Author Topic: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.  (Read 39163 times)

Offline CraigDS

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #160 on: April 5, 2016, 08:32:37 pm »
Yeah it didn't sound right in my head at all and now i know why!   :butt :puke2

Saw someone of BBC Breakfast saying the only way to stop it is to crack down on all the safe havens so the only places anyone could hide the money are places where no-one would want to keep it for fear of it dissapearing.   Won't hold my breath for this Government to put that into action though.  ::)

That's impossible to do though unless the UK goes invading all these places so they can then govern them.

The only way is to close the loop holes which allows the money to leave the UK without it being found, and then taking action on those who attempt to bypass this.

That way millions of tax havens can exist but it doesn't matter as they can't get the money to them without it being taxed first.

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #161 on: April 5, 2016, 08:38:26 pm »
The only way to close the loop holes is an international agreement with sanctions against any nation that facilitates tax avoidance. The financial sector transcends nations boundaries, and any solution has to too.

All an individual state can do is to make it more difficult and increase the likelihood that perpetrators would be caught.

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #162 on: April 5, 2016, 08:38:50 pm »
Yeah it didn't sound right in my head at all and now i know why!   :butt :puke2

Saw someone of BBC Breakfast saying the only way to stop it is to crack down on all the safe havens so the only places anyone could hide the money are places where no-one would want to keep it for fear of it dissapearing.   Won't hold my breath for this Government to put that into action though.  ::)
To be fair to this (or any!) government,  it's something that has to be done mutlinationaly...

And even then, one country not agreeing to the rules can act as a tax haven for the whole world (and make huge amounts of cash out of it).
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Offline Trada

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #163 on: April 5, 2016, 08:53:19 pm »
Obama talking about USA companies using tax loopholes to pay less tax today.

I wonder if that means USA stuff maybe released soon.
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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #164 on: April 5, 2016, 08:55:22 pm »
The tax system needs to be dragged into the 21st Century, as I've said several times.  Whilst I acknowledge that the richer and high earners should bear a greater responsibility to support those less well off, I have to admit if I was in their position I'd baulk at paying 40% tax on any income over £43k.  Some kind of scale needs to be developed. 

But as has been said, you could tax the super-rich at 1% and they'd still try and find a way to fecking dodge it.  :butt
« Last Edit: April 5, 2016, 09:36:56 pm by Red Beret »
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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #165 on: April 5, 2016, 09:13:19 pm »
The war on drugs led to California installing a "three strikes and your out" policy. If you were convicted three ties then you spent the rest of your days in jail.

Before this was installed millions was spent catching street dealers.

If a similar effort and policy was installed for tax evasion maybe we would see a difference.
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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #166 on: April 5, 2016, 09:16:05 pm »
The war on drugs led to California installing a "three strikes and your out" policy. If you were convicted three ties then you spent the rest of your days in jail.

Before this was installed millions was spent catching street dealers.

If a similar effort and policy was installed for tax evasion maybe we would see a difference.

Problem is this isn't generally tax evasion, it is legal tax avoidance.

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #167 on: April 5, 2016, 09:37:59 pm »
The war on drugs led to California installing a "three strikes and your out" policy. If you were convicted three ties then you spent the rest of your days in jail.

Before this was installed millions was spent catching street dealers.

If a similar effort and policy was installed for tax evasion maybe we would see a difference.

Tut.  Can't be jailing all those "wealth creators" now, can we?  ::)
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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #168 on: April 5, 2016, 10:14:06 pm »
The world is full of self indulgent, obnoxious, greedy, selfish wankers, shocker.



The perceived death of communism has ruined this world. They're all at it, the greedy fucking wankers.


Chops wants the Gulag back.

You're right though. Everyone's at it. Including the Communist parties of China and North Korea.  Not to mention Hugo Chavez's boys.
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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #169 on: April 5, 2016, 11:21:30 pm »
WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 57m57 minutes ago
The US OCCRP can do good work, but for the US govt to directly fund the #PanamaPapers attack on Putin seriously undermines its integrity.
304 retweets 199 likes

WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 1h1 hour ago
#PanamaPapers Putin attack was produced by OCCRP which targets Russia & former USSR and was funded by USAID & Soros.

WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 1h1 hour ago
Washington DC based Ford, Soros funded soft-power tax-dodge "ICIJ" has a  WikiLeaks problem #PanamaPapers


And there I was thinking Wikileaks were pro-leaking factual documents no matter the targets...
« Last Edit: April 5, 2016, 11:27:40 pm by cdav »

Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #170 on: April 5, 2016, 11:40:00 pm »


The devil is indeed in the data, but not necessarily on what Wikileaks is claiming is in the data or who is behind the release of the data or their motives for releasing it.

You have to consider that this information seems to also involve major state actors who have enormous credibility at stake.

These people will do anything to ensure their wealth and positions and credibility are preserved.

It is in their interests to ensure that the waters are now muddied.

Have no doubts, they will already have employed briefing and lobbying agencies and bought pressure to bear on compliant media outlets to ensure that subtle and perhaps not so subtle deflection away from those who are guilty now takes place, a blaming of the messenger rather than the of those mentioned in the message.

They can afford it, and afford the best.

If wikileaks is serious, and not a compromised and possibly slanted source with an opaque agenda, let it publish the complete database tonight, unexpurgated, for people to be able to make their own minds up.
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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #171 on: April 5, 2016, 11:54:22 pm »
Good historical and current insight into why there isn't many Americans listed so far:

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/04/the-panama-papers-where-are-the-americans-000083

Offline Trada

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #172 on: April 6, 2016, 03:04:21 am »

LBC Verified account
‏@LBC

Jeremy Corbyn says PM should come clean over family finances after Panama leak. Should Corbyn resign over this call?



 :no :no
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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #173 on: April 6, 2016, 07:34:25 am »
Got a mate here in Belgium,he's also ex RAF who settled here,a few years ago he started to receive a small pension from the UK,

as a good citizen he told the local Tax people about it and was informed it was OK.

Then a couple of years ago they came after him saying it was a mistake and he had to pay,they backdated it as well.

Now the Government are saying they are not sure they can get the money back from the 750 or so Belgians found in the Panama Papers...

Offline Trada

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #174 on: April 6, 2016, 09:36:35 am »
Begs the question what about the past?

Channel 4 News ‏@Channel4News 1m1 minute ago

There are no offshore trusts which will benefit  David Cameron, his wife or children in future - No 10 spokesman.

Thats the 4th statement No 10 has made now.
« Last Edit: April 6, 2016, 09:48:29 am by Trada »
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #175 on: April 6, 2016, 10:00:48 am »
Begs the question what about the past?

Channel 4 News ‏@Channel4News 1m1 minute ago

There are no offshore trusts which will benefit  David Cameron, his wife or children in future - No 10 spokesman.

Thats the 4th statement No 10 has made now.

Presumably, if something did exist which he benefited from and if he repatriated the money then he'd have paid the appropriate tax on it.

Offline Trada

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #176 on: April 6, 2016, 10:14:10 am »
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

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Offline Trada

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #177 on: April 6, 2016, 10:15:34 am »
Presumably, if something did exist which he benefited from and if he repatriated the money then he'd have paid the appropriate tax on it.

I won't believe it until he proves it.
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Offline Trada

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #178 on: April 6, 2016, 10:27:22 am »
Sky news asking George .Osborne if he has any off shore accounts he totally ignored the question and answered something that wasn't asked
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Offline planet-terror

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #179 on: April 6, 2016, 11:09:34 am »
transparency eh
bollocks

Offline saoirse08

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #180 on: April 6, 2016, 11:22:57 am »
I suggest any individual named in these leaked papers receive a jolly stern telling off by HMRC and then asked what  proportion (if any) of their stashed wealth should be paid in tax. If they are still not forthcoming with the readies, then another jolly stern telling off should do the job. Any company trading in the UK named in these papers should also receive a jolly good telling off at the hands of the HMRC and, if that doesn't work, should be compelled to appear in front of a parliamentary select committee to receive another jolly stern telling off, with perhaps a hint of mockery and indignation. Afterwards, they should be politely invited by HMRC to name a figure - presumably plucked from their accounts' anuses - which they are prepared to offer up begrudgingly.

cf. Google et al.

Oh, and David Cameron's personal fortune, and how it was 'earned', is a private matter. Unlike Jimmy Carr's tax avoidance scheme which, as we all know, was morally wrong.
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Offline Armchair expert

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #181 on: April 6, 2016, 11:25:57 am »
Begs the question what about the past?

Channel 4 News ‏@Channel4News 1m1 minute ago

There are no offshore trusts which will benefit  David Cameron, his wife or children in future - No 10 spokesman.

Thats the 4th statement No 10 has made now.

The man doth protest too much

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #182 on: April 6, 2016, 12:37:46 pm »
I won't believe it until he proves it.
The man doth protest too much

I guess this is the problem he's now in. Some of his opponents imagine him guilty and want him to prove his innocence. Others believe that in trying to prove his innocence he is necessarily showing his guilt.
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Offline Trada

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #183 on: April 6, 2016, 01:14:38 pm »
Can it be that hard just to say no.


12:52PM
George .Osborne  evades reporter's questions on offshore funds

In an interview with ITV News, George .Osborne, evaded several questions about whether he's personally benefitted from offshore funds.


1:06PM
George .Osborne 'didn't terminate interview'

Treasury sources have made clear that George .Osborne did not terminate the interview. They say that the interviewer simply asked more questions than had initially been agreed and the interview ended.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/06/panama-papers-david-cameron-family-offshore-fund-moved-ireland/
« Last Edit: April 6, 2016, 01:17:51 pm by Trada »
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Offline Wilmo

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #184 on: April 6, 2016, 01:22:36 pm »
I think Labour's response has been good so far, it finally seems like they've found some unity and a strong line of attack.

Good article by McDonnell yesterday in the Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/commentisfree/2016/apr/05/panama-papers-tory-attitudes-john-mcdonnell

Then Jess Phillips - who I've not been much of a fan of so far but this is pretty powerful:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jess-phillips/david-cameron-taxes_b_9622288.html

David Cameron pays his taxes. What does he want, a round of applause? Tory MPs in defence of their premier last night took to Twitter to almost congratulate a man for saying he pays tax. What a guy, what a hero.

Am I missing something? Applauding such mediocrity seems unusual. Are we now to expect celebrations because he can tie his shoe laces or that he can grow hair. He's not a toddler, he's the sodding Prime Minister. Later I shall take to the streets of Yardley and hand out gold star stickers to all the people in the local Tesco, "well done Barbara, lovely tax-paying you did there while buying that curling iron, you really are a very good girl."

So David Cameron's dad didn't pay his fair share of taxes. The sins of Cameron's dad are not his fault. True, but the Government are no strangers to damning the children of people who they think aren't doing their bit for society. Barnardo's, the Child Poverty Action Group and many others have all said that the Conservative Welfare and Work Bill will make poor children poorer. Policies such as only paying tax credits to the first two children in a family directly penalise children for the decisions of their parents. So in Tory Britain poor kids are paying the price for the actions of their parents but David Cameron doesn't have to?

The Tories want taxpayers to hate people on benefits and be annoyed that we are paying for their lifestyle, I think it was IDS referred to as, "a direction which divides society". To use the words of the Prime Minister, 'let me clear': The sins of Daddy Cameron were not illegal but they are utterly disgusting. They are worse than the sins of fathers up and down the country who can't find work, even the most feckless amongst them.

People who don't pay their taxes are robbing from us all. The Camerons may well have forked out for education and health services, but it was my money that trained the doctors, nurses and teachers they used. Without the taxpayer the posh who jump the queue would just be sitting in a rather nicely decorated room without the staff to actually deliver the service. Every time Cameron Snr drove his car on a public highway, every time he could see on the street because of a streetlight, every day when there was a pavement outside his house and a regular bin collection, he took money from you, the nation's honest taxpayers, without seeing fit to put his hand in his pocket. And while the Camerons had a bob or two I doubt very much they funded their own private police force and army. I mean the Eton set are a bit old fashioned but think the acts of livery and maintenance is a step to far even for them. So they got the security we all enjoy but it was you footing the bill, not daddy darling.

What makes it worse is that they got the best of everything while you paid the tab. They reaped the benefits of your hard toil, and because they had money to spare they got the best education, smaller class sizes, better service. Their kids got privilege that you paid for but never benefited from.

So David Cameron doesn't need our praise for paying his tax. He's not a very clever boy, he's a very average boy who used privilege rather than brains to get where he got. Perhaps we could all buy our babies a better life if only we weren't burdened with being decent human beings.

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Offline SwedenRed

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #185 on: April 6, 2016, 02:43:34 pm »
Anyone found with these Accounts in Panama or any Tax haven and who has not declared to the tax man should be prosecuted and locked up. Absolute disgrace this, and Im pleased names have been leaked.

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #186 on: April 6, 2016, 02:45:32 pm »

Then Jess Phillips - who I've not been much of a fan of so far but this is pretty powerful:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jess-phillips/david-cameron-taxes_b_9622288.html


Jess Phillips is fantastic. A genuine original. Hope she leads the Labour party one day soon.
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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #187 on: April 6, 2016, 04:03:56 pm »
Jess Phillips is fantastic. A genuine original. Hope she leads the Labour party one day soon.

 :-X
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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #188 on: April 6, 2016, 04:21:29 pm »
Chops wants the Gulag back.

You're right though. Everyone's at it. Including the Communist parties of China and North Korea.  Not to mention Hugo Chavez's boys.

 And African socialists.
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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #190 on: April 6, 2016, 06:44:43 pm »
Cameron wakes up to this every morning


Offline Trada

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #191 on: April 6, 2016, 07:11:36 pm »
C4 news just doing a story about Camerons dad and another scheme he also had in Jersey.

And No 10 released another statement about that.

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Offline Red Beret

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #192 on: April 6, 2016, 09:06:36 pm »
There's a petition by 38 degrees demanding that the PM close the British Virgin Islands tax loophole.  I'd give a link but I suspect my email is specific to me.  You have nothing to lose by digging it out and signing it though.  It's five minutes' work peeps.
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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #193 on: April 6, 2016, 10:34:06 pm »
There's a petition by 38 degrees demanding that the PM close the British Virgin Islands tax loophole.  I'd give a link but I suspect my email is specific to me.  You have nothing to lose by digging it out and signing it though.  It's five minutes' work peeps.

So they can all just shift it to the next tax haven, only this time one we don't have any influence over?

It's a pointless act.

There needs to be simplification of the tax laws, loop holes closed to make it a lot harder (and easier to see/trace) money leaving the country prior to paying the appropriate tax, and it needs to be tackled multi-nationally.

Offline TravisBickle

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #194 on: April 7, 2016, 09:45:54 am »
The FT is reporting today that in 2013 Cameron personally intervened to weaken an EU drive to reveal the beneficiaries of trusts.

 His line of "I have nothing more to say" suggests he has a fuck of a lot more to hide. I know that when the line of "this won't go away" gets trotted out the issue nearly always goes away relatively quickly, but this mustn't be allowed to be kicked into the long grass.

 This isn't really about tax avoidance. It's about theft and corruption.
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Offline cloggypop

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #195 on: April 7, 2016, 12:17:27 pm »

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #196 on: April 7, 2016, 12:29:55 pm »
Cameron wakes up to this every morning



:lmao
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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #197 on: April 7, 2016, 01:08:07 pm »
If every rich person and Company just paid their taxes it wouldn´t have to be 40%, more like 15-20% tax. And if you live in a country and use their schools, infrastructure, welfare etc and cant fucking afford or to be bothered to pay those 15% you should be sent to prison or deported from the country.

Like a good friend of mine said (who comes from a very rich family, billionaires, but  pays all their personal and company taxes in native Sweden unlike their wealthy friends) "People have yachts, house in the alps, Ferraris etc but they can´t afford to live in Sweden?"

But as someone already mentioned here, if there was only 10% taxes these fuckers would propably try to avoid it anyway. But if everyone could chip in, especially the superrich, the tax rate wouldn´t have to be that high anyway.
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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #198 on: April 7, 2016, 01:13:15 pm »
If every rich person and Company just paid their taxes it wouldn´t have to be 40%, more like 15-20% tax.

Would be interesting to know if the maths for this has actually ever been done. Would obviously involve some guess work as to the amount of money not being taxed which should be though.

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Re: The Panama Papers 11.5m files leaked.
« Reply #199 on: April 7, 2016, 01:47:06 pm »
http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/07/ex-hsbc-boss-michael-geoghegan-panama-papers-tried-to-avoid-tax-kensington-house

Former HSBC boss tried to avoid tax on £8m Kensington house
Panama Papers show Michael Geoghegan, a leading Brexit campaigner, has used offshore firms to manage his wealth

The leading Brexit campaigner Michael Geoghegan is not resident in the UK for tax purposes, the Guardian can reveal.

According to documents, the former chief executive of HSBC held his £8m Kensington townhouse through an offshore company – and planned to avoid tax by effectively renting the property to himself.

The details came to light as part of a Guardian investigation prompted by the Panama Papers leak.

Geoghegan said he took on temporary residency in the UK on three occasions while he was working for the bank. Explaining his decision to use offshore companies to hold British property, he said: “I am an international investor who has in the past invested in the UK as well as other countries.”

The banker was one of 250 business leaders to sign a recent letter saying they support Britain leaving the EU. He is one of several signatories of the letter, which was coordinated by the Vote Leave campaign group, to use offshore companies to manage his wealth.

                                                                                                                         

Obviously leaving the EU is in Britain's interest, but paying taxes here isn't. What a fucking scumbag.