Topic: Kicking Off in Iran....Again

[Xabi Gerrard]

Biggest protests in Iran since the 2009 "Green Movement". 9 dead last night, 22 overall (at the time of writing).

Genuine dissatisfaction with economic woes? Or Saudi, America and Israel meddling in this modern day cold war that's taken over the Middle East?

[B0151?]

Biggest protests in Iran since the 2009 "Green Movement". 9 dead last night, 22 overall (at the time of writing).

Genuine dissatisfaction with economic woes? Or Saudi, America and Israel meddling in this modern day cold war that's taken over the Middle East?

I would say, why the 'or'?

Did I read that there are thoughts the protests were actually initiated by conservative elements looking to undermine Rouhrani?

[Xabi Gerrard]

I would say, why the 'or'?

Agree, very good point.

Did I read that there are thoughts the protests were actually initiated by conservative elements looking to undermine Rouhrani?

I heard that too. It's so hard to tell what's really driving this. Bit like everything going on in the world at the moment I suppose.

[RedBootsTommySmith]

My take on it is that there are legitimate grievances within Iran due to Rouhani's austerity policies, but that the West/ Israel/ Saudi's are not slow to encourage and exploit such discontent, being highly miffed at the outcome in Syria. Propaganda is duly taken up a notch or two. It sings from the same songsheet as other ME 'colour revolutions'. Not so sure it will work in Iran's case, but will cause enough agitation to keep Iran pre-occupied.

[TepidT2O]

Interesting to see the we’re not ‘arab’ chants...

Some sort of Persian nationalism here..?

[Zeb]

Were Iranian flags (the old Shah ones were out) and demonstrators in Albert Square, Manchester this afternoon. No idea what was being chanted (in Farsi perhaps?).

Good luck to lots of brave people in getting changes for the better for themselves over there regardless.

[TepidT2O]

Were Iranian flags (the old Shah ones were out) and demonstrators in Albert Square, Manchester this afternoon. No idea what was being chanted (in Farsi perhaps?).

Good luck to lots of brave people in getting changes for the better for themselves over there regardless.

I’m not  sure a return to the days of the shah is desirable..  but certainly a right to a freer life

[Xabi Gerrard]

I’m not  sure a return to the days of the shah is desirable..  but certainly a right to a freer life

Absolutely. The Shah was a brutal dictator and the poor people of Iran suffered as much under him (in different ways) as they do under this brutal theocracy.

Some people benefited under the Shah as some 'elites' always do under royalty. They're very vocal from their LA or Kensington mansions about the 'glory days' and wanting Iran to go back to the way it was. General rule of thumb - don't listen to them, they're either very dangerous or very deluded.

[Zeb]

I’m not  sure a return to the days of the shah is desirable..  but certainly a right to a freer life

Aye, although it may just have been a statement by émigrés on rolling back 1979 I suppose. But not a lot I know about such things, just struck me as curious. If not, perhaps, particularly surprising.

[Libertine]

Very brave people to protest against one of the vilest regimes on the planet, knowing what the response will be.

Imagine what a positive force a democratic, secular Iran could be to the region. A pipe dream though unfortunately.

[Yorkykopite]

As usual a dictatorship faced by popular dissent and rebellion blames ‘outsiders’ and ‘external enemies’.

As usual there are people in the West who agree.

We see this a lot unfortunately. If the dictatorship in question has a record of screaming at the USA and Israel then it is given a sort of free pass to suppress its own people.

Good luck to the Iranians in their fight against the regime. I’m sorry we in the West can’t offer you a more legitimate or inspiring figure than Trump to support you.

[classycarra]

Interesting to see the we’re not ‘arab’ chants...

Some sort of Persian nationalism here..?

This isn't a new thought. Correcting any misconception about this has long been important to Iranians

[kopite321]

Iranians are not Arabs... when I first came to work in the Middle East I was reminded of that forcefully but politely by my fellow Iranian team members...  Persians, as stated above.

Highly educated people and very very good Engineers.   

[Xabi Gerrard]

Iranians are not Arabs... when I first came to work in the Middle East I was reminded of that forcefully but politely by my fellow Iranian team members...  Persians, as stated above.

Highly educated people and very very good Engineers.   

Some Iranians are Arabs! 2% to be precise.

Persians only make up 65% of Iranians.

[Yorkykopite]

Some Iranians are Arabs! 2% to be precise.

And completely crushed and dispossessed by Khomeini.

[Xabi Gerrard]

And completely crushed and dispossessed by Khomeini.

The Iranian Arabs that sided with Saddam in the Iran Iraq war? Yep, they got crushed just like Saddam.

[classycarra]

The Iranian Arabs that sided with Saddam in the Iran Iraq war? Yep, they got crushed just like Saddam.

Saddam got crushed?

[Xabi Gerrard]

Saddam got crushed?

I may be slightly biased when it comes to describing the Iran Iraq war

But yes, the Iraqi aggressors failed miserably in their attempts to annex parts of Iran, so I make that a resounding victory to the boys in Red, White and Green.

[classycarra]

I may be slightly biased when it comes to describing the Iran Iraq war

But yes, the Iraqi aggressors failed miserably in their attempts to annex parts of Iran, so I make that a resounding victory to the boys in Red, White and Green.

Indeed you are! I am too, but would describe it differently!

It went on eight years, Saddam killed at least half a million Iranian civilians and troops (including many young men that the Iranian theocrats gladly 'martyred'). Yes they managed to defend their land and prevent Saddam achieving his objectives, but it was almost a pyrrhic victory. I would call the first Gulf War a crushing of Saddam

[Xabi Gerrard]

Indeed you are! I am too, but would describe it differently!

It went on eight years, Saddam killed at least half a million Iranian civilians and troops (including many young men that the Iranian theocrats gladly 'martyred'). Yes they managed to defend their land and prevent Saddam achieving his objectives, but it was almost a pyrrhic victory. I would call the first Gulf War a crushing of Saddam.

Do you have a connection to the region? I didn't know that! If you don't mind me asking, how?

(Absolutely no hard feelings if you're Iraqi btw!  )

[Yorkykopite]

The Iranian Arabs that sided with Saddam in the Iran Iraq war? Yep, they got crushed just like Saddam.

No, I was thinking of the people of the oil rich province of Khuzestan who were fierce in their resistance to Saddam's invasion but who nevertheless were forced out of their homes and off their land by the mullahs and who suffered a brutal crackdown over the next decade and a half. 

[classycarra]

Do you have a connection to the region? I didn't know that! If you don't mind me asking, how?

(Absolutely no hard feelings if you're Iraqi btw!  )

Not directly. Family lived in Tehran for some of the 80s.

Desperate to visit with Iranian family friends, if we can ever coordinate (and the timing is alright).

ps sorry if that post came across as provocative, just a semantics thing and I can understand why you'd say that about that bastard

[Xabi Gerrard]

Not directly. Family lived in Tehran for some of the 80s.

Desperate to visit with Iranian family friends, if we can ever coordinate (and the timing is alright).

ps sorry if that post came across as provocative, just a semantics thing and I can understand why you'd say that about that bastard

No need to apologise mate, it's quite right that semantics get corrected in a decent discussion.

Hope you do get to visit there some day!

[kopite321]

Some Iranians are Arabs! 2% to be precise.

Persians only make up 65% of Iranians.

Arrr okay... never knew that, all the Iranians I have worked with and currently work with refer to themselves as Persian... interesting, thanks for the feedback.   

[TravisBickle]

I imagine the protests will be short-lived and unsuccessful. Even with the backing of the US, they remain leaderless and largely unorganised with the entire weight of the Iranian state coming down on them. The brutality of the Iranian state is once again being laid bare for the world to see.

 Images of women throwing off their Niqabs are inspirational. To toss aside such symbols of oppression takes bravery I very much doubt I'd have myself.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

As usual a dictatorship faced by popular dissent and rebellion blames ‘outsiders’ and ‘external enemies’.

As usual there are people in the West who agree.

We see this a lot unfortunately. If the dictatorship in question has a record of screaming at the USA and Israel then it is given a sort of free pass to suppress its own people.

Good luck to the Iranians in their fight against the regime. I’m sorry we in the West can’t offer you a more legitimate or inspiring figure than Trump to support you.

That first bit is so predictable you don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I remember seeing the headline that Iran had commented on the riots and thinking these phrases would be there. Open the page and there you go.

[TravisBickle]

That first bit is so predictable you don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I remember seeing the headline that Iran had commented on the riots and thinking these phrases would be there. Open the page and there you go.

They're blaming Saudi Arabia. For those on the side of the regime, it's a pretty convenient defence given the Saudi's recent history in the region.

[Yorkykopite]

They're blaming Saudi Arabia. For those on the side of the regime, it's a pretty convenient defence given the Saudi's recent history in the region.

Can you be more specific?

[TravisBickle]

Can you be more specific?

 Regarding what? The Saudis have attempted to undermine the Iranians at every turn for a very long time, whilst (not unfairly) accusing Iran of spreading turmoil and discord themselves. That the Iranian regime's response to these protests was "it's all the Saudis" is the least bit surprising.

 Fair, no? Both regimes are anti-democratic, have utter contempt for basic human rights and deserve to be seen as totally monstrous by all decent people.

[jason67]

Regarding what? The Saudis have attempted to undermine the Iranians at every turn for a very long time, whilst (not unfairly) accusing Iran of spreading turmoil and discord themselves. That the Iranian regime's response to these protests was "it's all the Saudis" is the least bit surprising.

Fair, no? Both regimes are anti-democratic, have utter contempt for basic human rights and deserve to be seen as totally monstrous by all decent people.

Yet one is vilified by the west and the other is lauded, I wonder why that can be?

[J_Kopite]

Yet one is vilified by the west and the other is lauded

I'm struggling with this claim - what do you mean?

[So… Howard Philips]

Yet one is vilified by the west and the other is lauded, I wonder why that can be?

Saudi oil is better/cheaper?

[stara]

Yet one is vilified by the west and the other is lauded, I wonder why that can be?

If you have two hours to spare ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRbq63r7rys

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Surprise surprise, Corbyn remains silent on the matter.

[classycarra]

Surprise surprise, Corbyn remains silent on the matter.

If he's afraid to share his beliefs (and he is), perhaps he could just hold a forum and allow people with beliefs he sympathises with to do his dirty work for him.

Might be tough to organise an event at short notice, maybe he could just host a phone-in?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x35920t

[B0151?]

Yet one is vilified by the west and the other is lauded, I wonder why that can be?

When has Saudi Arabia been lauded and who by

[classycarra]

When has Saudi Arabia been lauded and who by

Thought it was funny/ironic that in a post about the way countries are perceived, he managed to badly generalise about 50 countries!

[Xabi Gerrard]

When has Saudi Arabia been lauded and who by

I'd imagine he means by western governments. You know, the whole state visits, presidents dancing with them, Prime Ministers going over to secure trade deals with them, thing. 

[jason67]

When has Saudi Arabia been lauded and who by

Not much bad feeling from world leaders here, in fact all I can see is a whole lot of love....They were climbing all over each other in the praise they were giving....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/11364829/King-Abdullah-of-Saudi-Arabia-dies-world-reaction.html

Dave took it to a new level....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/24/cameron-trip-cost-saudi-arabia-king-death

Would leaders of the west react in the same way to the death of an Iranian leader? When as far as I can see the two regimes are just as brutal as each other?

[Libertine]

Emily Thornberry has claimed Labour is unable to back demonstrators protesting against the Iranian government because it is unclear who has ‘the white hats’.

Jeremy Corbyn has been under increasing pressure to speak out over the unrest, which was sparked by economic hardships facing citizens and left more than 20 people dead, with 450 arrested in Tehran.

Downing Street warned Iranian leaders that “Britain was watching” and Thornberry issued a statement earlier this week calling for the authorities to show restraint.

But she told Nick Robinson’s Political Thinking podcast that Labour was unable to speak out in support of the protests because it was unclear who was in the right.

Asked if she had ever been to an event celebrating the Iranian revolution which led to the establishment of the current regime - following reports Corbyn attended one in 2014 - the shadow foreign secretary said: “Our approach now is one of extreme caution when it comes to Iran, and a recognition that the society in Iran is a immensely complex one, and seemingly contradictory.

“For example, with these current riots, sometimes they are...calling to reinstate the monarchy, sometimes they’re calling out against the Khomeni, sometimes they’re calling for Khomeni, sometimes they’re calling for the price of eggs.

“It’s very difficult, in those circumstances to actually come to a conclusion as to what political forces are behind the current disputes on the streets of Iran, so we take a cautious approach.”

The Islington MP said westerners could not “simply impose our views” on other countries.

“We don’t want to leap to judgement and say, well we don’t like the regime in Iran, these people are against it, they must be the guys with white hats, because it doesn’t work like that,” she added.

“We’ve seen that in Syria, we’ve seen it in Libya, we see it time and time again in Egypt...we cannot simply impose our views on people who are fighting against, you know, Mubarak, who we don’t like.”

Foreign secretary Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson has urged Iranian leaders to “debate the legitimate and important issues” raised by protesters.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/emily-thornberry-says-labour-cannot-back-iran-protesters-because-its-unclear-who-has-white-hats_uk_5a4fb78ce4b089e14dba9911?en


Wow.