Poll

Vote for the best team (best representation of the manager in terms of philosophy, style & tactics)

Crosby Nick (Ottmar Hitzfeld)
2 (20%)
NICHOLLS1986 (Jurgen Klopp)
1 (10%)
Sheer Magnetism (Cesar Luis Menotti)
2 (20%)
Lastrador (Rinus Michels)
4 (40%)
vivabobbygraham (Bill Shankly)
1 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: December 17, 2022, 05:37:27 pm

Author Topic: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL  (Read 916 times)

Offline NICHOLLS

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Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« on: December 15, 2022, 05:35:08 pm »
Please rank the teams in order of who you think are the best.

Remember, we are voting which teams are the best in terms of being the best constructed team in line with the chosen manager's philosophy, player styles and tactics. NOT 'the team with the greatest 11 players'. Well-chosen players and tactics that execute the manager's philosophy the best should be valued more than a team full of big names that don't.

For example:

1st: Manager A
2nd: Manager B
3rd: Manager C
4th: Manager D
5th: Manager E
FINAL

Crosby Nick (Ottmar Hitzfeld)


Manager profile, player styles and team tactics
I’m basically copying the 5-3-2 Hitzfeld used at Dortmund (think it was a bit more fluid at Bayern with arguably better attackers at his disposal).

Have to admit I didn’t know a couple of the Dortmund players, or couldn’t read much about them to took a creative licence or two with my right wing back in particular. Otherwise I tried to go fairly like for like in style. Cech for Klos in goal. No fuss but very solid. Beckenbauer for Sammer as a sweeper alongside two very good stoppers.

My wing backs are Dani Alves and Candela. Candela played that system at Roma. Alves is a bit of a liberty but as a strong running right back he’d be ideal for this formation.

Two midfielders sitting deeper, one an out and DM and one a deeper lying playmaker. In front of that I have a powerful runner and shooter and great passer - Gerrard for Moller.

Up front I went for Zamorano as my Riedle. Hard working, powerful, decent in the air. And Weah for Chapuisat.

If anyone could knock up formations I’d be eternally grateful etc etc.

Klos > Cech

Heinrich > Candela
Kohler > Gentile
Sammer > Beckenbauer
Kree > Godin
Reuter > Dani Alves

Lambert > Mascherano
Paulo Sousa > Xabi Alonso
Moller > Gerrard

Chapuisat > Weah
Riedle > Zamorano
[close]

NICHOLLS1986 (Jurgen Klopp)


Manager profile, player styles and team tactics
(Players of inspiration: Alisson, Weidenfeller)
Ederson (18-22) – a world-class example of the modern 'sweeper keeper': extraordinary playmaking and passing ability, great timing off the line, excellent one-on-one and able to make accurate long throws. Ederson is also commanding, very strong with a solid frame, while still possessing amazing reflexes, agility and shot-stopping abilities. All-time legends like Yashin, Zoff and Banks wouldn’t have fit either the player technical profile or the tactical style required for my keeper position. Ederson will be an important weapon in getting the ball to Stoichkov and Eto’o with pace and accuracy.

(Players of inspiration: Robertson, Piszczek, Schmelzer, Milner)
Javier Zanetti (98-02) – Zanetti represents endless energy and stamina down the flank (as both fullback and winger). A solid and tenacious defender, able to cover his centrebacks and midfielders. Consistency and workrate must be very high. A fullback possessing excellent passing and crossing skills is also required (overlapping Eto’o and crossing horizontally to Stoichkov). Zanetti is both a formidable man-marker at one end, and a creative/attacking force in the opponent's half. The Inter Milan legend is physically strong, quick and agile, also possessing the leadership intangibles to raise his team’s energy and morale.

(Players of inspiration: Matip, Subotić, van Dijk, Gomez)
Elías Figueroa (72-76) - the complete centreback. Figueroa is a talented ball playing centrehalf, able to build from the back, initiate attacks from deep with long vertical balls and make marauding runs. Dominant in the air and an expert man marker (world class positional sense and reading of the game). Regarded as the greatest South American defender of all time, the Chilean is strong and pacey, able to deal with a #9 target man in the box or quick forwards on the high line. A natural leader and organiser.

(Players of inspiration: van Dijk, Hummels)
Gaetano Scirea (78-82) – the graceful complete centreback partner. Not the typical Catenaccio tenacious stopper, but a ball-playing centerback whose game is based on clean interceptions, positioning and reading of the game. Scirea has a strong athletic build, comfortable and elegant on the ball. ‘El Capitano’ is a leader of men and highly respected my players, managers and critics.

(Players of inspiration: Trent Alexander-Arnold, Tsimikas, Robertson)
Andreas Brehme (86-90) - A special fullback needed here: elite passing and crossing skills are required (accuracy, swerve, power and technique). A modern fullback able to play the full flank (fullback/wingback/winger) or tuck in centrally. Brehme was also a solid defender, demonstrating an intelligent positional sense. The German’s vertical/horizontal passes will be used to spring quick attacks/switch play/stretch our opponent. Brehme was without doubt a clutch player (assists/goals in the biggest games). A multi-faceted team player. A set-piece specialist (corners and free kicks) is the cherry on top.

(Players of inspiration: Fabinho, Henderson, Bender, Kehl)
Frank Rijkaard (88-92) – the crucial defensive midfielder for our spine. Rijkaard can sit between my two centrebacks as a third centreback. The Dutch legend offers supreme protection, breaking down play, anchoring and covering. Rijkaard boasts the vision and passing technique to launch attacks from deep, while also possessing the box-to-box quality when needed.

(Players of inspiration: Henderson, Milner, Wijnaldum)
Bryan Robson (84-88) – ‘Captain Marvel’ is my box-to-box dynamo. Robson offers the much needed high defensive workrate and match engine. A dual goal scoring threat and destroyer: Robson will screen the back four and cover advancing defenders, distribute the ball with accuracy and zip and get into the opponent’s box to score. Robson also possesses great leadership intangibles.

(Players of inspiration: Wijnaldum, Gündoğan, Lallana, Keïta)
Mario Coluna (62-66) – ‘The Sacred Monster’ was known to be a creator, enforcer and all-round inspiration in midfield. The Portuguese box-to-box force of nature transformed from a forward into a midfielder now operating deeper: Coluna now had the whole pitch infront of him, where he could demonstrate his complete game: vision, passing range, slalom dribbles, stamina, long range shooting, intelligent movement, drives into the box, strong tackling and leadership. An important player to link up play between defence and our attack.

(Players of inspiration: Mané, Jota, Błaszczykowski)   
Samuel Eto’o (07-11) – Eto’o was the perfect lethal forward: insane natural pace, a prolific finisher and creator, tactical versatility to play centrally or on the wing and possessing impressive dribbling and shooting technique. Physically strong and tenacious, Eto’o had a high defensive workrate (even able to play as a defensive wingforward). Historically a big game player, Eto’o had a high football IQ, able to play in both possession, counter attack and pressing systems.

(Players of inspiration: Firmino, Götze, Lewandowski, Mané)
Florian Albert (63-67) – ‘The Emperor’ wasn't your typical centre forward. He would drop deep (sometimes even play as deep as central midfielder) playing as a withdrawn forward. Always moving for his teammates, possessing a high work rate and able to tactically press. Albert was an elegant footballer, possessing amazing dribbling skills, technique and ball control. Still a prolific goalscorer, for his club career he scored an astonishing 595 goals in 643 games, and for his country 32 goals in 75 games. Albert loved to combine with his midfielders and attackers, demonstrating his excellent vision, creativity and tactical intelligence. He will be able to thread accurate passes to Stoichkov and Eto'o. A deadly finisher, but also strong on the ball, able to slalom past defenders.

(Players of inspiration: Salah, Mané, Reus)
Hristo Stoichkov (90-94) – the ideal wingforward for my attack. The Bulgarian can press from the front, offering great workrate off the ball. ‘The Dagger’ possesses the deadly pace and power to be lethal on the counter, cutting in from the wing, getting in behind or driving forward centrally. The importance of being versatile across the front three forward positions and being both a goalscorer and creator maximises his influence.

[close]

Sheer Magnetism (Cesar Luis Menotti)


Manager profile, player styles and team tactics
"My concern is that we coaches don't arrogate to ourselves the right to remove from the spectacle the synonym of festival, in favour of a philosophical reading that cannot be sustained, which is to avoid taking risks. And in football there are risks because the only way you can avoid taking risks in any game is by not playing."

"There's a right-wing football and a left-wing football. Right-wing football wants to suggest that life is struggle. It demands sacrifices. We have to become of steel and win by any method... obey and function, that's what those with power want from the players. That's how they create retards, useful idiots that go with the system."



Unfortunate phrasing but it's what César Luis Menotti believed, he was one of football's true aesthetes. He prioritised skill and entertainment but his teams weren't all-out attack. They were filled with tactically intelligent players who knew where to be and when, influenced not only by Total Football but the 1970 Brazil team. But how did he line his teams up?

The key Menotti teams were the unfancied Huracan team he took to the club's second ever league title, the Argentine team he took to a World Cup and the Barca team he won three trophies with in four months. That team often used a more contemporary 4-4-2 but typically, Menotti's teams lined up in a lopsided 4-1-2-3 with a sweeper and a stopper in defence, a destroyer, a playmaker and a goalscorer in midfield and an attack made up of a conventional winger, a creative wide forward and a skillful number 9 who could also hold the ball up when necessary. You have players who can push up but who are smart enough to know when to drop off and fit enough to do it.

These are the two main templates: Huracan 1973 and Argentina 1978:




So, here's how they compare player by player. I'd say all the positions are stylistically similar profiles with big upgrades in many:

GK (Ibaldo Fillol >>> Joseph-Antoine Bell) Template: acrobatic, quick keeper a touch under six foot who comes off his line a lot. I posted the videos further up but Bell is the closest keeper in world football to Fillol, a keeper who's massively underrated because he's African, he didn't come to Europe until he was in his 30's and he came up alongside Thomas N'Kono, a very good conventional choice for Cameroon (think Clemence vs Shilton).

LB (Alberto Tarantini/Julio Alberto >>> David Alaba) Template: an attacking left back with the tactical nous to play centre back. Alaba doesn't quite have the same maverick streak as these two but he started off as a winger, is currently at centre back and has played mostly in midfield for the national team.

SW (Daniel Passarella/Jose Ramon Alexanko >>> Fernando Hierro) Template: A physically strong sweeper and onfield leader who scores goals. Hierro won everything with Real, had a great passing range and had a one-in-three record for Spain. They weren't all penalties either.

CB (Alfio Basile/Migueli (AKA Tarzan)>>> Big Virj) Template: The more conventional defender who acts as cover. Van Dijk is hugely athletic, never gets dribbled past and is basically the ideal choice to play alongside a sweeper who goes up. Have you seen him next to Matip?

RB (Jorge Olguín/Tente Sanchez >>> Berti Vogts) Template: A more defensive counterpoint converted from a central player (CB and MF respectively in this case). Vogts was primarily a right back but also a defensive one who played in the centre of defence for Borussia Mönchengladbach in some big games.

DM (Américo 'The Octopus' Gallego/Víctor Muñoz >>> N'Golo Kanté) Template: A diminutive, strong, tireless destroyer with telescopic legs who can break up attacks before they get to the defence. Kanté is the literal epitome of this player and probably the best ever example.

MF (Osvaldo Ardiles/Bernd Schuster >>> Luka Modric) Template: Elegant midfield playmaker capable of running the game and setting up goals for the players higher up the pitch. Modric won a Ballon d'Or in this exact position.

AM (Mario Kempes/Carlos Babington >>> Jari Litmanen) Template: A creative, gritty player who can dribble the ball and make runs from midfield to score. His injury record in his later years makes people forget that Litmanen was actually quite a physical player - a six-footer like Kempes - and although he had a superb scoring record, he tended to play behind the front three for Ajax. Perfect fit.

LW ('El Rapido' Oscar Ortiz/Omar Larrosa >>> Ryan Giggs) Template: A speedy winger who can carry the ball up the field quickly, beat a player and slide a cross in. Giggs at his peak was exactly this kind of player, he wouldn't have been able to score that goal against Arsenal if he wasn't. He's also still top of the all-time PL assist table, about 50% ahead of nearest competitor Cesc Fabregas.

CF (Leopoldo Luque/Roque Avallay >>> Pelé) Template: A skillful centre forward who can hold the ball up and drop off in addition to scoring goals. Menotti actually rated Pelé as the greatest ever, and the role Luque played in the Argentine team was very similar. Avallay played somewhat of a Firmino role in the Huracan team, allowing teammates to play around him like Pelé did in the 1970 side. I picked the more intelligent late career version rather than the goalscoring phenomenon - this centre forward also has to be a playmaker.

RW (Daniel Bertoni/René Houseman/Diego Maradona >>> Leo Messi) Template: The attacking centrepoint of the side, a creative dribbler in a free role who's job is to destroy the other team's defence and score goals. Look, Messi is the best ever in this role - even Maradona couldn't fill it in the same way - and he has the tactical intelligence to thrive there in front of Modric.
[close]

Lastrador (Rinus Michels)



vivabobbygraham (Bill Shankly)


Manager profile, player styles and team tactics
Clemence>Jennings You can't better Clemence in my view. Englands greatest, maybe Banks runs him close. So, Pat was similar for the Irish. Similar in stature, agility, shot saver, hairstyle, everything except the conk

Carlos Alberto> Chris Lawler. Marauding full backs with an eye for goal. Chrissie was so underrated. Carlos is an upgrade of course but I saw Lawler score a similar goal in the derby as the world cup wonder goal in 70 from Carlos. Lawler would have done that for Brasil.

Ron Yeats>Jack Charlton. Bill moved away from the big stopper after Larry Lloyd left but Rowdy was his pride and joy. 'Come and have a walk round him' said the great man when Ron was introduced to the press on signing from Scotland somewhere. Big Jack was similar if a bit more gangly. Hard as nails the pair of them.

Alessandro Nesta> The mighty Emlyn. Brothers from another mother.  Double European cup winners, tenacious, skilful, great footballers, brilliant defenders but brought the ball out of defence to start attacks

Gerry Byrne>Andy Robertson. Dogged, determined full backs asked or gave no quarter. Gerry Byrne played 87 minutes of the FA Cup final in 65 with a broken collarbone. Robbo would have done that...and a broken leg. No subs. Fellow Scot to the great man. I rest my case

Thiago Alcantara>Peter Cormack. 'Twinkle toes' Peter Cormack was the 'final piece in the jigsaw' when Shanks signed him in 72. 2 league titles, the fa cup and uefa followed. A playmaker, he made that early 70's side tick. Skinny, diminutive but loved a tackle, Shanks loved Peter, another fellow Scot. How he would have adored Thiago

Tommy Smith>Claude Makelele. Early to late 60's Tommy played in midfield, Shanks put him in when he was 18 and he never came out, paying in a variety of positions. He was a destroyer, fearsome, but his skills as a footballer were vastly underrated. Shanks said 'Tommy wasn't born, he was quarried.' Claude is my favourite 6. He would have marshalled a Shankly team from there. Bill liked the double  pivot. Used it a lot. Stevenson/Strong a prime example of his 60's side. Smith/Stevenson another pair. He would have his two wide midfielders as wingers. 442 became 424. He took that from Ajax. Paisley carried on this tradition. Thiago and Claude would have been perfect

Salah>Cally/Brian Hall. Some might think this is a stretch. But Mo's best years for us is wide right, exactly where Cally played. Cally/Hall was more industrious, would drop into midfield and play right mid but still wide. Mo' can do that in his sleep. Shanks demanded a lot from his wide players, they'd cheat and play both roles. Mo's football nous would have been perfect for Bill in a 424 with the added bonus of goals. How else can you compare the longest serving player in the clubs history with arguably, by the time he's finished, our greatest ever player.? I just did!

Cruyff>Thompson/Heighway Yes, wide left for Johan in this Shankly team in similar mode to Thommo and Stevie. Cruyff loved Shankly, his football philosophy, his personality, his Liverpool. He'd have loved to have played for Liverpool in front of the kop. He said so, it was on the wall of Melwood "There’s not one club in the world so united with the fans. I sat there watching the Liverpool fans and they sent shivers down my spine. A mass of 40,000 became one force behind their team"

Keegan/Toshack>Suarez/Lewandowski. Nuff said

I finish with these quotes that fit aptly with the Shankly philosophy and were at the forefront of my thinking when drafting this team...

“My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Had Napoleon had that idea he would have conquered the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in.”

“A football team is like a piano. You need eight men to carry it and three who can play the damn thing.”

“Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple.”

“For a player to be good enough to play for Liverpool, he must be prepared to run through a brick wall for me then come out fighting
the other side.”

“The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It’s the way I see football, the way I see life.”
[close]



Offline RobbieRedman

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2022, 07:35:30 pm »
Lastrador for me

Online Betty Blue

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2022, 04:23:58 pm »
This is hard
"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.

Offline Samie

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2022, 05:38:23 pm »
10 votes for a final, what a pisstake you all should ashamed  ::)

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2022, 05:50:39 pm »
Been travelling. Didn’t even vote for myself. :lmao

Glad it wasn’t decisive.


Offline Samie

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2022, 05:52:48 pm »
You were traveling for two days? The fuck you coming back from, the holy land?

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2022, 05:55:46 pm »
You were traveling for two days? The fuck you coming back from, the holy land?

Planes, trains and automobiles. Drove from London to Belfast for Christmas.

Offline Lastrador

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2022, 10:29:57 pm »
I’ll take it. Put it on the record Betts. :champ :champ :champ :champ

Thank you to everyone who made this dream possible (all three of you).

Well done everyone, and thanks Nicholls for running the draft.

Online Hazell

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2022, 08:48:52 am »
Well done Las, tough final that one.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2022, 10:01:38 am »
Hell, second isn't bad. That was a fun draft! Congrats Lats.

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2022, 10:08:42 am »
Hell, second isn't bad. That was a fun draft! Congrats Lats.

Third really pal, given I didn’t vote for myself!

Offline NICHOLLS

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2022, 09:15:01 am »
Congrats Lastrador, building your excellent Rinus Michels machine.

Offline RobbieRedman

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2022, 10:33:49 am »
well played everyone great draft, thanks Nicholls

Online Betty Blue

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2022, 11:39:02 am »
Congrats Lastrador, building your excellent Rinus Michels machine.

Thanks for running, mate. Really great draft and something a bit different to the norm which is always good :)

Congrats, Lastrador. Bremner excepted  :D  'twas a great replication of Rinus' side.
"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2022, 11:52:37 am »
Yes, thanks Nicholls. Enjoyed doing something’s but different even if I wasn’t often sure what I was doing (no real change I guess).

Offline Lastrador

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2022, 01:22:22 pm »
Thanks gents, it was a pleasure to do battle with all of you.

Offline Samie

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Re: Diamond Anniversary Draft - FINAL
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2022, 01:28:29 pm »
I along with the Welsh are not happy with this win but congrats.

Nice one Nicholls.   :wave

Lets' do Seria A V3 90's draft now.  :D