Poll

How do we think the UK Will do - Assuming Brexit happens (Hard or Soft..)

Things will be brilliant from the word go and will get better every week!
Things will start off a bit dodgy, but over time things gradually improve and get better
Things will start off dodgy and remain that way for the forseeable future
Things will start off dodgy and then decline slightly with things getting a bit worse
Complete clusterfuck from start to finish

Author Topic: Brexit - doesn't really seem to be a very good idea does it? (*)  (Read 870177 times)

Offline Trada

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6640 on: October 20, 2017, 01:48:10 pm »
Macron ‘those who persuaded the British to vote Brexit never explained to them what the costs would be’

Also said May is bluffing about a no deal.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6641 on: October 20, 2017, 01:53:50 pm »
The good citizens of Barnsley disappointed that 3m people haven't been deported already.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/921330517064273921

Like the person insisting "it's my personal opinion" - like you haven't been brainwashed by the tabloids for years.....

"I thought it would move quicker now we've left..."

I know the received wisdom is you shouldn't call these people thick but fuck me...
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6642 on: October 20, 2017, 01:59:47 pm »
"I thought it would move quicker now we've left..."

I know the received wisdom is you shouldn't call these people thick but fuck me...

It's now "politically incorrect" to call the "politically incorrect" thick.

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6643 on: October 20, 2017, 02:00:15 pm »
Macron ‘those who persuaded the British to vote Brexit never explained to them what the costs would be’

Also said May is bluffing about a no deal.
  They're still not telling the truth as well, ive seen Redwood and Grayling both lie through their back teeth over the last week, they argue we already trade under WTO rules around the world so there's no problems and nothing to fear. fact is we don't trade with all the major countrys around the world under WTO rules, we have agreements made through the EU, they will go after we leave the EU and we will then trade under WTO rules. they will say anything just to get a hard Brexit.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 02:28:07 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
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Offline puroresu_kid

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6644 on: October 20, 2017, 02:10:24 pm »
Macron ‘those who persuaded the British to vote Brexit never explained to them what the costs would be’

Also said May is bluffing about a no deal.

Never a truer word spoken.  Although I have to blame the idiots who believed such rubbish coming from the brexit campaign.

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6645 on: October 20, 2017, 02:48:27 pm »
"I thought it would move quicker now we've left..."

I know the received wisdom is you shouldn't call these people thick but fuck me...
Thick as 2 short planks is far more appropriate.
It's shocking though, 16 months have passed since the referendum and am sure shes made points like this a few times and nobody's corrected her.
99% of them are all in prison but they're all taking our jobs. :duh
Seems you can say any old shite about Brexit and the Brexters applaud. only have to watch QT for the proof.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 02:56:47 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Trada

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6646 on: October 20, 2017, 03:09:43 pm »
Macron "At no time has May talked about a no deal here....Maybe its fake news"
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6647 on: October 20, 2017, 03:32:07 pm »
Regretful Brexiteer Tells James: “My French Wife Still Hasn’t Forgiven Me”

Quote
“I’m embarrassed to say I’m actually a Leave voter, I was doing it on a very logical level and forgot the person I live with,” this remorseful caller who’s married to a French woman told James O’Brien.

Dave got in touch as Theresa May vowed to make it as easy as possible for EU citizens to remain in the UK after Brexit.

In a Facebook post, the Prime Minister insisted the application process for settled status would be "streamlined" and the cost "as low as possible".

But, that was unlikely to settle Dave’s predicament as he told James how his wife of 15 years was still struggling to come to terms with his vote to leave the bloc.

“She wasn’t very impressed,” the LBC caller said. “There’s a lot of trust that was lost between my partner and myself.

“She said she’d find it difficult to forgive me for doing it, even though I explained to her ‘I wasn’t even thinking about you’.”

He added: “I feel terrible.”

How unreasonable.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/regretful-brexiteer-tells-james-my-french-wife-sti/

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6648 on: October 20, 2017, 03:55:20 pm »
What a fucking idiot...

Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6649 on: October 20, 2017, 03:57:06 pm »
What a fucking idiot...

Did he forget his wife was French?

I mean, did they not even discuss the referendum at home, at least enough to remind him he has a French wife?
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6650 on: October 20, 2017, 03:58:59 pm »
Wonder on what 'very logical level' he voted leave? Still can't see anything logical about ot whatsoever.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6651 on: October 20, 2017, 04:01:45 pm »
What a clown :butt At least he had the balls to hold his hands up and admit his stupidity though I suppose, not that it helps matters.

Offline Libertine

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6652 on: October 20, 2017, 04:30:56 pm »
Quote
even though I explained to her ‘I wasn’t even thinking about you’

Love how he uses that as mitigation.

You didn't even cross my mind love, I was too concerned with regulations from Brussels and restoring sovereignty.

Offline stara

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6653 on: October 20, 2017, 04:32:43 pm »
From horse's mouth: European Council (Art. 50) meeting (20 October 2017) - Conclusions

http://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/XT-20014-2017-INIT/en/pdf

Absolutely nothing has changed.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6654 on: October 20, 2017, 04:32:52 pm »
Love how he uses that as mitigation.

You didn't even cross my mind love, I was too concerned with regulations from Brussels and restoring sovereignty.

"Keep those nasty foreigners out! Present company excluded hey love."

Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6655 on: October 20, 2017, 05:04:08 pm »
And unemployment hasn't been as low for years. In fact (there I go again), we're nearing effectively full employment, with many sectors struggling to fill positions.
Yeah but you can prove anything with facts stats. 
If you only work a few hours a week, your're neither unemployed or fully employed...And you'll still be skint. 

 

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6656 on: October 20, 2017, 05:46:53 pm »
From horse's mouth: European Council (Art. 50) meeting (20 October 2017) - Conclusions

http://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/XT-20014-2017-INIT/en/pdf

Absolutely nothing has changed.

It took only 90 seconds to reach agreement.

https://twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/921310499979059200
https://twitter.com/adamfleming/status/921310061867266049


Offline Currywurst

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6657 on: October 20, 2017, 06:04:26 pm »
"Keep those nasty foreigners out! Present company excluded hey love."

How often have I and my German wife heard this! "No, we don't mean you, it's the others claiming benefits who we want out. You're alright."

Just like how lots of NSDAP supporters in Germany in the 30s quite liked their Jewish doctor.
Füreinander, nicht jeder für sich.

Offline west_london_red

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6658 on: October 20, 2017, 06:09:42 pm »
President Macron throwing a spanner in the Brexit works with the speech hes doing right now.

He’ll fall into line when Merkel tells him what’s what.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6659 on: October 20, 2017, 06:25:11 pm »
Christ almighty,even Brexit loons like Frottage & Rees Mogg don't think people who are already here should be sent back home.

No, they just don’t say they want the immigrants here sent back. I don’t for a second believe that if they had free reign that they wouldn’t send everyone back to ‘where they came from’ be that the EU or elsewhere.
Thinking is overrated.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6660 on: October 20, 2017, 06:39:49 pm »
It's now "politically incorrect" to call the "politically incorrect" thick.

Can't say anything these days. It's political correctness gone mad.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline Trada

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6661 on: October 20, 2017, 06:44:09 pm »
I find it hard to understand why the Tory press office allow pictures like this to be taken.

« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 06:45:52 pm by Trada »
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline Red Raw

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6662 on: October 20, 2017, 07:26:03 pm »
Another interesting piece from David Allen Green's blog on the difficulties around the proposals for a transition period.

The likelihood of a no-deal Brexit
https://www.ft.com/content/d321e29f-b78e-34ce-b912-4a89142f3a6a

. . . Taken with the sorry fact that Britain has done nothing to prepare for a no-deal Brexit, the problem is stark. There are no new customs or border arrangements, no new agencies, no rights of residence for EU citizens, nothing. The UK could not handle a no-deal scenario even if it wanted to.

Offline Currywurst

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6663 on: October 20, 2017, 08:09:35 pm »
I find it hard to understand why the Tory press office allow pictures like this to be taken.



A picture says more than a thousand words!
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6664 on: October 21, 2017, 02:55:42 am »

Offline McrRed

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6665 on: October 21, 2017, 06:52:21 am »
Not in the least bit surprised

https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/jamesball/a-suspected-network-of-13000-twitter-bots-pumped-out-pro
This is the secret war being waged on democracy (and one of the reasons Nigel Frottage looks so smug).

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6666 on: October 21, 2017, 01:39:18 pm »
Part of me thinks WWIII has already started and it's the first cyber world war.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6667 on: October 21, 2017, 03:39:10 pm »
Excellent article, long but well worth the read.

With hardcore Brexiteers urging ‘no deal’, Labour’s duty is clear

Some of you will be old enough to remember when the choice was leave or remain. How quaint it seems now. Because once the country voted in June 2016, we faced a new choice. For the true believers, simply leaving the European Union was not good enough: it had to be a hard, rather than a soft, Brexit. Now even a hard departure is not sufficient for the most devout Brexiteers. Demonstrating the purity of their faith, they yearn for a no-deal Brexit.
Over the many decades that the European question has loomed over Conservative, and therefore British, politics, the debate’s centre of gravity has shifted ever rightward. There was a time when mere opposition to British adoption of the euro earned you a Eurosceptic merit badge. Now you have to go much further. Simply leaving the EU is for wimps. To prove your anti-European hardness, you must storm out, slam the door – and throw a brick through the Brussels window.

Many of this week’s demands for a no-deal Brexit have come masked in rueful pragmatism, the ultra-Brexiteers feigning a heavy heart as they bow to the hard facts of life and prepare for that unwanted eventuality. But it’s all bogus.

Any visitor to the Tory conference in Manchester this month could see that, on the contrary, no deal brings instant arousal to the EU-loathing faithful. It carries that frisson of outlaw defiance, of burn-the-house-down iconoclasm, that has always been a crucial component of the Eurosceptic’s self-image.

No one arrives at no deal through a cool cost-benefit analysis. What takes them there is ideological zeal. Witness the five-word reply John Redwood sent to a protesting remainer who had set out the case for staying: “I just want to leave.”

If this were about the national interest, no one would countenance no deal. Amber Rudd is right that it is “unthinkable”. The independent assessments are quite clear that, if Britain were truly to walk out with no accord at all, planes would be grounded, and customs paperwork would increase fivefold – instantly leading to endless queues and gridlocked roads at the ports, and fresh produce rotting on the Dover dockside. Prices would rocket, supply chains would collapse, and everyone would be worse off. It’s worth studying the detail: it’s all bad.

Yet for the hardcore Brexiteer, none of this can compete with the lure of turning our back on the continent. A revealing, if bizarre, insight into the mindset came – again – from Redwood, when he described how he had spent the summer avoiding European goods, patrolling the supermarket aisles as if he were chemically allergic to anything touched by our nearest neighbours. “English, Australian and New Zealand wines are great,” he wrote, “so no need to buy French or Spanish.”

As it happens, the no deal that turns Britain into a no-fly zone of rotting fruit is almost certainly a mirage. In reality, if negotiations with Brussels fail to make a breakthrough by 29 March 2019, there will be a series of temporary mini-deals with Europe – on aviation, customs or the rights of EU citizens – just to keep planes in the sky and families from being deported. But they won’t be good deals for Britain. One Whitehall mandarin told me how he’d heard a Brexiteer minister complaining about the EU talks, saying: “You never beat Brussels in a negotiation.” (The mandarin had resisted the temptation to say: “Precisely. Which is why the EU is such a successful trading bloc that most nations would clamour to join rather than leave.”)
Still, the shift in focus to no deal is performing several useful functions. For one thing, it’s highlighting how chaotically divided this dysfunctional shower of a government really is, contradicting itself by the hour. While Theresa May was on her feet at the Brussels summit on Thursday night, trying to win the goodwill of her fellow European leaders, the Times was preparing its Friday front page. The headline: “Davis draws up plan for no deal on Brexit talks.”
What’s more, the no-deal discussion is doing what the referendum campaign never managed: exposing the true consequences of this national act of self-harm. President Macron nailed it when he said today that “those who persuaded the British to vote Brexit never explained to them what the costs would be”. Nor, in truth, did their opponents. The remain campaign failed to find a positive message, but it also failed to give voters a peek over the cliff edge. Project Fear was not scary enough.

This week the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development made a contribution, setting out the damage Brexit has already done to Britain’s growth, share values, currency and inflation. But the prospect of no deal draws that case in even sharper lines.

We may well avoid that outcome. The signals from Brussels suggest that in December the EU will allow the talks to move to the next phase, so the two sides can, at last, discuss not just their divorce but their future relationship. Forget any delusions about wrapping up an EU-UK free-trade agreement by October 2018, in time for a UK exit six months later. That’s not going to happen. The best we can aim for is a diplomatic “heads of agreement” text, a broad outline of principles combined with an agreed transition period.
If that sounds relatively smooth, think again. The current phase will be “a picnic in the park compared to the bloody battlefield of what’s ahead”, says Charles Grant, of the Centre for European Reform. Not least because May and her cabinet have never agreed on what the future UK-EU relationship should look like. The premature triggering of article 50 meant Britain entered negotiations not knowing what it wanted: never a smart move.
In all this, there is a curious quiet – and it comes from the quarter where you’d expect the loudest protest. Jeremy Corbyn had an excellent prime minister’s questions this week, asking pointed questions on the economy, universal credit and public sector pay. But even after the OECD report and evidence of yawning splits in cabinet, he did not ask about Brexit. One Labour bigwig, loyal to the leader, finds it tactically odd not to hit the Tories where they are so vulnerable. “You punch the bruise,” he told me. “And the bruise is Brexit.”

But this goes beyond mere tactics. Britain is heading towards a national disaster, a decision that will weaken this country for generations to come. Facing the government is an opposition surging with confidence, led by a man who has inspired a mass movement of many hundreds of thousands. But on this, the most pressing question of the age, it doesn’t know what to say.
Sure, Labour rightly faults the Tories at every turn. Yet when it comes to setting out its own vision for life after Brexit and after the transition period, Labour’s view is wreathed in fog. It has grown attached to the mixed message that, it hopes, will keep both pro- and anti-Brexit voters on side. But Brexit is too serious for equivocation. The government is driving the country off a cliff, debating only how fast it should go. Faced with that peril, the duty of the opposition is clear: it must oppose.

• Jonathan Freedland is a Guardian columnist
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/20/hardcore-brexiteers-no-deal-labour-theresa-may?CMP=share_btn_tw
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline stara

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6668 on: October 21, 2017, 03:48:41 pm »
one of the reasons Nigel Frottage looks so smug

And I hazard to guess, that this might be one of the reasons as well.

Five months before referendum the powers that be were presented this little gem:

Quote
On 28 January 2016 the Commission presented its proposal for an Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive as part of the Anti-Tax Avoidance Package. On 20 June 2016 the Council adopted the Directive (EU) 2016/1164 laying down rules against tax avoidance practices that directly affect the functioning of the internal market. Member States should apply these measures as from 1 January 2019.

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/anti-tax-avoidance-package/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en

They claim they need to be free to do something that they can't do now, but they never say what it is  ;)
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6669 on: October 21, 2017, 03:55:10 pm »
I find it hard to understand why the Tory press office allow pictures like this to be taken.


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Offline Bunter

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6670 on: October 21, 2017, 04:22:57 pm »
https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/921330517064273921

When people told me it was only a minority of Leave voters that were pig ignorant thick c*nts.

Not a fucking clue what they voted. All they know is there’s too many and they want ‘em out! Whoever they are.

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6671 on: October 21, 2017, 04:46:54 pm »
https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/921330517064273921

When people told me it was only a minority of Leave voters that were pig ignorant thick c*nts.

Not a fucking clue what they voted. All they know is there’s too many and they want ‘em out! Whoever they are.
Am sure they would disagree, they know exactly why they voted to leave the EU, send all the immigrants back to where they came from. especially the Muslim Countrys wherever they are ?
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6672 on: October 21, 2017, 08:49:19 pm »
Caroline Flint continues her reinvention as one of Labour's biggest Eurosceptics.

Quote
But the Labour MP told Andrew Neil: “I don’t think the vision, which was more recently laid out by Juncker in a speech saying, you know, ‘we are going to have this federal structure’, ‘we are going to have armies’.

“I don’t think that can be the future at all.”

Quote
Ms Flint explained the current EU vision is causing a rise in far-right political parties which will help to demolish the bloc.

She said: “And I think its interesting that whilst we see leaders like Merkel and Macron and others at the summits, behind in these countries, particularly in Germany and elsewhere, proportional representation has lead to the rise of far-right parties who they then have to have deals with.

“And those far-right parties are concerned about the EU, about Brussels, about immigration.

Appearing on BBC This Week, Ms Flint said she is is not sure whether the EU will survive.

She said: “I don’t see it surviving in the way that some in Brussels think it should, and expand in the way they think it should in the future at all.”

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/868856/European-Union-countries-France-Brexit-news-Theresa-May-Macron-Merkel-Brussels-UK

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6673 on: October 21, 2017, 08:50:40 pm »
Channel 4 news again, this time a former Polish foreign minister taking 5 minutes to explain the birds and the bees for a British audience. Thought it was very insightful and worth taking in the perspective of someone looking in to the British bubble.

https://www.channel4.com/news/radek-sikorski-eu-would-probably-prefer-corbyn-as-pm
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6674 on: October 21, 2017, 08:59:35 pm »

Offline west_london_red

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6675 on: October 21, 2017, 09:23:56 pm »
Caroline Flint continues her reinvention as one of Labour's biggest Eurosceptics.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/868856/European-Union-countries-France-Brexit-news-Theresa-May-Macron-Merkel-Brussels-UK

She’s cack handed in the way she puts it across but I don’t think she’s totally off the mark either. The more the EU goes down the integration and federal route, the greater the suppression of the nation state and the further you pull the elastic away from that the more violently it pulls back the other way, if not overshooting where it originally was. Brexit was the first manifestation of this.
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Online oldfordie

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6676 on: October 21, 2017, 09:24:47 pm »
Channel 4 news again, this time a former Polish foreign minister taking 5 minutes to explain the birds and the bees for a British audience. Thought it was very insightful and worth taking in the perspective of someone looking in to the British bubble.

https://www.channel4.com/news/radek-sikorski-eu-would-probably-prefer-corbyn-as-pm
In years to come people cheering this Brexit on will look back in disgust at the way parliament handled Brexit.

"In my view the Northern Ireland border problem is insolvable because you have to be in the customs union."
Interviewer . the British government claimed they've got this sorted out don't they but we don't know what that is.
"Yes but they are still learning how the EU actually works, a year ago key members of the British government didn't know the difference between the single market and the customs union". :shocked
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 10:39:34 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline classycarra

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6677 on: October 22, 2017, 12:25:34 am »
She’s cack handed in the way she puts it across but I don’t think she’s totally off the mark either. The more the EU goes down the integration and federal route, the greater the suppression of the nation state and the further you pull the elastic away from that the more violently it pulls back the other way, if not overshooting where it originally was. Brexit was the first manifestation of this.

Do you mean only, not first?

As for the suggestion that Brexit came because of increased federalism and suppression of a nation state, do you really believe that?

Wouldn't it be weird for the first/only manifestation of your theory to come from the EU nation with probably the least hint of federal future involvement and least suppressed nation state

Offline Sangria

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6678 on: October 22, 2017, 12:35:28 am »
Do you mean only, not first?

As for the suggestion that Brexit came because of increased federalism and suppression of a nation state, do you really believe that?

Wouldn't it be weird for the first/only manifestation of your theory to come from the EU nation with probably the least hint of federal future involvement and least suppressed nation state

WLR was making the case for Brexit prior to the referendum.
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Libertine

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6679 on: October 22, 2017, 09:42:56 am »
Caroline Flint continues her reinvention as one of Labour's biggest Eurosceptics.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/868856/European-Union-countries-France-Brexit-news-Theresa-May-Macron-Merkel-Brussels-UK

Extraordinary. Exactly the kind of thing Frottage has been saying for years.