Topic: Do you support the strikes?

[ToneLa]

Just a reminder of who Ken Clarke is (seems it was forgotten during Brexit).

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ken-clarke-says-uk-recession-27293793.amp

One of my fav Tories

which means I'd still hurl him off a cliff, but there might be less jagged rocks below

[Kenny's Jacket]

One of my fav Tories

which means I'd still hurl him off a cliff, but there might be less jagged rocks below

Sayeeda Warsi is also not evil.

[Yorkykopite]

Some very good posts by Oldfordie in this thread.

[Skeeve]

Except Starmer is inferior to Jurgen in almost every way.

Replace the word Starmer with any name and that sentence is still true though, except that you'd drop the word almost for quite a few. 

[Fromola]

It's within the government interest now to get an agreement before the next round of strikes. They surely won't want another week of Lynch showing them up for what they are and eviscerating them in a way the Labour front bench haven't done for a long time.

Good to see someone given a platform to stand up for the working class and with authenticity, rather than some spiv like Frottage. He's got the MSM rattled as they and the government were banking on some Scargill figure who could be painted as the villain.

It also sadly hammers it home just what a wet lettuce nonentity Starmer is and his no-mark cabinet.

[FlashingBlade]

a quick glance of the Tory press front pages on line it appears that a lot of the union bashing rhetoric has been dropped ( or Ive missed it)...maybe Mr Fat Cat Union Barren Mr Lynch made too good a job of things in the media and they've decided not to give him more profile...which is in their right as a ' Free Press'...ha!

Though Teachers up next

[Fromola]

a quick glance of the Tory press front pages on line it appears that a lot of the union bashing rhetoric has been dropped ( or Ive missed it)...maybe Mr Fat Cat Union Barren Mr Lynch made too good a job of things in the media and they've decided not to give him more profile...which is in their right as a ' Free Press'...ha!

Though Teachers up next

Makes a change for them to stop digging for once. The Daily Mail in particular has well and truly lost the plot lately. Always been a joke but it's dropped all pretence of actually being a newspaper and become Johnson's press office. Desperately backing a corrupt loser.

[Jshooters]

Really good, non-confrontational interview style from Dan Walker here which results in a frank discussion rather than the media baiting we've seen so far

https://bit.ly/3n8F8Yv

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Well, it appears to be infectious, because Red_Mist used 'Flynn' too!

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=352694.msg18394087#msg18394087

At first, I assumed you had a brain-fart, but when RM used Flynn too, I began to wonder if Flynn was indeed someone else, so I had to ask.

I assumed they meant Kevin Flynn from Tron

[Keita Success]

Really good, non-confrontational interview style from Dan Walker here which results in a frank discussion rather than the media baiting we've seen so far

https://bit.ly/3n8F8Yv

Brilliant interview. Asks similar questions, but not in a cunty way.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Really good, non-confrontational interview style from Dan Walker here which results in a frank discussion rather than the media baiting we've seen so far

https://bit.ly/3n8F8Yv

Yep good to see

The other broadcasters and journalists should be hanging their heads in shame (And also sacked for being shite)

[Jiminy Cricket]

Some very good posts by Oldfordie in this thread.

I understand Oldfordie's (and, apparently, your) point - maybe Mick Lynch could have done better in some aspects of his responses. But, really, he seemed to gain the upper hand in all of the confrontations I've seen, with the vast majority of people taking his side (from what I've witnessed on social media at least). The Burley interview was not at all as she characterised it - she was the one who was flustered and Lynch exhibited some mild frustration, but that was that was the extent of it. Except for the video linked by Jshooters of Lynch being interviewed by Dan Walker, the questioning of him in the interviews I have watched have been ridiculous.

Here's a link to Dan Walker's thread about the interview:

https://twitter.com/mrdanwalker/status/1539707071997923331

I am sick to death of mediocre journalists looking for confrontation and reaction. It is utter shite and is a great disservice to their viewers.

[Yorkykopite]

I understand Oldfordie's (and, apparently, your) point - maybe Mick Lynch could have done better in some aspects of his responses. But, really, he seemed to gain the upper hand in all of the confrontations I've seen, with the vast majority of people taking his side (from what I've witnessed on social media at least). The Burley interview was not at all as she characterised it - she was the one who was flustered and Lynch exhibited some mild frustration, but that was that was the extent of it. Except for the video linked by Jshooters of Lynch being interviewed by Dan Walker, the questioning in the interviews I have watched have been ridiculous.

Here's a link to Dan Walker's thread about the interview:

https://twitter.com/mrdanwalker/status/1539707071997923331

I am sick to death of mediocre journalists looking for confrontation and reaction. It is utter shite and is a great disservice to their viewers.

Don't get me wrong. Mick Lynch has been great - a bit of a game changer. He's better informed, funnier, calmer, more direct and more honest than practically everyone he comes up against. He's also helped, of course, by having a very strong case.

I just thought that during the Kay Burley interview he could have done what Oldfordie suggested. In addition he might have reminded her that picketing is still legal in Britain and that it is one of the basic freedoms that underpins democracy - a civil right that is immediately outlawed in dictatorships (whether of right or left). Given that, and given the clearly peaceful nature of the pickets in the RMT dispute, what on earth is the problem?

[Sangria]

Don't get me wrong. Mick Lynch has been great - a bit of a game changer. He's better informed, funnier, calmer, more direct and more honest than practically everyone he comes up against. He's also helped, of course, by having a very strong case.

I just thought that during the Kay Burley interview he could have done what Oldfordie suggested. In addition he might have reminded her that picketing is still legal in Britain and that it is one of the basic freedoms that underpins democracy - a civil right that is immediately outlawed in dictatorships (whether of right or left). Given that, and given the clearly peaceful nature of the pickets in the RMT dispute, what on earth is the problem?

The main problem seems to be that the strike isn't as viscerally unpopular with the public as the Tories would like. They'd counted on the strike being unpopular, and their media had a raft of campaigns ready to link them with Labour. As it turned out, Labour kept itself clear, the public thought the strikers at least had a point, and the partisan journalism was exposed. This is something for the Tories to own.

[rob1966]

Sayeeda Warsi is also not evil.

I've seen her on the Last Leg and she's brilliant - talks a lot of sense and is very scathing of Bojo and the other c*nts, heard her call them all basically thick.

[thaddeus]

Don't get me wrong. Mick Lynch has been great - a bit of a game changer. He's better informed, funnier, calmer, more direct and more honest than practically everyone he comes up against. He's also helped, of course, by having a very strong case.

I just thought that during the Kay Burley interview he could have done what Oldfordie suggested. In addition he might have reminded her that picketing is still legal in Britain and that it is one of the basic freedoms that underpins democracy - a civil right that is immediately outlawed in dictatorships (whether of right or left). Given that, and given the clearly peaceful nature of the pickets in the RMT dispute, what on earth is the problem?

I expect if he had the interview again he'd do some or maybe all of those things.  It was still an impressive performance though in the face of a haranguing interviewer.  I'm less confident Kay Burley would approach the interview any differently as the Paxman approach is something she applies to every interview (which, to be fair, can be mildly amusing when the interviewee is one of the stooges put out by Tory HQ to defend the latest Bozo scandal).

Lynch has been really good in every interview I've seen in getting across the context of the strike and why it matters to the vast majority of the UK workforce.  I reckon even ardent anti-trade unionists would be watching those interviews and secretly wishing he was on their side when it came to their next round of pay/T&C negotiations.

The press seem to be focussing on RMT and teachers but criminal barristers voting to strike is more telling as they're not exactly the first group that comes to mind when you think of trade unionists and Labour supporters.  I've been waiting for years for my trade union to get organised in the face of the huge levels of outsourcing of jobs to cheaper labour markets and the corresponding wage suppression - maybe this will be the moment...

[killer-heels]

a quick glance of the Tory press front pages on line it appears that a lot of the union bashing rhetoric has been dropped ( or Ive missed it)...maybe Mr Fat Cat Union Barren Mr Lynch made too good a job of things in the media and they've decided not to give him more profile...which is in their right as a ' Free Press'...ha!

Though Teachers up next

Think thats a lot to do with the polling apparently being on the strikers and workers side.

[Nobby Reserve]

The recent comments in this thread have cheered me, after putting myself through looking at some Twitter threads full of anti-left/anti-union arsewipes.

Julia Heartless-Sewer has been ranting about teachers threatening to go on strike. Cue loads of comments like:

'Teachers know how much the pay is before they take that career move. If you don't like it get a different career'

'Its the last refuge for people who cant do anything else'

'They get enough holiday'

'Teachers still happy to take the gifts at the end of the year. But don't want to teach'

'Bone idle and overpaid'

'Not bad for a part time job'

'Never seen a skint teach'

It's so sad.

The working classes spitefully turning on each other instead of casting their eyes at the parasites hoarding fortunes that will keep ther children's children's children's children's children in oppulent luxury.

"I've had to put up with having my final salary pension robbed off me; with working the longest hours in Europe, having some of the fewest holidays and some of the weakest employee protections; with my pay not keeping up with inflation for a dozen years; with my T&Cs getting picked off one by one... so everyone else should have to, same as me. And they have no right - do you hear me? NO RIGHT!! - to try to gather together to try to protect their hard-won terms and get a fair level of pay!!! Oh, and those multi-millionnaires making fortunes off the back of everyone else working for them... they deserve their money. To say anything else is just the politics of envy."

[Keita Success]

Just been looking through the Labour website, and I know this isn't the Labour thread, and this is one of the things on the site:

"Help us create a new Britain, based on security, prosperity and respect."

Just empty, meaningless language. Just don't think there's a party that represents me and my views as a socialist. Feeling very disillusioned with it all. I fucking loved Corbyn whilst acknowledging that he has his flaws and wasn't for everyone... but I don't know what the fuck Starmer stands for.

[killer-heels]

The recent comments in this thread have cheered me, after putting myself through looking at some Twitter threads full of anti-left/anti-union arsewipes.

I don't know why you read twitter nor why you get affected about what c*nts on that place say or write.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Some of the comments online against the workers is frankly bonkers. Pure hate crime stuff. Then again the UK is a country that voted for Brexit because of the supposed dirty filthy immigrants so i can't say i'm surprised at the level of intelligence of these people.

Thank god for unions because without them im convinced there is a large amount of people in the UK who would like to see others suffer.

[rob1966]

Not sure who it was on the 11 o'clock news, some Tory I think, made some comment about it not being 1973 and while the rail workers are "holding the country to ransom" it's wrong that strikers cannot just be replaced by agency workers.  Utter twat.

How about telling the public that agency workers cost twice the amount in wages as the people they are replacing?

[Jshooters]

Another great clip from Mick Lynch, this time clashing with clueless Tory MP Jenrick

https://bit.ly/39PhehB

[Nobby Reserve]

Just been looking through the Labour website, and I know this isn't the Labour thread, and this is one of the things on the site:

"Help us create a new Britain, based on security, prosperity and respect."

Just empty, meaningless language. Just don't think there's a party that represents me and my views as a socialist. Feeling very disillusioned with it all. I fucking loved Corbyn whilst acknowledging that he has his flaws and wasn't for everyone... but I don't know what the fuck Starmer stands for.

Aaaaaand retire 50 yards....   


With the benefit of hindsight - and speaking as someone who was, initially, massively supportive of and excited by Corbyn as leader - him becoming leader of the Labour Party at that time was one of the worst things that could have happened for us on the left.

He was totally unsuitable as a leader. Too slow-witted, too dogmatic, too sulky, too divisive. Yes, the right-wing of the LP from day one set out to undermine him (like briefing against him to hard-right scum working for the Daily Heil/Torygraph/etc) but he didn't help himself. Instead of building bridges with the Blairite-right and bringing them along, he took a position of emnity.

And his positioning on Brexit was idiotic.

It wasted an opportunity (a groundswll of support for leftist policy) that hadn't come about at all before, and probably won't again for a generation or more.

A quality leader from the left being elected at that time would have made a massive difference. It's quite depressing.

[Yorkykopite]

Another great clip from Mick Lynch, this time clashing with clueless Tory MP Jenrick

https://bit.ly/39PhehB

I love the way he has to explain what RPI means.

[Nobby Reserve]

Another great clip from Mick Lynch, this time clashing with clueless Tory MP Jenrick

https://bit.ly/39PhehB

And, further to my post earlier, the overwhelming position of those commenting is pro-Lynch/anti-Tory

 

[Nobby Reserve]

I love the way he has to explain what RPI means.

He probably saw the flicker of confusion in the corrupt scumbag Jenryck's eyes, and felt the need to clarify

[rob1966]

I love the way he has to explain what RPI means.

It's quite scary that an MP doesn't know what it means. These are the people supposedly running the country and they're thick.

[thaddeus]

I love the way he has to explain what RPI means.

The rotating cast of Tory MPs sent out with incredibly shallow knowledge of the subject should be embarrassing for our government.  Lynch lives and breathes this, whenever the latest rent-a-gob MP tries to throw out a pre-rehearsed soundbite he's tearing them to pieces.

I expect Tory HQ will keep trying different angles with the hope that eventually something sticks.  The usual tired tropes from Shapps didn't, Gullis hopelessly flailed the accusation of the RMT sabotaging Veterans' Day, Jenrick tried and failed to link these strikes with the 20% drop in rail users etc.

[thaddeus]

And, further to my post earlier, the overwhelming position of those commenting is pro-Lynch/anti-Tory

 

I'd like to take that as a representative sample but Twitter is terrible as an echo chamber.  If Hartley-Brewer had posted the same clip and put her spin on it then there'd be a right wing pile on in the comments.

[killer-heels]

Another great clip from Mick Lynch, this time clashing with clueless Tory MP Jenrick

https://bit.ly/39PhehB

Someone called Jenrick a sofa salesman on this site and its a apt description. Anyone who gets a photo op to show he has 'housed' a Ukrainian refugee deserves a kicking.

[oldfordie]

Some very good posts by Oldfordie in this thread.

Thanks Yorky

[quote
[/quote]

I understand Oldfordie's (and, apparently, your) point - maybe Mick Lynch could have done better in some aspects of his responses. But, really, he seemed to gain the upper hand in all of the confrontations I've seen, with the vast majority of people taking his side (from what I've witnessed on social media at least). The Burley interview was not at all as she characterised it - she was the one who was flustered and Lynch exhibited some mild frustration, but that was that was the extent of it. Except for the video linked by Jshooters of Lynch being interviewed by Dan Walker, the questioning of him in the interviews I have watched have been ridiculous.

Here's a link to Dan Walker's thread about the interview:

https://twitter.com/mrdanwalker/status/1539707071997923331

I am sick to death of mediocre journalists looking for confrontation and reaction. It is utter shite and is a great disservice to their viewers.

I don't think some posters understand where I stand Jiminy,   I commented on the Lynch video posted, I wouldn't judge Lynch on just 1 video, he can't be Perry Mason in every interview. Ive also watched some of his other interviews so I know his style. it's effective as he refuses to defend himself from character assassination as he knows it gives credence to the interviews line of attack. he goes on the attack rather than defence, it's a good quality to have nowadays as the personal attacks are getting nasty.  I still think he was wrong to use the same tactics on Burely.

[Nobby Reserve]

Thanks Yorky
 I don't think some posters understand where I stand Jiminy,   I commented on the Lynch video posted, I wouldn't judge Lynch on just 1 video, he can't be Perry Mason in every interview. Ive also watched some of his other interviews so I know his style. it's effective as he refuses to defend himself from character assassination as he knows it gives credence to the interviews line of attack. he goes on the attack rather than defence, it's a good quality to have nowadays as the personal attacks are getting nasty.  I still think he was wrong to use the same tactics on Burely.

Burley was asking moronic questions with the seeming intention of getting a rise out of him or putting him on the defensive. He spotted that straight off and gave it short shrift.

[Mister Flip Flop]

It's quite scary that an MP doesn't know what it means. These are the people supposedly running the country and they're thick.

They are running it, into the ground.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Aaaaaand retire 50 yards....   


With the benefit of hindsight - and speaking as someone who was, initially, massively supportive of and excited by Corbyn as leader - him becoming leader of the Labour Party at that time was one of the worst things that could have happened for us on the left.

He was totally unsuitable as a leader. Too slow-witted, too dogmatic, too sulky, too divisive. Yes, the right-wing of the LP from day one set out to undermine him (like briefing against him to hard-right scum working for the Daily Heil/Torygraph/etc) but he didn't help himself. Instead of building bridges with the Blairite-right and bringing them along, he took a position of emnity.

And his positioning on Brexit was idiotic.

It wasted an opportunity (a groundswll of support for leftist policy) that hadn't come about at all before, and probably won't again for a generation or more.

A quality leader from the left being elected at that time would have made a massive difference. It's quite depressing.

Can you imagine how different it would have been if it was John Smith instead of Corbyn!?

[Nobby Reserve]

Can you imagine how different it would have been if it was John Smith instead of Corbyn!?

Very! Although Smith wasn't really a leftist.

[oldfordie]

Burley was asking moronic questions with the seeming intention of getting a rise out of him or putting him on the defensive. He spotted that straight off and gave it short shrift.

What moronic questions were you thinking of?
I assume you mean when she asked what will the pickets do when the agency workers try to cross the picket lines. no idea how anyone can think that was a unfair question. did that not cross Lynches or anyone's mind. if it didn't then Unions are really f..   it had crossed Lynch mind already so he should have just answered the question.
 Lynch accused Burely of being ignorant on the purpose of picket lines, so she put him straight, she remembered the 1980s trouble with the Miners strike. why? because the government also ferried in workers to walk past the pickets to break the strike. she wasn't asking a question, that was her reply to question by Lynch  attacking her.

[HarryLabrador]

As much as I have been so impressed with Mick Lynch, I just wonder why he still believes in Brexit.

He would really help the Labour party if he could bark out "This government misled us all into Brexit which has now been proven to be and will continue to be a total disaster!" As he currently has the eyes and ears of the public and Keir Starmer too cautious not to upset the current Brexit believers, Mick Lynch would be incredibly influential.

I really don't know why he still believes in Brexit!!

[AndyMuller]

I think oldfordie has a thing for Kay Burley.

[Yorkykopite]

What moronic questions were you thinking of?
I assume you mean when she asked what will the pickets do when the agency workers try to cross the picket lines. no idea how anyone can think that was a unfair question. did that not cross Lynches or anyone's mind. if it didn't then Unions are really f..   it had crossed Lynch mind already so he should have just answered the question.
 Lynch accused Burely of being ignorant on the purpose of picket lines, so she put him straight, she remembered the 1980s trouble with the Miners strike. why? because the government also ferried in workers to walk past the pickets to break the strike. she wasn't asking a question, that was her reply to question by Lynch a attacking her.

She looked very flustered Fordie and didn't come over at all well. But I agree with you to a point. Lynch had a wonderful opportunity to explain the practice of picketing and remind people that the principle of peaceful picketing is central to British liberties. Most working-class people understand that. Burley didn't seem to. It would have been useful to have a reminder and expose her ignorance.