Author Topic: Liverpool's Midfield  (Read 1792595 times)

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19760 on: October 24, 2023, 02:36:15 pm »
So if they only score the same number of goals and provide the same number of assists as our midfield last season but we go on to win the league and EL have they had a bad season? Because you only focussing on goals and assists would say that they have

We can already see we have a much better midfield than last season (and arguably the year before as well) so I don't know where this lack of goals and assists shite has come from (which ignores the goals and assists in other comps as well)
You're arguing against something miles off from what I was talking about.

I was just challenging the notion that underlying numbers are more important than actual ones because when it comes to attacking players you use actual numbers to measure their production and underlying numbers to figure out if they can sustain or improve their numbers. That is all.

As a sidenote I'm over the moon with our new midfield.


Offline jepovic

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19761 on: October 24, 2023, 03:17:54 pm »
As usual, most if the debate revolves around our attack. Our midfield is more mobile and skilled than last years, sure

However, I think the biggest improvement has been in defense. We have conceded an average of 1 goal per match, which is league winning levels. We have done this despite the red cards.

We have also done this without Alisson saving us to the same extent as last year. Not that he hasnt been excellent  but he has been less busy

Offline newterp

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19762 on: October 24, 2023, 03:37:54 pm »
As usual, most if the debate revolves around our attack. Our midfield is more mobile and skilled than last years, sure

However, I think the biggest improvement has been in defense. We have conceded an average of 1 goal per match, which is league winning levels. We have done this despite the red cards.

We have also done this without Alisson saving us to the same extent as last year. Not that he hasnt been excellent  but he has been less busy

improvement in defense is partially attributable to the improvement in the midfield - right?

Offline jepovic

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19763 on: October 24, 2023, 03:39:59 pm »
improvement in defense is partially attributable to the improvement in the midfield - right?
Yes of course, that's what this thread is about.
The defenders are the same.

Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19764 on: October 25, 2023, 03:07:37 am »
Would love to see us try a 4-2-2-2

Alisson
Trent Konate VvD Robbo
Alexis Curtis
Szoboz         Diaz
Salah   Nunez


Would really benefit McAllister to play alongside Curtis who has loads of energy and let Diaz make the runs from deep he seems to enjoy

Offline Gus 1855

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19765 on: October 26, 2023, 09:56:41 pm »
You've got to love our midfield at the moment.

Szoboszlai
Mac Allister
Endo
Gravenberch
Elliot
Jones
Thiago
Bajectic

That is some mix of talent.
It looks to me as if we have signed another 'average' player. I'll hold back my complete opinion until I see the lad play

Online lgvkarlos

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19766 on: October 26, 2023, 10:01:34 pm »
You've got to love our midfield at the moment.

Szoboszlai
Mac Allister
Endo
Gravenberch
Elliot
Jones
Thiago
Bajectic

That is some mix of talent.
We are so spoilt in midfield and and attack, coming years are going to be exciting.

Offline BobPaisley3

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19767 on: October 26, 2023, 10:57:01 pm »
In terms of balance, I’d be intrigued to see Endo, Slobbo and Grav together.
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Offline blamski

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19768 on: October 27, 2023, 09:55:58 am »
You've got to love our midfield at the moment.

Szoboszlai
Mac Allister
Endo
Gravenberch
Elliot
Jones
Thiago
Bajectic

That is some mix of talent.

its nuts. especially considering half of it is a rebuild we've done this summer. for me, Szoboszlai, Mac Allister and Gravenberch is the strongest starting 3 - even though it seems bonkers leaving Thiago Alcantara out of a list of best midfielders. Endo and Jones are right up there as well in terms of quality, while Harvey is also impressing. What a great problem to have.... finally.

Offline God's Left Peg

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19769 on: October 27, 2023, 10:00:16 am »
We are a world away from the tired, dour setup we had last year, it's been one hell of a rebuild and one that I don't think our rivals saw coming. I know I didn't. Not like this anyway.
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Offline BobPaisley3

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19770 on: October 27, 2023, 10:05:26 am »
We are a world away from the tired, dour setup we had last year, it's been one hell of a rebuild and one that I don't think our rivals saw coming. I know I didn't. Not like this anyway.
All 25 and under with the exception of Thiago and Endo.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19771 on: October 27, 2023, 10:14:16 am »
We are a world away from the tired, dour setup we had last year, it's been one hell of a rebuild and one that I don't think our rivals saw coming. I know I didn't. Not like this anyway.

Yep watching them actually run and beat men with the ball is such a huge and positive change.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19772 on: November 2, 2023, 10:44:09 pm »
Thinking about our squad, I think we could lose both Matip and Thiago without missing a beat. Other than Salah, we have at least adequate alternatives for every other position in the team, who are good enough to push existing first choicers to continue performing or else lose their place.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19773 on: November 2, 2023, 11:07:08 pm »
Thinking about our squad, I think we could lose both Matip and Thiago without missing a beat. Other than Salah, we have at least adequate alternatives for every other position in the team, who are good enough to push existing first choicers to continue performing or else lose their place.
We’d be insane not to replace Joel if he went.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19774 on: November 2, 2023, 11:15:20 pm »
I’m still excited by the prospect of Thiago on the same pitch as Dom. We may not have missed him but that doesn’t mean he can’t add something to our midfield while he’s still with us
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19775 on: November 2, 2023, 11:28:00 pm »
I’m still excited by the prospect of Thiago on the same pitch as Dom. We may not have missed him but that doesn’t mean he can’t add something to our midfield while he’s still with us

Is he ever coming back?  Juergen seems to dismiss questions about him at pressers.  Never seen at home games.   Virgil had his knee almost snapped in half by Pickshite in Oct 2020 and was back playing in pre season 21/22.     Thiago had hip surgery 9 months ago now and is always suffering "small setbacks".


I honestly believe he has played his last game for the club.   


Lesson learned, never keep a permacrock in the last year of their contracts.   They have no motivation to get themselves fit and firing.    Naby & Ox were the same last year.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19776 on: November 2, 2023, 11:29:06 pm »
Would love to see us try a 4-2-2-2

Alisson
Trent Konate VvD Robbo
Alexis Curtis
Szoboz         Diaz
Salah   Nunez


That looks delicous.  I'd swap Curtis for Andre in the double pivot to really have a cracking team.
Would really benefit McAllister to play alongside Curtis who has loads of energy and let Diaz make the runs from deep he seems to enjoy
Klopp that!

Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19777 on: November 3, 2023, 12:05:48 am »
Just think, if we'd have spent more money we could have had Caicedo and Lavia
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19778 on: November 3, 2023, 12:46:11 am »
We’d be insane not to replace Joel if he went.

In terms of quality, Van Dijk, Konate, Gomez and Quansah are good enough as 4 CBs. Any changes we now make will be to deliberately direct the squad, rather than filling in gaps. We'll be adding through choice, rather than necessity.
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Offline ljycb

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19779 on: November 3, 2023, 01:04:40 am »
In terms of quality, Van Dijk, Konate, Gomez and Quansah are good enough as 4 CBs. Any changes we now make will be to deliberately direct the squad, rather than filling in gaps. We'll be adding through choice, rather than necessity.

I would replace Matip with an incoming player (given that Virgil is getting older every day) and use Gomez as someone who can play across the back four, and that is why I am not in charge of decision making at the club.

Offline aussie_ox

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19780 on: November 3, 2023, 02:12:24 am »
Yes, Matip must be replaced when he goes. 


Ideally we need Van Dijk's successor to play 2 seasons alongside and as his understudy.   I expect Van Dijk will probably leave us in 2026.   
Klopp that!

Offline ljycb

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19781 on: November 3, 2023, 02:26:18 am »
Yes, Matip must be replaced when he goes. 


Ideally we need Van Dijk's successor to play 2 seasons alongside and as his understudy.   I expect Van Dijk will probably leave us in 2026.

I think if fitness is kind to him then Ibou is the Virgil replacement really. He is fantastic. But it's all about planning ahead.

Offline mattD

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19782 on: November 3, 2023, 02:52:40 am »
Just think, if we'd have spent more money we could have had Caicedo and Lavia

Yes but they also have weak mentalities given they went to Chelsea for the money.

Give it a few years, Caicedo will be a lost talent where critics will say greed stopped him from becoming an elite player while Lavia will be completely forgotten.

I wouldn't touch the pair with a barge pole if they were offered up. Don't need weaklings like them at the club.
« Last Edit: November 3, 2023, 02:54:28 am by mattD »

Offline carling

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19783 on: November 3, 2023, 05:33:36 am »
Lesson learned, never keep a permacrock in the last year of their contracts.   They have no motivation to get themselves fit and firing.    Naby & Ox were the same last year.

The difference is that Naby never really made it at the level we needed.  And when the Ox did reach those heights, an important part of it was the pace, power and agility that a knee ligament damage can sadly take away.

On the other hand Thiago has been a central part of some of the best football we've seen under Klopp, and his attributes aren't going to be taken away the same by injuries.  He's at his best when he has lots of pace around him and is able to use his intelligence and technique to find them in the right places.  I wouldn't want to write him off just yet.

Offline spider-neil

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19784 on: November 3, 2023, 05:40:35 am »
Yes but they also have weak mentalities given they went to Chelsea for the money.

Give it a few years, Caicedo will be a lost talent where critics will say greed stopped him from becoming an elite player while Lavia will be completely forgotten.

I wouldn't touch the pair with a barge pole if they were offered up. Don't need weaklings like them at the club.

To be fair, Chelsea were courting Caicedo for months (maybe even a year). Lavia is the annoying one. He must have known he would have been given more opportunities at Liverpool than Chelsea. Sure, we messed him around but so what?

Offline spider-neil

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19785 on: November 3, 2023, 05:43:18 am »
The difference is that Naby never really made it at the level we needed.  And when the Ox did reach those heights, an important part of it was the pace, power and agility that a knee ligament damage can sadly take away.

On the other hand Thiago has been a central part of some of the best football we've seen under Klopp, and his attributes aren't going to be taken away the same by injuries.  He's at his best when he has lots of pace around him and is able to use his intelligence and technique to find them in the right places.  I wouldn't want to write him off just yet.

Each to their own but I didn’t have a problem with Keita’s performances when fit (which admittedly was hardly ever). I thought he was excellent in the quadruple chasing season especially in Europe.

Offline carling

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19786 on: November 3, 2023, 06:40:39 am »
Each to their own but I didn’t have a problem with Keita’s performances when fit (which admittedly was hardly ever). I thought he was excellent in the quadruple chasing season especially in Europe.

He had some good games and flashes but just thought we didn't see enough of it.  It was like he was 'almost' the complete midfielder but it never quite happened, I don't think the league was for him.  A clear cut below what we have now - I'd have him 7th or 8th choice in today's midfield even if he was fit.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19787 on: November 3, 2023, 06:44:22 am »
To be fair, Chelsea were courting Caicedo for months (maybe even a year). Lavia is the annoying one. He must have known he would have been given more opportunities at Liverpool than Chelsea. Sure, we messed him around but so what?

I don't even think of Lavia now. Once we get a proper 6 in, we basically have everything we need.
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Offline spider-neil

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19788 on: November 3, 2023, 07:07:47 am »
I don't even think of Lavia now. Once we get a proper 6 in, we basically have everything we need.

Which he could have been for us. Whatever, what’s done is done. This could have played out so differently if Southampton would have just accepted our third offer. That said, maybe if that happens we don’t bring In Gravenberch and right now I know which one I would rather have.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19789 on: November 3, 2023, 01:08:40 pm »
I would replace Matip with an incoming player (given that Virgil is getting older every day) and use Gomez as someone who can play across the back four, and that is why I am not in charge of decision making at the club.
You’d be right. Many successful clubs have a Gomez type who can play anywhere across the back.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19790 on: November 9, 2023, 11:53:54 pm »
Was that the smallest midfield in Liverpool history tonight
Endo, Mac and Elliot
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19791 on: November 11, 2023, 11:11:26 am »
I still miss a holding midlfield player like Fabinho was. Endo is okay but not at Top-Level.
For me a defensiv thinking man in the midlefield would give us more stability.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19792 on: December 9, 2023, 03:12:20 pm »
Starting to get regress back to last seasons level of performances in the last few games. Couldn’t progress the ball at all until Palace went down to 10 men. Every time we we reached the attacked third the ball ended up back with the centre backs.

Even against 10 men we only created one decent chance.

The good thing is we have options off the bench now.
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Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19793 on: December 12, 2023, 07:57:04 pm »
Thiago - Trent - Dom

The stuff the dreams are made of.

Offline spider-neil

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19794 on: December 14, 2023, 08:39:57 am »
Starting to get regress back to last seasons level of performances in the last few games. Couldn’t progress the ball at all until Palace went down to 10 men. Every time we we reached the attacked third the ball ended up back with the centre backs.

Even against 10 men we only created one decent chance.

The good thing is we have options off the bench now.

The frequency of games and also the midfield overhaul should be a consideration. Gravenberch barely played last season and I think it’s catching up with him now. Dom also looks tired.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19795 on: December 14, 2023, 09:51:32 pm »
The frequency of games and also the midfield overhaul should be a consideration. Gravenberch barely played last season and I think it’s catching up with him now. Dom also looks tired.
That's a serious worry when we aren't yet half way through the season.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19796 on: December 14, 2023, 10:15:24 pm »
That's a serious worry when we aren't yet half way through the season.


The winter break will help.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19797 on: December 14, 2023, 10:47:51 pm »
The winter break will help.

As will the rest for them this week. We’ve got four games to go before the schedule eases up and we have a break from a game every three days, 3 of them at home with 1 in the cup.

Strongest side for Man Utd, Arsenal, Burnley and a rotated side with 30 off the bench if needed in the West Ham game, then we get to play one game in 11 days, before a max of two more and then the winter break. That time can be used to refresh and refocus on areas of improvement, right not, Klopp is getting none of that time as it literally all play, rest, recover, tactical overview, play.

 This period is a war of attrition and we’ve got the squad to manage it, but as with everyone, injuries and fatigue starts to hit at this point, particularly for newbies to the league. If we play it right though, this could be where the league is won, and we can open up a buffer.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19798 on: December 14, 2023, 10:51:25 pm »
As will the rest for them this week. We’ve got four games to go before the schedule eases up and we have a break from a game every three days, 3 of them at home with 1 in the cup.

Strongest side for Man Utd, Arsenal, Burnley and a rotated side with 30 off the bench if needed in the West Ham game, then we get to play one game in 11 days, before a max of two more and then the winter break. That time can be used to refresh and refocus on areas of improvement, right not, Klopp is getting none of that time as it literally all play, rest, recover, tactical overview, play.

 This period is a war of attrition and we’ve got the squad to manage it, but as with everyone, injuries and fatigue starts to hit at this point, particularly for newbies to the league. If we play it right though, this could be where the league is won, and we can open up a buffer.

That'll certainly give Moyes something to whinge about. :D

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19799 on: December 15, 2023, 10:00:06 am »
As will the rest for them this week. We’ve got four games to go before the schedule eases up and we have a break from a game every three days, 3 of them at home with 1 in the cup.

Strongest side for Man Utd, Arsenal, Burnley and a rotated side with 30 off the bench if needed in the West Ham game, then we get to play one game in 11 days, before a max of two more and then the winter break. That time can be used to refresh and refocus on areas of improvement, right not, Klopp is getting none of that time as it literally all play, rest, recover, tactical overview, play.

 This period is a war of attrition and we’ve got the squad to manage it, but as with everyone, injuries and fatigue starts to hit at this point, particularly for newbies to the league. If we play it right though, this could be where the league is won, and we can open up a buffer.

Im pretty sure there will be a decent amount of rotation against Burnley.