Author Topic: John Barnes  (Read 171835 times)

Offline lionel_messias

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #560 on: July 5, 2021, 02:20:54 pm »
Said he wouldn't take the knee. Gone down in my estimation. Taking the knee is only part of anti-racism. His conservatism is sticking out a mile.

Barnes is extremely articulate and interesting on the subject of racism. And, never mind the fact I idolised him as a young fan, I will take his view on racism over mine (and others) any day, especially as a white middle aged bloke.

I don't think he's conservative, I think instead he does not like false liberalism and he also speaks uncomfortable truths. For example, he said he was pleased that Liam Neeson claimed (some years ago) he was ready to go out and "hurt a black person", after his friend was raped. Because it spoke of a rage that is present in society.

I have problems with taking the knee, but if Sterling and friends in that England team want to do it, then they should do it.
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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #561 on: July 5, 2021, 02:31:22 pm »
Said he wouldn't take the knee. Gone down in my estimation. Taking the knee is only part of anti-racism. His conservatism is sticking out a mile.

I find it strange how anyone can judge a black man for if he wants to kneel or not - especially Barnes, who not only has experienced a lot of racism as a sportsman but is extremely knowledgeable and well spoken about the subject.

Offline hide5seek

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #562 on: July 5, 2021, 03:18:25 pm »
John Barnes 

"Taking the knee is raising awareness in a negative way by providing a platform for those who want to boo. That makes it counterproductive. It is Einstein’s definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

-------------

I'm not black, so totally understand I don't and can never understand his experience with racism, and empathy is an easy word to say but not so easy to feel. But I still disagree with him on taking the knee.
Taking the knee also get's people talking (as the black power salutes did and Ali converting to being a Muslim did).
Yes, more can and needs to be done to stop/defeat racism, but not if it's hidden away (as Johnson tried with the Sewell report).
« Last Edit: July 5, 2021, 03:21:40 pm by hide5seek »

Offline Sangria

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #563 on: July 5, 2021, 05:05:01 pm »
John Barnes 

"Taking the knee is raising awareness in a negative way by providing a platform for those who want to boo. That makes it counterproductive. It is Einstein’s definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

-------------

I'm not black, so totally understand I don't and can never understand his experience with racism, and empathy is an easy word to say but not so easy to feel. But I still disagree with him on taking the knee.
Taking the knee also get's people talking (as the black power salutes did and Ali converting to being a Muslim did).
Yes, more can and needs to be done to stop/defeat racism, but not if it's hidden away (as Johnson tried with the Sewell report).

Barnes has always been consistent on people looking inwards to examine their own attitudes, rather than looking outwards to condemn others for not conforming to their stated standards.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline hide5seek

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #564 on: July 5, 2021, 06:23:06 pm »
Barnes has always been consistent on people looking inwards to examine their own attitudes, rather than looking outwards to condemn others for not conforming to their stated standards.
Sorry?

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #565 on: July 5, 2021, 06:25:00 pm »
Whether you agree with him or not on that issue, you can bet he has a very rational and intelligent reason behind his opinion. And I think his general overall view on anti-racism is possibly more informed than yours (certainly is compared to mine) given his background and life experience. Moving from Jamaica and despite his success still had, like, actual bananas thrown at him on the pitch.

It would be interesting to hear his reasons, particularly, as you point out, he's been subjected to racist abuse in the past.

Offline Sangria

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #566 on: July 5, 2021, 06:33:23 pm »
Sorry?

See his Question Time appearance. He spoke up for Liam Neeson when he was getting shedloads for his comment. He said that Neeson was honest about his inner feelings, which was something to be commended, and asked if everyone on the panel and in the audience was as free from prejudice as they supposed they were. His guess was no, prejudice is something that's instilled in you from your upbringing, and everyone has some sort. But not everyone is willing to look at themselves with the kind of honesty that Neeson showed. Barnes was pretty scathing about those who dismiss individuals they don't like with this label or that, "You're a racist".

It was almost universally recognised as one of the best QT guest appearances ever.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline hide5seek

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #567 on: July 5, 2021, 08:26:47 pm »
See his Question Time appearance. He spoke up for Liam Neeson when he was getting shedloads for his comment. He said that Neeson was honest about his inner feelings, which was something to be commended, and asked if everyone on the panel and in the audience was as free from prejudice as they supposed they were. His guess was no, prejudice is something that's instilled in you from your upbringing, and everyone has some sort. But not everyone is willing to look at themselves with the kind of honesty that Neeson showed. Barnes was pretty scathing about those who dismiss individuals they don't like with this label or that, "You're a racist".

It was almost universally recognised as one of the best QT guest appearances ever.
The point is probably to nuanced for me, but some people just are 'a racist'.

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #568 on: July 5, 2021, 08:46:50 pm »
Said he wouldn't take the knee. Gone down in my estimation. Taking the knee is only part of anti-racism. His conservatism is sticking out a mile.

Seems like a silly thing to say (esp the Con dig).

Whilst I will always support taking the knee,Diggers point and reasoning is solid & sure as shit isn't anti the cause,he has been there,seen it and done it over decades.

I'd love to watch somebody try to Whitesplain how he is wrong though,they all tried and failed over the collective Neeson pants pissing.
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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #569 on: July 5, 2021, 08:49:28 pm »
The point is probably to nuanced for me, but some people just are 'a racist'.

Sure,some people will always be c*nts but Digger would argue that they were not born c*nts & do not have to die still being a c*nt.
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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #570 on: July 5, 2021, 09:17:27 pm »
The thing about Barnes is that (for this country) hes somewhat rare… in that he’s an upper middle class kid form an educated family and privileged background.

Sadly far too few tuck that box in the U.K.

Barnes sees race and racism differently because his background is different and he grew up without racism.  Yes, he experienced racism when older, but he didn’t grow up with that feeling of being ‘other’

That doesn’t make his opinion right or wrong, but it perhaps explains why it’s different to many other views.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #571 on: July 5, 2021, 09:25:27 pm »
The thing about Barnes is that (for this country) hes somewhat rare… in that he’s an upper middle class kid form an educated family and privileged background.

Sadly far too few tuck that box in the U.K.

Barnes sees race and racism differently because his background is different and he grew up without racism.  Yes, he experienced racism when older, but he didn’t grow up with that feeling of being ‘other’

That doesn’t make his opinion right or wrong, but it perhaps explains why it’s different to many other views.


And that is something that he is always quick to point out.
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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #572 on: July 5, 2021, 11:39:28 pm »
Said he wouldn't take the knee. Gone down in my estimation. Taking the knee is only part of anti-racism. His conservatism is sticking out a mile.
I'm guessing you have just taken the headline and run with that instead of looking into why and what Barnes has said what he has said. The conservatism suggestion is just lazy and completely inaccurate.
You should listen to his interview with Nihal Arthanayake from 9th June on 5Live to get his take on it. Whether you agree with what he says or not he puts his points across articulately and with passion.

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #573 on: July 6, 2021, 10:21:54 am »
Yes, Barnes's critique of taking the knee is a radical one, not a conservative one. (Didn't Zaha object for a similar reason?) I don't agree with it, but he makes some good points.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #574 on: July 6, 2021, 10:30:32 am »
Yes, Barnes's critique of taking the knee is a radical one, not a conservative one. (Didn't Zaha object for a similar reason?) I don't agree with it, but he makes some good points.

A conservative argument would be to keep politics out of sport.
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline lionel_messias

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #575 on: July 6, 2021, 12:06:22 pm »
A conservative argument would be to keep politics out of sport.

I think it would be nice to keep politics out of sport but sadly some football fans racially abuse our players while they are on duty.

As Barnes always says, this is a society problem not just a football problem. Perhaps *I say naively* some racist England fans will learn from watching Raheem Sterling be England's best player and gradually realise, Sterling is what England looks like, he is what is England IS, as much as Harry Kane or anyone else.

Taking the knee, slightly different argument I don't want to get into but I would like to see this England team, united as they are together, walk off a football pitch at some stage if their mates are being racially abused. That's direct action and knuckle-heads that did it, will know, next to tall their mates that the match has stopped because of them.

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #576 on: July 6, 2021, 12:17:07 pm »
I understand that the taking a knee was to show solidarity and generally the people that have a problem with it are ignorant or racist

But it is quite strange to see what was originally a brave act of defiance and protest by Kaepernick be turned into something that is the status quo. In becoming uniform and standard procedure, definitely has lost some of its power and intent.

Then again when you see the fans booing it, it reminds you that general acceptance of racism being a real problem is not shared by the English public... Makes me want them to keep doing it or some other bigger gesture.

Offline markmywords

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #577 on: July 7, 2021, 03:59:25 pm »
I understand that the taking a knee was to show solidarity and generally the people that have a problem with it are ignorant or racist

But it is quite strange to see what was originally a brave act of defiance and protest by Kaepernick be turned into something that is the status quo. In becoming uniform and standard procedure, definitely has lost some of its power and intent.

Then again when you see the fans booing it, it reminds you that general acceptance of racism being a real problem is not shared by the English public... Makes me want them to keep doing it or some other bigger gesture.

It could be said to be turned on it's head entirely

There are some loose connections

During a pre game ritual, Kaepernick showed some dissent and highlighted a societal trend (that he loosely connected to the pregame ritual) he was unhappy with.  He was told what the pregame REALLY stood for and how it must be observed and he was blasted by his natural political opponents as being someone motivated by hate

Now we have fans showing dissent to a pregame ritual and trying to draw attention to societal trend they don't like i.e. wokeism.

And the people that stood up for kap are the ones attacking them and telling them what the pregame ritual really stands for and how it must be observed and are told they are purely motivated by hate

There are some connections, as well as many differences between both instances.  You have to admire kap's bravery, very distinct 

The problem we have is many of us assume the worst possible intentions for anyone that thinks differently from us, in these tribal times.  I applaud John Barnes for not being so tribal, he will be attacked for saying it, but you can imagine how badly he would be attacked if he was white and said it,  attacking the man and not the ball is the modern way
« Last Edit: July 7, 2021, 04:05:19 pm by markmywords »

Offline ToneLa

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #578 on: October 13, 2021, 09:32:31 am »
The big man will be appearing on Celebrity Trash Monsters: What's Your Waste Size?

He will be "coming face to face with his mountain of TRASH by wearing it for two weeks."

Channel 4, Sunday at 9PM.

Offline Barrow Shaun

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #579 on: January 17, 2022, 06:33:46 pm »
Was lucky enough to see John Barnes a few times. He made people push forward in the crowd when he had the ball, or if they were sitting, you'd hear all the seats snap back. An old United mate - circa 1990/91 - also told me that when Liverpool played United he "put the fear of God into them."
I've been writing bits and bobs for years. This is from my (*cough, snigger*) book attempt from years ago. Anyway, it saves me repeating because I can just copy and paste. Hope you guys don't mind me indulging myself for a moment....

On John Barnes (happy memories - written 2015-ish -it's not a lot.):

"...and the turn of John Barnes to properly light up my world.

I have to say at this point, that until Luis Suarez in recent years, John Barnes was absolutely the most brilliant and gifted player I had ever seen live, in my life, bar none.
People quite rightly talk of King Kenny of course, and I know he was just simply World Class as I’ve seen years and years of footage and goals and assists, but I actually saw very little of him live, unfortunately, so it has always been Digger Barnes for me. Never had I seen people get out of their seats so much when a player received the ball. Never had I seen a player beat people so effortlessly.

Around 89/90 a Manchester united fan whose view I always respected quietly admitted that John Barnes was the one Liverpool player that their fans feared, any time he got the ball.

Anyway, back to the game with me and my Scottish mate Kev – October 1987 – QPR at home.

You see goals from this game quite often on various highlights snippets, usually at least once a season or something – specifically John Barnes’s two to wrap up the game.

With one goal, he plays a one-two on the edge of the box and side foots high into Seaman’s left hand corner, and with the other he blocks then runs from the halfway line, feints one way then the other on the edge of the box to beat two players, then rolls it classily past Seaman’s left hand along the deck.

Brilliant goals, and the crowd went mental – and if you see the footage, then me and Kev (me for the first time ever) are bang  smack right in the middle of The Kop, right in the middle of the songs, the jostling, the flags, the atmosphere.

This is, was, quite simply, as good as it gets.

It’s one thing purring all the way home yourself, but when you know your team have put on one hell of a show for someone else – for someone you want to show your team off to – for a good mate - when you’re both travelling from away, with all the associated costs, etc – and they put on a truly magical show (to go top of the league against the then league leaders, no less) then it’s just special.

And John Barnes had the whole ground crackling that day.

Thanks John.

And any football fan who ever, ever casts any single shred of doubt on your ability as a wonderfully-gifted, magnificent footballer, …in my company anyway, will just quite simply and plainly be dismissed …deservedly so….as a stupid fucking idiot. "
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Offline Jon2lfc

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #580 on: January 17, 2022, 07:09:14 pm »
Deffo one of my favourite ever players.

The thing about Barnes was that he was truly gifted but he gave off that air of [modest] nonchalence and effortless skill.
It almost seemed like he only needed to be in 3rd gear to waltz past opponents.
He just purred around on the pitch. Probably the coolest winger you'll ever see.

Imagine if he'd downed a few Red Bulls* and switched up to 4th or 5th gear! He'd have a lot more plaudits, assists and goals.
Lazy git.
 ;D
Joking, but you know what I mean. He played with such grace that it seemed effortless, as if he was in a training session almost.



*yet to be invented in the 80s/90s!

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #581 on: January 17, 2022, 07:50:03 pm »

*yet to be invented in the 80s/90s!

yet to have been exported to the west in the 80s/90s

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Offline The Final Third

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #582 on: November 18, 2022, 02:05:50 pm »
Digger appointed Club ambassador - well deserved.

Liverpool FC@LFC
#LFC legend @officialbarnesy has been appointed as a club ambassador, a role that will see him represent the Reds at home and abroad. 🔴

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #583 on: November 18, 2022, 03:05:06 pm »
brilliant choice
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #584 on: November 18, 2022, 03:51:33 pm »
That’s good to see. Always speaks well of us, great choice to get him officially involved.

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #585 on: November 18, 2022, 04:03:19 pm »
Digger appointed Club ambassador - well deserved.

Liverpool FC@LFC
#LFC legend @officialbarnesy has been appointed as a club ambassador, a role that will see him represent the Reds at home and abroad. 🔴

Excellent and about time.

Offline Aldo1988

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #586 on: November 19, 2022, 09:17:54 am »
Great choice, the man always speaks sense.
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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #587 on: November 20, 2022, 10:45:44 am »
Probably my favourite ever player.  Met him a week after Hillsborough at Tranmere Rovers - my husband was severely injured and we were invited to the service by Tranmere.  He sat down with us for ages and gave me a massive bear hug when he had to leave.  Just a genuinely lovely bloke, and a brilliant player to boot.

Oh my brother, who is a blue,  one of his daughters is John Barnes' son's sister in law   :D.  Life is very unfair sometimes  >:(
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Offline Johnny Foreigner

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #588 on: November 20, 2022, 11:02:05 am »
wonderful player and role model. he kept going and some of the shit he had to take from our own supporters was very bad - but he won in the end..
It’s not even about individuality, it’s about the team. Our game was based on his controlling of the tempo. Squeeze the life out of the opposition and then strike. That is our game. Like a pack of pythons.

Offline BER

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #589 on: November 29, 2022, 10:46:39 pm »
Another paid for mouthpiece of the sportswashers. He's had that whiff for a while now.

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #590 on: November 29, 2022, 11:43:59 pm »
Another paid for mouthpiece of the sportswashers. He's had that whiff for a while now.

?? what's he said?

Offline BER

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #591 on: November 30, 2022, 10:07:56 am »

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #592 on: November 30, 2022, 10:15:49 am »
?? what's he said?

He did some whataboutery with what western nations have done and also lighly suggested we have respect for their culture.  I dont agree with him, certainly with the latter, but to suggest he is taking Qatari money with no proof is a bit much.
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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #593 on: November 30, 2022, 10:18:54 am »
Would be massively shocked if he is. He's a bit different to most of the other ex-footballers in the media, he's got a brain, sometimes he approaches topics from angles I don't necessarily agree with. You can be fairly certain his opinions are his own though and he's actually had a think about something before he talks about it.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline rob1966

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #594 on: November 30, 2022, 10:24:26 am »
He did some whataboutery with what western nations have done and also lighly suggested we have respect for their culture.  I dont agree with him, certainly with the latter, but to suggest he is taking Qatari money with no proof is a bit much.


If this is that GMB interview he did, all I took from it was he was being balanced. Yes, if you go to another country, the same as if you come here, then respect their laws and culture. If you don't like their laws/culture, then don't go, or if you do, be prepared for what will happen.

I don't agree at all with their views on LGBTQ+, but that is what they are taught from a young age and if you feel the need to go there and protest, you have to understand that they will arrest and prosecute you, its the risk you take sadly. It would be wonderful if they changed their views and hopefully one day they do.



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Offline lionel_messias

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #595 on: November 30, 2022, 10:24:44 am »
Another paid for mouthpiece of the sportswashers. He's had that whiff for a while now.

In fairness to John Barnes, best to look up his appearance on ITV and make your own mind up. He's often contrarian to normal views because he's sharp and very articulate.

End of the day, we shouldn't have had a World Cup in Qatar if we want a World Cup to be inclusive and welcoming to people of all types and proclivities. We are there is that is a problem for some people, and Fifa are spineless twats of the lowest order.
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #596 on: November 30, 2022, 10:42:51 am »
If this is that GMB interview he did, all I took from it was he was being balanced. Yes, if you go to another country, the same as if you come here, then respect their laws and culture. If you don't like their laws/culture, then don't go, or if you do, be prepared for what will happen.

I don't agree at all with their views on LGBTQ+, but that is what they are taught from a young age and if you feel the need to go there and protest, you have to understand that they will arrest and prosecute you, its the risk you take sadly. It would be wonderful if they changed their views and hopefully one day they do.

I dont agree with that Rob.  Certain aspects of their culture is shit and Ill never respect that. 
They paid brown envelopes to have developed cultures visit them and then lied about how these developed people will be treated, there is nothing to respect.
Fans visiting the world cup is not like choosing to go there on holiday. 
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #597 on: November 30, 2022, 01:01:22 pm »
I dont agree with that Rob.  Certain aspects of their culture is shit and Ill never respect that. 
They paid brown envelopes to have developed cultures visit them and then lied about how these developed people will be treated, there is nothing to respect.
Fans visiting the world cup is not like choosing to go there on holiday.

Why not? Qatar isn’t exactly a centre of Middle Eastern cultural history,unlike parts of Saudi Arabia.

Offline lionel_messias

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #598 on: November 30, 2022, 03:10:14 pm »
I dont agree with that Rob.  Certain aspects of their culture is shit and Ill never respect that. 
They paid brown envelopes to have developed cultures visit them and then lied about how these developed people will be treated, there is nothing to respect.
Fans visiting the world cup is not like choosing to go there on holiday. 


We all disagree with it (I think) but if you travel to a country with Sharia law, and there are a few of them, you have to respect their laws or will end up behind bars.

The problem is you cannot go to this World Cup and expect to be treated as you would in Rome or Barcelona, Fifa are not importing tolerance and liberal values there, which was the mistake 12 years ago when Qatar's money won the bid.

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #599 on: November 30, 2022, 03:17:50 pm »


The problem is you cannot go to this World Cup and expect to be treated as you would in Rome or Barcelona



So you won’t get stabbed or pickpocketed?