Topic: Best British Sportsperson Ever at their Sport

[mikey_LFC]

So, combining the top three people from each category we are left with six contenders. Who is the best British Sportsperson Ever? No impossible to say category this time, it’s decision time, so if you had to choose any of them who would you pick?

Links to the previous polls so people can see who was included:

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=353608.0

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=353604.80

Here are their highlights:

Andy Murray - Winner of 3 Grand Slams (Wimbledon 2013, 2016 and US Open 2012) and runner up on 8 occasions. 2 Olympic Gold Medals and 1 Silver Medal. Led Great Britain to the Davis Cup in 2015. He was ranked world No. 1 by the Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP) for 41 weeks, and finished as the year-end No. 1 in 2016. He ranked in the top 10 for all but one month from July 2008 through October 2017, and was no lower than world No. 4 in eight of the nine year-end rankings during that span. Murray has won 46 ATP singles titles, including 14 Masters 1000 events. Had it not been for his incredible competition against 3 all time greats of the game, then who knows how decorated he would have been. His main rivals at his peak are now considered the three best men to ever play tennis, which begs the question where does Murray rank in terms of tennis’s all time greats? In terms of grand slams, he ranks 18th in the Open Era and 42nd overall, but surely he’d have been far higher had he played in any other era.

Jessica Ennis-Hill - Olympic champion in 2012, runner up in 2016, a three-time world champion (2009, 2011, 2015) and World Indoor Champion. She was the British record holder for the heptathlon until 2019 beaten since by Katarina Johnson-Thompson, but this still stands as the 7th best score ever. Former British record holder in the 100 metres hurdles, the high jump and the indoor pentathlon. Her personal best of 12.54 seconds in the 100 metres hurdles is the world best time in the heptathlon and matches the winning time for the individual event at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. By clearing 1.95 metres in the high jump, she achieved a foot (30 cm) above her own height of 1.65 metres which only ten women have ever managed. She is truly an all time great in an all round discipline whilst also posting personal bests that would see her compete at an Olympic level in multiple events

Kelly Holmes - She specialised in the 800 metres and 1,500 metres events and won gold medals for both distances at the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens, the first Brit to win two athletics golds in the same Olympics since 1920 and only the 3rd woman to do so. Her win in the 800m was voted IAAF Female Performance of the Year. She is the only athlete ever to reach the 800 metres and 1,500 metres Olympic finals three times. She set British records in numerous events and still holds the records over the 600, and 1,000 metre distances. She held the British 800 metre record until 2021. Interestingly, at an earlier point in her life, she was also the British Army Judo Champion. After years of underachievement, Team GB had a golden moment that was seen by many as the moment that inspired the future success in the following Olympics guaranteeing Athletics millions in precious Lottery funding.

Laura Kenny - With six Olympic medals, having won both the team pursuit and the omnium at both the 2012 and 2016 Olympics and madison at the 2020 Olympics, along with a silver medal from the team pursuit at the 2020 Olympics, she is both the most successful female cyclist, and the most successful British female athlete, in Olympic history. Since first appearing at the European Track Championships in 2010, she has won seven World Championship, 14 European Championship and two Commonwealth Games titles, as part of a total of 34 medals. On the road, Kenny won the British National Road Race Championships in 2014. She has been part of teams that have broken the world record on no fewer than 11 occasions between 2012 and 2016. At only 30 years old, she could easily add to all these incredible numbers.

Lewis Hamilton - has won a joint-record seven World Drivers' Championship titles (tied with Michael Schumacher), and holds the records for the most wins (103), pole positions (103), and podium finishes (191), among many others. He is statistically considered as the most successful driver in Formula One history. He is the only Brit ever to win the prestigious Laureus World Sportsman of the Year. From the outset, he has been an outstanding talent, still holding the record for most points in a debut season, despite the points system change now awarding far more points, narrowly missing out on a first ever rookie championship. He has the highest win percentage for any with over 100 races to their name, winning a 33.3% of his 310 races, with Schumacher the next best at 29.5%. Simply one of the greatest racing drivers ever.

Ronnie O’Sullivan - the current world champion and world number one. He has won the World Championship seven times, a joint modern-era record (with Stephen Hendry). He has won a record seven Masters and seven UK Championship titles for a total of 21 Triple Crown titles, the most achieved by any player. He has won a record 39 ranking titles. He won his first UK Championship aged 17, making him the youngest player to win a ranking title. He became the oldest world champion in snooker history when he won in 2022, aged 46. O'Sullivan made his first competitive century break aged 10 and his first competitive maximum break aged 15. In 2019, he became the first and only player to achieve 1,000 century breaks in professional competition. He has made the highest number of officially recognised maximum breaks, with 15, and holds the Guinness World Record for the fastest competitive maximum break, compiled in a time of 5 minutes and 8 seconds at the 1997 World Championship.

Given all that, who do you think is the best ever at their sport?

[Brissyred]

Mike Hailwood.

[Redbonnie]

Has to be Daley Thompson …was he on the other list?

[MBL?]

That list is very underwhelming isn’t it? Severe lack of football and rugby players. Lennox Lewis over anyone on that list as well.

[RayPhilAlan]

W G Grace

[CheshireDave]

Phil Taylor

AP McCoy

[mikey_LFC]

Lennox Lewis, Daley Thompson, Phil Taylor and AP McCoy were on the other list and did not make it to this round. There were also players from football, rugby, cricket etc on there too.

[mikey_LFC]

For me, only 3 on the list have a shout at being the best ever in their sport and that’s Lewis Hamilton, Laura Kenny and Ronnie O’Sullivan. Before this started I think I leant towards Hamilton, but having read up on them all for the OP of this thread, the only one who seems to be head and shoulders above the rest in their sport is Ronnie. Whether the size and type of sport lets him down enough to not have him win is the debate but unlike the others in the poll, he is a genius without parallel within his sport and that is worth a lot.

[El Lobo]

Has no-one mentioned Calzaghe? If you're talking best British boxers he's surely right up there, if not the best

[Red-Soldier]

None of the above.

[Nobby Reserve]

None of the above.

[Barneylfc∗]

From the options available, Ronnie O'Sullivan for me.

[rob1966]

Mike Hailwood.

[Crosby Nick]

Feels like as a nation we tend to excel more in the sports that not many others play.

[rob1966]

Feels like as a nation we tend to excel more in the sports that not many others play.

Sad but true

[El Lobo]

Feels like as a nation we tend to excel more in the sports that not many others play.

Kings of the pub sports.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Only 18 countries are currently represented within the professional snooker circuit, so I will never accept a snooker player as the best sportsperson that there is.

In contrast, there are currently 37 countries represented in the ATP top 100 list alone. It's a truly global sport and therefore much more impressive to become the best in the world.

Surprised to read that KJT beat Ennis-Hill's PB. Can you be the best sportsperson when someone has objectively done better than you in the same era? Obviously not in terms of medals and longevity - but still.

[End Product]

Jonathan edwards was a beast who jumped past the measuring board he was so good then presented songs of praise then sacked it off, a clear winner.

[Crosby Nick]

Jonathan edwards was a beast who jumped past the measuring board he was so good then presented songs of praise then sacked it off, a clear winner.

The longest standing Athletics world record I think?

[Barneylfc∗]

Only 18 countries are currently represented within the professional snooker circuit, so I will never accept a snooker player as the best sportsperson that there is.

In contrast, there are currently 37 countries represented in the ATP top 100 list alone. It's a truly global sport and therefore much more impressive to become the best in the world.

Surprised to read that KJT beat Ennis-Hill's PB. Can you be the best sportsperson when someone has objectively done better than you? Obviously not in terms of medals and longevity - but still.

I've went for O'Sullivan out of the list provided as it's the only 'accessible' sport here.

There are plenty of snooker halls, although less than there were 20 years ago.
You can't get into F1 unless you are rich or have a rich backer. Athletics, tennis and certainly cycling aren't readily available either unless you're a bit of a toff.

[mikey_LFC]

I've went for O'Sullivan out of the list provided as it's the only 'accessible' sport here.

There are plenty of snooker halls, although less than there were 20 years ago.
You can't get into F1 unless you are rich or have a rich backer. Athletics, tennis and certainly cycling aren't readily available either unless you're a bit of a toff.

I don’t think anyone on the list is even close to being a toff.

[mikey_LFC]

Only 18 countries are currently represented within the professional snooker circuit, so I will never accept a snooker player as the best sportsperson that there is.

In contrast, there are currently 37 countries represented in the ATP top 100 list alone. It's a truly global sport and therefore much more impressive to become the best in the world.

Surprised to read that KJT beat Ennis-Hill's PB. Can you be the best sportsperson when someone has objectively done better than you in the same era? Obviously not in terms of medals and longevity - but still.

In terms of professionals involved in the sports, (i.e. the size of the competition), I think motor racing is by far the biggest discipline represented. But it depends how you cut it as there are more track and field athletes than racing drivers but not when you breakdown the disciplines and look at who is actually likely to compete with them. You could do the same for the different types of racing but the best of best drivers could easily pop up in F1, unless they are involved in something completely different such as rally racing.

[El Lobo]

I've went for O'Sullivan out of the list provided as it's the only 'accessible' sport here.

There are plenty of snooker halls, although less than there were 20 years ago.
You can't get into F1 unless you are rich or have a rich backer. Athletics, tennis and certainly cycling aren't readily available either unless you're a bit of a toff.

At the risk of being called a Hamilton fanboy....I think if you look into O'Sullivan and Hamiltons childhoods you might be surprised to see which one was more privileged. Hamilton was picked up by Mercedes/McLaren when he was like 13, and his dad used to work a fuck tonne before that to afford the karts etc. Ronnies dad, as much as he was a bit of a wrong'un, owned a load of sex shops so was pretty minted

[MH41]

There is no way to accurately state who is the greatest in any poll.
Just like any poll, when it comes to Sportsperson, it is too difficult to have meaningful measures, rules to judge on - different eras, competition (or lack of it), how the press has already influenced you, when the poll is carried out etc. It becomes nothing more than an opinion, along with a great debate, but it's impossible to find a winner fairly.

The slightly easier task might be to suggest your choice in each sport. Even then you will have questions about eras, competition etc.

With regards to some of the sportspeople mentioned, here's a few of my opinions, and that's all they are, because asides from Football, athletics, maybe golf.
 I am somewhat ignorant about a lot of sports. I love watching them all, but wouldn't be too knowledgeable about them.

Boxing - I have no idea why so many people nominate boxers. Do they (or their camp) more or less choose who they fight against? (Somewhat similar to Man City having a big purse, so will decide to play (insert any inferior team) for the Champions League?) I'm sure it hasn't always been as bad as that, but boxers have always avoided opponents.
Ali - no doubt a great boxer, but why should his influence outside the sport affect his standing when judging a sportsperson? It always does, so here is a prime example of how people have been influenced in voting.
So many weights, boards etc, so too difficult to compare.

Cricket - not enough nations play it. Fine if you want to vote on best cricketer, but a cricketer shouldn't be anywhere near winning a poll of greatest sportsperson.

Rowing - as above in cricket.

Athletics - so many different events. Many have mentioned multi eventers such as Jess Ennis. I love her, she is fantastic, but she has much less competitors in her event than any of the running events.

F1 - how much of it is down to the car, as opposed to the driver.

Football - really a question of how to compare era's. George Best? I wouldn't question his ability, but would have to question his longevity in the sport.

Only my opinions. Apologies if they sound abrupt, I'm trying to be concise in a debate you could argue about forever, and still have no winner! 

FWIW, my favourite sportspeople have been Dalglish, Barnes, Maradona, Cram, Sonia O'Sullivan, Michael Johnson, Ballesteros, Harrington, Scumacher (Michael, not the German GK! 😂) Sean Kelly, Barry McGuigan etc  (people who have influenced me in my lifetime)

Maybe we should get the Superstars back and sort this all out once and for all!

[Red-Soldier]

Apart from athletics, none of the other sports are inclusive at all.

[Red-Soldier]

I've went for O'Sullivan out of the list provided as it's the only 'accessible' sport here.

There are plenty of snooker halls, although less than there were 20 years ago.
You can't get into F1 unless you are rich or have a rich backer. Athletics, tennis and certainly cycling aren't readily available either unless you're a bit of a toff.

Not sure how many snooker halls there are in the developing world.

Athletics is the only widely accessible sport globally (roads, running tracks and off beat trails, are everywhere), on that list.  And then, when you get to elite level nowadays, you still need to payout for expensive shoes etc.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

I was a big fan of Chris Boardman when I was competing as a kid. Certainly one of the best cyclists Britain has ever produced, even though he was hampered by health issues.

[wah00ey]

Faldo

[gjr1]

Said in the other thread Seb Coe has to be in the conversation

[mikey_LFC]

Said in the other thread Seb Coe has to be in the conversation

Whilst he was regretfully missed off of the previous poll, as with other alternative suggestions, there wasn’t a mass of people calling for any one option, so I stood with the result of the poll. He’s a good call out though as is Jonathan Edwards. Colin Jackson too.

[Barneylfc∗]

I don’t think anyone on the list is even close to being a toff.

At the risk of being called a Hamilton fanboy....I think if you look into O'Sullivan and Hamiltons childhoods you might be surprised to see which one was more privileged. Hamilton was picked up by Mercedes/McLaren when he was like 13, and his dad used to work a fuck tonne before that to afford the karts etc. Ronnies dad, as much as he was a bit of a wrong'un, owned a load of sex shops so was pretty minted

Not sure how many snooker halls there are in the developing world.

Athletics is the only widely accessible sport globally (roads, running tracks and off beat trails, are everywhere), on that list.  And then, when you get to elite level nowadays, you still need to payout for expensive shoes etc.

I was being more specific to my region to be honest.
You're not likely to see wee Tyler from the council estate beating round a velodrome (Don't even have one in the whole of Ulster that's available all year round) on a £2000 custom made bike, but there's nothing to stop him walking into a snooker hall and picking up a cue for a couple of hours whenever he wants.

[kaesarsosei]

I like Andy Murray, and if he had been born 10 years earlier or later he would have won 10+ grand slams. He has landed slap bang in the middle of literally the 3 GOATs (alongside Rod Laver) of his sport and still competed. The only other person on this list in the conversation is Ronnie.

[mikey_LFC]

I like Andy Murray, and if he had been born 10 years earlier or later he would have won 10+ grand slams. He has landed slap bang in the middle of literally the 3 GOATs (alongside Rod Laver) of his sport and still competed. The only other person on this list in the conversation is Ronnie.

How can the others not be in the conversation when their relative achievements within their sport outweigh Andy Murray’s.

Genuine question for everyone, where does Andy Murray rank in terms of the best male tennis player’s ever? I find it hard to believe anyone would have him in the Top 10, something that is surely a given for the others on the list within their respective sports?

[Passmaster Molby]

Sir Ben Ainslie

[Redknight60]

There's still a lot of confusion by what is actually being rated here. I championed Andy Murray in the other thread because of how far ahead he is in his sport from other BRITONS. He's obv not the greatest tennis player ever, not even in the conversation whereas guys like O Sullivan and Hamilton are.

Waiting another century for a British tennis player like Andy Murray wouldn't surprise me whereas I suspect we will see other British snooker players and F1 drivers reach the top multiple times in that timeframe.

[mikey_LFC]

There's still a lot of confusion by what is actually being rated here. I championed Andy Murray in the other thread because of how far ahead he is in his sport from other BRITONS. He's obv not the greatest tennis player ever, not even in the conversation whereas guys like O Sullivan and Hamilton are.

Waiting another century for a British tennis player like Andy Murray wouldn't surprise me whereas I suspect we will see other British snooker players and F1 drivers reach the top multiple times in that timeframe.

It’s not just compared to other Britons. The reason you’d go for Andy Murray is because his achievements, despite being low compared to others in their relative fields was more difficult and therefore his actual achievement in winning any grand slams is higher than say Lewis Hamilton winning when it’s expected. The problem is with the Murray argument, if he was as good as others compared to their competition then he’d have been expected to win more, so I think some are down playing the achievements of people who have won more simply because they were expected to win more. A football analogy would be it’s more of an achievement for Leicester to win the league than Liverpool, but that does mean they were a better team than the Liverpool title winning side, or I guess more apt might be arguing for that Liverpool being better than some old United sides because although they didn’t win as much, they had harder competition with the current City side. It’s just a hard argument to make, though it doesn’t mean it’s not true.

[rob1966]

There's still a lot of confusion by what is actually being rated here. I championed Andy Murray in the other thread because of how far ahead he is in his sport from other BRITONS. He's obv not the greatest tennis player ever, not even in the conversation whereas guys like O Sullivan and Hamilton are.

Waiting another century for a British tennis player like Andy Murray wouldn't surprise me whereas I suspect we will see other British snooker players and F1 drivers reach the top multiple times in that timeframe.

I said Barry Sheene and Brissyred threw in Mike Hailwood.

Sheene is the last British winner of the Premier Class, ie 500cc/MotoGP, he won back to back titles in 1976/77 and finished 2nd in 1978.

Hailwood though was something else, he was World Champion across 3 classes, 250cc x 3, 350cc x 2 and the first rider to win the 500cc title 4 years on the trot. He raced in 3 or 4 classes each season, in 1966 and 1967 he won the 250cc and 350cc world titles and finished 2nd in the 500cc class. He also had wins at the IOM TT, beating the great Giaccommo Agostini.

He then went on to drive F1 cars, 50 races with 2 podiums and finished 3rd at Le Mans in a GT40.

A fortune teller told him he wouldn't reach 40 and would be killed by a truck. He died at 40 when a truck did an illegal turn and he hit it, killing his daugher instantly and he died later from his injuries.

[Circa1892]

Cricket - not enough nations play it. Fine if you want to vote on best cricketer, but a cricketer shouldn't be anywhere near winning a poll of greatest sportsperson.

Inclined to agree to a point. But I do think there always needs to be some consideration of which nations. The fact its the national sport of India/Pakistan/Bangladesh etc means when you put it in terms of population rather than just number of countries then it suddenly becomes bigger, certainly when compared to Rugby etc.

[kaesarsosei]

A fortune teller told him he wouldn't reach 40 and would be killed by a truck. He died at 40 when a truck did an illegal turn and he hit it, killing his daugher instantly and he died later from his injuries.

Was the fortune teller arrested for dangerous driving? 

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

How can the others not be in the conversation when their relative achievements within their sport outweigh Andy Murray’s.

Genuine question for everyone, where does Andy Murray rank in terms of the best male tennis player’s ever? I find it hard to believe anyone would have him in the Top 10, something that is surely a given for the others on the list within their respective sports?

If you believe that Nadal, Federer and Djokovic are numbers 1-3 in an all-time list, then in terms of ability Murray would easily make top 10. If however you think that the likes of Sampras, Becker, Bjorg and Agassi would have competed for slams even in this era then yeah, he's not that great.