Author Topic: Adam Lallana  (Read 586857 times)

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3000 on: June 8, 2018, 07:47:42 am »
Such a pity he is always injured... Can't see him getting another decent contract at another club if he has another big injury next season. Surely it's in everyone's (Lallana and the club's) interest to let him go for a decent fee this summer?
think it’s his last season here, at the least he’s cover for ox at the start of the season

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3001 on: June 8, 2018, 08:09:23 am »
Such a pity he is always injured... Can't see him getting another decent contract at another club if he has another big injury next season. Surely it's in everyone's (Lallana and the club's) interest to let him go for a decent fee this summer?
Do you think we should let Henderson and Clyne go for decent fees too considering Lallana has made the same number of appearances as one and more than the other under Klopp?
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Offline Roger Federer

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3002 on: June 8, 2018, 08:55:35 am »
1. Fabinho replacing Can
2. Henderson
3. Keita
4. Wijnaldum
5. Milner
6. Oxlade*
7. Fekir (50/50) replacing Coutinho
8. Lallana
9. Grujic
10. Woodburn

I think 6.5 senior midfielders is ideal. It's what we started with last year and we weren't short until we lost Coutinho.  To me one development guy behind them (I'd prefer Woodburn) is all we have room for. So I have one of Grujic or Woodburn gone and one of Lallana, Milner or Wijnaldum to be sold as well.  Maybe in a world cup year, with Oxlade having an LTI we can wait until January but remember we started last season with Lallana on LTI as well.  I personally think we should move on Grujic and one of the other three for squad harmony reasons.

As previously posted:
Last Season (minutes played):
DM: Henderson (3286), Can (2973)
CM: Wijnaldum (3603), Milner (2767)
AM: Oxlade (2074), Lallana(461), Coutinho* (916)         
*50% of Coutinho minutes

Happy to change the names but to me it was the right mix of numbers (prior to losing Coutinho)
I think it’s right that there is no absolute need for 8 senior players (or 7.5 if Fekir is alternating between midfield and attack). But looking at your numbers we can also see that the attacking midfield position takes up roughly half of the other two. Injures to Lallana, AOC adapting (and then injured) as well as Coutinho leaving hurt us in terms of creativty and goals from midfield. That position was often taken by the other midfielders like Wijnaldum or Can. When our front 3 fires on all cylinders that still works, but it is clear to see that we struggled to break teams down at other times.

Having Fekir and Keita surely help with that, but on the other hand we are now without AOC instead for much of the season (and we don’t know how he’ll recover). To move on Lallana at this time seems highly unneccesary. Our number of players would look more ’normal’ and we save a bit of money, but if we can afford it, I still don’t get why we would sell anyone.

Sure, if everyone is always fit, we waste a player or two by having them in the stands, but those who miss out are still good players who gives us something when they actually play. And they will, at least at times, since we almost never have a fully fit squad. I don’t see the downside in having around 21-22 (instead of just 18) senior players in the squad as long as they are all good players and happy to do their part. Especially not when we want to compete on at least two fronts, maybe go further in the cups, and we have 3-4 new starters who’ll need to adjust to Klopp’s methods.
« Last Edit: June 8, 2018, 08:58:02 am by Roger Federer »

Offline gjr1

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3003 on: June 8, 2018, 09:17:18 am »
Can't see any seniors midfielders leaving this window.

Grujic and Woodburn possibly loan moves.

For the real big games you need a quality bench. And if we keep all the senior players we'll have loads of options.

That's got to be a good thing.
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Offline KingKolo

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3004 on: June 8, 2018, 09:54:19 am »
If last season's near miss proved anything, it was that we need more depth.

AOC is LTI and Nab, Fab & Fek all need to bed in, Grujic will be on loan and Milner is getting on a bit.

Overall there is a job for Lallana to do if he can have a good pre-season.

If the new signings all settle well and AOC makes a good recovery, Lallana may have a difficult fight on his hands even if he does stay fit and firing. But that's a matter for a future transfer window, not this one.

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3005 on: June 8, 2018, 10:17:16 am »
I'm fully confident he will be back fit and firing come next season. A good solid pre-season and lots of minutes in pre-season and I think we'll start to see the old Lallana. If that happens then we've got a lot of quality and more depth next season.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3006 on: June 8, 2018, 01:45:41 pm »
If last season's near miss proved anything, it was that we need more depth.

AOC is LTI and Nab, Fab & Fek all need to bed in, Grujic will be on loan and Milner is getting on a bit.

Overall there is a job for Lallana to do if he can have a good pre-season.

If the new signings all settle well and AOC makes a good recovery, Lallana may have a difficult fight on his hands even if he does stay fit and firing. But that's a matter for a future transfer window, not this one.

I question that more depth is the answer (as I always do at this time of the year). We should view last season in a different way than us lacking depth. We did the right things. That's why we got the results we did. My view is we didn't lack depth. We used the right number of players. Meaning there's no need for more players when we get to next season. Better players - sure. But not more.

With this view, we saw that it was good to have five CMs on 'heavy rotation'. Naturally I think we should try the same next season. We also saw that while it worked to play the front three a lot, we were lacking quality options when Coutinho left. We could argue that there's a place for five attackers too, because that would basically mean the same setup as CM. Three positions and five players on that 'heavy rotation'.

This brings me to Lallana. Is he one of those 5+5 players? That's the question we should ask for all our CMs and attackers. There are some guaranteed options. Henderson, Fabinho, Keita, Wijnaldum, AOC, Salah, Firmino and Mane = 8 places covered. Now if we add Fekir, who gets the last spot? It could be Lallana, but we could also choose Grujic, Milner, Ings, Origi etc, or a new player (Shaqiri?). Will be interesting to see who 'wins' the competition for that final spot.


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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3007 on: June 8, 2018, 01:54:23 pm »
You need quality options, as we found out in the last two months of the season once we played City in Europe and progressed, it was hard for us to keep playing that way in the league as well, we had injuries and in the end lack of options killed us in the biggest final of them all.


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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3008 on: June 8, 2018, 03:11:56 pm »
I question that more depth is the answer (as I always do at this time of the year). We should view last season in a different way than us lacking depth. We did the right things. That's why we got the results we did. My view is we didn't lack depth. We used the right number of players. Meaning there's no need for more players when we get to next season. Better players - sure. But not more.
Well, Fabinho and Fekir are just replacements for Can and Coutinho respectively, so they're not adding to the depth overall if we compare with last August's squad.
But for me, after last season's January window, we lacked depth in terms of options for the forward line, and ultimately paid the price. You'll be hard pressed to to find many people who think losing Sturridge and Coutinho with no replacement left a perfect number of options for the front three.

Now if we add Fekir, who gets the last spot? It could be Lallana, but we could also choose Grujic, Milner, Ings, Origi etc, or a new player (Shaqiri?). Will be interesting to see who 'wins' the competition for that final spot.
Unless he gets injured again in pre-season, I think Lallana has done enough to warrant consideration ahead of those others you mention.

Offline martinsquirtle

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3009 on: June 8, 2018, 03:23:11 pm »
If he can stay fit, he still has a huge part to play in this squad. Not sure why everyone is expecting him to be phased out - we will be competing on all fronts next season.

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3010 on: June 8, 2018, 03:28:43 pm »
If he can stay fit, he still has a huge part to play in this squad. Not sure why everyone is expecting him to be phased out - we will be competing on all fronts next season.

It's not that I expect Lallana to get phased out. I'm only arguing that someone will get phased out.
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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3011 on: June 8, 2018, 03:29:23 pm »
It's not that I expect Lallana to get phased out. I'm only arguing that someone will get phased out.
Do you have a view on who?

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3012 on: June 8, 2018, 03:47:33 pm »
Ill revisit this thread on August 10th when the window closes. You can give me all the shit you want if Lallana is still here

We will see then.

This is the sort of thing I would expect to see on twatter from one of those ITK scatter gun approach fools.

Fact is Adam is a player we were crying out for last season when playing against the park the bus sides like United,next season if fit he will switch with Fekir (if signed),I doubt that we will ever play with them both in the side but they will both get lots of minutes.
« Last Edit: June 8, 2018, 03:49:46 pm by WhereAngelsPlay »
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Offline KingKolo

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3013 on: June 8, 2018, 04:39:11 pm »
So instead of giving a path to youngsters we should keep Lallana in the team as an 8th midfielder who will get no minutes and we pay him 75-100k p/w to not play?

Great job. Name me a single team who has EIGHT senior midfielders. Thats established pros who are making 60k p/w+

Thats stupid amounts of squad depth. We play with 3 midfielders and you think we need 5 back-ups??
Lallana is also an option for the forward line.

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3014 on: June 8, 2018, 04:50:38 pm »
Lallana is also an option for the forward line.

He shouldn't be. He should play in midfield or sit on the bench.

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3015 on: June 8, 2018, 04:55:38 pm »
It's not that I expect Lallana to get phased out. I'm only arguing that someone will get phased out.
I think you might be right, and almost certainly are if Fekir is being bought primarily for midfield (although I have doubts about this). Might be more likely to be Milner though, and his contract is up at the end of the season I think so it might just happen naturally. Definitely agree though that midfield is one area in which we're over-covered, if anything. I know they get through a lot of work so there should be a fair amount of rotation but even then, 7 or 8 players for 3 positions seems slightly excessive.

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3016 on: June 8, 2018, 05:06:46 pm »
I think you might be right, and almost certainly are if Fekir is being bought primarily for midfield (although I have doubts about this). Might be more likely to be Milner though, and his contract is up at the end of the season I think so it might just happen naturally. Definitely agree though that midfield is one area in which we're over-covered, if anything. I know they get through a lot of work so there should be a fair amount of rotation but even then, 7 or 8 players for 3 positions seems slightly excessive.

Our bench will be a wonderful sight.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3017 on: June 8, 2018, 06:33:21 pm »
Well, Fabinho and Fekir are just replacements for Can and Coutinho respectively, so they're not adding to the depth overall if we compare with last August's squad.
But for me, after last season's January window, we lacked depth in terms of options for the forward line, and ultimately paid the price. You'll be hard pressed to to find many people who think losing Sturridge and Coutinho with no replacement left a perfect number of options for the front three.

Unless he gets injured again in pre-season, I think Lallana has done enough to warrant consideration ahead of those others you mention.

It was a mistake not to replace Coutinho. Sturridge was, in all honesty, not a loss. I don't want to sound disrespectful, but he isn't the player he was. His inability to play enough games has been a problem for years.

What I like about Lallana is he can be used in multiple roles. That's an advantage. He is also different in style which is good. The challenge for him is to go from being a handy option to being more of a first pick.

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Offline Djozer

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3018 on: June 8, 2018, 06:50:28 pm »
Our bench will be a wonderful sight.
Aye, fuck knows what it'll look like. Keeper, Matip, Clyne, Hendo/Fab, Ox (when fit), Lallana, Shaquiri? Probably could do with a more central forward option, so maybe drop one of the CMs?

Still missing out Klavan, Gomez, Moreno, Gini, Milner, Origi, Ings, Solanke and then you've got the younger fringe attackers like Wilson, Woodburn, Kent etc, although I'm sure several of those, and probably a couple of Ings/Solanke/Origi will be leaving, whether on loan or permanently. Grujic too, probably.

If we retain all of the current first team CMs then I think we'll struggle to keep everyone happy but, as a dead eyed psychopath once said:


Offline DanA

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3019 on: June 9, 2018, 12:44:59 am »
Our bench will be a wonderful sight.

If you’ve got Gini, Milner, Lallana and Henderson on the bench and then say Matip, Clyne and Karius that sucks. Great players but where is the pace and goals?

You’re much better off trading out one of those mids and adding an attacker with pace that can score a goal. It’s a tough decision because they’re all very good but IMO a tough decision needs to be made.
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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3020 on: June 9, 2018, 01:08:36 am »
If you’ve got Gini, Milner, Lallana and Henderson on the bench and then say Matip, Clyne and Karius that sucks. Great players but where is the pace and goals?

You’re much better off trading out one of those mids and adding an attacker with pace that can score a goal. It’s a tough decision because they’re all very good but IMO a tough decision needs to be made.
When we do a proper mix-and-match for different games, we'll be fine. If we had Ox and Lallana available for the end of the season, we could have even got #6. Ox will be back, hopefully at least as good as he was before the injury. Then, we won't play every game Mane, Salah, Firmino, Fekir and Keita. Gini, Milner and Hendo will have their roles. 
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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3021 on: June 9, 2018, 03:01:38 am »
If you’ve got Gini, Milner, Lallana and Henderson on the bench and then say Matip, Clyne and Karius that sucks. Great players but where is the pace and goals?

You’re much better off trading out one of those mids and adding an attacker with pace that can score a goal. It’s a tough decision because they’re all very good but IMO a tough decision needs to be made.

They got us into the CL two seasons in a row and to a CL final. They aren’t out of their league like a Jay Spearing. I’m looking forward to how competition for places may affect Hendo, Lallana and Gini’s performances this season.
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Offline DanA

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3022 on: June 9, 2018, 04:10:13 am »
They got us into the CL two seasons in a row and to a CL final. They aren’t out of their league like a Jay Spearing. I’m looking forward to how competition for places may affect Hendo, Lallana and Gini’s performances this season.

That kind of my point. There’s no obvious choice.

We’ve got six chairs and 8 bums. It’s gonna be one hell of a game of stand up sit / down played, but IMO two are gonna be left standing.
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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3023 on: June 9, 2018, 08:37:39 am »
Lallana would still be needed till Ox fully recovers.

Lets hope he stays injury free and have a great pre season with us getting to know how to function with Fabinho and Keita. Better than getting knocked out in the first round of the world cup.

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3024 on: June 9, 2018, 11:21:14 am »
I think he will be the odd man out if Fekir signs

I dont really do sentiment, 30 year old with injuries issue, if we get a good offer we should look to move him on.


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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3025 on: June 9, 2018, 11:47:30 am »
Did anyone figure out what Oxlade-Chamberlain actually suffered? Was it an ACL?

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3026 on: June 9, 2018, 12:06:49 pm »
I really don't get this obsession with getting rid of Lallana (or any of our senior CMs), it's almost as if he is to blame for all our problems and we need to be rid of him asap for the good of the squad.

The one thing I was always envious about the Mancs was that they always seems to have senior players that were happy to take a reduced role in the squad yet had the quality and desire to make a difference when they were called upon (as opposed to simply sitting there taking the cash).

We need to retain that level of experience and quality within the squad, even as we strive to improve the first XI.

Naturally there will be 1 or 2 that ask to leave and I'm sure in that case that Klopp will be happy to let them go seeing as he only wants the ones who are 100% committed.

Lallana probably only has one more season at the top but if he is committed to us and is desperate to recover from his injuries then I'm not going to turf him out prematurely.
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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3027 on: June 9, 2018, 12:11:12 pm »
I really don't get this obsession with getting rid of Lallana (or any of our senior CMs), it's almost as if he is to blame for all our problems and we need to be rid of him asap for the good of the squad.

The one thing I was always envious about the Mancs was that they always seems to have senior players that were happy to take a reduced role in the squad yet had the quality and desire to make a difference when they were called upon (as opposed to simply sitting there taking the cash).

We need to retain that level of experience and quality within the squad, even as we strive to improve the first XI.

Naturally there will be 1 or 2 that ask to leave and I'm sure in that case that Klopp will be happy to let them go seeing as he only wants the ones who are 100% committed.

Lallana probably only has one more season at the top but if he is committed to us and is desperate to recover from his injuries then I'm not going to turf him out prematurely.


Same. He's versatile too, can play centre mid or further forward. He's not that old yet, and I can't imagine him wanting to leave, whoever he went to next would be a massive step down. He's a great player to have in the squad. He's had a shitty year, but the year before he was our absolute gem.
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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3028 on: June 9, 2018, 12:23:00 pm »
I'm of the opinion that we have sort of reversed what we needed to do with the team this year.

We were all (well, mostly) crying out for improvements in the bench-department at the end of the season - We had so many injuries that pretty much all of our bench options were a huge drop-off in quality, compared to the first-choice player that they were replacing.

So I was thinking that we needed to improve the level of player available on the bench - After all, we were never likely to sign more than a couple of big game players, were we?   ;)

However, what JK and the club appear to be doing is improving the bench by bringing in players who are upgrades (or at least SHOULD be upgrades, once they adapt to PL) on the existing encumbents, thus improving both the first XI AND the bench, by having the choice of starting either of the 2 options and having the other in the wings for rest/injury-cover.

Lallana is still an integral part of this team for me, as when fit, he is still a 50/50 option to start every game.

The advantage next season is that our backup players for any given game have improved massively on this season, simply by having viable alternatives, rather than a clear starter and a 50-75% as good alternative on the bench.

Let's be honest, almosty nobody is going to guaranteed a starting berth this season, and I cannot wait for it to start again.
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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3029 on: June 9, 2018, 12:39:11 pm »
Bizarrely written off by so many who have such short term memories.
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Offline Djozer

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3030 on: June 9, 2018, 12:47:22 pm »
I really don't get this obsession with getting rid of Lallana (or any of our senior CMs), it's almost as if he is to blame for all our problems and we need to be rid of him asap for the good of the squad.

I don't think anyone's obsessed with getting rid of him mate (or I'm not anyway), it's more pointing out that we now have a lot of senior CMs, especially if Fekir comes and plays there sometimes, and some may not play very much at all or even get on the bench much. It's not a massive issue, and if they're happy to stay with potentially limited minutes and the club is happy to keep on paying them 100+k per week then it's all good.

As you say though, probably one or two might want to leave and Klopp will let them, and then we'll be back to a more manageable number. No biggie.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3031 on: June 9, 2018, 12:57:01 pm »
I really don't get this obsession with getting rid of Lallana (or any of our senior CMs), it's almost as if he is to blame for all our problems and we need to be rid of him asap for the good of the squad.

The one thing I was always envious about the Mancs was that they always seems to have senior players that were happy to take a reduced role in the squad yet had the quality and desire to make a difference when they were called upon (as opposed to simply sitting there taking the cash).

We need to retain that level of experience and quality within the squad, even as we strive to improve the first XI.

Naturally there will be 1 or 2 that ask to leave and I'm sure in that case that Klopp will be happy to let them go seeing as he only wants the ones who are 100% committed.

Lallana probably only has one more season at the top but if he is committed to us and is desperate to recover from his injuries then I'm not going to turf him out prematurely.

It's about what we get from the players we have. I don't know how many times I have looked at our squad, compared it with the other top sides and thought we're strong. And then the season began and we fell behind. Because it's primarily not about how many players you have. It's about how good your best 15-18 players are. This means having someone like Lallana be player 19, 20 or 21 in the squad is more or less pointless. Therefore it's worth asking where he is. One of the criterias we need to consider is how many games those best players are available.

Let's compare

Lallana
17/18: 1+11 PL games
16/17: 27+4
15/16: 23+7
Average: 17+7

Sturridge
17/18: 5+4 (and 2+4 for WBA)
16/17: 7+13
15/16: 11+3
Average: 8+8

Milner
17/18: 16+16
16/17: 36+0
15/16: 28+0
Average: 27+5

A player like Milner is always available. His average in this period is 32 PL appearances. The value of having him in the squad is obvious. If we contrast this to Sturridge, unfortunately Sturridge offers what I would call 'false' depth. His average is to be available for less than every two games and we can't carry a player like that.

Lallana falls in between those two. He tends to be available for 2/3 of the games. That's good and it's what we need. But is he good enough with the added competition (Fabinho, Keita)? I don't think he is an automatic pick and this is why it's a difficult situation. He can play enough games, it's unsure if he will get to do it with the added competition, he is on the wrong side of 30, but we have a few young players making his age less important, he can play in multiple roles,...

        * * * * * *


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Offline Giono

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3032 on: June 9, 2018, 02:50:01 pm »
I think he will be the odd man out if Fekir signs

I dont really do sentiment, 30 year old with injuries issue, if we get a good offer we should look to move him on.

Sentiment is a big part of being a football supporter. Video games are more suited to the unsentimental where you just exchange players like components based on a limited number of skills.

Klopp likes Lalalana. I really doubt that he is going to jetison players he has relied on for yeas so easily. Look at Lucas. He didn’t want to lose Lucas even though it became clear that Lucas was fading and was even being played in defence. But in the end it was Lucas’ decision to move on. I could see Lallana and Milner following that path eventually.
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Offline jepovic

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3033 on: June 9, 2018, 03:10:18 pm »
I doubt that we'll see much of Lallana in Liverpool going forward. He's struggling to get even remotely in shape, and he seems to need a lot of games to flourish. I'd love to see him back in full force, but I think he's the next sturridge case.

Just realized we might use an alll English bench next season. Milner, Lallana, Henderson, Clyne, Solanke, Oxlade

Offline rocco

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3034 on: June 9, 2018, 06:04:18 pm »
Did anyone figure out what Oxlade-Chamberlain actually suffered? Was it an ACL?

Sure I read Cruciate Ligament Rupture

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3035 on: June 9, 2018, 06:05:11 pm »
Sure I read Cruciate Ligament Rupture
But which one?
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Offline Peabee

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3036 on: June 9, 2018, 06:25:45 pm »
But which one?

I don’t think they’ve said which ligament. I’ve seen ACL mentioned, but that’s just guess work.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3037 on: June 9, 2018, 08:50:09 pm »
Its a big season for Lallana. If he is out for another 6-week to 3 month stretch then I reckon this will rightly be his last season.

Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3038 on: June 9, 2018, 10:42:15 pm »
Lallana is still an integral part of this team for me, as when fit, he is still a 50/50 option to start every game.


 :o

If he was an integral part of the team, wouldn't he be a 100% option to start every game?

Kinda like saying, a Goalkeeper is an integral part of a football team but we only play one half the time..

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Re: Adam Lallana
« Reply #3039 on: June 9, 2018, 11:27:56 pm »
:o

If he was an integral part of the team, wouldn't he be a 100% option to start every game?

Kinda like saying, a Goalkeeper is an integral part of a football team but we only play one half the time..

If you actually read my whole post, you would see that EVERYONE is a 50/50 option for each starting XI, and this is a good thing as it means that we can rest/rotate/cover injuries and change our tactical setup for each and every game.

Lallana is integral to our team (or if you want to be pedantic, to our squad), as when fit, he is clearly one of the starting options for the attacking midfield role(s).
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