Topic: Schools

[west_london_red]

We still have a couple of years before we need to do something but I have just become aware how shit the local secondary schools are. One friend managed to get his daughter transferred to a school outside of the local authority it was that bad (always taught by substitute teachers, no homework ever set) another friend has put their house on the market after their daughter ended up being given a place there for this September and that made me think I should look into the secondary schools myself. While the OFSTEAD ratings are all currently good, they are all a few years old and the exam results look absolutely awful, the one nearest us (the one my friends daughter went to and other was due to start) is the nearest one to our house which is particularly worrying. The two decent schools in the area are Christian schools but we’re not Christians.

Any ideas? The area we live in is nothing special but we have a nice house and is perfect for our needs, has loads of space both in terms of inside the house and garden and is not too bad in terms of commute, distance from my in laws, brother, grandparents etc. Also my mum lives with us and we are absolutely loathed to move but I can’t think of any other alternatives right now.

[TepidT2O]

I  genuinely wouldn’t worry about a Christian  school for your kid if they’re not Christian. They will be very very relaxed about it.

Which schools are they?

[west_london_red]

I  genuinely wouldn’t worry about a Christian  school for your kid if they’re not Christian. They will be very very relaxed about it.

Which schools are they?

So Spelthorne is our local authority, so the good Church’s Schools are St Paul's Catholic College and The Bishop Wand Church of England School, other good one is Thamesmead School but that’s far and were probably out of the catchment.

The bad ones are Sunbury Manor (the ones my friends kids got which is really bad), Thomas Knyvett College (a black kid got recently stabbed by a gang of white kids while the teachers did nothing) and The Matthew Arnold School.

[LuverlyRita]

The two decent schools in the area are Christian schools but we’re not Christians.

That is one of the reasons why religious schools should be banned. Schools should be left to educate children about the various religions. If parents want their kids to be indoctrinated, it should be done outside of the school day.

[TepidT2O]

So Spelthorne is our local authority, so the good Church’s Schools are St Paul's Catholic College and The Bishop Wand Church of England School, other good one is Thamesmead School but that’s far and were probably out of the catchment.

The bad ones are Sunbury Manor (the ones my friends kids got which is really bad), Thomas Knyvett College (a black kid got recently stabbed by a gang of white kids while the teachers did nothing) and The Matthew Arnold School.

Hmm I don’t know the better ones.

But Sunbury manor isn’t great and the head at Thomas Knyvett quit after the incident and their OFSTED didn’t go well.


I’m sort of against religious schooling in principle, but in practice they end up being really good at teaching ethics and things like that. Which I think is really important in a school.

If your kid is bright you could try for the selective schools just outside your area I guess

[west_london_red]

The faith schools are both near Sunbury Manor, and while I’m not particularly supportive of religious schools needs must so I think we might have to put them as our first choices and see what happens. If we don’t get them, then maybe we have to consider moving.

Slightly amusingly there is a really good Sikh school in Hounslow but we’re possibly not Sikh enough for that!

There’s no selective schools near by and I’m not sure either my daughter is bright enough for that, she’s doing ok at school but isn’t exceptional either.

[west_london_red]

That is one of the reasons why religious schools should be banned. Schools should be left to educate children about the various religions. If parents want their kids to be indoctrinated, it should be done outside of the school day.

I’m not for them, but their academic records speak for themselves in the local area, maybe it because they attract all the good kids and the state comp ends up with the rest or maybe the moral/ethical part of the education at a religious school means the kids behave better, I don’t know but it’s a shitty decision to have to make as to where to send the kids with this additional element to consider.

[MrGrumpy]

West London Red

If as your name suggests you live on London, you should be aware that there is a surplus of school places in London these days.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/school-places-londons-challenge-could-soon-be-everyones/

We got our daughter in to her first choice primary school without issues, friends of ours got their daughters in to the previously impossible to get in to Henrietta  Barnett secondary school.

Either way, good luck.

[Wabaloolah]

The faith schools are both near Sunbury Manor, and while I’m not particularly supportive of religious schools needs must so I think we might have to put them as our first choices and see what happens. If we don’t get them, then maybe we have to consider moving.

Slightly amusingly there is a really good Sikh school in Hounslow but we’re possibly not Sikh enough for that!

There’s no selective schools near by and I’m not sure either my daughter is bright enough for that, she’s doing ok at school but isn’t exceptional either.

it probably depends on their Admissions policy as to whether or not you get accepted and the number of applicants.

I imagine higher priority is given to children who are "of that faith" and most of them have really complex policies, I suspect you will come under 'Distance' which will be the last criteria on the policy so will likely depend on the number of applicants. It will likely be easier for a second child to get in if your first one does, providing they are still at the school when the next child starts.

Faith schools are usually responsible for ranking their own places based on the Criteria in their policy document.

I think you come under Surrey County Council so will have to use the Online Admissions Form on their website

[west_london_red]

Yeah, I didn’t realise that the rule that says 50% of kids at a faith school have to be selected not based on their faith only applies to new faith academy schools opened since 2010 and that those faith schools open before 2010 of which 99.9% will be Christian are allowed to be much more restrictive in allowing in children not from the schools faith. So for me that means my kids have a very slim chance to getting into the Church schools as they don’t fall under the 50% rule.

I think we will wait and see for now as my oldest is only 7 so she has a few years to go, otherwise we are either ‘moving’ to my mums old house (which she rents out and lives with me) and apply to school I went to which is still highly rated or we move somewhere else.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Yeah, I didn’t realise that the rule that says 50% of kids at a faith school have to be selected not based on their faith only applies to new faith academy schools opened since 2010 and that those faith schools open before 2010 of which 99.9% will be Christian are allowed to be much more restrictive in allowing in children not from the schools faith. So for me that means my kids have a very slim chance to getting into the Church schools as they don’t fall under the 50% rule.

I think we will wait and see for now as my oldest is only 7 so she has a few years to go, otherwise we are either ‘moving’ to my mums old house (which she rents out and lives with me) and apply to school I went to which is still highly rated or we move somewhere else.

Am I correct that you are atheist?

Would you not 'convert' for the sake of their education.

Im an atheist and converted to Islam to get what I wanted, is that an option ?

[west_london_red]

Am I correct that you are atheist?

Would you not 'convert' for the sake of their education.

Im an atheist and converted to Islam to get what I wanted, is that an option ?

No, I’m Sikh (more of a believer than a practitioner though).

I’m not in favour of religious schools but if it a choice between that and an absolutely awful school, I’m taking the faith school.

For a school application you need proof that you follow the religion actively eg a relevant priest has to attest to your attending weekly services, present proof that your were baptised etc.

As I said before there is a very good Sikh school in the adjoining borough, we could try that. The school is run by the Sikh temple that I attend (I lived on the same road as the temple for 35 of my 42 years) the people who run the temple know my family etc so I could probably get an endorsement from them, but they do have criteria as to how religious you are where we might be able to pull it off, Sikhs are supposed to wear turbans and not cut their hair and I actually haven’t allowed anyone to cut my daughters hair despite my wife wanting it cut (as a compromise it’s my job to wash and brush it) I have absolutely put my foot down on that matter (it comes down to her calves when it’s open) and it might just save our skin when it comes to school choices.

[Kenny's Jacket]

No, I’m Sikh (more of a believer than a practitioner though).

I’m not in favour of religious schools but if it a choice between that and an absolutely awful school, I’m taking the faith school.

For a school application you need proof that you follow the religion actively eg a relevant priest has to attest to your attending weekly services, present proof that your were baptised etc.

As I said before there is a very good Sikh school in the adjoining borough, we could try that. The school is run by the Sikh temple that I attend (I lived on the same road as the temple for 35 of my 42 years) the people who run the temple know my family etc so I could probably get an endorsement from them, but they do have criteria as to how religious you are where we might be able to pull it off, Sikhs are supposed to wear turbans and not cut their hair and I actually haven’t allowed anyone to cut my daughters hair despite my wife wanting it cut (as a compromise it’s my job to wash and brush it) I have absolutely put my foot down on that matter (it comes down to her calves when it’s open) and it might just save our skin when it comes to school choices.

Im not a fan of faith schools either but if its a means to an end then you gotta do what you gotta do.

Good luck, hope they get in the best place

[redbyrdz]

No, I’m Sikh (more of a believer than a practitioner though).

I’m not in favour of religious schools but if it a choice between that and an absolutely awful school, I’m taking the faith school.

For a school application you need proof that you follow the religion actively eg a relevant priest has to attest to your attending weekly services, present proof that your were baptised etc.

As I said before there is a very good Sikh school in the adjoining borough, we could try that. The school is run by the Sikh temple that I attend (I lived on the same road as the temple for 35 of my 42 years) the people who run the temple know my family etc so I could probably get an endorsement from them, but they do have criteria as to how religious you are where we might be able to pull it off, Sikhs are supposed to wear turbans and not cut their hair and I actually haven’t allowed anyone to cut my daughters hair despite my wife wanting it cut (as a compromise it’s my job to wash and brush it) I have absolutely put my foot down on that matter (it comes down to her calves when it’s open) and it might just save our skin when it comes to school choices.

If you still have a couple of years, there might be time to improve your (and her) involvement in the Sikh community, which would maybe help getting endorsement for the school application? Also maybe chat with a couple of parents of kids at that school, and get a feeling for what they want to see to feel a kid will fit in. I know it's a Sikh requirement, but I find it hard to believe your daughter's secondary school admission would depend on her haircut from birth!

[west_london_red]

If you still have a couple of years, there might be time to improve your (and her) involvement in the Sikh community, which would maybe help getting endorsement for the school application? Also maybe chat with a couple of parents of kids at that school, and get a feeling for what they want to see to feel a kid will fit in. I know it's a Sikh requirement, but I find it hard to believe your daughter's secondary school admission would depend on her haircut from birth!

I don’t think the endorsement from the Sikh temple is too much of an issue, like I said they know my family, my step-grandmother goes to temple everyday and is well in with the relevant people.

I know it sounds crazy to someone who isn’t Sikh, but hair really is a big deal in our culture, it’s why I haven’t let hers be cut, my grandmother would be spinning in her grave (if she wasn’t cremated), it’s actually a question they ask on the school admissions form:

Yes / No I confirm that the child named above is Keshadhari (has uncut hair).

But in all honesty even if she did get in, it’s not an ideal situation at all, it will take at least an hour for her to get there.

Seriously, how have the local council let things get this shit that people have to contemplate things like this? Fucking Tories 

[redbyrdz]

Agree. I find the whole school rankings etc so wrong, surely it should just be so that every school provides good education for all local children. I can see that there might be kids with special educational needs, or with exceptional interests in eg music or robotics or whatever, and some schools might want to specialise on providing that, but you shouldn't need to worry whether or not your child will get a good education based on the school they go to.

[TepidT2O]

Had a bit of a dig about…

Yeah Sunbury Manor and The Matthew Arnold aren’t great. Thomas Knyvett as I have said has some big issues.

Of the faith schools, the catholic one is a no brained if you can get into to it.  Really good reputation and excellent results, the CofE one still pretty good but not at the same level.

I’m guessing your nearest Sikh school is Guru Nanak? Has an excellent reputation from what I’ve heard.  Shame the Sikh school in slough isn’t as good!

[west_london_red]

Thanks for that Tepid, you’ve pretty much confirmed what I though about the three non-Church schools, they are all shit and out of the question (unless something drastic happens in the next 3 years), the Church ones will be tough but all we can do is apply and see what happens, if we don’t get them then it looks like we’ll have to look at more extreme measures.

I know about Guru Nanak Sikh College in Southall/Hayes area but that’s too far, I’m thinking about Nishkam School in Hounslow/Osterley which is still a mission to get to but rated Outstanding and exam wise looks excellent, it’s up there with the very best.

[Johnny Foreigner]

No, I’m Sikh (more of a believer than a practitioner though).

I’m not in favour of religious schools but if it a choice between that and an absolutely awful school, I’m taking the faith school.

For a school application you need proof that you follow the religion actively eg a relevant priest has to attest to your attending weekly services, present proof that your were baptised etc.

As I said before there is a very good Sikh school in the adjoining borough, we could try that. The school is run by the Sikh temple that I attend (I lived on the same road as the temple for 35 of my 42 years) the people who run the temple know my family etc so I could probably get an endorsement from them, but they do have criteria as to how religious you are where we might be able to pull it off, Sikhs are supposed to wear turbans and not cut their hair and I actually haven’t allowed anyone to cut my daughters hair despite my wife wanting it cut (as a compromise it’s my job to wash and brush it) I have absolutely put my foot down on that matter (it comes down to her calves when it’s open) and it might just save our skin when it comes to school choices.

Good luck buddy with whatever you end up with. Tough one with deciding for the kids.. Had to drag mine through a pretty few tough years until it eased up. On a side note - RAWK never stops to amaze me. Thanks for sharing the above - I had absolutely no idea and pretty cool to pick up some new info

[kesey]

That is one of the reasons why religious schools should be banned. Schools should be left to educate children about the various religions. If parents want their kids to be indoctrinated, it should be done outside of the school day.

Nothing wrong with schools that are ' religious ' . I was born into a Catholic family and went to a Church of England school. It served me well as I could count me rosary beads and bang the drum at the same time.

[west_london_red]

Nothing wrong with schools that are ' religious ' . I was born into a Catholic family and went to a Church of England school. It served me well as I could count me rosary beads and bang the drum at the same time.

Most church schools still give preference to Christians of other denominations over non-Christians. If you and I lived equidistant from your school, it would accept you over me on no basis other than our religions. How is that anything other than discrimination? We don’t have hospitals of religious denominations or any other public service, not sure why schools are treated differently.

[TepidT2O]

Most church schools still give preference to Christians of other denominations over non-Christians. If you and I lived equidistant from your school, it would accept you over me on no basis other than our religions. How is that anything other than discrimination? We don’t have hospitals of religious denominations or any other public service, not sure why schools are treated differently.

Agree.

Mind you, you are welcome to attend the church every couple of weeks. Absolutely nothing they can do then..! 

[west_london_red]

Agree.

Mind you, you are welcome to attend the church every couple of weeks. Absolutely nothing they can do then..! 

Absolutely, I’m sure Church attendance of 10-11 year olds miraculously increases each and every year.

Although from what I have seen they also expect to see evidence of baptism or christening, I used to work with a girl who went to Gummley Catholic school (which is very highly rated) and she had to get an endorsement from her cousin in Malta who was a nun to get it in along with the letter from a priest saying she regularly attended Mass etc

[kesey]

Most church schools still give preference to Christians of other denominations over non-Christians. If you and I lived equidistant from your school, it would accept you over me on no basis other than our religions. How is that anything other than discrimination? We don’t have hospitals of religious denominations or any other public service, not sure why schools are treated differently.

I agree with you mate. My comment was tongue in cheek. Another thing  ' religious ' schools are doing is conditioning children and dividing them through religion..

[FlashingBlade]

The most important thing a child can experience from school life is happiness and friendship. Education matters obv..but at the end of the day unless you go to Eton it won't matter much in adult life where you went.

[west_london_red]

The most important thing a child can experience from school life is happiness and friendship. Education matters obv..but at the end of the day unless you go to Eton it won't matter much in adult life where you went.

It’s not about where they went in terms of reputation, but grades do matter and going to a shit school doesn’t help

[Terry de Niro]

I attended 3 schools in my life.
Two Roman Catholic schools (one a staunch non-stop brainwashing outfit run mostly by nuns) and a C of E school which I went to for 3 years because there were no available Catholic schools at that time.
Even though it was C of E, there was hardly a mention of religion, and I can honestly say that they were by far the happiest times of my school life.