Topic: Roma: Through If We Win, Out If We Dont - PROBABLY

[GavBelfast]

At last, after all the ifs and buts, it really is that simple.

If we beat Roma, we'll both have seven points but a better record against them (a draw and a win).  

(I was really concerned if Galatasaray had held on to win tonight, and our game finished goalless - Gala/Barca could have screwed us in Istanbul next week.  Now they can't).

The "Champions" League - at last it's as exciting as the UEFA Cup!!!


Having read our resident and thoroughly lovable Anorak, Anthony, and all his assurances about permutations, I now realise we have to win by 2 clear goals to make sure of second place, whatever the result of the other game, and any win will do if the other game does not end in a draw.

Cheers, Anthony, and sorry for jumping the gun!        

[Anthony]

Not quite! If Barca & Gala draw then Barca will have 7 points as well! We will then be in a mini-league like Arsenal - and we'll all have 5 points! I believe Goal Difference then comes into play - Roma currently have +3, Barca have -1 and we have -2.

I make it that we will want to win by 2 or 3 clear goals *or* hope that either Barca & Gala win. In that event the winner of that game wins the group & we pip Roma on the basis of the aggregate win.

[GavBelfast]

I AM SURE WE ARE THROUGH IF WE WIN.

WHERE ARE THE TRUE ANORAKS WHO KNOW THESE THINGS/ALL THE PERMUTATIONS???!!!

[Anthony]

Somebody called?  

If we beat Roma we qualify unless Barca & Gala also draw, in which case there are 3 teams on 7 points  

From http://www.uefa.com/competitions/UCL/News/Kind=1/newsId=19291.html

If two or more teams finish equal on points after all the group matches have been played, the following criteria are applied to determine the rankings:  

1) Higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the teams in question.

All Teams would have 5 points from the games

2) Superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams in question.

So far Roma have scored 4 & conceded 1 (+3)
Barcelona have scored 4 & conceded 5 (-1)
Liverpool have scored 1 & conceded 3 (-2)

Therefore if we win by *2* clear goals we finish above Barca

3) Higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches played among the teams in question.

Barcelona have scored 3, Roma have scored 1 and we have scored none!

Therefore if we only win by *1* clear goal Barca & Roma would finish above us.

4) Superior goal difference from all group matches played.

It won't come to this but currently it's Roma +3, Barca -1 & Liverpool -2.    

5) Higher number of goals scored.

6) Coefficient points accumulated by the club in question, as well as its association, over the previous five seasons.


So...

If we win by 2 clear goals we qualify
If we win by 1 clear goal we qualify unless Barca draw
If we draw we are out!    
If we lose we are out!    
 
(As just confirmed by ITV Sport!   )

[Eli_B (aka Badland Red)]

Anthony....

I fully understood the requirements and the task in which the men in red have to do. That is win by a scoreline of 2-0 or more. Or a 1-0 win with Barca drawing against Gala  :but:

Roll on next tuesady at Anfield!!. It should be an absouletly electric atomsphere, as well as cracking contest, where both teams have to win to get to the last 8 of the Champions Cup!  

[hampsy]

Thanks guys...........................we're going through      

[Anthony]

Noooo... - A 1-0 win means any result *except* Barca drawing!

[laddo]

in simple terms.....

Liverpool can reach the last eight of the competition if they beat Roma at Anfield by two clear goals. A victory by any scoreline will be sufficient if there is a single winner in the other game between Galatasaray and Barcelona.

[Anthony]

So how does it apply to the other Teams & how are they likely to play?

Roma - Qualify if they avoid defeat. If they lose they have to hope Barca & Gala draw (and that we don't beat them by 4 clear goals!) Therefore expect them to play tight for a draw!

Barca - Qualify if they win. If they draw they have to hope we don't beat Roma by 2 or 3 goals in order to qualify.

Gala - Qualify if they win, go out if they don't!

Therefore I expect an all-out game there as a draw suits neither team really.

[Anthony]

One other factor to be considered is the trouble tonight at the Olympic Stadium (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/football/champions_league/newsid_1868000/1868463.stm) If, on the basis of this, the match is awarded to Galatasaray then our situation is basically unchanged *except* that a Gala/Barca draw would definitely put us out even if we win. If Roma were to be expelled from the competition(! It ain't going to happen!) then firstly we don't have a match next week. It would also mean that, with the Gala-Barca game left to play, the respective table would be Barca 6, Gala 3, LFC 3 - we would need Barca to win for us to progress. (But it ain't going to happen)

[Paul]

Its still bloody complicated! If we would have snatched a goal tonight (and we could have done, as I think we had the better chances) would we have been that much better off?

Cant wait for next Tuesday now. Hopefully Owen will be back, but Hamann is really gonna be missed.

[Craig S]

Fuck me!
How can everyone work this out, why isnt everyone bladdered like me! :
I'll read this again in the morining.
Whatever, its gonna be crackin atmos at anfield next week.

[GavBelfast]

You win, Anthony!

PS. Bet you always get longer words than 'Dictionary Corner' and the numbers game before Carol does every day ....

 

[JayWay]

You missed one important part of the UEFA CL rule book, near the back.

"If two or more teams are tied with neither tie braking formula (goal differential, highest accumulation of points between the teams) then the final tie braker shall be instated in which the opposing coaches shall take part in a battle royale joust match"

I figure if it comes to this we are in cause Cappello is a poof, Houllier could take him even under 100% health.

[mercury]

Can I opt for Thommo for this?  

Here're also some gem of quotes from him (Soccernet):

****

Thompson brushed aside criticism from the press and some Barca players on Wednesday, after his side had created the better chances in the first half and then concentrated on defence after the break.

"That sort of criticism is a motivation to the players," said Thompson, who is running the Liverpool show while French coach Gerard Houllier recovers from major heart surgery.

"No one likes to be criticised, especially by some players who will be spending the summer in Disneyland and not in Japan.

"I must apologise to the Barcelona players and the Spanish media for us creating chances. I know we're not supposed to."



Though we clearly were not at our best in NouCamp we show our spine.  And a draw in Barca is by no means a bad result.  Good job, lads!

[LFC_4_EVA]

But if gala win and we win 1-0, then us and roma are on 7 points with barca on 8, then we go out on goal difference.

If we win 1-0 and barca win, then we'll be in the same position as above, but with barca topping the group

[laddo]

But if gala win and we win 1-0, then us and roma are on 7 points with barca on 8, then we go out on goal difference.

If we win 1-0 and barca win, then we'll be in the same position as above, but with barca topping the group

it doesnt go on goal difference it goes on results between the two sides previously.

A win by two clear goals will put Liverpool through no matter what
A win by any margin will only suffice if the Barca-Gala match isn't a draw
No win will mean the Reds are out!

[Wilbur]

Hilarious Thommo quotes, Mercury!