Topic: The 'Eeeek...buying/saving for a house' thread

[rob1966]

I really don't see why people use estate agents these days, they're a link in the chain that isn't needed as far as I can tell. I remember a fella on here years ago saying he just stuck a sign in the garden, then when he had a firm offer, instructed solicitors himself. Surely with the way the Internet is now, they can be fucked off?

[killer-heels]

I really don't see why people use estate agents these days, they're a link in the chain that isn't needed as far as I can tell. I remember a fella on here years ago saying he just stuck a sign in the garden, then when he had a firm offer, instructed solicitors himself. Surely with the way the Internet is now, they can be fucked off?

They still provide a decent service in the whole marketing of a property and handling bookings and viewings. A lot of times sellers don't want to be in direct contact and have much interaction from buyers so they are a decent intermediary.

Also when you put something on sale you will generally get a lot of calls and most people don't want that hassle.

Where they really take the piss is things like organizing proof of purchase and all that stuff down the line.

[rob1966]

They still provide a decent service in the whole marketing of a property and handling bookings and viewings. A lot of times sellers don't want to be in direct contact and have much interaction from buyers so they are a decent intermediary.

Also when you put something on sale you will generally get a lot of calls and most people don't want that hassle.

Where they really take the piss is things like organizing proof of purchase and all that stuff down the line.

We've been going on long walks during the lockdowns and then going on rightmove to have a nosey at houses up for sale, so I was thinking that with online viewings being a big thing now, a lot of people will be decided from that whether they want to actually look at a house and you're only going to get a serious buyer actually coming to the house.

[CraigDS]

They still provide a decent service in the whole marketing of a property and handling bookings and viewings.

Half the pictures and descriptions I see of houses are fucking awful, and the viewings tend to be some 3rd party they employ who simply open the door and know fuck all about the property and just tell you that you're best contacting the office.

A lot really are useless.

[Jake]

If Rightmove allowed people to put their own listings on, estate agency would die off massively.

[fowlermagic]

Not sure about that as more people than not still go to a car dealership to buy a car for 10k or more so when it comes to a 300k purchase / sale I think they will stick with the tried & trusted. People are typically too lazy to do the hard work even if it saves the $$$ as I see people getting their dogs walked, gardens cut, houses cleaned and painted. I dont see my neighbours suddenly holding the door open and walking around with potential buyers every weekend, after work every evening for a month and more. That would require effort.

[CraigDS]

Not sure about that as more people than not still go to a car dealership to buy a car for 10k or more so when it comes to a 300k purchase / sale I think they will stick with the tried & trusted.

Not really a great example. People go the dealership as they want to see the car up close before buying, I seriously doubt most go for the car salesman (which is often described as the worst bit of car buying).

People are typically too lazy to do the hard work even if it saves the $$$ as I see people getting their dogs walked, gardens cut, houses cleaned and painted. I dont see my neighbours suddenly holding the door open and walking around with potential buyers every weekend, after work every evening for a month and more. That would require effort.

When they figure it could sell their house quicker and save them thousands it may persuade them otherwise.

[Drinks Sangria]

Interesting debate in here - on the point about the London sales, I'm not surprised that's the way it operates down there but I'm in the North West and despite only having bought one house in the past, wasn't asked for nearly as much from the estate agent and no one I know (including parents who've moved loads in the past 20 years) have ever had to provide that amount of detail on themselves.

There should be a legal limit to what they can and can't ask for and as Craig says, the mortgage in principle is the proof. There's never been enough competition in the market up here for there to be a need for weekend view, Monday offers Tuesday acceptance etc so it was a bit startling to view the property on Saturday, be advised by a mate who's a very good IFA to bid without a second viewing and then be told to send best and finals in writing along with a shit tonne of other private info by 17:00 yesterday. No contact as of yet but I expect it to be closer to the end of the week. Probably doing all their grubby digging that they shouldn't be allowed to, off the back of them having loads of info on about 6 or 7 couples.

This situation and the general combo of thick/arrogant that I've come across with this estate agents makes me think selling privately is the best way to go. You can still ask for all the same proof. And I've seen a few houses round where we're looking and where we live stick up signs in their gardens themselves and then be sold within weeks.

[stewy17]

If Rightmove allowed people to put their own listings on, estate agency would die off massively.

Purple Bricks and Yopa allow you to, we've had a few where people are managing it themselves. Like others have said it's more about the convenience of not having to fuck about with diaries and all that and arrange viewings. I think I'd sell via these platforms if I was back home in Liverpool or somewhere outside of London but I absolutely could not be arsed doing the viewings and negotiations myself, and I negotiate for a living.

[stewy17]

Interesting debate in here - on the point about the London sales, I'm not surprised that's the way it operates down there but I'm in the North West and despite only having bought one house in the past, wasn't asked for nearly as much from the estate agent and no one I know (including parents who've moved loads in the past 20 years) have ever had to provide that amount of detail on themselves.

There should be a legal limit to what they can and can't ask for and as Craig says, the mortgage in principle is the proof. There's never been enough competition in the market up here for there to be a need for weekend view, Monday offers Tuesday acceptance etc so it was a bit startling to view the property on Saturday, be advised by a mate who's a very good IFA to bid without a second viewing and then be told to send best and finals in writing along with a shit tonne of other private info by 17:00 yesterday. No contact as of yet but I expect it to be closer to the end of the week. Probably doing all their grubby digging that they shouldn't be allowed to, off the back of them having loads of info on about 6 or 7 couples.

This situation and the general combo of thick/arrogant that I've come across with this estate agents makes me think selling privately is the best way to go. You can still ask for all the same proof. And I've seen a few houses round where we're looking and where we live stick up signs in their gardens themselves and then be sold within weeks.

Don't get me wrong, defo not sticking up for estate agents but after being down in London for a few years now it's just the norm so I guess I haven't even questioned it. Necessary evil.

It's all a fucking racket. Don't get me started on conveyancing solicitors!

[.adam]

The market where I live is a bit mad. The house nextdoor sold 18 months ago; they had twenty viewings over the weekend and then ten offers.

When we come to sell I'll be doing Purple Bricks fixed price sale (£600 I think it is) as the place will sell itself.

[rob1966]

The market where I live is a bit mad. The house nextdoor sold 18 months ago; they had twenty viewings over the weekend and then ten offers.

When we come to sell I'll be doing Purple Bricks fixed price sale (£600 I think it is) as the place will sell itself.

Its like that by ours, house goes up for sale and bang its gone.

Someone said something on here the other day about estate agents tipping off landlords, the lad who lived opposite me does property development and I'd swear a local estate agent tips him off, as he seems to be first in on nearly everything that needs a bit of work and gets them bought up.

[Claire.]

Interesting debate in here - on the point about the London sales, I'm not surprised that's the way it operates down there but I'm in the North West and despite only having bought one house in the past, wasn't asked for nearly as much from the estate agent and no one I know (including parents who've moved loads in the past 20 years) have ever had to provide that amount of detail on themselves.

There should be a legal limit to what they can and can't ask for and as Craig says, the mortgage in principle is the proof. There's never been enough competition in the market up here for there to be a need for weekend view, Monday offers Tuesday acceptance etc so it was a bit startling to view the property on Saturday, be advised by a mate who's a very good IFA to bid without a second viewing and then be told to send best and finals in writing along with a shit tonne of other private info by 17:00 yesterday. No contact as of yet but I expect it to be closer to the end of the week. Probably doing all their grubby digging that they shouldn't be allowed to, off the back of them having loads of info on about 6 or 7 couples.

This situation and the general combo of thick/arrogant that I've come across with this estate agents makes me think selling privately is the best way to go. You can still ask for all the same proof. And I've seen a few houses round where we're looking and where we live stick up signs in their gardens themselves and then be sold within weeks.

Just renting in London they want to know every detail of your life so it doesn't surprise me in the slightest they're the same with buying. When we bought we went through a mortgage broker and he did all negotiations and dealt with everything for us, only spoke to the agents on completion really.

I've not used it myself but the concept of that Boomin Matchmaker looks good, you could use to put the feelers out for a possible sale.

[fowlermagic]

Not really a great example. People go the dealership as they want to see the car up close before buying, I seriously doubt most go for the car salesman (which is often described as the worst bit of car buying).

When they figure it could sell their house quicker and save them thousands it may persuade them otherwise.

Well I did not say they go to the dealer to chat to a sales person as I think its the warranty that makes them go that route v buying as seen off the owner with no comeback.

Likewise with realtors as its the tried and trusted system but the next generation will surely go down the internet route more so I can see more people selling their own house.

[Slippers]

The market where I live is a bit mad. The house nextdoor sold 18 months ago; they had twenty viewings over the weekend and then ten offers.

When we come to sell I'll be doing Purple Bricks fixed price sale (£600 I think it is) as the place will sell itself.

Six houses in our half of the street have a 'sold' sign in their front garden,the only one that took more than two weeks to sell is a dump that took two years to shift the last time it was on the market.

[Riquende]

That would require effort.

You can say that about anything though. I get paid to provide IT support to people. Why aren't they putting in the effort to learn how to fix their own PC? It would save them money. Why does my job even exist when people can just put some effort in? Why does any job, when we could all be self-sufficient with more effort?

At some point, people value their time more than the amount of money they have to pay to get a job done, whether that's because of the knowledge, time, contacts or even just the sheer graft required to get it done effectively, efficiently or even at all. People's perceptions of where the balance between the two will vary based on multiple factors.

Personally I don't have a view on estate agents as I've only ever bought this house, not had to try and sell through one.

Edit - I will say I feel the same way as some of you about travel agents. Blows my mind that some people (especially 50+) still go and speak to someone to sort out their holidays. Admittedly I've only ever travelled in the internet era but it's not exactly difficult to book a flight and find a hotel yourself these days.

[Drinks Sangria]

Heard back from the estate agent earlier, we didn't get the house. They had a massive amount of interest and there was a 'much larger' bidder apparently. They've said they'll keep my offer on the table in case the successful bid falls through, which maybe suggests to me we were the second highest.

Disappointed, naturally and my girlfriend is really gutted because it would have been especially perfect for her location wise with work and family. We'll keep looking and maybe the other offer falls through. I'm not sure if it's the case or not, but being asked to keep our offer there just in case perhaps suggests we were the second highest bidder.

We'll keep looking.

[rob1966]

You can say that about anything though. I get paid to provide IT support to people. Why aren't they putting in the effort to learn how to fix their own PC? It would save them money. Why does my job even exist when people can just put some effort in? Why does any job, when we could all be self-sufficient with more effort?

At some point, people value their time more than the amount of money they have to pay to get a job done, whether that's because of the knowledge, time, contacts or even just the sheer graft required to get it done effectively, efficiently or even at all. People's perceptions of where the balance between the two will vary based on multiple factors.

Personally I don't have a view on estate agents as I've only ever bought this house, not had to try and sell through one.

Edit - I will say I feel the same way as some of you about travel agents. Blows my mind that some people (especially 50+) still go and speak to someone to sort out their holidays. Admittedly I've only ever travelled in the internet era but it's not exactly difficult to book a flight and find a hotel yourself these days.

We are getting more and more used to doing things ourselves without realising it a lot. Self serve tills in Asda, Amazon, Ebay, click and collect, it's all making us do someone elses job. I work for an national Tool Hire co FT, I'm a developer looking after the Branch systems. Due to the pandemic, we've closed 200 Branches as they found that we could get customers to serve themselves via the website. I can see the younger generation really embracing the option to do everything themselves.

My missus has used a travel agent in 2018, but that was because we were fighting a lot so she booked a holiday to Florida, normally I do it all online. Sometimes via an agent like Best at Travel, but mainly I'll go direct to the hotel and airline.

[reddebs]

Heard back from the estate agent earlier, we didn't get the house. They had a massive amount of interest and there was a 'much larger' bidder apparently. They've said they'll keep my offer on the table in case the successful bid falls through, which maybe suggests to me we were the second highest.

Disappointed, naturally and my girlfriend is really gutted because it would have been especially perfect for her location wise with work and family. We'll keep looking and maybe the other offer falls through. I'm not sure if it's the case or not, but being asked to keep our offer there just in case perhaps suggests we were the second highest bidder.

We'll keep looking.

How annoying mate but you never know, we thought we'd missed out on this place then saw it readvertised and got it after all.

[Riquende]

How annoying mate but you never know, we thought we'd missed out on this place then saw it readvertised and got it after all.

Yeah, it happens. I was dead set on my current place just going by pics, location etc but by the time I tried to sort out a viewing it was off the market, STC. Sent a link to the listing to my dad a few days later telling him to keep an eye out for anything similar. Must have gone back on the market that day as he contacted me back and said he'd already arranged a viewing ASAP - we saw the house that Saturday morning and I had my offer accepted by lunchtime.

[Drinks Sangria]

Yeah, it happens. I was dead set on my current place just going by pics, location etc but by the time I tried to sort out a viewing it was off the market, STC. Sent a link to the listing to my dad a few days later telling him to keep an eye out for anything similar. Must have gone back on the market that day as he contacted me back and said he'd already arranged a viewing ASAP - we saw the house that Saturday morning and I had my offer accepted by lunchtime.

Hopefully we get a bit of luck. The competition in our price bracket is fierce, you've got a wide age range and a lot of families or young couples wanting to start a family looking for similar houses within a small area.

How annoying mate but you never know, we thought we'd missed out on this place then saw it readvertised and got it after all.

Cheers mate, we will definitely keep our eyes peeled and at least we're on the same page with what we want and where we want it. We're lucky to have a reasonable budget, it's just we have no appetite to get ripped off.

[Slippers]

Hopefully we get a bit of luck. The competition in our price bracket is fierce, you've got a wide age range and a lot of families or young couples wanting to start a family looking for similar houses within a small area.
Cheers mate, we will definitely keep our eyes peeled and at least we're on the same page with what we want and where we want it. We're lucky to have a reasonable budget, it's just we have no appetite to get ripped off.

Competition seems to be fierce in every price bracket down here thanks to the amount of people wanting holiday homes.

I can't believe there are people willing to pay a quarter of a million for cottages that look like they need knocking down before they collapse.

[Drinks Sangria]

Competition seems to be fierce in every price bracket down here thanks to the amount of people wanting holiday homes.

I can't believe there are people willing to pay a quarter of a million for cottages that look like they need knocking down before they collapse.

It's the maddest I've ever known it. Was it this bad at the height of the market pre-2008 crash?

The house we were going for was bought by the current sellers in 2017 for £55,000 under what we offered. They did nothing to it whatsoever, and if anything, because they neglected the garden and let the paddock behind overgrow, it was in a worse state than when they bought it!

[rob1966]

Competition seems to be fierce in every price bracket down here thanks to the amount of people wanting holiday homes.

I can't believe there are people willing to pay a quarter of a million for cottages that look like they need knocking down before they collapse.

House prices in the UK are nuts.

In 1997, a relative of mine bought a 4 bedroom, 3 x ensuite detached house. Its 200yds from the electric entry gate to the house, there is parking for 6 cars, huge open front garden overlooking a lake, he owns 1/8 of the lake as it came with the house, huge back garden with an orchard with plum and apple trees, a sauna and heated swimming pool - paid £250k for it. Its now a £2.5 million house.

[CraigDS]

House prices in the UK are nuts.

In 1997, a relative of mine bought a 4 bedroom, 3 x ensuite detached house. Its 200yds from the electric entry gate to the house, there is parking for 6 cars, huge open front garden overlooking a lake, he owns 1/8 of the lake as it came with the house, huge back garden with an orchard with plum and apple trees, a sauna and heated swimming pool - paid £250k for it. Its now a £2.5 million house.

to be honest that's a lot of house for £250k even back in 1997. Can only guess the area was a bit iffy back then and it's become an "in" place to live now.

[Riquende]

£325 324k in 1997:



Presumably in the Norwich area.

[rob1966]

to be honest that's a lot of house for £250k even back in 1997. Can only guess the area was a bit iffy back then and it's become an "in" place to live now.

That's sort of my point, £250k was a lot for that house because it was huge, its what you expected people who are loaded to pay (although my uncle did pay £1million for theirs back then), but by 2005, 4 bed houses near ours in Southport that cost £78k were selling for £230k to £250k.

Ringwood in Hampshire, always a very very nice area, its just as the nutty housing market has gone up its gone mad.

[Slippers]

It's the maddest I've ever known it. Was it this bad at the height of the market pre-2008 crash?

The house we were going for was bought by the current sellers in 2017 for £55,000 under what we offered. They did nothing to it whatsoever, and if anything, because they neglected the garden and let the paddock behind overgrow, it was in a worse state than when they bought it!

I remember house prices going crazy the year we bought our first place back in '89.It was a three bed terrace and those type of houses stayed at around the £42/45k mark for years.
The next big jump in prices was in 2002,when they went up to £65k.The following year they were £85k and just kept going up until 2007,when they were £140k+.

Two years ago a house in our old street sold for £90k,today the same house will cost you something closer to £150k which is a lot more than we paid for the five bed detached we're in now.

[rob1966]

Couple over the road from me have just moved out, estate agent is showing the house this afternoon, 4 different viewings in the past hour already.

[CraigDS]

Couple over the road from me have just moved out, estate agent is showing the house this afternoon, 4 different viewings in the past hour already.

Not saying anything but.... seems a lot of your neighbours are moving mate 

[rob1966]

Not saying anything but.... seems a lot of your neighbours are moving mate 

Don't know why, I'm such a nice neighbour, we have loads of people over and I keep my house nice

[Jake]

Couple over the road from me have just moved out, estate agent is showing the house this afternoon, 4 different viewings in the past hour already.

Step away from the curtain Rob

[fowlermagic]

You can say that about anything though. I get paid to provide IT support to people. Why aren't they putting in the effort to learn how to fix their own PC? It would save them money. Why does my job even exist when people can just put some effort in? Why does any job, when we could all be self-sufficient with more effort?

At some point, people value their time more than the amount of money they have to pay to get a job done, whether that's because of the knowledge, time, contacts or even just the sheer graft required to get it done effectively, efficiently or even at all. People's perceptions of where the balance between the two will vary based on multiple factors.

Personally I don't have a view on estate agents as I've only ever bought this house, not had to try and sell through one.

Edit - I will say I feel the same way as some of you about travel agents. Blows my mind that some people (especially 50+) still go and speak to someone to sort out their holidays. Admittedly I've only ever travelled in the internet era but it's not exactly difficult to book a flight and find a hotel yourself these days.

Some things will always require an expert especially when the manufacturer like car companies basically make it near nigh impossible to change your own oil or a light bulb in a car these days. Plus the average person today does not have the time to do it but somehow someway has seen every show on Netflix and spends a couple of hours on their social media every day Its funny when I travel especially to countries that are not as developed as the UK you find people who can fix virtually everything. Was in Zambia with friends who's flat screen TV went blank one evening. Within two days they had a friend of a friend dismantling it and replacing a couple of parts to get it working again. That happens here we are in the shop the next day buying a new TV as its easier and we can afford it I guess but what I saw there reminded me how handy our older generations were. They fixed things, we just chuck them away.

In regards to travel agents there is people out there that have so much money they dont give a rats if they pay a little extra as long as someone else is insuring everything will go well with their trip. Its easy enough to book a hotel in Spain or Greece for two weeks as I do it myself but some trips require a specialist. Would you be comfortable planning a month's trip to New Zealand if it involved deluxe hotels throughout, private transfers, various day tours that sell out months in advance, a heli trip to one of the fjords etc etc? This is where experts know the ins and outs and avoid the pitfalls which would lead a dream trip becoming a nightmare. Its why the travel industry is worth trillions. It why people paid agents money to plan their trips in the same manner you get paid for IT support. I bet there is a lot less specialists in the travel world than there is in IT sector. Everyone I know these days seems to be some sort of IT expert

[CraigDS]

Some things will always require an expert

The thing is, estate agents aren't experts. I'm pretty sure most people could set up shop tomorrow and call themselves one. Happy to be corrected, but don't think you need to pass any sort of industry qualification to become one.

They simply put together the house info, take a few pics (both things often appallingly), shove it up on their website and Rightmove, then answer a few emails. The actual expert stuff is done by the lawyers and surveyors.

[reddebs]

The thing is, estate agents aren't experts. I'm pretty sure most people could set up shop tomorrow and call themselves one. Happy to be corrected, but don't think you need to pass any sort of industry qualification to become one.

They simply put together the house info, take a few pics (both things often appallingly), shove it up on their website and Rightmove, then answer a few emails. The actual expert stuff is done by the lawyers and surveyors.

Yep.

My ex bosses husband did exactly that.  He hadn't even worked as an estate agent

[fowlermagic]

The thing is, estate agents aren't experts. I'm pretty sure most people could set up shop tomorrow and call themselves one. Happy to be corrected, but don't think you need to pass any sort of industry qualification to become one.

They simply put together the house info, take a few pics (both things often appallingly), shove it up on their website and Rightmove, then answer a few emails. The actual expert stuff is done by the lawyers and surveyors.

I dont have a clue about how you become an agent but half guess I would need some qualification / course to get a license. Its getting to the stage you need a diploma and insurance to wipe your ass these days There is bluffers in every industry and just hope they are quickly weeded out. Still I see houses falling down around Ireland right now due to cowboy builders throwing them up in the late 90s/2000s and there was suppose to be regulators overseeing these builds. I wonder how many builds got the OK with a brown envelope and bet its still going on as way too many businesses take the short cut, reduce costs to make the maximum profit at the expense of the customer.

I pity the first time buyer who needs 20% deposit on a house that is marketed at 350k but will quickly go to 450k plus in a bidding war and they find out 10 years later the true value of the property was half what they paid for it. The government looking on letting it happen again and again every decade or so as they have an interest in vulture funds gobbling up the market.

[CraigDS]

I dont have a clue about how you become an agent but half guess I would need some qualification / course to get a license.

A license? They don't even need GCSEs!

[fowlermagic]

Haha I guess there is my answer but surely you need some qualification to be a member of certain agent bodies? I guess its up to the buyer to work with a reliable agent as if they are recommended and in the industry for 20 plus years then there is their qualification.

[CraigDS]

Haha I guess there is my answer but surely you need some qualification to be a member of certain agent bodies? I guess its up to the buyer to work with a reliable agent as if they are recommended and in the industry for 20 plus years then there is their qualification.

Buyers don’t have a choice who they work with though, as they work with whichever the seller picks.

[rob1966]

A license? They don't even need GCSEs!

A background in customer service was the only thing I saw recommended to have to become one.