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Some quality/important posts you may have missed
Nick110581:
--- Quote from: Veinticinco de Mayo on January 21, 2009, 10:34:33 am ---Nice idea Roy. Be good to keep this going.
--- End quote ---
But people won't read them as too long and it does not call for Rafa's head in the first line.
I will state again:
We have not played as badly as people make out.
We are joint top, a game to look forward too against Madrid and still in the FA Cup.
One draw against our neighbours and the world is caving in.
We are famous for backing our team and patience but this is a mountain over a molehill.
This could still be a massive season and I hope are players believe this rather than the defeatist shit written on here.
rowan_d:
We need Degs' post from one of the first-page thread
edit: Here we are
--- Quote from: Degs on January 21, 2009, 12:35:05 am ---Our problems go deeper than a switch round of players but Insua is the kind of player, like Agger, who can help us when we're not winning and are seemingly happy to sit back on the draw.
This has been brewing in me for a while now and rather than start a new thread I'll post it here, since we're talking about missing links (not phil neville). I've made sure to take the time to watch how we play, stretching to the arse end of last season.
You can't put our problems down to one position or one player you have to look at the team as an entity.
Yes we do have a problem, now we'll get the "We're in 2nd, we're challenging for the title" brigade in their legions saying we don't have a problem, but anybody who watches us on a regular basis can see we're struggling, and we have done for a long time (not just this season) in a certain type of match.
It'd be counter productive and not in the Liverpool way at all not to look for ways our team could improve and could be playing better, if you don't then the title passes you by while other teams improve and address their problems. Seemingly a load of our fans have been blinded by the light when looking up from the top of the mountain, unaware we're perilously close to the cliff ledge.
Anyway cracking on (I hate long posts and hardly ever read them) the lad has raised a good point, and it's why are we better with the likes of Insua in the team, and I'll add to this (as will the stats, only one 0-0 between both players) Agger.
The answer is freedom.
I'm not on about total football here, where everybody has every position but a move away from the mechanical and drilled team we've seen under Rafa. The higher we climb the more rigid we become. I firmly believe this is a direct cause of the system Rafa employs.
Now you'll get both groups wading in both wanting to crucify or coronate Rafa, when the real truth lies somewhere in the middle. He's a great manager but he's not perfect, he's no Barack Obama, and results over the last 2 seasons, and even from his time in Spain have shown he has a weakness.
The weakness is well known. Breaking down teams, especially teams with massive numbers behind the ball. I think there is a solution though.
Our problem comes from players being tethered to a spot on the pitch and given a radius of around 6 foot to do their work. Those who do express creative freedom are either one of the 2 per match allowed to (Torres, Gerrard) or will find their arse with splinters the next (Agger).
Shankly said it best:
"Football is a simple game complicated by idiots"
That man knew his stuff and although you could never call Rafa and idiot, far from it, he does tend to overcomplicate the matter.
We were revolutionised under a simply philosophy, "Pass and Move".
Pass and move died years ago, from the anti-football of Souness, to the dribble whenever you can Spice Boys, to the counter attacking of Houllier, and now to the military regiment that is Rafa's XI.
I'm not saying we destroy what Rafa has created but the more Rafa is here the more constricted our players become. If Rafa is still here in 5 years time I wouldn't be surprised to see eleven robots on the pitch.
Some people argue it won't work in modern football and to that I say bollocks.
As much as we hate them the Mancs were so successful last year because of their freedom in front of the middle 2.
The quartet of Giggs, Rooney, Tevez, and Ronaldo were all allowed to drift in and out of each others positions, never becoming stuck against one defender and constantly probing the opposition's back line.
Their problem this year has come from having a player that can only play in one position, Berbatov is too slow to not play anywhere other than in the middle of the park up the top.
It badly set back their team and gave defences a much easier time, they knew what was coming and where it was coming from, there was no interchange and no freedom and they suffered from alot of the problems we do now.
Again this season the team leading the way is Barcelona.
They have a selection of Busquets/Toure and even at times Keita defending anything coming through the middle while in front of them Messi, Henry, and Eto'o are allowed to roam free while Xavi pulls the strings and keeps it all together (Iniesta can also fill in this role).
It's meant they're the quickest to ever reach 50 points in Spain (alright they have class players) but they've done it scoring 85 goals in all competitions this season and only conceding 13 in the league.
Watch how many people end up in the box off any attack, they are safe in the knowledge that should they lose the ball it will be recovered.
Edit: And before you watch it try to count along with how many players are in the box supporting attacks, and ask when the ball is played out from the back could Xabi, Agger, Insua do this? Course they could.
1st half highlights
http://www.youtube.com/v/ThXFFl6MC_4&hl=en&fs=1
2nd half highlights
http://www.youtube.com/v/FERR9PmnRKs&hl=en&fs=1
I'm not saying we need to be Barcelona but we have the players that would allow the team the creative freedom we so desperately need.
Agger brings out it exceptionally well from the back linking the defence to the midfield, Alonso is great in the tackle but can spray the ball, doing a Xavi style job orchestrating what is in front of him, we have Mascherano who has had fuck all to do this season because of our sit back attitude, and we have Torres, Gerrard, and Keane who can all score goals.
It was worst exemplified at Stoke. We're 0-0 and playing passes to the back, long balls up front, and our front men aren't moving laterally at all because they're told they must be tracking back and helping the fella behind them.
We don't just have zonal marking on corners we have it in open play, you can tell they each have their own segment to mark and they're scared to abandon it.
No freedom at all.
What we need is an attitude change.
Our team go out with the primary goal of not losing, that much is clear, that's how they're set out, that's how they play, if a win comes it's in spite of our style. A goal from Torres, a goal from Stevie.
I'll ask you this, on Sunday count how many players are in the box when our attack finishes, I can tell you now it's 2 at most.
It also seems pretty obvious Mascherano will play, I'll ask you to do this, keep an eye on him and what he has to do. His best asset is his tenacity, to chase players all over the pitch and reclaim the ball. If we again play with 2 holding players we'll see Mascherano once more looking around at other people doing the work he's there to do rather than doing what they should be doing (Kuyt).
Bring back pass and move, give the lads in the final third some freedom, and go out to win the match.
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KOTP:
some good posts but surely the thread title should be changed to good posts that tow the line in making sure nothing bad is said about the team or club as if it did theni wouldnt put them here
Nick110581:
--- Quote from: KOTP on January 21, 2009, 10:48:48 am ---some good posts but surely the thread title should be changed to good posts that tow the line in making sure nothing bad is said about the team or club as if it did theni wouldnt put them here
--- End quote ---
But you are the one that started the thread calling for Rafa's head if I am not mistaken.
Still canot quite believe it.
Hank Scorpio:
That is a quality post from Degs there.
Benitez = modern day Lobanovsky?
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