hall. I guess you could throw in Walton Lane and County Road as potential sites too.

The Line would probably run from Bank Hall to Tunnel Road on match days, and it would likely need a fairly high frequency of trains - six car units every 10 minutes if you're going to handle tens of thousands of supporters dispersing across the city.

But I've no idea how practical it would be to do any of that.  Adding platforms to rail bridges is likely very difficult, but equally not all those stations might be needed. I'm just spitballing.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 09:50:08 pm by Red Berry »
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Online CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,345
  • YNWA
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2021, 09:57:28 pm »
Most of them wouldn't need to be much more than a platform either side, prob only the ones near the ground which might need to be able to handle crowds.

Not sure if it would be cheaper but trams (similar to Manchester met line) would work too.

Offline Billy Elliot

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,651
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2021, 10:43:40 pm »
If I remember correctly, it was Merseytravel who were talking about re-opening the Canada Dock overhead for passenger travel - still used for freight I think. Of course, it couldn't just be for Anfield, it'd have to benefit the whole of North Liverpool. But North Liverpool, as a whole, is pretty shit when you compare the infrastructure of a lot of other cities.

I just don't know what happened with the talks, they just suddenly stopped so I assume it didn't makes sense. There was a station once next to Goodison, talking the 1940s, like.
With me 3 star jumper half way up me back!

Online So... Howard Phillips

  • Penile Toupé Extender
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,213
  • All I want for Christmas is a half and half scarf
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2021, 10:46:33 pm »
If I remember correctly, it was Merseytravel who were talking about re-opening the Canada Dock overhead for passenger travel - still used for freight I think. Of course, it couldn't just be for Anfield, it'd have to benefit the whole of North Liverpool. But North Liverpool, as a whole, is pretty shit when you compare the infrastructure of a lot of other cities.

I just don't know what happened with the talks, they just suddenly stopped so I assume it didn't makes sense. There was a station once next to Goodison, talking the 1940s, like.

Yet another first!

Offline Billy Elliot

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,651
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2021, 11:04:07 pm »
Yet another first!

Got a feeling the station was called Anfield, as well. Their supporters probably had it closed down.
With me 3 star jumper half way up me back!

Offline Original

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,830
  • Sound
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2021, 12:32:49 am »
Don't think electrification would be an issue to a certain extent as the new 777 units are being tested with battery traction

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 50,758
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2021, 08:43:47 am »
It's about 1.1k from the nearest spot which is ideal (down Utting Avenue where the Clarence Pub used to be). That's been knocked down and there is a bit area there now right on the line.

Problem is I believe it needs electrifying so quite a lot of work, and for it to be viable it needs more than just the one station so it can be used for the wider area on non-matchdays.

Think Alan or Peter did a rough costing a while back and it wasn't cheap.

I didn't do a costing but the figures are out there somewhere. Would a station there significantly closer than Sandhills? It would be an easier walk along Uttings Ave - the walk to Sandhills isn't really signposted - but Sandhills is already there and goes straight into the City  Centre.

I don't have a car any more so I usually get a cab or bus up to the ground and either walk back all the way, walk down and grab a cab halfway or walk to Sandhills. If there's no queue I'll sometimes get the Soccer Bus.

I'm not sure I would walk all the way along Uttings Ave to queue for a train that loops around North Liverpool before going past Sandhills anyway.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Al 666

  • "I haven't got a clue." 23/03/2020......Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,800
  • JFT 97
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2021, 01:21:11 pm »
I didn't do a costing but the figures are out there somewhere. Would a station there significantly closer than Sandhills? It would be an easier walk along Uttings Ave - the walk to Sandhills isn't really signposted - but Sandhills is already there and goes straight into the City  Centre.

I don't have a car any more so I usually get a cab or bus up to the ground and either walk back all the way, walk down and grab a cab halfway or walk to Sandhills. If there's no queue I'll sometimes get the Soccer Bus.

I'm not sure I would walk all the way along Uttings Ave to queue for a train that loops around North Liverpool before going past Sandhills anyway.

That's the issue you are heading in the wrong direction. If you decide to walk towards Sandhills you have lots of options. You have the chance of getting taxis, buses or in the worst-case scenario walking in to Town. If they built a Station on the corner of Cherry Lane and Utting Ave then you are banking on getting on a train.

It is a single gauge loop line so any problem on the loop from Edge Hill to Sandhills basically shuts down the whole line. That would basically leave you stranded because the majority of taxis would be going from the ground to the town centre and back.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Online CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,345
  • YNWA
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2021, 01:23:31 pm »
That's the issue you are heading in the wrong direction. If you decide to walk towards Sandhills you have lots of options. You have the chance of getting taxis, buses or in the worst-case scenario walking in to Town. If they built a Station on the corner of Cherry Lane and Utting Ave then you are banking on getting on a train.

It is a single gauge loop line so any problem on the loop from Edge Hill to Sandhills basically shuts down the whole line. That would basically leave you stranded because the majority of taxis would be going from the ground to the town centre and back.

It's a double track isn't it save for a section at the end where it goes into the docks.

Plus you get loads of taxi's down Utting Avenue, and if there were more walking down there then you'd attract more.

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 50,758
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2021, 01:28:52 pm »
It’s roughly half the distance (0.7 compared to approx 1.4 miles).

I just measured it on Google Earth and it's 0.85m compared to 1.2m.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Al 666

  • "I haven't got a clue." 23/03/2020......Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,800
  • JFT 97
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2021, 02:17:25 pm »
It's a double track isn't it save for a section at the end where it goes into the docks.

Plus you get loads of taxi's down Utting Avenue, and if there were more walking down there then you'd attract more.

Sorry I should have been clearer it is a single gauge in both directions. Usually you have stretches of track that allow slower trains to stop and allow faster trains past. The Canada Dock Branch line is a loop that has a huge number of freight trains on it. Something that would increase if the line was electrified. The freight trains are incredibly long and it would be a logistical nightmare to try and add passenger services into the mix.

The people who generally walk down Utting Avenue though are people looking to head out that way. That is how you clear congestion around the ground. People walking in the direction they want to go. That makes the taxi journey shorter and means that the taxi can get back quicker to take more passengers away from the ground. You also have the problem that the Police control the traffic lights and prioritise traffic heading away from the ground.

The last thing you need from a congestion point of view is people heading back towards the ground from Utting ave.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 42,034
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2021, 02:30:20 pm »
Yeah, it's important to remember that the freight line is pretty congested as it is. I recall talk that it's already considered insufficient. There were discussions about trying to expand the rail links to better handle the cargo, especially with the predicted increase of freight from Liverpool 2.

It's a big expense to upgrade the line for passengers when it could likely only be used for a few hours on match days. You can suspend freight services for three or four hours every other week, but i don't see how you could use the line full time without an even more expensive overhaul of the infrastructure; and that would be on merseyrail rather than the club.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline Billy Elliot

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,651
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2021, 08:41:51 pm »
Loop line 1950. I think Walton & Anfield was the station next to Goodison
With me 3 star jumper half way up me back!

Offline Billy Elliot

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,651
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2021, 08:53:16 pm »
Was it ever electric? I remember at the end of my Gran's street in Bootle, there was a disused track at the top of a grass bank. My Mum used to always call it the overhead, which makes me think it must have been electric.

It seems this would have been the same line that I posted above. I remember my Mum telling me it was used by the dockers to get to work. Wasn't a third line that ran across the back of Bootle were there?
With me 3 star jumper half way up me back!

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 42,034
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2021, 10:15:58 pm »
Was it ever electric? I remember at the end of my Gran's street in Bootle, there was a disused track at the top of a grass bank. My Mum used to always call it the overhead, which makes me think it must have been electric.

It seems this would have been the same line that I posted above. I remember my Mum telling me it was used by the dockers to get to work. Wasn't a third line that ran across the back of Bootle were there?

Sure you're not confusing it with the Overhead Railway?  That was often called the Docker's Umbrella and literally ran along the dock walls. that was certainly electric.

The freight line intersects the Northern Line between Bank Hall and Bootle Oriel Road. I've never seen any indication that it's ever been electric. No suggestion of a third rail or overhead lines.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 42,034
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2021, 10:20:59 pm »
I distinctly remember this being the case for H&G's "futuristic" monstrosity. If I remember correctly, the initial plans were for a stadium capacity of around 60k but the stadium would be sufficiently large enough for around 71k.  If you look at the first pics of the proposed design, one end of the stadium had a massive TV screen because most of that end wouldn't be occupied by spectators. The 71k capacity would only be permitted if transport links were improved and that included a rail line.


Yeah, that's probably it.  So it's likely another reason why FSG won't be in a hurry to expand Anfield any further.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Online CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,345
  • YNWA
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2021, 08:47:03 am »
We’re already going beyond the “magic” figure of 61k which was apparently the limit before trains were said to be needed. I see no reason why Anfield couldn’t be increased further without trains subject to other transport ideas being implemented.

Online andy07

  • Shat himself
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,239
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2021, 10:30:37 pm »
If we play 27 home games each season and the use of any transport infrastructure was 8 hours on match days then we are looking at the facilities being used around 2.5% of the time.  Unless The Club pays for any improvements then a business case involving the wider community, or the line to the docks would gave to be put forward. 
We are Loyal Supporters

Offline Peter McGurk

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,702
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2021, 10:14:09 pm »
Loop line 1950. I think Walton & Anfield was the station next to Goodison



Back in the day...


"Merseytravel have been looking at re-opening the Canada Dock Branch Line for a decade or more. They tried to get the club interested to support the application for a new stadium. The club were invited on a little jolly to 'test out' the line. Investigations were made and reports written. All clearly making it a nonsense for a stadium as the numbers don't stack...

1. The line is not electrified
2. It has no stations
3. it has no passenger regulated controls or signalling
4. it does not connect to the city at the Northern end (it goes to the docks on a different level)
5. It doesn't connect to the South of the city at the other end (it goes to Huyton / Manchester)
6. It doesn't connect to the West Coast Main Line
7. It has slow-moving goods traffic on it, taking away capacity
8. The port has invested in the connection to Manchester to improve Goods connection - not conflicting passenger traffic. This investment gives the port priority.

All of those engineering, technical and capacity issues need to be addressed to make it a viable line for passenger transport. To make it a viable line, it would need enough passengers to cover the cost. To do that the maximum guideline walking distance to keep people out of their cars is 400m. So to get the right numbers of people on the line, there would need to be six or seven stations. To drive the kind of traffic required would require a significant pick up of employment in the areas served with a need to get to work in town....

...Maybe all will come to pass but to cover the hundreds of millions of investment required would require a serious uplift in the City's economy. There is no comfort in a couple of thousand people popping in from the Mosscroft for each game even if you could persuade them to stay out of their cars long enough to walk to Huyton Station."



https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=309210.msg13059050#msg13059050

I can't remember the figures but it's about £10m for a single station so it's upwards of £100m all up.

Look, I'm all in favour of anything is possible (and I seem to recall a renewed connection at Edge Hill even if only to avoid a turn around). It or Trams would be great for the city and especially the north end but a football club can't afford that kind of investment or need it. All the studies council have done around the stadium show there's a much, much more cost effective way that doesn't have football crowds traipsing through a cemetery (not me: a quote from a transport specialist) - buses.

BTW the way, Goodison is just about equidistant between Spellow and Anfield (& Walton) Stations:

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/spellow/
« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 10:17:44 am by Peter McGurk »

Offline Al 666

  • "I haven't got a clue." 23/03/2020......Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,800
  • JFT 97
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2021, 02:14:23 am »
The Canada Branch line has always connected to the West Coast Main line. In 2008 they reopened the Olive Mount Chord which has doubled the throughput to the West Coast Main Line. There are also plans to electrify the line.

The issue is that the Stadium simply doesn't justify the required changes.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Online CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,345
  • YNWA
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2021, 09:13:37 am »
Also not sure why people would walk through the cemetery. It doesn’t provide a shorter route to where you’d likely put a station no matter which way you come out the ground.

Offline Uncle Ronnie

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,107
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2021, 03:50:23 pm »
Also not sure why people would walk through the cemetery.

Would really give credence to the blues “Devil’s club” shouts.

Offline Al 666

  • "I haven't got a clue." 23/03/2020......Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,800
  • JFT 97
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2021, 05:44:12 pm »
Also not sure why people would walk through the cemetery. It doesn’t provide a shorter route to where you’d likely put a station no matter which way you come out the ground.

I would imagine the corner of Walton Lane and Cherry Lane would be a prime location for a Station. If you wanted to beat the queues at a station at Utting Ave for trains heading South then it would make sense to cut through Stanley Park and the Cemetery.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Peter McGurk

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,702
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2021, 07:14:39 pm »
The Canada Branch line has always connected to the West Coast Main line. In 2008 they reopened the Olive Mount Chord which has doubled the throughput to the West Coast Main Line. There are also plans to electrify the line.

The issue is that the Stadium simply doesn't justify the required changes.

If you look at the date of the post, you'll see it was 2014 and as I said, I do seem to recall a reconnection at the southern end since - that'll be the Olive Mount Chord. Cost - going on for £8m for 300m for freight only. Go figure.

There are no committed plans to electrify the Canada Dock Branch Line as far as I know - perhaps you can enlighten us as to the specifics (including funding commitments).

The overwhelming case is against a stadium justifying the expense, no matter how hard you cherry pick the pieces that seem to suit.


Also not sure why people would walk through the cemetery. It doesn’t provide a shorter route to where you’d likely put a station no matter which way you come out the ground.

The nearest disused station site is Walton & Anfield. A direct line from there to the stadium is through the cemetery. The comment was from a railway specialist commissioned to look into it. The conclusion was that buses are by far the most cost effective option.

The point is these things have been considered in great detail and nothing has come of it to date. A colleague and I met with Liam Robinson (Merseytravel) and he was quite keen on the idea and commissioned studies to look into it but at the time, he wasn't even thinking about the stadium.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 10:19:02 am by Peter McGurk »

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 82,491
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Al 666

  • "I haven't got a clue." 23/03/2020......Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,800
  • JFT 97
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2021, 10:33:20 am »
If you look at the date of the post, you'll see it was 2014 and as I said, I do seem to recall a reconnection at the southern end since - that'll be the Olive Mount Chord. Cost - going on for £8m for 300m for freight only. Go figure.

There are no plans to electrify the Canada Dock Branch Line as far as I know - perhaps you can enlighten us as to the specifics (including funding commitments).

The overwhelming case is against a stadium justifying the expense, no matter how hard you cherry pick the pieces that seem to suit.


The nearest disused station site is Walton & Anfield. A direct line from there to the stadium is through the cemetery. The comment was from a railway specialist commissioned to look into it. The conclusion was that buses are by far the most cost effective option.

The point is these things have been considered in great detail and nothing has come of it to date. A colleague and I met with Liam Robinson (Merseytravel) and he was quite keen on the idea and commissioned studies to look into it but at the time, he wasn't even thinking about the stadium.


There have been plans to Electrify the Canada Dock Branch Line dating back to 2009. It has been part of the Government's rail electrification plan since then. Is part of the Liverpool combined Authority plan published in 2017 and is part of the Northern Powerhouse Rail plan.

As for funding, that is up in the air at the moment due to the financial impact of Coronavirus.

The elephant in the room though is that diesel only trains are going to be phased out by 2040. So there will be electric trains running on that line in the next couple of decades anyway. Given the line is only 5 miles long and hybrid battery trains can currently run for 20 miles then it simply isn't an issue.

I agree completely that the Stadium will not justify the expense but given the amount of money that Peel are spending on the northern docks I wouldn't rule it out.

One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Peter McGurk

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,702
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2021, 07:21:09 pm »
There have been plans to Electrify the Canada Dock Branch Line dating back to 2009. It has been part of the Government's rail electrification plan since then. Is part of the Liverpool combined Authority plan published in 2017 and is part of the Northern Powerhouse Rail plan.

As for funding, that is up in the air at the moment due to the financial impact of Coronavirus.

The elephant in the room though is that diesel only trains are going to be phased out by 2040. So there will be electric trains running on that line in the next couple of decades anyway. Given the line is only 5 miles long and hybrid battery trains can currently run for 20 miles then it simply isn't an issue.

I agree completely that the Stadium will not justify the expense but given the amount of money that Peel are spending on the northern docks I wouldn't rule it out.

Supposition, Guesswork and Wish lists. Whatever Yep. You're absolutely right. Spot on. Well Done.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2021, 07:26:46 pm by Peter McGurk »

Offline Al 666

  • "I haven't got a clue." 23/03/2020......Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,800
  • JFT 97
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2021, 12:50:23 am »
Supposition, Guesswork and Wish lists. Whatever Yep. You're absolutely right. Spot on. Well Done.

No Peter, actual documents and strategic plans that are in the public domain.

The hilarious part is you are quoting your own post from 7 years ago and then trying to pass it off as fact.

May I draw your attention to points

5. It doesn't connect to the South of the city at the other end (it goes to Huyton / Manchester)
6. It doesn't connect to the West Coast Main Line

I would love you to explain the above blindingly obvious contradiction.

One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Cafe De Paris

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
  • Up the Red Men
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2021, 12:50:52 am »
Do we think the city council could run a project like building a new station and railway when they can’t fix the fkn potholes on the way to Anfield if you drive from the city centre. Have a look at St George’s plateau and see if you could trust them.
LFC a bastion of invincibility.

Offline Al 666

  • "I haven't got a clue." 23/03/2020......Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,800
  • JFT 97
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2021, 01:12:51 am »
Do we think the city council could run a project like building a new station and railway when they can’t fix the fkn potholes on the way to Anfield if you drive from the city centre. Have a look at St George’s plateau and see if you could trust them.

It wouldn't be the City Council.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Online kopite321

  • Bi-polar skyscraper
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 584
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2021, 04:24:02 am »
I think we need to break out the comments on rail infrastructure; this seems a topic in its own right; it derailed this thread ;-)
During the recording sessions in Los Angeles, Spector held Johnny at gunpoint, forcing him to repeatedly play a riff.

Offline Ghost Town

  • Bands won't play no more. Too much fighting on the dance floor! Probably one of only three people who knows the meaning of "depuratory"......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,438
  • mundus vult decipi
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2021, 04:40:11 am »
I think we need to break out the comments on rail infrastructure; this seems a topic in its own right; it derailed this thread ;-)
Fair points. Definitely needs its own platform for discussion. Someone signal the mods so it can be moved in a permanent way.
"Football is a nice game without you, but with you it’s the best game in the world"
Jurgen Klopp

"Giving absolutely everything doesn't mean you get anything... but it’s the only chance to get something!”
Jurgen Klopp

Offline Peter McGurk

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,702
Re: Re: Anfield Road Extension - Construction Underway
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2021, 07:27:14 am »
No Peter, actual documents and strategic plans that are in the public domain.

The hilarious part is you are quoting your own post from 7 years ago and then trying to pass it off as fact.

May I draw your attention to points

5. It doesn't connect to the South of the city at the other end (it goes to Huyton / Manchester)
6. It doesn't connect to the West Coast Main Line

I would love you to explain the above blindingly obvious contradiction.

I brought up the 7-year old thread to illustrate how stale the debate was. It has been done to death. The costs (and consequences for other users such as the port) are such that no football club could possibly think about it.

But if you want to show me where I’m wrong about how it connects with the south of the city (it doesn’t) or with the WCML (into Lime Street - it doesn’t) or any of the other really good reasons how unlikely it is to happen for passenger transport (however desirable it might be) or how impossible it is for the stadium to pay for it, then maybe best if it could be moved to a separate thread and we can have a nice chat about trains.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 08:02:16 am by Peter McGurk »

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 50,758
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: The Anfield Choo-Choo Thread
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2021, 08:33:05 am »
Split into a new thread.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.