Author Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics (*)  (Read 922874 times)

Offline JackWard33

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,725
  • President of the Harry Wilson fanclub
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #960 on: March 1, 2017, 03:18:55 pm »
For the record Melissa Reddy is saying we are looking at Naby Keita, he's the boss midfielder everyone wants. Atleast it shows Klopp knows we need more in the middle of the park. Wonder what it means for Can who is stalling on a new deal. Either way we badly need a solid midfielder to aid hendo and aid us when we play the battling teams.

Stick him on the list with Dahoud, Gotze, Dembele, Chilwell, Puslic, Brandt, Draxler etc etc
No idea why our transfer targets are so publicly known and leaked. Do other clubs have this going on at this level?

Offline penga

  • What you get if you cross Pingu with Jenga.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,662
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #961 on: March 1, 2017, 03:19:23 pm »
The same Lucas played at centre back against Leicester and Vardy when we beat them 4-1 were generally defensively solid, helping set up 2 goals with good passes out from the back (never mind the give away goal that shouldn't have been allowed anyway). The squad is lacking confidence right now. We got exposed on the 1st goal by a poor give away in midfield against their high-ish pressing which resulted in 1 pass opening up our defence. This is what we usually do to the opposition who like to play, not a true counter-attack but pressing a mistake and making a chance instantly. But admittedly we have been struggling with counter-attack sort of goals in general recently.

The question is then can we sit a bit deeper? Then the problem becomes at how good we are dealing with sustained pressure or any pressure of balls coming into our box. Which on the evidence we've seen is not good at all. It gives you the sense we are inevitably going to concede in many games - which is what happened for Leicester's 2nd goal despite the wonder strike - a sustained period of pressure from long throws and crosses/corners.

Unfortunately Klopp has not managed to solve our defensive issues yet and we are conceding at the same rate as Rodgers teams. I'm not sure how he should go about it because it doesn't look like our team's personnel/organisation can switch modes into the sitting deep defensive type mentality like Conte's Chelsea or Mourinho's teams except periodically in big games like against Man City.

Offline penga

  • What you get if you cross Pingu with Jenga.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,662
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #962 on: March 1, 2017, 03:24:30 pm »
Stick him on the list with Dahoud, Gotze, Dembele, Chilwell, Puslic, Brandt, Draxler etc etc
No idea why our transfer targets are so publicly known and leaked. Do other clubs have this going on at this level?
Ye doesn't serve much purpose but they have a way of getting out in the end anyway. Maybe the agents leak first to drive up wages? Or the other club does it to make a bidding war?

Otherwise hopefully smokescreens hoping other people sign them so we get our real targets :D

Online newterp

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,385
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #963 on: March 1, 2017, 03:28:14 pm »
Didn't Klopp state about a week ago that we have targets already set and in the works and that having CL shouldn't matter to most of them?

Now that we likely won't have CL let's see what happens.

Offline JackWard33

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,725
  • President of the Harry Wilson fanclub
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #964 on: March 1, 2017, 03:29:06 pm »
Ye doesn't serve much purpose but they have a way of getting out in the end anyway. Maybe the agents leak first to drive up wages? Or the other club does it to make a bidding war?

Otherwise hopefully smokescreens hoping other people sign them so we get our real targets :D

The thing is they're all reported by Joyce, Reddy and Pearce - they're all from journalists 'sourced' so it appears we're actually going for these players
It's a bit weird.... either the club is leaking the names to help our PR with fans (as in 'we were in for Draxler etc) which seems a bit silly as it just gives ammo for idiot fans like me to bang on about their failures :). Or they genuinely think they're getting these players and they want the world to know for some reason..... no idea - find it all a bit odd

Offline AaronSingh25

  • Never Going to Grow Old. Dis-
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,255
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #965 on: March 1, 2017, 03:32:09 pm »
I think the general consensus is something in the 16 day break has gone wrong, the trip away to La Manga, the training back in Liverpool, no competitive fixtures. The players looked lethargic, unfit, the sharpness wasn't there, ball control and movement was lacking - all hallmarks of a team looking rusty.

You can always lose a game, but i've never seen a team sent out by Klopp look so devoid of energy. Players weren't pressing, and worst of all seemed burnt out by the time we got the goal. Instead of one final assault to get back into the game the players were done for.

Either the players relaxed far too much, too much of a break - or they were over worked and just knackered.

Either way, something went wrong with the coaching. Harsh lesson for Klopp and his team.

Offline SerbianScouser

  • Far from world class.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,808
  • ...All the best
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #966 on: March 1, 2017, 03:36:24 pm »
I think the general consensus is something in the 16 day break has gone wrong, the trip away to La Manga, the training back in Liverpool, no competitive fixtures. The players looked lethargic, unfit, the sharpness wasn't there, ball control and movement was lacking - all hallmarks of a team looking rusty.
It wouldn't have been an issue if Leicester had the same break but they didn't , they were playing games and maintained their match sharpness, hence why they looked sharper and more up to speed than us especially in the first half, this is something you can't avoid. We'll have the similar advantage over Arsenal at the weekend as well I suspect.

Offline AaronSingh25

  • Never Going to Grow Old. Dis-
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,255
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #967 on: March 1, 2017, 03:37:40 pm »
Didn't Klopp state about a week ago that we have targets already set and in the works and that having CL shouldn't matter to most of them?

Now that we likely won't have CL let's see what happens.

The last time we qualified for the CL, every single target would have joined us regardless we were in it or not. Players who are at a level that demand CL are going to be in a top bracket, want big wages - that itself is the crux of the issue.

Furthermore, the likes of United and Chelsea have shown even if you aren't in CL you can still attract big players. We are still an attraction for many players - it's just the question are we prepared to pay the wages to secure them? Not only pay the wages, but fend of the competition by paying more. Not the whole ethos of 'we will match what they are paying' - you pay MORE than the competition to secure the signature.

It appears, what journalists are saying is Klopp passed on some targets like Draxler because he didn't feel they were worth the cost and wages. All well and noble from Jurgen saving the club money, but a few more seasons of not going anywhere he will leave those savings to his successor.

Offline AaronSingh25

  • Never Going to Grow Old. Dis-
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,255
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #968 on: March 1, 2017, 03:40:32 pm »
It wouldn't have been an issue if Leicester had the same break but they didn't , they were playing games and maintained their match sharpness, hence why they looked sharper and more up to speed than us especially in the first half, this is something you can't avoid. We'll have the similar advantage over Arsenal at the weekend as well I suspect.

But Klopp has been an advocate of having a break. He's been one of the big vocal critics of us playing too much. He got one, and we came back massively undercooked.

Furthermore, you could argue Leicester having just played a massive Champions League game a few days earlier away in Seville should have been knackered.

And to go on ... Klopp and his coaching staff would have wanted to avoid this exact problem of the players being rusty. And they failed. Like i say, only the players will know if they were knackered from being over worked or just not match fit.

Offline SerbianScouser

  • Far from world class.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,808
  • ...All the best
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #969 on: March 1, 2017, 03:46:33 pm »
Furthermore, you could argue Leicester having just played a massive Champions League game a few days earlier away in Seville should have been knackered.
4 full days of rest is more than ample time for professional footballers to recover for the next game. There's nothing we could have done to avoid rustiness, there is no substitute for a proper match where is how you gain or maintain your match fitness.

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

  • Keita's shit, Bundesliga's shit, Bundesliga 2's shit
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,502
  • RAWK Cheltenham 2020 Champion Tipster*
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #970 on: March 1, 2017, 03:48:22 pm »
4 full days of rest is more than ample time for professional footballers to recover for the next game. There's nothing we could have done to avoid rustiness, there is no substitute for a proper match where is how you gain or maintain your match fitness.

So just to get this right, we're now making excuses for when we've got too many games and too few games?

It's all embarrassingly small-time. And in actual fact I think Klopp should keep his mouth shut next winter. I get he's trying to make a wider point to try and encourage a winter break. But make those movements behind the scenes in private with the appropriate authorities. In both years thus far I don't think being so open about it and making excuses before we've even kicked a ball has helped his players win football matches.
« Last Edit: March 1, 2017, 03:50:22 pm by LallanaInPyjamas »

Online Fromola

  • For the love of god please shut the fuck up. Lomola... “The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the King!...” Places stock in the wrong opinions. Miserable F*cker! Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 30,614
  • Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #971 on: March 1, 2017, 03:53:03 pm »
The Sakho thing has killed our season. If they couldn't sort it out then he had to go out and buy someone in January.

Combined with no contingency whatsoever for Mane going to AFCON or a replacement for Henderson when his foot is fucked (which is often) and it's killed the season.

Sakho, Allen and even Markovic  to cover Mane for a few weeks would have helped. If not we needed three signings in January and got none.

Lucas at centre back is pathetic.
« Last Edit: March 1, 2017, 03:55:09 pm by Bitter Mug »
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Online Fromola

  • For the love of god please shut the fuck up. Lomola... “The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the King!...” Places stock in the wrong opinions. Miserable F*cker! Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 30,614
  • Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #972 on: March 1, 2017, 03:58:42 pm »
4 full days of rest is more than ample time for professional footballers to recover for the next game. There's nothing we could have done to avoid rustiness, there is no substitute for a proper match where is how you gain or maintain your match fitness.

We were unfortunate it was moved to Monday. If it was on Saturday after the Seville game on Wednesday they'd still have had that in the legs and plus the shock of Ranieri going. Instead they had an extra couple of days rest and to get fired up from all the criticism. It also meant we didn't play for 16 days rather than 14.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

  • Keita's shit, Bundesliga's shit, Bundesliga 2's shit
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,502
  • RAWK Cheltenham 2020 Champion Tipster*
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #973 on: March 1, 2017, 03:59:55 pm »
The Sakho thing has killed our season. If they couldn't sort it out then he had to go out and buy someone in January.

Combined with no contingency whatsoever for Mane going to AFCON or a replacement for Henderson whose foot when his foot is fucked (which is often) and it's killed the season.

Sakho, Allen and even Markovic or Ibe to cover Mane for a few weeks would have helped. If not we needed three signings in January and got none.

Lucas at centre back is pathetic.

It's somewhere in between all of that I think.

Sakho absolutely should have been properly replaced last summer because going into a season with Klavan and Lucas as Liverpool's next line of centre-backs is a disgrace. Oh how long ago having Carragher, Agger, Skrtel and Hyypia feels.

I have sympathy with the cover for Henderson aspect because, while he's been hit and miss through his entire time at the club, Emre Can felt like adequate competition in that role based on some of his performances last season. It looks like that may no longer be the case, but I think we had and probably do still have a few bigger issues. Quite why Kevin Stewart has not been trusted in sporadic games - Sunderland away less than 48 hours after Manchester City at home is the prime example - I don't know.

As for cover for Mané, or a like-minded player on the opposite flank to compensate for his loss slash allow us to play two wingers and stretch the pitch, I think we all know that was 100% needed in January.

In terms of our squad we undercooked ourselves in quality and quantity in more areas than just those three, but it's hardly a surprise given that we've been doing so for a decade of American ownership now.
« Last Edit: March 1, 2017, 04:01:39 pm by LallanaInPyjamas »

Offline fowlermagic

  • Ilittarate
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,490
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #974 on: March 1, 2017, 04:10:45 pm »
Team Analysis - Jekyll one week Hyde the next. Crazy start to 2017 and it must be the Trump factor as everything seems to be up in the air right now and nothing makes sense. All told we knew the answer to our issues were never going to occur over night and Jurgen needs time, money and a whole lot of patience to sort us out. The crazy thing is even after dropping points like it was an ex with herpes we still are just a win off 2nd place pretty much. Klopp may be the most inspirational manager we could have hired right now, still he is not Jesus but damn the man still is producing a minor miracle to be within touching distance of the Top 4. Who knows what team will turn up for the next match as you wont find me analyzing them too much right now....just hoping we can get out of the right side of the bed and give it a right good go from here to May.
I have a simple philosophy: Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. Scratch where it itches. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi5-V75v-6I

Offline El Lobo

  • Chief Suck Up. Feel his breath on your face. Toxic, pathetic, arse-faced, weaselling slimeball. RAWK Maths Genius 2022.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 54,990
  • Pretty, pretty, pretty pretty good
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #975 on: March 1, 2017, 04:15:50 pm »
Team Analysis - Jekyll one week Hyde the next. Crazy start to 2017 and it must be the Trump factor as everything seems to be up in the air right now and nothing makes sense. All told we knew the answer to our issues were never going to occur over night and Jurgen needs time, money and a whole lot of patience to sort us out. The crazy thing is even after dropping points like it was an ex with herpes we still are just a win off 2nd place pretty much. Klopp may be the most inspirational manager we could have hired right now, still he is not Jesus but damn the man still is producing a minor miracle to be within touching distance of the Top 4. Who knows what team will turn up for the next match as you wont find me analyzing them too much right now....just hoping we can get out of the right side of the bed and give it a right good go from here to May.

Agreed

Wish he'd stop playing Lucas though  :butt
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Online Fromola

  • For the love of god please shut the fuck up. Lomola... “The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the King!...” Places stock in the wrong opinions. Miserable F*cker! Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 30,614
  • Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #976 on: March 1, 2017, 04:35:13 pm »
I have sympathy with the cover for Henderson aspect because, while he's been hit and miss through his entire time at the club, Emre Can felt like adequate competition in that role based on some of his performances last season. It looks like that may no longer be the case, but I think we had and probably do still have a few bigger issues. Quite why Kevin Stewart has not been trusted in sporadic games - Sunderland away less than 48 hours after Manchester City at home is the prime example - I don't know.

If we weren't going to trust Stewart then we needed to buy someone else.

I made this point when Stewart and Flanagan signed new contracts last year that are they going to be relied upon to cover? Flanagan was loaned out and hasn't played at Burnley and Stewart has barely kicked a ball all year. Between the two of them that's two wastes of a squad place.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Online Fromola

  • For the love of god please shut the fuck up. Lomola... “The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the King!...” Places stock in the wrong opinions. Miserable F*cker! Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 30,614
  • Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #977 on: March 1, 2017, 04:38:19 pm »
Team Analysis - Jekyll one week Hyde the next. Crazy start to 2017 and it must be the Trump factor as everything seems to be up in the air right now and nothing makes sense. All told we knew the answer to our issues were never going to occur over night and Jurgen needs time, money and a whole lot of patience to sort us out. The crazy thing is even after dropping points like it was an ex with herpes we still are just a win off 2nd place pretty much. Klopp may be the most inspirational manager we could have hired right now, still he is not Jesus but damn the man still is producing a minor miracle to be within touching distance of the Top 4. Who knows what team will turn up for the next match as you wont find me analyzing them too much right now....just hoping we can get out of the right side of the bed and give it a right good go from here to May.

Don't get me wrong he's all we've got going for us at the moment as a football club, but like Rafa under incompetent football administrators he can't afford to make mistakes, he has to be flawless in his decision making. As soon as Rafa made big mistakes (Aquilani, Keane) it was the beginning of the end. The Sakho clusterfuck leaving us with Lucas at centre back and inertia in January is a big one too.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline 007.lankyguy

  • Subject of a restraining order by a regular member of the HIGNFY crew. Hasn't got a clue when Liverpool play next. Fully stopped.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,655
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #978 on: March 1, 2017, 04:49:47 pm »
What positions do you think we need to upgrade for next season? Love to know how you see it. I have it down as four or potentially five. All signings can't be a success. That goes without saying. We need at least three of those to be a success and players of a very high standard. If i had to pick the three in which we hit the jackpot, it would be CB, CM and a keeper.

                                                xxxx

Clyne                  xxxx                                   Matip/Lovren            xxxx

                                           Henderson

                     Lallana                                       xxxx


Mane                                                                              Coutinho

                                      Firmino/xxxx


Starting forward i'm undecided on. Yes i know we've hit 55 goals this season but 6 goals from our striker is concerning. Firmino can be verging on world class when in top form but that is for potentially half of our league campaign. The other half he can be either the wrong fit at the time or out of form - easily bullied, poor touch and his lack of pace hindering us. We need a another forward who can be a starter in place of Firmino, for the games that don't fit him.
Partly depends on circumstances. A centre back (or two), a left back and a central midfielder for definite, of which the centre back(s) and midfielder should take priority in terms of financial outlay. Unless Klopp is willing to risk going all in on Karius, then a goalkeeper is needed. If the right centre forward comes up, then we'd be very foolish to pass up on that too. That's five, maybe six players, mostly in and around the base of the team, plus one at the top point of it. I think looking at the areas that need prioritising, that's the core of it. Ideally we need another good 1v1 attacker and another CM (given we lack both a play maker and a DM) as well.
"Mind you, I've been here during the bad times too - one year we came second." Sir Bob

Offline Gonebay

  • Horny for Dudek
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 729
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #979 on: March 1, 2017, 04:56:07 pm »
I think tactics wise, Klopp is up there at the top. If you think of intelligent managers and coaches, he and possibly Pep are the two who are at different levels to others, at least in premier league. Klopp is hampered by players not being consistent enough and not putting same effort every match. Every time we concede or a move fails, you see an expression on Klopp's face as if saying, see I had warned you about this in training. Will buying big names solve our problem of players not implementing tactics properly? I am not sure. He will probably despise having 100M toy like Pogba. The ideal way for him to succeed will be buying young players who can carry out his instructions to T throughout season, like Dortmund guys. Most of our squad can reach that level I am confident but 2-3 more rough gems for him to mould and we can have a fully functioning machine.

Offline Chris~

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,470
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #980 on: March 1, 2017, 05:55:26 pm »
It's rarely one issue.
I don't disagree, I clearly just don't agree with the majority in the tactics thread that tactics/coaching/player quality are all a bigger issue than being mentally weak, cowards or some other buzzword.

So just to get this right, we're now making excuses for when we've got too many games and too few games?

It's all embarrassingly small-time. And in actual fact I think Klopp should keep his mouth shut next winter. I get he's trying to make a wider point to try and encourage a winter break. But make those movements behind the scenes in private with the appropriate authorities. In both years thus far I don't think being so open about it and making excuses before we've even kicked a ball has helped his players win football matches.
The two weeks shouldn't be used as an excuse. Too many games is fair, but should have been better prepared for better we knew it was coming.

Offline kezzy

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #981 on: March 1, 2017, 06:18:11 pm »
Yeah, I agree with that. It's something you are born with. Not to label them all with the same brush but many South American players a perceived as 'snide', but that's a lot to do with their upbringing and where they played their football. You just learn to scrap for balls, to win dirty, to be a sly c*nt. Looking back we've had a few local lads like Stevie and Carra who could be horrible fuckers. I think a lot depends on where you play your football growing up.

This is going to sound stupid perhaps but is the fact that many kids are now playing most of their football in pristine academies up and down the country filtering out the street player in many of them? Many young kids now (in this country at least) play most or all of their football at a club and in some cases they get an education with it, so there is no real room to learn some traits you would on the street or anywhere like that. I don't know, maybe I'm chatting jibberish.

I want our players to be sly, the odd elbow, the odd stud down the calf, the whole team rushing in to defend a player on a bad tackle like the one of Mane the other day. I want us to time waste at the appropriate time, I want us to be fucking c*nts. Because, as has been shown time and time again, being a c*nt in this game can take you a long way.
This all day long.

Offline jillcwhomever

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,532
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #982 on: March 1, 2017, 06:19:50 pm »
I think tactics wise, Klopp is up there at the top. If you think of intelligent managers and coaches, he and possibly Pep are the two who are at different levels to others, at least in premier league. Klopp is hampered by players not being consistent enough and not putting same effort every match. Every time we concede or a move fails, you see an expression on Klopp's face as if saying, see I had warned you about this in training. Will buying big names solve our problem of players not implementing tactics properly? I am not sure. He will probably despise having 100M toy like Pogba. The ideal way for him to succeed will be buying young players who can carry out his instructions to T throughout season, like Dortmund guys. Most of our squad can reach that level I am confident but 2-3 more rough gems for him to mould and we can have a fully functioning machine.

Top post.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline didi shamone

  • Too old for fighting
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,228
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #983 on: March 1, 2017, 06:35:01 pm »
Hendo wouldn't of made much of a difference defensively as Leicester bypassed the midfield.  Spurs play through the midfield which is why we were able to outbattle them.

The reason Ndidi looked superb against us is because we try to play through the midfield but do so really slowly against teams that sit in against us.  We played right into Leicester's hands both in attack and defense.

This is one of those narratives that's being repeated so often it's in danger of becoming true.  It creates an image of us pushing relentlessly and Leicester winning posession,  pumping it long and Vardys pace leaving Lucas on his arse. Case closed☺.
Except this happened for none of the goals. Ginis brain fart in midfield  (most likely due to their midfield bullying him) led to vardy latching onto a pass from midfield  to leave Lucas floundering.  The second was an unimpeded shot from that same midfield.  Admittedly a worldie but at least if the player with the third highest amount of tackles in the league was playing we might have tried to block it. No one else seemed up for it.  The third from a cross that our other midfielder might have made more of an effort to stop but he was probably thinking about skin cream. Klopp was nice enough to take him off later, presumably to look for aforementioned cream.
So suffice to say I still believe we lost the midfield battle badly. Yes Indidi..
« Last Edit: March 1, 2017, 06:45:17 pm by didi shamone »

Offline stockdam

  • The sheer loftus-cheek of the man.....
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,362
  • Walk on through the wind, Walk on through the rain
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #984 on: March 1, 2017, 07:45:38 pm »
This is one of those narratives that's being repeated so often it's in danger of becoming true.  It creates an image of us pushing relentlessly and Leicester winning posession,  pumping it long and Vardys pace leaving Lucas on his arse. Case closed☺.
Except this happened for none of the goals. Ginis brain fart in midfield  (most likely due to their midfield bullying him) led to vardy latching onto a pass from midfield  to leave Lucas floundering.  The second was an unimpeded shot from that same midfield.  Admittedly a worldie but at least if the player with the third highest amount of tackles in the league was playing we might have tried to block it. No one else seemed up for it.  The third from a cross that our other midfielder might have made more of an effort to stop but he was probably thinking about skin cream. Klopp was nice enough to take him off later, presumably to look for aforementioned cream.
So suffice to say I still believe we lost the midfield battle badly. Yes Indidi..

Agreed......mostly.

As you implied the first goal was not about Lucas but was all about losing the ball when we were out of shape. None of our defenders (bar maybe Moreno) would have got back to tackle Vardy in time. The other goals were not about Vardy's pace or Lucas's defending.

We didn't lose just midfield..........for 2/3rds of the match we lost nearly every 2nd ball all over the pitch. We also resorted to heading the ball aimlessly when under pressure. When we woke up later, Leicester just sat back and defended.
#JFT97

Offline didi shamone

  • Too old for fighting
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,228
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #985 on: March 1, 2017, 07:54:04 pm »
Agreed......mostly.

As you implied the first goal was not about Lucas but was all about losing the ball when we were out of shape. None of our defenders (bar maybe Moreno) would have got back to tackle Vardy in time. The other goals were not about Vardy's pace or Lucas's defending.

We didn't lose just midfield..........for 2/3rds of the match we lost nearly every 2nd ball all over the pitch. We also resorted to heading the ball aimlessly when under pressure. When we woke up later, Leicester just sat back and defended.

Can't really argue with that. We were bossed all round. I still think mentality plays a part. We've looked like scrappers at times but we seem to sleepwalk into many games.

Offline lukeb1981

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,586
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #986 on: March 1, 2017, 08:08:05 pm »
A couple of times this season Klopp has stated he basically makes a one season contract with a player and if it dosnt work he is gone .I think after the last match a few have pushed that button with him.They had 16 days to prepare , he warned them about leaving Vardy 1v1 with Lucas and about winning the second ball in Midfield ,they did not listen which is another thing he has touched on .You can only tell the same player the same thing so many times and if he is not getting it then you cut your losses. This is a big summer , his Dortmund team generally had a strong defense , he will need to look at that .We have a soft core that needs to addressed. I think we where a bit too quick to offer players new contracts that have purple patches.Maybe its just the club protecting their asset but i for me they would need to show that over a season before any improved terms where offered.

Offline bolusanya

  • Kemlynite
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #987 on: March 1, 2017, 10:32:52 pm »
The pass map shows how good Kasper Schmeichels distribution was for Leicester. He was able to go long accurately and passed very little if at all to his centre backs negating any press on them. It also meant they could get possesion quite high up the pitch. This is something we do very badly and is why we need a goal keeper who can kick well and accurately. It would have relieved a bit of the pressure. Mignolets only out ball seemed to be Matip inviting pressure in the early part of the game

Offline JackWard33

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,725
  • President of the Harry Wilson fanclub
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #988 on: March 1, 2017, 10:43:03 pm »
Really interesting stuff on reverse_ball 's twitter feed about the importance of our other 2 CMs (not the deep lying one) and how their performances (or lack of in Wijnaldam's case) have affected our results.

Offline SerbianScouser

  • Far from world class.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,808
  • ...All the best
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #989 on: March 1, 2017, 10:45:29 pm »
The pass map shows how good Kasper Schmeichels distribution was for Leicester. He was able to go long accurately and passed very little if at all to his centre backs negating any press on them. It also meant they could get possesion quite high up the pitch. This is something we do very badly and is why we need a goal keeper who can kick well and accurately. It would have relieved a bit of the pressure. Mignolets only out ball seemed to be Matip inviting pressure in the early part of the game
His hoofing is killing us. 11 long balls 0 accurate, any teams that press us high up the pitch even a little bit he will just start hoofing it up  field aimlessly and start passing more to opposition players than his own teammates. When a team like Leicester wants to press you high up the pitch you should see it as a good opportunity to pass through them to create good chances but we can't do that with a keeper who's allergic to the ball.

Offline stockdam

  • The sheer loftus-cheek of the man.....
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,362
  • Walk on through the wind, Walk on through the rain
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #990 on: March 1, 2017, 10:50:25 pm »
4 full days of rest is more than ample time for professional footballers to recover for the next game. There's nothing we could have done to avoid rustiness, there is no substitute for a proper match where is how you gain or maintain your match fitness.

I agree but strangely before the Leicester match many were saying that the break would give us an advantage. I would always prefer games than rest.
#JFT97

Offline jillcwhomever

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,532
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #991 on: March 1, 2017, 11:39:55 pm »
I agree but strangely before the Leicester match many were saying that the break would give us an advantage. I would always prefer games than rest.

There are advantages and disadvantages for both. I prefer having the momentum of playings games on a regular basis. I suspect most coaches would as well, once you're out of the habit of playing it can take a game or so before you're back in the flow. That is even before the events at Leicester, which changed everything for their players.

"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline mattD

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,055
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #992 on: March 2, 2017, 01:29:36 am »
Yeah, I agree with that. It's something you are born with. Not to label them all with the same brush but many South American players a perceived as 'snide', but that's a lot to do with their upbringing and where they played their football. You just learn to scrap for balls, to win dirty, to be a sly c*nt. Looking back we've had a few local lads like Stevie and Carra who could be horrible fuckers. I think a lot depends on where you play your football growing up.

This is going to sound stupid perhaps but is the fact that many kids are now playing most of their football in pristine academies up and down the country filtering out the street player in many of them? Many young kids now (in this country at least) play most or all of their football at a club and in some cases they get an education with it, so there is no real room to learn some traits you would on the street or anywhere like that. I don't know, maybe I'm chatting jibberish.

I want our players to be sly, the odd elbow, the odd stud down the calf, the whole team rushing in to defend a player on a bad tackle like the one of Mane the other day. I want us to time waste at the appropriate time, I want us to be fucking c*nts. Because, as has been shown time and time again, being a c*nt in this game can take you a long way.

This is a good point. If you recall the story of Shankly's Glenbuck Cherrypickers, a football club from the tiny mining village in Ayrshire produced many professional footballers- a staggering proportion for such a small community. Shankly himself put it down to the fact that the football pitch in Glenbuck was peppered with stones and a rock hard surface with a thin layer of grass. Such a tough and brutal surface would be nigh on impossible to play on with kids these days - the bruises and grazes the Glenbuck players experienced made them battle hardened as they became professionals in their own right, while the poor playing surface sharpened up their skills to the point that playing on the typical pristine and lush football pitches in England and Scotland's top clubs was like water off a ducks back.

The best analogy you could make is 'free range' vs 'organic'. The 'free range' kids like your battle hardened professionals like Suarez, Gerrard and Fowler developed their skills in a tougher, more rough and tumble environment. I can't remember where I read it but one of these players played with older kids who were bigger and stronger, which helped them shape them into the battle hardened resolute characters they became. Their developed 'street wise' attitudes on the field were clear for all to see - utterly fearless and rampaging who could often win games on their own.

On the other hand, you have the 'organic' kids raised on a set of standards and requirements by the clubs themselves at a very early age. Perhaps this develops more 'intelligent' footballers of a less selfish nature with better ball control and superior team work ethic. However, because of this highly professional and restrictive environment, it doesn't necessarily shape them into the resolute battlers that teams often cry out for in matches.

The sad thing is, I think the 'streetwise' footballer is becoming a thing of the past. I fear the likes of a Gerrard, Suarez or Fowler playing for us again will become ever-increasingly rare. While it is incredibly important that clubs develop players within their own ideals, it is also important that a great team has that 'rogue' individual - the one player that will take a game by the scruff of its neck when it is slipping away from the rest of his team-mates. These characters are essential for a trophy winning team, and at the moment, I don't think Jurgen has anyone like this to rely on.
« Last Edit: March 2, 2017, 01:31:57 am by mattD »

Offline Coolie High

  • bury Regular. My opinions are facts, FYI. (whisper it but doesn't understand midfielders)
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,606
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #993 on: March 2, 2017, 09:11:26 am »
OK I was looking at the lack of impact from his substitutes, I agree his in-game management has been poor most games. One or two substitutions per game and usually late in the game, it’s very odd.

I’m still surprised players like Ojo and Wilson weren’t integrated into the team/squad earlier in the season to prepare them for Mane’s absence. It would have made far more sense for one of them to come into the team in January, with their directness and pace, and kept Lallana in midfield where he was performing well. Instead we ended up shifting Lallana into the forward line and had three players all wanting the ball played to feet.

This is it, its easy to bemoan the lack of depth, but even Ferguson was having to bring  a 17 year old Macheda to win him the league, really one of Wilson or Ojo especially wilson should have already been in and around the subs bench before Manes absence like you said, even having Woodburn ahead of him as an attacker is a poor choice imo, one is far more suited to being a super sub with his pace trickery and directness but he doesn't get a chance.

Offline Cpt_Reina

  • Vibranium goalie gloves.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,606
  • YNWA
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #994 on: March 2, 2017, 10:16:59 am »
Tactics? Plural?

 ;D

Offline JackWard33

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,725
  • President of the Harry Wilson fanclub
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #995 on: March 2, 2017, 10:17:21 am »
This is it, its easy to bemoan the lack of depth, but even Ferguson was having to bring  a 17 year old Macheda to win him the league, really one of Wilson or Ojo especially wilson should have already been in and around the subs bench before Manes absence like you said, even having Woodburn ahead of him as an attacker is a poor choice imo, one is far more suited to being a super sub with his pace trickery and directness but he doesn't get a chance.

In fairness United had a lot of injuries when the Macheda farce happened didn't they.... also why are we talking about it its like a rape memory?!!?!!?

In general though I agree with your point. It's been pretty odd given Klopp and people around the clubs insistence earlier in the year that we had a crop of amazing younger players who could fill the gaps how little they've been used. Maybe none of Ejaria, Ojo, Wilson, Woodburn, Gomes and Trent are good enough or ready but if that's the case it makes the squad strategy for this year look even more confused.

Offline Chris~

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,470
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #996 on: March 2, 2017, 10:35:44 am »
In fairness United had a lot of injuries when the Macheda farce happened didn't they.... also why are we talking about it its like a rape memory?!!?!!?

In general though I agree with your point. It's been pretty odd given Klopp and people around the clubs insistence earlier in the year that we had a crop of amazing younger players who could fill the gaps how little they've been used. Maybe none of Ejaria, Ojo, Wilson, Woodburn, Gomes and Trent are good enough or ready but if that's the case it makes the squad strategy for this year look even more confused.
He'd have surely seen enough of Ojo last season to make a decent judgement for this season. And if Ejaria, woodburn and trent weren't ready it seems weird to keep putting them on the bench instead of calling up other players to see if they're more ready.

Offline surfer. Fuck you generator.

  • surgood. As good as Suarez but CBA to play for us. Takes it on the chin and never holds a pointless grudge for several months.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,206
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #997 on: March 2, 2017, 11:21:15 am »
This is a good point. If you recall the story of Shankly's Glenbuck Cherrypickers, a football club from the tiny mining village in Ayrshire produced many professional footballers- a staggering proportion for such a small community. Shankly himself put it down to the fact that the football pitch in Glenbuck was peppered with stones and a rock hard surface with a thin layer of grass. Such a tough and brutal surface would be nigh on impossible to play on with kids these days - the bruises and grazes the Glenbuck players experienced made them battle hardened as they became professionals in their own right, while the poor playing surface sharpened up their skills to the point that playing on the typical pristine and lush football pitches in England and Scotland's top clubs was like water off a ducks back.

The best analogy you could make is 'free range' vs 'organic'. The 'free range' kids like your battle hardened professionals like Suarez, Gerrard and Fowler developed their skills in a tougher, more rough and tumble environment. I can't remember where I read it but one of these players played with older kids who were bigger and stronger, which helped them shape them into the battle hardened resolute characters they became. Their developed 'street wise' attitudes on the field were clear for all to see - utterly fearless and rampaging who could often win games on their own.

On the other hand, you have the 'organic' kids raised on a set of standards and requirements by the clubs themselves at a very early age. Perhaps this develops more 'intelligent' footballers of a less selfish nature with better ball control and superior team work ethic. However, because of this highly professional and restrictive environment, it doesn't necessarily shape them into the resolute battlers that teams often cry out for in matches.

The sad thing is, I think the 'streetwise' footballer is becoming a thing of the past. I fear the likes of a Gerrard, Suarez or Fowler playing for us again will become ever-increasingly rare. While it is incredibly important that clubs develop players within their own ideals, it is also important that a great team has that 'rogue' individual - the one player that will take a game by the scruff of its neck when it is slipping away from the rest of his team-mates. These characters are essential for a trophy winning team, and at the moment, I don't think Jurgen has anyone like this to rely on.

I was thinking about this earlier as well to try to explain Wijnaldum's desire to just.....be. Existence is purpose. ;D

 You check his bio up, he is someone who started with a club at 6, his journey in the game is practically the gold standard for a football academy product. He's got it all technically to be the perfect link midfielder in a 4-3-3. At a push, he can operate higher up as a backup option, if he ever gets aggressive and direct enough. He doesn't seem to have that bone in his body though.
« Last Edit: March 2, 2017, 11:23:25 am by surfer. Fuck you generator. »

Offline Wool

  • eBack
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,321
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #998 on: March 2, 2017, 11:27:56 am »
His hoofing is killing us. 11 long balls 0 accurate, any teams that press us high up the pitch even a little bit he will just start hoofing it up  field aimlessly and start passing more to opposition players than his own teammates. When a team like Leicester wants to press you high up the pitch you should see it as a good opportunity to pass through them to create good chances but we can't do that with a keeper who's allergic to the ball.
We can't really do it with midfielders who completely disappear whenever the opposition puts pressure on them either.

Offline SerbianScouser

  • Far from world class.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,808
  • ...All the best
Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #999 on: March 2, 2017, 02:23:23 pm »
We can't really do it with midfielders who completely disappear whenever the opposition puts pressure on them either.
We wouldn't be second team in the league possession wise if our midfield wasn't technically good. Lads at the back right now are a huge problem.