Topic: Atheism

[Alan_X]

It's weird as I sort of like the break that people have over December for Christmas, but more because of the time for families and the festivities than because it's Jesus Christ's birthday.

The Midwinter Festival was a thing long before it was co-opted by the Christian Church.

It's highly unlikely that Jesus (if he actually existed) would have been born in December if there were shepherds in the fields for example.

It wasn't until AD440 that the date was set as December 25th to coincide with the Roman festival of Saturnalia that was in turn taken form an earlier Babylonian feast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule

Same with The Spring Festival which was turned into Easter.

[ToneLa]

And the Holy Ghost?

Included in the Holy Trinity I mentioned... Haha, I don't think I've heard someone just talk about that part the same way God or Jesus gets mentioned. Might start doing it when I want nobody to sit by me on the bus.

[thelinnen]

My mother still gives my sister grief for not baptising her kids.  I find that pressure appalling.  She genuinely thinks the two boys will go to hell if they're not baptised.  I cannot understand why someone would love a God that they think would send two lovely innocent young boys to hell for the crime of not having a 'holy sacrament.'  That God is an utter shitbag.

I got married to my (also atheist) wife in a church. It was because of pressure from families. I didn't care cos it was a nice building and the christian part meant nothing to me.  If I have kids, though, I refuse to have them baptised or sent to a single faith school.  Faith will have to be something they find on their own. I think Alan X said earlier about humanist naming ceremonies.  I've only been to one and it was exactly what you're describing - all the fun, celebratory parts without the boring church bit.

It's incredible isn't it? That nagging feeling in the back of your mind that if you and your family don't follow this oddly specific path you will end up in hell or purgatory for an eternity. It can make the most rational person bend submit to the will of Christianity.

Mine was mainly driven by a faith school, the roman catholic school in my area was considered the best primary school around. You never get warned of the long-lasting effects of that experience though. The thing is when you've been indoctrinated, you rarely question it on a deep level. It took a lot of pot and self-reflection this summer for me to finally come to the conclusion that it's all bullshit. I feel equally sorry and enraged for those that will go their lives believing in it, as they will force it on their children like with me.

[redprodigal]

So true.

[losCHUNK]

Included in the Holy Trinity I mentioned... Haha, I don't think I've heard someone just talk about that part the same way God or Jesus gets mentioned. Might start doing it when I want nobody to sit by me on the bus.

The holy spirit resides in us ?, it's Gods influence on us  ?, like Jesus was an extension of God as is the holy spirit.

I always found it strange that 3 aspects make up God yet God is included in those 3 aspects. Christianception.  What was God before the son ?, really he should've been 2/3s God.

[TepidT2O]

That’s because the Bible is utterly contradictory.  The early church had to invent the trinity as a fudge for this.

Obviously it’s utter bollocks. Nuns on the run deals with it quite nicely.

[BlackandWhitePaul]

Keystone Cop defending by the Toon there.  1-1

FUCK ME, as I type this out Perez scores making it 2-1 to us.

Unbelievable Jeff   

[BlackandWhitePaul]

Keystone Cop defending by the Toon there.  1-1

FUCK ME, as I type this out Perez scores making it 2-1 to us.

Unbelievable Jeff   

Damn it, I put this in the wrong place.

Or did I, it was certainly a miracle how we scored that goal.  Aye   

[classycarra]

Damn it, I put this in the wrong place.

Or did I, it was certainly a miracle how we scored that goal.  Aye   

Praise the Rafatollah!

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Disgraced evangelist Jim Bakker warns critics they will face God’s wrath for making fun of him

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/y2ZmYPHI3hk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/y2ZmYPHI3hk</a>

[classycarra]

Disgraced evangelist Jim Bakker warns critics they will face God’s wrath for making fun of him

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/y2ZmYPHI3hk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/y2ZmYPHI3hk</a>

hard to take someone seriously whose family name managed to spell baker so badly, and has smaller hands than trump. he makes this god fella sound like a sad twat, like the older kid who hangs around after school a couple of years after he's left school, trying to scare people who mock the tiny handed twat

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Aye he is a diddy little scrote..

[Chakan]

Disgraced evangelist Jim Bakker warns critics they will face God’s wrath for making fun of him

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/y2ZmYPHI3hk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/y2ZmYPHI3hk</a>

Rape and Fraud. Sounds like someone god should take a close look at.

Bakker has renounced his past teachings on prosperity theology, saying they were wrong. In his 1996 book, I Was Wrong, he admitted that the first time he actually read the Bible all the way through was while he was in prison, and that it made him realize he had taken certain passages out of context — passages which he had used as "proof texts" to back up his prosperity teachings. He wrote:

    The more I studied the Bible, however, I had to admit that the prosperity message did not line up with the tenor of Scripture. My heart was crushed to think that I led so many people astray. I was appalled that I could have been so wrong, and I was deeply grateful that God had not struck me dead as a false prophet

You just have to laugh.

[thejbs]

Meanwhile, Christian nut jobs are claiming that Ophelia is God's wrath for Ireland planning an abortion referendum. Why he would also punish the abortion hating, gay marriage denying, homophobic north as well is anyone's guess.

[Yorkykopite]

Meanwhile, Christian nut jobs are claiming that Ophelia is God's wrath for Ireland planning an abortion referendum. Why he would also punish the abortion hating, gay marriage denying, homophobic north as well is anyone's guess.

He obviously doesn't recognise partition.

[thejbs]

He obviously doesn't recognise partition.

Hahaha

Surely it's all part of his plan?

[So… Howard Philips]

He obviously doesn't recognise partition.

I'm confused. So God is a Brexiteer then?

[Yorkykopite]

I'm confused. So God is a Brexiteer then?

Well, he says the hard border between Heaven and Hell has always worked well.

[thejbs]

I'm confused. So God is a Brexiteer then?

Look, it's all part of God's plan. Brexit, Trump, hurricanes, climate change... all of it. He's got it under control.

[Corkboy]

Xpost from the Myanmar thread, needs to be said here, too.

Look, this has to stop. You're using that word bigotry and you clearly don't know what it means.

I'm realistic about people. I know many people have religious beliefs and that doesn't make them bad, or good. But this thread and the Atheism one are discussion topics, and in a discussion, I am allowed to ridicule those beliefs in any way I want. That's not bigotry. It might be intolerance, if you want to frame disagreement as intolerance, but it's not bigotry.

Let me give you an example. If I have a geology research lab and I am hiring, I would be a bigot if I excluded all Muslims, or all Buddhists. However, if in the course of an interview, I find that my applicant is a Young Earth creationist Christian who doesn't accept modern science, that's a bit of a fucking problem in a geology lab. That's not bigotry. That's just sorry, your beliefs are stupid and disqualify you for this job.

If you think analysing and criticising and mocking religious beliefs is bigotry, you're wrong. Your ideas about karma and people being born into particular families are stupid and cruel. They demonstrate a complete lack of acceptance of genetics, biology, pretty much everything we know about life, and reek of a disgusting vengeance porn idea of morality. That's fine, you're entitled to those beliefs. And I'm entitled to mock them.

[Corkboy]

No matter how we define morality, religious people do not behave more morally than atheists, although they often say (and likely believe) that they do.

[Trim0582]

No matter how we define morality, religious people do not behave more morally than atheists, although they often say (and likely believe) that they do.

It's of no surprise to many atheists, but using evidence against a group that actively dismiss evidence and reason over faith, somewhat renders your most powerful tool inert. Half of us will nod agreement the other half will create their own "evidence" based on some obscure personal revelation.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

The religious right has come out of the closet — and it is everything its worst critics claimed

[Corkboy]

The religious right has come out of the closet — and it is everything its worst critics claimed

[Poet]

The religious right has come out of the closet — and it is everything its worst critics claimed

One of the most comical ironies is when the religious right attempts to condemn the Saudi or any other backward regime. It actually perceives itself as morally superior. Yes they don't officially stone women for adultery, but they cause women to become secondary agents of their own bodies. Not to mention subjecting African Americans to vile xenophobic tirades. Jesus Christ if anything was a tolerant man but these individuals seem to be using their religion as a means of comforting their conscience into believing that their immorality can be prayed away.

[Chakan]

One of the most comical ironies is when the religious right attempts to condemn the Saudi or any other backward regime. It actually perceives itself as morally superior. Yes they don't officially stone women for adultery, but they cause women to become secondary agents of their own bodies. Not to mention subjecting African Americans to vile xenophobic tirades. Jesus Christ if anything was a tolerant man but these individuals seem to be using their religion as a means of comforting their conscience into believing that their immorality can be prayed away.

Their whole religion is based around the fact that if you're a christian you go to heaven and if you're not you go to hell. Not surprising really.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Judges cite Bible to justify sparing jail time for man who beat ‘disloyal’ and ‘immoral’ ex-wife

Judges in Portugal have spared a man who beat his ex-wife from having to serve time in jail by citing Bible verses that call for the execution of adulterous women.

CNN reports that a Portuguese appeals court sparked outrage in the country this week when it ruled that a man who beat his wife so badly that she needed to get five stitches did not deserve prison time because the wife had “dishonored” him by having an affair with another man.

“The adultery of the woman is a very serious attack on the honor and dignity of the man,” read the court’s ruling, which was signed by Judge Joaquim Neto de Moura. “It was the disloyalty and the sexual immorality of the plaintiff that made (the defendant) fall into a profound depression, and it was in this depressive state and clouded by the revolt that carried out the act of aggression.”

The ruling also cited a Bible verse that states that “the adulterous woman must be punished by death” to justify its lenient sentence.

Human rights group Amnesty International slammed the ruling, and expressed concern “not only for the performance of the adjudicating judges in breach of the legal and constitutional precepts, but for the reflection of a culture and justice that promotes misogyny.”

[TepidT2O]

This is very interesting ...

The pope in a spot of bother....

Makes it clear how absurd religion is..,

Very long, very interesting, not very much like Jesus I reckon...

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/oct/27/the-war-against-pope-francis

[Trim0582]

This is very interesting ...

The pope in a spot of bother....

Makes it clear how absurd religion is..,

Very long, very interesting, not very much like Jesus I reckon...

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/oct/27/the-war-against-pope-francis

Great article, I am really unsure on one point though. His detractors fear he is about to commit heresy but is that possible as the vicar of Christ? If Christian's believe that Jesus said "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" Then surely the pope cannot commit heresy, the mechanism for the any concessions or amendments the Pope wishes to make are enshrined within the bible.
After Pope Benedict XVI, who was a wretched wicked man, Pope Francis by comparison has been a beacon of light. It is madness that his progressive views (relative statement in context of being a Pope) and moderate behavior will be his ruin.

The whole world seems to be becoming more right-wing, more nationalistic and more religiously fundamental

[TepidT2O]

They can’t wait for him to die....

Extraordinary....

[Trim0582]

They can’t wait for him to die....

Extraordinary....

Actually thought that bit was vile, how can anyone have such views for someone who seems to be a relatively progressive, modernising and seemingly quite gentle old man, is beyond me.
That this person was an English Priest, should wither the heart of any decent person. Perhaps worse is that he doesn't even have the courage of his conviction, what a craven coward, wanting an old man to die is bad enough, but then begging for it not to be printed because he might lose his job following that man, is disgusting.

[thisyearisouryear]

This is very interesting ...

The pope in a spot of bother....

Makes it clear how absurd religion is..,

Very long, very interesting, not very much like Jesus I reckon...

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/oct/27/the-war-against-pope-francis

Excellent read. Thanks for sharing.

[RedRabbit]

Excellent read. Thanks for sharing.

+1

[classycarra]

Actually thought that bit was vile, how can anyone have such views for someone who seems to be a relatively progressive, modernising and seemingly quite gentle old man, is beyond me.
That this person was an English Priest, should wither the heart of any decent person. Perhaps worse is that he doesn't even have the courage of his conviction, what a craven coward, wanting an old man to die is bad enough, but then begging for it not to be printed because he might lose his job following that man, is disgusting.

Didn't seem gentle when he said "insult my mother, expect a punch", trying to justify violent religious extremism (RE Charlie Hebdo) and shut down criticism of religion.

That this bellend is called moderate, modern and/or decent is as damning an indictment of the catholic establishment as anything

[Trim0582]

Didn't seem gentle when he said "insult my mother, expect a punch", trying to justify violent religious extremism (RE Charlie Hebdo) and shut down criticism of religion.

That this bellend is called moderate, modern and/or decent is as damning an indictment of the catholic establishment as anything

In my earlier reply I did qualify that these are relative statements in the context of him being Pope, compared to Benedict he is a saint. Compared to other Popes he is a moderate.

[carling]

The days of religion in modern society have got to be numbered.  The fight between religion and science never had a conclusive winner because it always took people making effort on both sides to put arguments across.  Now that science and logic have the internet in their corner, there's only one way it will go.

Anyone who spends their whole life accessing the internet every day, being able to instantly access so much knowledge, is going to find it extremely difficult to choose religion ... regardless of how much they were influenced as kids.

[Trim0582]

The days of religion in modern society have got to be numbered.  The fight between religion and science never had a conclusive winner because it always took people making effort on both sides to put arguments across.  Now that science and logic have the internet in their corner, there's only one way it will go.

Anyone who spends their whole life accessing the internet every day, being able to instantly access so much knowledge, is going to find it extremely difficult to choose religion ... regardless of how much they were influenced as kids.

But people have confirmation bias, religious people will only search for things on the internet that fit the mindset.

[carling]

But people have confirmation bias, religious people will only search for things on the internet that fit the mindset.

Maybe people who are already adults when they first started using the internet.  But kids today who are using the internet from pretty much the time they can read ... good luck keeping them only on religious websites.

Give it a few generations and the number of devoutly religious people surely can only drop dramatically.  Families are going to have to be immensely strict to keep their kids heading down a heavily religious path.  Then their kids will need the same resoluteness with their own kids - massively censoring or refuting everything on the internet.  I just don't see it lasting...

[classycarra]

In my earlier reply I did qualify that these are relative statements in the context of him being Pope, compared to Benedict he is a saint. Compared to other Popes he is a moderate.

Sorry, that second line was supposed to be more generic and not attacking you. I spotted you said it was relative (which I agree with). My problem is with people who don't qualify that and suggest this relic of a worse time is moderate or modern

[Trim0582]

Maybe people who are already adults when they first started using the internet.  But kids today who are using the internet from pretty much the time they can read ... good luck keeping them only on religious websites.

Give it a few generations and the number of devoutly religious people surely can only drop dramatically.  Families are going to have to be immensely strict to keep their kids heading down a heavily religious path.  Then their kids will need the same resoluteness with their own kids - massively censoring or refuting everything on the internet.  I just don't see it lasting...

I hope you are correct but in all honesty the whole world is a mess. Wealth gaps are growing most people have next to nothing, owning a house in the UK is unachievable for many people. The quality of politicians is declining dramatically. Obama was probably the last great statesmen. It's become like Idiocracy http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/

The problem is the desperation it causes for many people and in that desperation religion creeps in and takes hold. It promises tomorrow will be better, for all eternity and many people want that hope, even if it's false. The mess the world is in today is perfect for religion, it's there dream come true.