Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[Shankly998]

Are you aware of the demographic population profile in India compared to the US? The much young population is one of the reasons some people were confounded by how low the mortality rate was there in the first wave.

Btw India has now administered over 100 million vaccines and its now available to all those over 45. So that negates your point about the opportunity cost in India with regard to more at risk elderly members of Indias population.

As mentioned, the argument in favour of vaccinating the young in US over exporting the doses comes from modelling the infections that would be drastically reduced (and thus, the risk of variants) if the proportion of the population that is vaccine protected gets closer to 100%

India was just a generic example for developing countries that are further behind in the vaccination programme rather than a specific example. So yes while their populations skew younger there's still a heck of lot of OAPs in those countries who should be way ahead in the queue than a healthy 15 year old in the states.

[classycarra]

India was just a generic example for developing countries that are further behind in the vaccination programme rather than a specific example. So yes while their populations skew younger there's still a heck of lot of OAPs in those countries who should be way ahead in the queue than a healthy 15 year old in the states.

So you say but you haven't really made a point for why. just that it 'should' be.

Your point on ethics alone isn't compelling, given protecting kids protects the rest of the population.

Any vaccination programme started while the virus is spreading with high incidence is inherent with risk. There were 65,000 new cases of covid in the US recorded yesterday. The sooner the whole population is protected, the better. The longer it takes, the greater the risk of the positives from the programme being undone through variation of the virus.

You also miss out that real-world data from the US rolling out the vaccine to younger children will also be doing a net public good for the world.

All I mean to say is that its a million times more complicated than your ethics argument implies, and that its not as clear cut as you suggest.

[rob1966]

This report is seriously concerning me, the Government is still not listening to the scientists and it will have dire consequences if they continue with the re-openings in the hotspots. Why is there no basic common sense used? 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/10/virus-hotspots-could-lead-to-third-covid-wave-in-uk-scientists-warn

Its the same dickheads over and over again too. The worst boroughs in Gtr Manchester are the exact same ones that cause GM to get shoved back into lockdown last July. Me, I'd just ring the fuckers with the Army and force them to stay inside until the rates had dropped, shooting any fucker who so much as stepped near the perimeter.

[Shankly998]

So you say but you haven't really made a point for why. just that it 'should' be.

Your point on ethics alone isn't compelling, given protecting kids protects the rest of the population.

Any vaccination programme started while the virus is spreading with high incidence is inherent with risk. There were 65,000 new cases of covid in the US recorded yesterday. The sooner the whole population is protected, the better. The longer it takes, the greater the risk of the positives from the programme being undone through variation of the virus.

You also miss out that real-world data from the US rolling out the vaccine to younger children will also be doing a net public good for the world.

All I mean to say is that its a million times more complicated than your ethics argument implies, and that its not as clear cut as you suggest.

You're considering hypotheticals more than actuals while the virus could mutate to become more dangerous it could also mutate to become less dangerous. The current situation based on the facts today is that the virus which exists at present is much more dangerous the older you get and hence why from ethical standpoint you should vaccinate an elderly person who has not yet been offered a jab rather than a youngster not yet offered a jab given the greater risk of death in the former.

The spread of the virus will be higher in countries which are more unvaccinated (though hidden more due to lack of testing resources vs developed nations) as well given we know vaccines now reduce transmission the impact on reducing transmission and thus ability to mutate would arguably be greater in countries that are further behind than in a country further ahead with vaccination where transmission rates are likely to be lower.

[classycarra]

You're considering hypotheticals more than actuals while the virus could mutate to become more dangerous it could also mutate to become less dangerous. The current situation based on the facts today is that the virus which exists at present is much more dangerous the older you get and hence why from ethical standpoint you should vaccinate an elderly person who has not yet been offered a jab rather than a youngster not yet offered a jab given the greater risk of death in the former.

The spread of the virus will be higher in countries which are more unvaccinated (though hidden more due to lack of testing resources vs developed nations) as well given we know vaccines now reduce transmission the impact on reducing transmission and thus ability to mutate would arguably be greater in countries that are further behind than in a country further ahead with vaccination where transmission rates are likely to be lower.

Sorry but your second paragraph is exactly my point. It might seem logicial and intuitive, like a truism, but it's fundamentally faulty.

Take Australia for example. Or Hong Kong. Or Taiwan. They are countries that are "more unvaccinated" than the US, however unlike your claim spread of the virus is not higher there than in the US.

It's in high transmission in the US, so it's important (for everyone's health, including the elderly, more than for 15 year old's health) that vaccine coverage increases as close to 100% (from age 12 upwards) as rapidly as possible.

[Shankly998]

Sorry but your second paragraph is exactly my point. It might seem logicial and intuitive, like a truism, but it's fundamentally faulty.

Take Australia for example. Or Hong Kong. Or Taiwan. They are countries that are "more unvaccinated" than the US, however unlike your claim spread of the virus is not higher there than in the US.

It's in high transmission in the US, so it's important (for everyone's health, including the elderly, more than for 15 year old's health) that vaccine coverage increases as close to 100% (from age 12 upwards) as rapidly as possible.

Yes but they're developed countries who have been able to cope well and will be ahead in the queue for vaccinations anyway my point was around developing countries specifically.

[classycarra]

Yes but they're developed countries who have been able to cope well and will be ahead in the queue for vaccinations anyway my point was around developing countries specifically.

Phillipines, Thailand, Vietnam. Same applies, it is incorrect to assume those countries with less of their population vaccinated have higher rates of infection as you did.

But since you bring "they coped well into it", you make another case for enhancing the vaccine coverage of the US population since they've evidently not "coped well" with over half a million of their residents having died.

[Commie Bobbie]

Going to be difficult for the government to essentially block areas coming out of lockdown, even though releasing area by area is the right thing to do.

Same mistake as they made last July. Treating the country as one, when the virus is doing anything but that.

[Shankly998]

Phillipines, Thailand, Vietnam. Same applies, it is incorrect to assume those countries with less of their population vaccinated have higher rates of infection as you did.

But since you bring "they coped well into it", you make another case for enhancing the vaccine coverage of the US population since they've evidently not "coped well" with over half a million of their residents having died.

There are plenty of developing countries that haven't coped well and are behind in vaccinating in no way should kids in the US be a priority vs older adults in places like Mexico and Brazil. There's another argument as to whether you should even vaccinate kids at all given what transmission rates may be like once all adults have been second dosed but i'll avoid that for now.

[classycarra]

There are plenty of developing countries that haven't coped well and are behind in vaccinating in no way should kids in the US be a priority vs older adults in places like Mexico and Brazil.

Indeed. But with each post you move further and further away from the point of discussion, and move the goalpost on from your previous statements that have been proven wrong. And you have yet to offer anything more compelling than just repeating your point, without backing it up at all. You just don't seem to believe in, or potentially understand, the concept of protecting 'the herd' by vaccinating healthy people.

Not really much point engaging further.

[Shankly998]

Indeed. But with each post you move further and further away from the point of discussion, and move the goalpost on from your previous statements that have been proven wrong. And you have yet to offer anything more compelling than just repeating your point, without backing it up at all. You just don't seem to believe in, or potentially understand, the concept of protecting 'the herd' by vaccinating healthy people.

Not really much point engaging further.

My position has never shifted from wanting to vaccinate at risk groups in the developing world before teenagers in countries such as the USA.

[TepidT2O]

Remember the surprising lack of cases in India...

Seems not to be the case any longer... quite worrying..

[John Higgins]

I’m fairly well versed on the trends and patterns in cases around the world and India has me completely flummoxed. Their restrictions have broadly been unchanged since July last year when they eased a strict lockdown. Wfh where possible and not a lot else. Loads thought they’d reached some kind of herd immunity threshold in certain areas. If that was the case then the current surge shouldn’t be as fast as it is, even if they have a couple of more transmissible variants floating round which they do.

It’s as though those of us who really feared for India last year, didn’t materialise anyway near as bad as we thought, are now sadly having their fears realised. I don’t understand their curve at all.

[Shankly998]

I’m fairly well versed on the trends and patterns in cases around the world and India has me completely flummoxed. Their restrictions have broadly been unchanged since July last year when they eased a strict lockdown. Wfh where possible and not a lot else. Loads thought they’d reached some kind of herd immunity threshold in certain areas. If that was the case then the current surge shouldn’t be as fast as it is, even if they have a couple of more transmissible variants floating round which they do.

It’s as though those of us who really feared for India last year, didn’t materialise anyway near as bad as we thought, are now sadly having their fears realised. I don’t understand their curve at all.

It could be more transmissible variants or that India is managing to test more having previously lacked the resources to do so vs developed countries but that's just speculation be interesting what India based posters say.

[redbyrdz]

Wonder if there's something like a "critical mass" or another factor in the transmission equation that has to be met before it takes off like that.

In a way, we have seen similar things before - Germany, Greece, and Portugal for example didn't have much of a first wave. We thought they must have done a good job in containing the virus, but whatever they did then, didn't help them much when the second wave hit. On the other hand, Italy had a devastating first wave - we thought it was because nobody knew what was hapening, but in a way it is still surprising because they must have started with very few cases. Maybe there is something extra we could see in the modelling.

[Wabaloolah]

The wife's best mate and her husband have tested positive, bad headaches and flu like symptoms are what they are experiencing. Hubby had his first shot of AZ about 6 weeks ago and she had her first Pfizer the same day I had mine, which will be two weeks this coming Tuesday.

He works in a warehouse so it is thought he picked it up in work as she has been WFH throughout.

Fingers crossed their symptoms don't get worse

[filopastry]

[west_london_red]

I’m fairly well versed on the trends and patterns in cases around the world and India has me completely flummoxed. Their restrictions have broadly been unchanged since July last year when they eased a strict lockdown. Wfh where possible and not a lot else. Loads thought they’d reached some kind of herd immunity threshold in certain areas. If that was the case then the current surge shouldn’t be as fast as it is, even if they have a couple of more transmissible variants floating round which they do.

It’s as though those of us who really feared for India last year, didn’t materialise anyway near as bad as we thought, are now sadly having their fears realised. I don’t understand their curve at all.

Yeah, what’s going on there is very concerning. There’s been a lot of talk around the double mutation in Maharashtra so not sure if that’s caused cases to rocket there, the UK variant has also apparently taken hold in Punjab where my family is from, the Kumbh Mela took place and that’s about 10 million people deciding to take a collective dip in water that isn’t particularly clean to begin with, the Hindu festival of Holi was about 2 weeks ago, and I think celebrated like normal, but as with most things Covid related complacency seems to be the biggest enemy.

[TepidT2O]

Pretty sure the U.K. variant is becoming the dominant variant (can’t remember where I read that though).

And that of course means exponential growth if unchecked.

[Zeb]

Second jab booked in for Tuesday. Just under 8 weeks since first for me being in their category six.

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Wonder if there's something like a "critical mass" or another factor in the transmission equation that has to be met before it takes off like that.

In a way, we have seen similar things before - Germany, Greece, and Portugal for example didn't have much of a first wave. We thought they must have done a good job in containing the virus, but whatever they did then, didn't help them much when the second wave hit. On the other hand, Italy had a devastating first wave - we thought it was because nobody knew what was hapening, but in a way it is still surprising because they must have started with very few cases. Maybe there is something extra we could see in the modelling.

Think Adam Kucharski has written a bit about it if you've time to trawl through his subtweeting on twitter over the past year. Essentially that you could have two near identical starting scenarios but have two drastically different end points. He linked it to the role of 'superspreaders' at the individual level and then whether it was possible (or even worth) trying to model their role because there's a point which comes quickly where it's no longer about them.

[Thepooloflife]

Second jab booked in for Tuesday. Just under 8 weeks since first for me being in their category six.

---

Well done Zeb - just wondering, did they notify you or did you just book that yourself ? My first jab was just over 8 weeks ago, but not heard anything about a date for the second yet.

[west_london_red]

Well done Zeb - just wondering, did they notify you or did you just book that yourself ? My first jab was just over 8 weeks ago, but not heard anything about a date for the second yet.

Same thing happened to my dad, just go on to the booking website and fill in your details and it will allow you to book your second dose. At some point it seems to have changed because when I booked my first appointment I had to book a second at the same time, but some people in the first few groups didn’t seem to have to do the same.

[Thepooloflife]

Same thing happened to my dad, just go on to the booking website and fill in your details and it will allow you to book your second dose. At some point it seems to have changed because when I booked my first appointment I had to book a second at the same time, but some people in the first few groups didn’t seem to have to do the same.

Ok, thanks. Didn't use the booking site, I just phoned the GP surgery to get the first but they never gave me a date for the second when I was there.

[Zeb]

For me, I got a text message via my GP's surgery with a link where I could choose between three venues close to where I live to book a slot. Exactly the same as first time but for having two more choices of where to go. I chose the one with the bar, in the vain hope it'll be open on the day...

[Thepooloflife]

For me, I got a text message via my GP's surgery with a link where I could choose between three venues close to where I live to book a slot. Exactly the same as first time but for having two more choices of where to go. I chose the one with the bar, in the vain hope it'll be open on the day...

   nice ! I might phone the surgery this week to see what the score is.

[west_london_red]

For me, I got a text message via my GP's surgery with a link where I could choose between three venues close to where I live to book a slot. Exactly the same as first time but for having two more choices of where to go. I chose the one with the bar, in the vain hope it'll be open on the day...

It seems to change.

I got a message from the NHS rather then my GP with the link, put in my name, DoB, postcode, said I didn’t need any special arrangements or access (toilets, disabled access etc) and had a choice of about 20 places to chose from and date options, and then had to do the same for my second dose at the same time.

[classycarra]

   nice ! I might phone the surgery this week to see what the score is.

Good luck, but I doubt they'll have an alcohol license

[Zeb]

It seems to change.

I got a message from the NHS rather then my GP with the link, put in my name, DoB, postcode, said I didn’t need any special arrangements or access (toilets, disabled access etc) and had a choice of about 20 places to chose from and date options, and then had to do the same for my second dose at the same time.

Yeah, sure someone (Gus?) said it was down to which of one of the systems is being used to handle your details. Only detail I needed to fill in was date of birth and all three venues are within walking distance rather than being allocated to the big centres they've got going (eg at the Etihad).

(Just on the bar part, I doubt they'd open bar even if they could because it might present an easily avoidable hurdle to someone getting their jab given demographics of area. So it'll be a home delivery for when I get back I suspect.)

Lot of scams about so if anyone is unsure about one saying it's from their GP or on behalf their GP, the link in the text message I got starts: accurx.thirdparty.nhs.uk/

[Juan Kerr]

I got my first jab yesterday, when i booked it on thurs night it automatically booked my 2nd dose for 20th of June.
I'm in N.I tho so maybe its different over here.

[redbyrdz]

Second jab booked in for Tuesday. Just under 8 weeks since first for me being in their category six.

---

Think Adam Kucharski has written a bit about it if you've time to trawl through his subtweeting on twitter over the past year. Essentially that you could have two near identical starting scenarios but have two drastically different end points. He linked it to the role of 'superspreaders' at the individual level and then whether it was possible (or even worth) trying to model their role because there's a point which comes quickly where it's no longer about them.

Ta. Yeah I can't do the maths for it at all, but that rings a bell - sort of like a butterfly effect. The transmission system is highly complex and even small changes is behaviour can have a big influence on the outcome.

[Thepooloflife]

Good luck, but I doubt they'll have an alcohol license

Cheers - yeah, that's a shame.....they could've called it The Vaccinated Arms

[Red-Dread]

The wife's best mate and her husband have tested positive, bad headaches and flu like symptoms are what they are experiencing. Hubby had his first shot of AZ about 6 weeks ago and she had her first Pfizer the same day I had mine, which will be two weeks this coming Tuesday.

He works in a warehouse so it is thought he picked it up in work as she has been WFH throughout.

Fingers crossed their symptoms don't get worse

must be dispiriting to have even a semi-nasty infection weeks after getting vaccinated, hopefully this is as bad as it gets for them

[AndyMuller]

Town was meant to be rammed this morning. People queuing up for Primark at 6:30am. We are going to head back into another lockdown aren’t we?

[Bincey]

Hopefully this kind of set up isn't common...

https://twitter.com/LBCNews/status/1381508808531456002

[Thepooloflife]

Hopefully this kind of set up isn't common...

https://twitter.com/LBCNews/status/1381508808531456002

How can that be classed as outdoors ffs !

[stewy17]

I know everyone's nervous and when I saw them Primark photos (and that boozer in Coventry) I had the same thoughts but I drove past a Costco by me yesterday and the queue was fucking massive, all around the car park. I went to a big Tesco yesterday and it was fucking rammed and massive queues there too.

Why is Primark different? Or why is that more likely to cause a third wave? The shops do have to open again, don't they?

All that being said, I couldn't agree more on the insanity of queuing for a 99p pair of undies at 6:30am during a pandemic or even heading the boozer in the snow at midnight on a Sunday but this is the glory of England. The majority of people think the Prime Minister, Queen and England manager are great, on the whole the country doesn't make great decisions.

[CraigDS]

Hopefully this kind of set up isn't common...

https://twitter.com/LBCNews/status/1381508808531456002

That's ridiculous.

Isn't it 50% of the walls have to be removed for it to be classed as "outdoor"?

[The G in Gerrard]

Hopefully this kind of set up isn't common...

https://twitter.com/LBCNews/status/1381508808531456002

People don't help themselves really do they.

[Wabaloolah]

I might be one of the rare exceptions but I haven't missed the shops being closed at all!  Why anyone in their right mind would want to stand in a queue at 6:30am to go to Primark is I'm afraid beyond me, looking at some of the pictures of people queuing the age make up probably means that the vast majority haven't been vaccinated!  Idiots everywhere I suppose....

[Wabaloolah]

People don't help themselves really do they.

It's madness, I get they've been shut for the best part of 4 months but I don't see how that is classed as outdoors, it looks like some sort of enclosed gazebo has been built to house them which you would assume to be against the rules.  Most of the people there are under 30 too so most of them won't have been vaccinated.  Incoming third wave beckons if this is the rule not the exception!