Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!

[Red-Soldier]

The UK is absolutely screwed!

[TSC]

1%. 1 fucking %.

Nadine Dorries said “that is all we can afford”. 

Proper trolling after the billions chucked at Dido and various other fiascos.  Corruption has no upper limits it appears.

[rob1966]

The only greens you will see in Scotland ...

Unless they're fried

[rob1966]

1%. 1 fucking %.

Naomi Klein spot on, power really does profit from public disorientation.  The overwhelming majority are so all over the place, awestruck at the government actually implementing something that seemingly works in the vaccination program, that they've emboldened these fuckers, 13 points ahead in polls, they can do whatever they bloody like now.

This conservative government have always been a nasty bunch of bastards, but this, after what the NHS have just been through (and continue to go through) is the biggest insult of all.

More agency staff from abroad, recruited by companies owned by Tories. pay them low, charge the NHS high.

[Zeb]

Budget turning sour even faster than expected. Still to come is when the bulk of those who'll be worse off realise it.

Royal College of Nursing.



Via ITV's Paul Brand (https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1367799799290925060)

[Welshred]

Good to see the RCN taking a stand, I doubt the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy will even think about joining them though

[Red Viper]

The insulting 1% pay rise proposed is another gift from this comically bad Tory government but once again Labour don't seem to have any interest in converting it. Pathetic

[Zeb]

The insulting 1% pay rise proposed is another gift from this comically bad Tory government but once again Labour don't seem to have any interest in converting it. Pathetic

Starmer raised it in his response. It's been the main theme of every Labour MP on social media, with couple of exceptions for those who are very disability focused who went with that. It's co-ordinated. Maybe it's just not in the news you're consuming?

[Red Viper]

Starmer raised it in his response. It's been the main theme of every Labour MP on social media, with couple of exceptions for those who are very disability focused who went with that. It's co-ordinated. Maybe it's just not in the news you're consuming?

All I've seen is a 7 word tweet from Starmer that reads like he was being held at gun point and just wrote the absolute bare minimum he could get away with

[Welshred]

All I've seen is a 7 word tweet from Starmer that reads like he was being held at gun point and just wrote the absolute bare minimum he could get away with

Then you've not looked deep enough. There's been 4 tweets from him regarding pay rises and budget cuts to the NHS, plus his budget response and his media responses to the 1% pay rise plus the coordinated limes from other Labour MP's

[Zeb]

All I've seen is a 7 word tweet from Starmer that reads like he was being held at gun point and just wrote the absolute bare minimum he could get away with

Sky: https://news.sky.com/story/recommended-1-pay-rise-for-nhs-staff-labelled-pitiful-by-nursing-union-12235986
BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56289955

Papers have been covering it too. Ashworth was talking about it before the budget: https://www.itv.com/news/2021-02-26/denying-nhs-staff-pay-rise-in-budget-kick-in-the-teeth-says-labour

[OOS]

May well go higher as lockdown lifted. On the other hand, Labour were well ahead during the financial crisis and then that collapsed afterwards as the story switched from 'Gordon Brown organising the world response' to 'Labour spent all the money'. So it goes. Can already see the outlines of how Starmer hopes to change the story, focus on being unprepared and effects of austerity, so see whether that works or not. Tedious few months ahead regardless.

Just got to grin and bear for a while. Starmer has been solid enough, stopped the rot. His personal ratings are ahead of the party, which is a massive improvement over the last few years. The pandemic has kept almost all other politics off the agenda and displaced Labour from the airwaves. Hes been relegated to zoom speaking and not leaving the house, while the government have been our tellys nearly every day setting the agenda. The Tories have delivered Brexit, the country have rallied around the government during this unprecedented time. Sunak has proposed a very political budget, we will just have to see how good the recovery will be. We got stuffed only a year ago, it was always going to be tricky way back. GE is three years away, not next week.

[Felch Aid]

Just got to grin and bear for a while. Starmer has been solid enough, stopped the rot. His personal ratings are ahead of the party, which is a massive improvement over the last few years. The pandemic has kept almost all other politics off the agenda and displaced Labour from the airwaves. Hes been relegated to zoom speaking and not leaving the house, while the government have been our tellys nearly every day setting the agenda. The Tories have delivered Brexit, the country have rallied around the government during this unprecedented time. Sunak has proposed a very political budget, we will just have to see how good the recovery will be. We got stuffed only a year ago, it was always going to be tricky way back. GE is three years away, not next week.

Tend to agree with this and Tory HQ wanted some good news before the local elections come May.

What the Tory propaganda is seemingly good at is persuading the gullible with the all in it together mantra. You can't argue or scrutinise them yet when they are furloughing and keeping most businesses afloat but then again they had no other option much like Labour had to with the banks.

Once the restrictions were lifted the feel good factor would kick in and the polls rise.

Starmer has steadied the ship and scrutinized where possible.

PMQ's have become pointless with Johnson just wafting it all away and no answering a single question but he's never going to change and will always hide from scrutiny.

Sunak has thrown money at everything dispelling the myth of the magic money tree. Again it's hard to be critical.

The next 18 months will be interesting because if growth doesn't pick up and the post Brexit headache kick in the country might struggle as it did in 2008. Part of me thinks the Tories will just saddle the country with more debt and ride it out until 2024 before they look at substantial tax changes.

Using a Van Tam analogy but the Tories may have scored  a bit too soon

[CornerFlag]

1)  1% is an absolute insult, and Nadine Dorries, as ever, can go fuck herself.  At least we clapped, eh?

2) 

3)  I... I just don't know any more, when I see a 13% bounce for the Tories over any other party I wonder just what in the fuck is the "other half" thinking?  I'm on the Wirral and genuinely wonder whether it's going to slip to a Tory majority in the local elections for the council.

[TSC]

Hancock draws short straw and is doing the briefing at 5pm.  Wonder if many journalists will raise the paltry pay increase.  Hancock no doubt will want to steer clear and stay on the vaccine bounce factor.

[Lee1-6Liv]

BBC Radio 2 news playing a clip of a nurse saying she is grateful to have a job and it is too soon to be asking for a pay rise, where do they dig these people out from.

[reddebs]

Why do we need a daily briefing still, we never had them pre pandemic?  Any important news was relayed in the regular evenings news broadcasts and if necessary an interview with whichever government minister needed questioning.

Maybe if we get their ugly mugs off our screen for a few days people will stop thinking they're some type of celebrity worthy of deifying.

[Red-Soldier]

1)  1% is an absolute insult, and Nadine Dorries, as ever, can go fuck herself.  At least we clapped, eh?

2) 

3)  I... I just don't know any more, when I see a 13% bounce for the Tories over any other party I wonder just what in the fuck is the "other half" thinking?  I'm on the Wirral and genuinely wonder whether it's going to slip to a Tory majority in the local elections for the council.

This is one of the reasons why the country is permanently screwed.

Corbyn and Brexit have destroyed any hope for an alternative government in this country, not to mention the shitfest that is FPTP.

[Zeb]

Just got to grin and bear for a while. Starmer has been solid enough, stopped the rot. His personal ratings are ahead of the party, which is a massive improvement over the last few years. The pandemic has kept almost all other politics off the agenda and displaced Labour from the airwaves. Hes been relegated to zoom speaking and not leaving the house, while the government have been our tellys nearly every day setting the agenda. The Tories have delivered Brexit, the country have rallied around the government during this unprecedented time. Sunak has proposed a very political budget, we will just have to see how good the recovery will be. We got stuffed only a year ago, it was always going to be tricky way back. GE is three years away, not next week.

Like you say, some of the fundamental changes remain. Other part to recent polling is we're seeing different groups of voters moving to and from 'don't know' which exaggerates the Tory lead but also illustrates one of your other points there because they're the voters Starmer could really use pulling from Tory to Don't Know to Labour to establish a lead rather than see those he has persuaded he'd do a job in charge shift back to 'don't know' for voting for Labour.

Other way I look at it is I'd rather see the Tories up on the back of listening to good advice from experts and all the public bodies involved making the vaccination campaign success a than the reverse. Will Jennings (does the behind the scenes election stuff for Sky as well as a lot of other stuff) made the point most people aren't currently looking to blame the government for all the deaths (see also excess deaths under austerity) and wanted to trust their government to act in their best interest in life and death stuff. Not just a uniquely British thing.

See now whether Starmer, and the Labour party as a whole, can set a narrative in the way Cameron/Osborne did, isn't it? There's a strong moral case there, one of fairness, which might work.

[CornerFlag]

BBC Radio 2 news playing a clip of a nurse saying she is grateful to have a job and it is too soon to be asking for a pay rise, where do they dig these people out from.

I know the BBC have always pushed the idea of balance, but it's right up there with when they have a climate change expert with PhDs coming out of their arse, and Geoff in Sheffield who watched a Piers Corbyn or James Delingpole video and wrote a "scathing" YouTube comment once.  Get a decent sample and not just shitty vox pops.

Love me a bit of BBC, but this DG of theirs seems a toolbag.

[jonnypb]

BBC Radio 2 news playing a clip of a nurse saying she is grateful to have a job and it is too soon to be asking for a pay rise, where do they dig these people out from.

Everyone in the NHS deserves a pay rise, as do all the key workers for all the work that they've done during Covid.

I've heard both these arguments many times, personally I think NHS staff are priceless and way under paid, just like any of our front line troops that have been sent out to war torn country to fight and risk their lives.

I have family members who work for the NHS and one who works on ITU with Covid patients.  There's a real split amongst the staff in the hospital that they work, some say they should be given a rise (rightly so) and many who are just humble and grateful that they have a job during this pandemic.  They've seen other friends lose jobs, businesses go under etc and that put's things into perspective - although none of that excuses the government for under paying NHS workers.

[Elmo!]

Oh dear.... I will expect Douglas Ross to be submitting a motion for VONC shortly.

Good Law Project
@GoodLawProject
·
1h
BREAKING: new Court Order handed down in last hour shows Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson misled Parliament over Covid contracts.

You can read the Court Order and consequential judgment in full here.

[Crumble]

Using a Van Tam analogy but the Tories may have scored  a bit too soon

Once they've abolished the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, the Tories could easily go to the country in 2022. This will be while they are on a post-COVID high but before all the austerity kicks in. This might leave Starmer's Labour stuck back on the half-way line unledd they can make some progress very soon.

[Nobby Reserve]

Hancock draws short straw and is doing the briefing at 5pm.  Wonder if many journalists will raise the paltry pay increase.  Hancock no doubt will want to steer clear and stay on the vaccine bounce factor.

Kuenssberg and Peston will steer clear, that's for certain

[Nobby Reserve]

More corruption with the Towns Fund

@ne_al_
merseyside election results in 2017 and 2019. guess the only area to get funding from the towns fund?
11:11 am · 4 Mar 2021·Twitter Web App





https://twitter.com/ne_al_/status/1367432497789882373

[filopastry]

Once they've abolished the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, the Tories could easily go to the country in 2022. This will be while they are on a post-COVID high but before all the austerity kicks in. This might leave Starmer's Labour stuck back on the half-way line unledd they can make some progress very soon.

They're already in such a strong position in Parliament though that it would be a massive gamble, would really only be justifiable if they think the economy is going to turn awfully bad.

The one silver lining for Labour is that while the quicker rollout of the vaccine is making the Tories look great (and they took some genuine gambles with that, that appear to have paid off), a quicker rollout also means the vaccine story won't dominate the news for as long as it otherwise might. It's going to be a tough 6 months or so for the opposition parties though at least.

[B0151?]

Post-Covid high in 2022 also assumes that things are going to go swimmingly back to normal on their schedule instead of dragging on

I very much hope that's the case like but it's certainly not a given

[Zeb]

Be fascinating to see how this turns out but government are being taken to court to test whether they can lawfully discriminate against those on legacy benefits with the Universal Credit uplift. Subtext to it is discrimination against disabled people unable to work because they are unable to work. Sunak said as much without realising it on the telly to Martyn Lewis last night.

[cornishscouser92]

What's the consensus on Sir Keir Starmer as the leader of the Labour party?

[Welshred]

What's the consensus on Sir Keir Starmer as the leader of the Labour party?

Go back about 10 pages and start from there so we don't have to go through it all again

[Jshooters]

Go back about 10 pages and start from there so we don't have to go through it all again

I don’t want to be the instigator of a pile on as I’m largely behind him so far but if he can’t absolutely eviscerate Johnson at PMQs, to the point where it’s front page news the next day, over the insulting NHS payrise then what’s the point

[cornishscouser92]

Pathetic electoral performance from Labour excluding Blair.

[Red-Soldier]

Pathetic electoral performance from Labour excluding Blair.

Yep.  Labour have been poor quite often.  Corbyn and Brexit (both are linked), being the lowest point for nearly 100 years!

However, the Tories have nailed the Divide and Conquer mantra perfectly!

An unfit, undemocratic electoral system (FPTP) + 50% of the country being ignorant morons = a perpetual Tory government.

The Tories got an almost identical vote share as Labour and the Lib Dems combined, yet they walked away with an 80 seat majority.

[Indomitable_Carp]

And that is why removing FPTP should be a top priority for any future Labour government. Problem is that any scent of the possibility of governing with a majority quickly sees any semblance of long term political expediency and rationality thrown out of the window in favour of the short term.

And despite Labours ultimately abysmal electoral record, they continue to act as if they don´t have to work with other parties as only they can achieve a majority.

And this goes for all Labour leaders. Not even Corbyn despite all his talk of wanting to meaningfully reform the state. Imagine how things might have been if Labour had supported Lib Dem efforts to achieve a referendum on PR back in 2010, rather then that shitty halfway house AV which was a referendum set up to fail (fuck I hate how good Tories are at scumbag self-serving politics).

Hell we might have even been looking at a Lib Dem-Labour coalition if they had been willing to sell that. And how different history might have been in this country if they did. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that. But I was absolutely pushing for that at the time. Fuck I would have even supported the Lib Dem-Tory coalition if the Lib Dems could have got that one through - knowing we would never have seen a Tory majority ever again.

[TSC]

Important that the latest freeze on public sector pay and pathetic 1% for NHS is viewed in the context of years of freezes through Cameron’s ‘austerity’ ideology.

Meanwhile Bbc news reports that following a freedom of info request, it’s been revealed the cost of works for Downing Street is c. £2.6m. This is for preparing number 9 for Johnson’s vanity ‘presidential style’ press briefings.

That comes on top of the six figure cost of redecorating Johnson’s living quarters apparently carried out by Carrie Symonds.  Johnson apparently ‘fears’ the cost may hit £200k.  Clearly a bit more than a paint job.

Johnson mustn’t have read Hancock’s ‘affordability’ script.

[Welshred]

Pathetic electoral performance from Labour excluding Blair.

Yet you still have Labour MP's such as Zarah Sultana who will quite happily tell you that Blair's government was a Tory government.

I've said this on here before and to friends but we live in a predominantly Tory/Conservative country and straying too far to the left just turns voters away. Having a socialist ideology is great but it's one that will never get voted into power in this country.

[TSC]

I've said this on here before and to friends but we live in a predominantly Tory/Conservative country and straying too far to the left just turns voters away. Having a socialist ideology is great but it's one that will never get voted into power in this country.

And arguably as per Brexit a fair few with a ‘nationalism’ viewpoint. That’s generalising of course.  I,e there may be some Labour voters with same and some Tories absent that viewpoint.

[Zeb]

This is the current electorate (averaged obviously).

Spoiler

(Paula Surridge, using BES data, https://ukandeu.ac.uk/are-there-value-divides-among-the-british-electorate/ )

Can split on educations for fun.




Or you can even split by political activity...




Argument goes that you can be fairly left wing in your approach - look at how the SNP have rebranded themselves to fill the spaces where Labour used to be in Scotland - but as soon as you go toddling off chasing down towards the bottom left corner then your appeal is reduced to a very small part of the electorate. (Typically green/red in politics, university graduates, liberal, lives mainly in cities yada yada.)

[close]

[Indomitable_Carp]

Interesting just how clear cut the Education-Social Liberalism correlation is. I would have thought that might decrease between Undergraduate and Postgraduate level, but it actually shows an even bigger jump.

Earnings is to be expected I guess, but again a very clear correlation.

Also interesting that Labour MPs come out even further then the Labour membership on the social liberal axis.

[Welshred]

I find it really difficult to reconcile graphs like that when the Tories keep getting voted into power.