Author Topic: Liverpool's Midfield  (Read 1788704 times)

Offline alvaro

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19520 on: August 11, 2023, 07:37:37 pm »
The way the club is being run is beyond a joke. Has been since we let Lovren go without a proper replacement.

Offline Oldmanmick

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19521 on: August 11, 2023, 07:41:07 pm »
Remember Lou Macari turning us down in the early 70's, don't remember many more though but there was probably a few more over the years.

I remember it well. It was January 1973 & he was all set to sign but Man United came in for him at the last minute & he went there believing he had more chance of winning trophies at Old Trafford. 12 months later, United, & Macari, suffered the humiliation of relegation whilst we'd won the league & UEFA Cup a few months after Lou had turned us down. We were also set for one of our most successful periods in the club's history.

Unlucky Lou.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19522 on: August 11, 2023, 07:49:03 pm »
The way the club is being run is beyond a joke. Has been since we let Lovren go without a proper replacement.

This close season has been really strange. Getting MacAlistair early and at a great price, then offering the asking price for Szoboszolai and doing a speedy deal followed by the latest embarrassments; it's as if there were two different negociation teams at work. You have to wonder what involvement Schmadtke has had in these deals as the Lavia saga followed by today's circus is just so bad and not what characterised transfers under Edwards and latterly Ward.

Offline Lad

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19523 on: August 11, 2023, 07:50:59 pm »
Remember Lou Macari turning us down in the early 70's, don't remember many more though but there was probably a few more over the years.

Charlie Nicholas was nailed on to sign for us but was swayed by the bright lights of (north) London.

Offline David in Edinburgh

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19524 on: August 11, 2023, 08:22:06 pm »
Charlie Nicholas was nailed on to sign for us but was swayed by the bright lights of (north) London.

Certainly dodged a bullet there. Did Desailly not pick those gobshites over us because they were in London.

Offline Pete1977LFC

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19525 on: August 11, 2023, 08:30:09 pm »
People have home from putting him formations to utter despair - without any evidence to back either position..

He hadn't signed yet so we shouldn't have jumped the gun. Apart from the clickbait merchants, we have no evidence that anything has changed since Klopp confirmed the agreement. So jumping the gun again.

We just need to wait and see what happens. Chill. 


Offline Keith Lard

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19526 on: August 11, 2023, 08:37:04 pm »
People have home from putting him formations to utter despair - without any evidence to back either position..

He hadn't signed yet so we shouldn't have jumped the gun. Apart from the clickbait merchants, we have no evidence that anything has changed since Klopp confirmed the agreement. So jumping the gun again.

We just need to wait and see what happens. Chill. 



Youíd be surprised how many are not despairing. Once the novelty wears off, these are just footballers.

As long as the club keep searching for long term solutions and do their best, Iím quite excited to see lads within the squad being given a chance to prove themselves in the position in the meantime. Sometimes this is the only way a player can get their chance. Bajcetic being a prime example. Maybe we unearth another Bajcetic level talent from this testing situation.
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Online Oh Jimmy Jimmy

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19527 on: August 11, 2023, 09:36:37 pm »
Charlie Nicholas was nailed on to sign for us but was swayed by the bright lights of (north) London.

That was the weird summer of 1983 when Trevor Steven choose Everton over us, a young Michael Laudrup choose Juve, and Paul McStay didnít make the move to eventually become Soueyís successor. We also lost the Charity Shield to the Mancs and the press were saying we were in terminal decline.

We went on to win the treble of course - as good as the 99 and 23 trebles as the top sides took the League Cup more seriously than they do the FA Cup these days.

Online David Struhme

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19528 on: August 11, 2023, 10:39:34 pm »
Problem now is that Southampton know we've got 110m in our back pocket so suddenly their asking price for Lavia has gone up to 60-70m.
Should've just paid Lavia's asking price when it was 50m and got on with it

Offline Lord Roger Hunt

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19529 on: August 12, 2023, 12:37:03 am »
LFC are not daft and I think (hope) the team have boxed very clever here, as itís interesting our offer is quite precise.

Chelseaís P&L over the last few years are readily available, as is their transfer spend, so weíll know that matching or going beyond our offer will push Chelsea beyond the FFP limit.

So, either Chelsea take that risk in order not to lose face or they fail to match our offer and, with no other place to go, he signs for us - or he stays where he is.  Weíll see but it looks like Chelsea have been stung and now itís all about their Ownerís ego, so financial common sense is replaced by hot anger.

Preferably, if the lad wants Chelsea, so be it, Iíd bin our interest (although he might be an innocent victim of his agentís Machiavellian machinations).
« Last Edit: August 12, 2023, 09:02:05 am by Lord Roger Hunt »
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Offline Oldmanmick

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19530 on: August 12, 2023, 12:28:13 pm »
LFC are not daft and I think (hope) the team have boxed very clever here, as itís interesting our offer is quite precise.

Chelseaís P&L over the last few years are readily available, as is their transfer spend, so weíll know that matching or going beyond our offer will push Chelsea beyond the FFP limit.

So, either Chelsea take that risk in order not to lose face or they fail to match our offer and, with no other place to go, he signs for us - or he stays where he is.  Weíll see but it looks like Chelsea have been stung and now itís all about their Ownerís ego, so financial common sense is replaced by hot anger.

Preferably, if the lad wants Chelsea, so be it, Iíd bin our interest (although he might be an innocent victim of his agentís Machiavellian machinations).

What Chelsea's new owners have been doing is using amortization to keep within the FFP limits. They've been spreading the transfer fee & wages over a prolonged period of time. Not only that they've been able to spread this money over a ridiculous time period. However, UEFA have now closed that loophole & clubs can only do this for a maximum of 5 years. It got me thinking as to why, if the lad is really keen to go Chelsea, & aforementioned club are able to - within FFP regulations - top our offer of £111 million, then why haven't they got this boxed off ?

Offline Red1976

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19531 on: August 12, 2023, 01:58:46 pm »
Have we as a club really bid a British record amount for a player that doesn't want to come to us if reports are true. If so then the club will look really stupid. Surely you establish the players wants to come to you before bidding? It looks like we might have to match Southampton's valuation for Lavia if they wish to replenish our midfield options.

By all  accounts the club approached the agent and he said his client was happy to join Liverpool. That might just be the agent being Machiavellian, and if it is then Chelsea will need to fork out loads more than us to buy Caicedo.  As for Lavia, rumours have it that the club and Saints are still in contact - so I assume Lavia is the fall-back option at £50million as original asked for by Saints. 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2023, 02:02:38 pm by Red1976 »

Offline Red1976

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19532 on: August 12, 2023, 02:01:58 pm »
Rest of the budget?

Thatís it til 2027!

Nah! If you believe the media Klopp has said he wants a centre back next season, and we will probably look at getting a right back as well (unless Ramsey suddenly gets more game time?). 

Offline Cormack Snr

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19533 on: August 12, 2023, 07:36:41 pm »
I remember it well. It was January 1973 & he was all set to sign but Man United came in for him at the last minute & he went there believing he had more chance of winning trophies at Old Trafford. 12 months later, United, & Macari, suffered the humiliation of relegation whilst we'd won the league & UEFA Cup a few months after Lou had turned us down. We were also set for one of our most successful periods in the club's history.

Unlucky Lou.
I remember people saying it was because they were a Catholic club, The Kop was always 50/50 when we sang Rangers/Celtic.

Offline ac

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19534 on: August 12, 2023, 08:56:37 pm »
While I'd love Caicedo to come I think one upside is that we can stretch our money to get more players. We are probably letting Lavia go to Chelsea because we have a more experienced number 6 in mind. I'd be amazed if we do not get an defensive midfielder and a defender in. If we didnt that would mean we are prepared to write this season off which I dont think Klopp would accept


Offline Eeyore

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19535 on: August 12, 2023, 09:05:41 pm »
LFC are not daft and I think (hope) the team have boxed very clever here, as itís interesting our offer is quite precise.

Chelseaís P&L over the last few years are readily available, as is their transfer spend, so weíll know that matching or going beyond our offer will push Chelsea beyond the FFP limit.

So, either Chelsea take that risk in order not to lose face or they fail to match our offer and, with no other place to go, he signs for us - or he stays where he is.  Weíll see but it looks like Chelsea have been stung and now itís all about their Ownerís ego, so financial common sense is replaced by hot anger.

Preferably, if the lad wants Chelsea, so be it, Iíd bin our interest (although he might be an innocent victim of his agentís Machiavellian machinations).

The Profits and Losses do not include permissible deductions allowed under both FFP and P&S though. You also can't tell which players Chelsea will sell this summer or in January or what commercial deals they will sign.

So you would essentially just be guessing.

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Offline Nick110581

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19536 on: August 12, 2023, 09:52:27 pm »
Problem now is that Southampton know we've got 110m in our back pocket so suddenly their asking price for Lavia has gone up to 60-70m.
Should've just paid Lavia's asking price when it was 50m and got on with it

Thatís untrue.
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Offline deadsetred

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19537 on: August 12, 2023, 10:07:42 pm »
The issue we have now is that we're likely (given the market) to need to a) to get a kid in with a high ceiling but limited experience to play the 6 role, or b) get in someone mediocre but with more experience to play it for the next couple of years (e.g. Docoure), while Bajetic learns his trade. Given how few teams seem to win silverware without an elite 6, it does seem to put us in an awkward position. Really understand why we threw the kitchen sink at Caicedo now, and are probably regreting selling Fab all things considered.

Offline Redbonnie

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19538 on: August 12, 2023, 10:08:12 pm »
We are the club who replaced Keegan with Dalglish, and made him do a trial at 26. Caceido can go fuck himself.  Watch this space and donít stress. We will come out of this on top.

Offline farawayred

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19539 on: August 12, 2023, 10:16:24 pm »
We are the club who replaced Keegan with Dalglish, and made him do a trial at 26. Caceido can go fuck himself.  Watch this space and donít stress. We will come out of this on top.
Yes, but times were different back then. And we were in a position of strength.
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Offline amir87

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19540 on: August 13, 2023, 12:23:23 am »
Absolutely imperative we donít get to 1st September without a defensive midfielder in the squad. I know Bajcetic is a talent and can play there but if we are solely reliant on an 18 year old to anchor our midfield weíre asking for trouble.

Offline kim66

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19541 on: August 13, 2023, 04:42:10 am »
I hope Caicedo watches the game before deciding, and we batter them.

Offline hide5seek

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19542 on: August 13, 2023, 04:49:20 am »
We are the club who replaced Keegan with Dalglish, and made him do a trial at 26. Caceido can go fuck himself.  Watch this space and donít stress. We will come out of this on top.
Pretty sure Dalglish's trial with us was when he was 16/17 and not at the age of 26.

Offline mapleleaf56

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19543 on: August 13, 2023, 05:01:03 am »
We are the club who replaced Keegan with Dalglish, and made him do a trial at 26. Caceido can go fuck himself.  Watch this space and donít stress. We will come out of this on top.

Not sure where you got that information from but itís wrong.. Dalglish did have a trial with us but it was in 1966.
In 1966, 11 years before they broke the British transfer record to sign him, Liverpool took Kenny Dalglish on trial. The future 'King Kenny', then a chubby 15-year-old, stayed only a few days, and the highlight was being given a lift back to his hostel by Bill Shankly.

Offline BTGH

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19544 on: August 13, 2023, 06:08:58 am »
Was just a season or two ago Tyler Morton was the touted successor for the #6 position,  what happened to him? Him and Bacjetic aren't that much different physically and stylistically when played in the #6 position

Offline lionel_messias

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19545 on: August 13, 2023, 07:51:42 am »
Get Doucoure from Palace. Has a lot of what we need.
Overpay if neccesary, we have the forward talent, just need balance.
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Offline The Test

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19546 on: August 13, 2023, 08:09:49 am »
Thatís untrue.

Yeah. And incredibly dull reading it every 5 minutes. The one thing Southampton know implicitly is that we wonít go above our set value for a player.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19547 on: August 13, 2023, 08:11:11 am »
Get Doucoure from Palace. Has a lot of what we need.
Overpay if neccesary, we have the forward talent, just need balance.

No.

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19548 on: August 13, 2023, 08:11:57 am »
Get Doucoure from Palace. Has a lot of what we need.
Overpay if neccesary, we have the forward talent, just need balance.
No.
What KH said.

Offline lionel_messias

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19549 on: August 13, 2023, 08:15:12 am »
No.

Elaborate then. Give us options you would go for.
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Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19550 on: August 13, 2023, 08:17:08 am »
Elaborate then. Give us options you would go for.
Do you watch alot of Palace? What does he excel in? His price tag I saw figures of £50-70 million iirc. Is he that good? I'd never really noticed him.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19551 on: August 13, 2023, 08:17:25 am »
Elaborate then. Give us options you would go for.

Im not sure. But we cant just overpay for a player who I dont believe is good enough. There are no obvious really good defensive midfielders around. There are players i like that I think can do a job like Gravenberch or Fofana, but not sure they are what we need.

Offline Nick110581

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19552 on: August 13, 2023, 08:21:31 am »
Elaborate then. Give us options you would go for.

Keep pour powder dry if thereís no one good enough.
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Offline plura

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19553 on: August 13, 2023, 08:21:38 am »
Im not sure. But we cant just overpay for a player who I dont believe is good enough. There are no obvious really good defensive midfielders around. There are players i like that I think can do a job like Gravenberch or Fofana, but not sure they are what we need.

to be honest Caicedo kinda seemed like the perfect player for us in some ways. The defensive side, the speed, agility and ball progression. But from our scouts view Lavia seems as talented or even more. But obviously one or two seasons behind Caicedo, with obviously also the need to go from talent to proven quality.

Iíd be happy with Lavia and then maybe Andre in January or some other unknown player.

Offline deadsetred

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19554 on: August 13, 2023, 08:22:04 am »
Im not sure. But we cant just overpay for a player who I dont believe is good enough. There are no obvious really good defensive midfielders around. There are players i like that I think can do a job like Gravenberch or Fofana, but not sure they are what we need.

This is the issue I mentioned I above though. We've put ourselves into a situation where, given the lack of available word class DMs, the exact player we need is basically a Fabinho for 40m odd to oversee the growth of a Lavia until he's ready. Ironic how we literally just sold the guy we now need because we sold him.


Offline Nick110581

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19555 on: August 13, 2023, 08:26:22 am »
This is the issue I mentioned I above though. We've put ourselves into a situation where, given the lack of available word class DMs, the exact player we need is basically a Fabinho for 40m odd to oversee the growth of a Lavia until he's ready. Ironic how we literally just sold the guy we now need because we sold him.



But you would have sold Fab for that figure.

His legs had gone.
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Offline GreatEx

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19556 on: August 13, 2023, 08:30:52 am »
Was just a season or two ago Tyler Morton was the touted successor for the #6 position,  what happened to him? Him and Bacjetic aren't that much different physically and stylistically when played in the #6 position

Did many people seriously consider him to be Fab's successor? No doubt there would have been hyperbole after he didn't look completely lost in the first team. Personally I'd have been thrilled if he'd emerged as a squad depth option. I have no clue if he's on track to reach that level, most of what I've read about his Blackburn loan suggests not.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19557 on: August 13, 2023, 08:52:02 am »
This is the issue I mentioned I above though. We've put ourselves into a situation where, given the lack of available word class DMs, the exact player we need is basically a Fabinho for 40m odd to oversee the growth of a Lavia until he's ready. Ironic how we literally just sold the guy we now need because we sold him.



No because that would be us compounding a mistake with another.

Offline Knight

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19558 on: August 13, 2023, 08:58:30 am »
Yeah Fabinho is really bad now. Weíd have been playing Bacjetic, Lavia, Thiago all ahead of him most likely.

Offline deadsetred

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19559 on: August 13, 2023, 09:17:33 am »
Not sure I agree with all this re Fab. Was he good enough to challenge for a title? probably not, but realistically that's not where we're at this season. Would he have been enough to get us into top 4, given the other additions, while nurturing a Lavia who could then step in next season? I really think so.

Opportunity cost of this is ~40m max, but to me that superior than spending 65m on a Doucoure to plug a hole for a season.