Author Topic: Heading football causes brain damage  (Read 2181 times)

Offline elsewhere

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Heading football causes brain damage
« on: February 15, 2017, 11:50:10 am »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38971750

Repeated headers during a footballer's professional career may be linked to long-term brain damage, according to tentative evidence from UK scientists.
The research follows anecdotal reports that players who head balls may be more prone to developing dementia later in life.
The Football Association says it will look at this area more closely.
Experts said recreational players were unlikely to incur problems.
Dawn Astle, the daughter of former England and West Brom striker Jeff Astle, who died aged 59 suffering from early onset dementia, said it was "obvious that it [his dementia] was linked to his footballing career".
The inquest into his death in 2002 found that repeatedly heading heavy leather footballs had contributed to trauma to his brain.
Ms Astle told BBC Radio 5 Live: "At the coroner's inquest, football tried to sweep his death under a carpet. They didn't want to know, they didn't want to think that football could be a killer and sadly, it is. It can be."
She said her father was 55 and physically very fit when he went to the doctor, who diagnosed him with the early onset of dementia.
By the end he "didn't even know he'd ever been a footballer", she said, before adding: "Everything football ever gave him, football had taken away."

Researchers from University College London and Cardiff University examined the brains of five people who had been professional footballers and one who had been a committed amateur throughout his life.
They had played football for an average of 26 years and all six went on to develop dementia in their 60s.
While performing post mortem examinations, scientists found signs of brain injury - called chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) in four cases.
CTE has been linked to memory loss, depression and dementia and has been seen in other contact sports.
Prof Huw Morris, of University College London, told the BBC: "When we examined their brains at autopsy we saw the sorts of changes that are seen in ex-boxers, the changes that are often associated with repeated brain injury which are known as CTE.
"So really for the first time in a series of players we have shown that there is evidence that head injury has occurred earlier in their life which presumably has some impact on them developing dementia."
In the study, published in the journal Acta Neuropathologica, the report's authors make it clear they were not analysing the risks of heading by children.

But the science is far from clear-cut.
Each brain also showed signs of Alzheimer's disease and some had blood vessel changes that can also lead to dementia.
Researchers speculate that it was a combination of factors that contributed to dementia in these players.
But they acknowledge their research cannot definitively prove a link between football and dementia and are calling for larger studies to look at footballers' long-term brain health.

Dr David Reynolds, at the charity Alzheimer's Research UK, said: "The causes of dementia are complex and it is likely that the condition is caused by a combination of age, lifestyle and genetic factors.
"Further research is needed to shed light on how lifestyle factors such as playing sport may alter dementia risk, and how this sits in the context of the well-established benefits of being physically active."
He added that for people who are recreational footballers, football injuries are unlikely to cause long-term problems and he pointed to expert advice that the benefit of exercise is likely to outweigh the risks.
A number of previous cases involving boxers and American footballers have suggested that repetitive blows can cause long-lasting and progressive brain damage.
But until now there have only been a few case reports of individual footballers with CTE in the UK and the extent of the issue is still unknown.
The Football Association welcomed the study and said research was particularly needed to find out whether degenerative brain disease is more common in ex-footballers.
Dr Charlotte Cowie, of the FA, added: "The FA is determined to support this research and is also committed to ensuring that any research process is independent, robust and thorough, so that when the results emerge, everyone in the game can be confident in its findings."

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2017, 12:05:30 pm »
I wonder will all this research eventually lead to something like scrum caps for all players. I don't think it's necessary at all but it probably will.
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Offline ggcc14

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2017, 12:08:44 pm »
Stupid thing is this has been common knowledge in America for years as concussion is a very big deal over there.

But now a study has been conducted in England we are supposed to think this is new information.. I don't know what to make of it from a coaching perspective and as far as the future of football goes.
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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2017, 12:15:26 pm »
Stupid thing is this has been common knowledge in America for years as concussion is a very big deal over there.

But now a study has been conducted in England we are supposed to think this is new information.. I don't know what to make of it from a coaching perspective and as far as the future of football goes.

you are right, especially in youth level, i think heading is not allowed when playing football.

If they ban heading, i am wondering if it will be awkward for us watching, especially in the beginning.

Offline DdeGea

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2017, 12:41:01 pm »
Really difficult one this. Obviously some things are more important in life than football, and dementia down the line as a result of heading is definitely one of them. But without heading the game would be completely different. Like someone suggested earlier wearing some form of headgear could be trialled maybe? I guess its the nature of contact sports though, there's always going to be that risk present. Boxing and rugby for example will be far worse than football.

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2017, 12:42:51 pm »
you are right, especially in youth level, i think heading is not allowed when playing football.

If they ban heading, i am wondering if it will be awkward for us watching, especially in the beginning.
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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 12:46:47 pm »
The thing is that headgear (like in the NFL or Boxing) doesn't do much to stop the effects.

Your brain in still rattling around in your skull regardless of what's surrounding it, I'm sure the head gear that Cech uses for example are only effective at protecting the skull not the brain.

They should go and feast on another dead corpse this one is alive and kicking and it will bite you fucking head off.

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 01:35:19 pm »
Quote
may be linked to long-term brain damage, according to tentative evidence

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2017, 01:43:27 pm »
The effect is real, but there is a question as to how significant the weight of the ball is. Wet leather balls are a thing of the past now, but they could feel like heading a medicine ball. Modern lighterweight footballs will have a less pronounced effect. It is a concern, and the research should be followed up.

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2017, 01:43:41 pm »
you are right, especially in youth level, i think heading is not allowed when playing football.

If they ban heading, i am wondering if it will be awkward for us watching, especially in the beginning.

Allowed at the academies u-10/11 level still.  My lad loves heading the ball out of defence straight to a player.  It tends to be roundly applauded by all watching if someone isn't afraid to head the ball - some kids won't or will only as a last resort.

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2017, 02:05:20 pm »
If you've followed concussion news over the past few years this wouldn't surprise you... looks like any small head trauma is bad news down the road  :-[

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2017, 03:34:21 pm »
Do you all think somewhere down the line heading will be outlawed?

It's not just the heading, it's the reckless heading challenges that are going on causing some serious damage.

Believe the short term action will be too red card any reckless head challenge - including not being in control of the body when going for a header, leeping too far in a uncontrolled manner,  elbows, etc. More controversially might be to ban diving for a header.

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2017, 03:35:16 pm »
How do you deal with corners then? I mean does everyone wait patiently for the ball to land at someones feet before they can play it?

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2017, 03:37:38 pm »
I think the evidence probably holds true for when it was made, ie: decades ago


New footballs are much lighter and softer, not crazy hard leatherballs, I have headed an old footie when wet once and honestly it kills, anyone here will attest to that from school days with shite wet balls.

Modern footballers play with much different stuff nowadays

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2017, 03:55:41 pm »
The study proved that footballers get more dimentia than normal public.
I don't think it's the footballs, but more the aerial challenges and blows to the head that you see every game, even more so in the past.

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2017, 03:57:24 pm »
The study proved that footballers get more dimentia than normal public.
I don't think it's the footballs, but more the aerial challenges and blows to the head that you see every game, even more so in the past.
Yeah, I'd imagine one bad clash of heads at a corner does way more damage than a season's worth of heading the ball does. Way more severe.
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Offline DdeGea

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2017, 04:09:36 pm »
Yeah, I'd imagine one bad clash of heads at a corner does way more damage than a season's worth of heading the ball does. Way more severe.
But heading indirectly causes those clash of heads. If you take out heading, you take out the head collisions for the most part.

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2017, 04:47:32 pm »
Yeah, I'd imagine one bad clash of heads at a corner does way more damage than a season's worth of heading the ball does. Way more severe.

It's the repetition that does the damage though. One header might not do much. 10+ a game x50 games a season though?

FWIW I don't think the study is anywhere near conclusive and I also think the weight of the ball changing drastically over the last 40 years has been overlooked too.
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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2017, 06:03:32 pm »
It's the repetition that does the damage though. One header might not do much. 10+ a game x50 games a season though?

FWIW I don't think the study is anywhere near conclusive and I also think the weight of the ball changing drastically over the last 40 years has been overlooked too.

Agreed on the repetition being more damaging than one big hit - almost all of the boxing fatalities/serious injuries you see are from prolonged fights with lots of smaller punches landed, rather than the round 1 one-punch KO. It's seen as the main reason why MMA has seen very few fatalities compared to boxing.

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2017, 06:08:12 pm »
If my sons under 9 team head the ball more than once a match it's something of a triumph....


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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2017, 06:11:14 pm »
Heading in the US for players 11 and under has been banned.  Players 12 years of age can head the ball but can only practice heading a limited amount of time. 

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2024, 02:53:59 pm »
.
'FA ‘fully aware’ of brain injury risks in 1980s but failed to act, high court told':-

Former footballers and families suing FA, FAW, EFL and Ifab
Barristers claim the four governing bodies were ‘negligent’


www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/22/fa-fully-aware-of-brain-injury-risks-in-1980s-but-failed-to-act-high-court-told




^ Nobby Stiles was found to have had a progressive brain condition caused by repeated blows to the head. His family is among those taking legal action.


a snippet...


'The Football Association “was always fully aware” of the risk of concussion and brain injury to players as early as the 1980s but failed to take steps to improve safety, the high court has been told.

Lawyers representing several former footballers and their families have said in court documents that minutes from an FA committee meeting in 1983 “indicate” that it knew of the risk posed by head injuries “but failed to take action to reduce the risk of players to the lowest reasonable level”.

Ten former professional footballers – and the families of a further seven who have died – are suing the FA, the Football Association of Wales (FAW), the English Football League (EFL) and the sport’s law-making body, the International Football Association Board (Ifab).

They include the family of the former England midfielder and 1966 World Cup winner Nobby Stiles, who died in 2020 after living from dementia and was found to have chronic traumatic encephalopathy, a progressive brain condition caused by repeated blows to the head.

In the documents, seen by the PA news agency, barristers have claimed that the four governing bodies were “negligent and in breach of their duty of care” owed to the former players, who “suffered permanent long-term neurological injuries” as a result.'


« Last Edit: March 22, 2024, 02:58:17 pm by oojason »
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Offline darragh85

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2024, 05:48:00 pm »
So no tackling and no heading. Where's the off button

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2024, 06:09:15 pm »
I can understand it from like to 50-80's, it was like heading a sack of bricks, but nowadays?

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2024, 06:14:22 pm »
My head is still fucked after heading that mitre multiplex ball as a teenager. Weighed a tonne when pumped up to the last.  Could never understand how they had us playing with that at 14-16

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2024, 07:16:40 pm »
Can't they create lighter balls that still perform in the same way?

Offline John C

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2024, 11:11:37 pm »
There's thousand and thousands of lower league and amateur players who might also have suffered while the FA held this knowledge. Not just the top flight.

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2024, 09:37:55 am »
My great Grandfather was a professional footballer who had Alzheimer’s when he passed. It was fairly definitive this came from heading the ball. He’d been a centre half in the 50s and 60s when the heavy leather casing ball would have had some real weight.

Of course the balls aren’t the same now, nowhere near, but it still needs to be studied and taken seriously to think about how to mitigate long term health issues.
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Offline darragh85

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2024, 01:49:57 pm »
Great to see your sympathy for ex footballers suffering from Alzheimer's as a result of playing and entertaining the likes of you. Twat.

My post was insensitive.  Apologies

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2024, 07:49:22 pm »
My post was insensitive.  Apologies
Good man.

Often thought the closest we can get to understanding what those older players had to suffer was when the only thing available for a game on the green was someone's GAA ball. Head one of those things in the rain and you're transported right back to Dalymount in the 1940s. Horrific.

If it is true that the medical world was aware of the full extent of what were -- to the layman -- fairly obvious effects, there must be a very severe reckoning.

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2024, 08:00:14 pm »
Can't they create lighter balls that still perform in the same way?
That's pretty much what has happened over the past 30 (?) years - albeit not with the intention of reducing brain damage.  My son's youth team recently had some really lightweight balls that were designed for heading but still behaved very similarly to real footballs.  They wouldn't pass the standard for matches but certainly fine for training.

Beyond heading the ball though there's also the issue of other head impacts.  Players getting concussions are hardly ever caused by the ball but rather by a collision with another player.  I don't see how you can really stop those happening but football is better placed to find a path through it than other sports (rugby, NFL, boxing etc.).

I understand that the recorded rates of dementia are considerably higher in ex-footballers than in the general population but is there any scientific way of identifying for an ex-footballer if the cause was playing football or something else?

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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2024, 01:52:01 am »
My post was insensitive.  Apologies
Thanks man. I'll delete my post too.
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Re: Heading football causes brain damage
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2024, 01:34:56 pm »
The balls these days are like beach balls in comparison to what Jeff Astle and Nobby Stiles were heading particularly when wet
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