Topic: Virgil Van Dijk (Cpt)

[Crosby Nick]

Would we not consider one of Konate or Gomez for the United game?

Instead of Virgil? Do we need to?

[killer-heels]

Instead of Virgil? Do we need to?

Just a way of freshening things up, bringing rested players in.

[duvva 💅]

Would we not consider one of Konate or Gomez for the United game?

Instead of Virgil? Do we need to?

I wouldn’t be adverse to seeing Joe in alongside Matip, not sure it’s a game I’d want to see Konate start, don’t think he’s quite at the same level as the other three just yet (he will be just needs time). That’s also what Virgil needs, time and patience. Was a horrible injury and I might have said it before but I don’t think he’ll be back at his absolute best until the end of this season

[wemmick]

The Griezmann goal was more to do with poor awareness and positioning than any physical deficit - he has no idea where the attacker is and so Griezmann is able to go past with ease as by the time he sees him, Griezmann is already coming onto the ball. It’s reactive and not proactive, which is unusual for VVD.

Also for Griezmann’s 1v1 chance in the first half, he’s caught too far forward and is actually in the Atletico half which means Griezmann has the whole of Madrid to run into.

Agreed, mate. I'm not even referring to the goals. Just VVD's play in general this season. He is not consistently imposing himself physically (strength, acceleration, and vertical leap) the way he did pre-injury. I think that's mostly down to not trusting hs right knee yet. I have no doubt he can do it again, and he has shown flashes of it, but I think he is very much playing within himself right now. Totally understandable. Just surmising that the top sides might bring back that strong instinct for powerful movements unconstrained by his mind. I went through something similar with a fully ruptured achilles in college athletics. I can only imagine what the mental strain must be at the very top of professional athletics against the very best. The body is fit but the mind isn't. 

[Peabee]

He still looks like he is crocked with that ACL.

Ok. 

[bornandbRED]

Agreed, mate. I'm not even referring to the goals. Just VVD's play in general this season. He is not consistently imposing himself physically (strength, acceleration, and vertical leap) the way he did pre-injury. I think that's mostly down to not trusting hs right knee yet. I have no doubt he can do it again, and he has shown flashes of it, but I think he is very much playing within himself right now. Totally understandable. Just surmising that the top sides might bring back that strong instinct for powerful movements unconstrained by his mind. I went through something similar with a fully ruptured achilles in college athletics. I can only imagine what the mental strain must be at the very top of professional athletics against the very best. The body is fit but the mind isn't.

It’s hard to judge really. I agree he was generally quite passive against Brentford, but then he goes and crunches Toney with a brilliant recovery tackle one on one.

He hasn’t had too many of those 1v1 situations, which is where I think we can properly assess where his sharpness is. Right now, I feel like any deficits are coming about because of positioning and concentration. He’s switched off a few times. Maybe the injury has something to do with that too, or maybe it’s just brought on by being out of the game for a year.

[Eeyore]

The Griezmann goal was more to do with poor awareness and positioning than any physical deficit - he has no idea where the attacker is and so Griezmann is able to go past with ease as by the time he sees him, Griezmann is already coming onto the ball. It’s reactive and not proactive, which is unusual for VVD.

Also for Griezmann’s 1v1 chance in the first half, he’s caught too far forward and is actually in the Atletico half which means Griezmann has the whole of Madrid to run into.

In the build up it is Robbo who is picking up Griezeman with Virgil coming over to cover the space Matip has left when he is forced to come out and challenge Felix. That goal is down to Naby he simply can't get beaten that easily and has to take one for the team.

For the Griezeman chance the issue is that both Milly and Keita are in their box ahead of the ball when Mane loses possession. For me it was a foul on Mane but the issue is not Virgil's position but our two 8's being caught ahead of the ball.

Klopp summed it up when he said Atletico were prepared to leave Griezeman and Felix up the pitch, so we were basically left with two options either we drop off leave a huge gap between the defence and midfield or push up and try and counter press.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

This thread

[mallin9]

Amongst all the other great performances it’s good to see the rust gone and him back, what a footballer. So great for the massive talent of Konate to have this guy leading the whole way. Imperious, wonderful footballer

[Its not bloody Diego]

Bruno () pushing Virgil is one of the funniest things I've seen since Costa had a crack at Hendo 

[Wild Romany Boy]

Bruno () pushing Virgil is one of the funniest things I've seen since Costa had a crack at Hendo 

Costa must have liked his chances, Bruno wouldn't even dream

[Kopenhagen]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/2eLa68B06vw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/2eLa68B06vw</a>

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Not bad from mini Ibou :p

[slaphead]

Loved it yesterday when Ronaldo had his little tantrum kicking out out at Jones, big man just went over and bounced the prick with his chest. He has brought so many incredible things to our team with his football, and you don't try to intimidate our players when he's out there.   

[Caligula?]

The rust isn't gone and he isn't back better than ever. Not even close.

[Geppvindh's]

He just seems too passive.

[CalgarianRed]

Poor game from him.Hopefully he recovers his form as the season goes on as we are struggling defensively.

[thejbs]

The thread title is starting to read like sarcasm now.

[tubby]

Looks so casual since he's returned, and not an imperious can do whatever he wants kind of way.  And I wonder if it's rubbing off on the whole backline because we were all over the place, the defensive line was zigzags every time they came forward.

[Morgana]

Virgil has always looked "a bit casual". It's part of his charm. Our problems are in midfield. They have to retain the ball better and help protect the goalie. Bobby is knackered because he's doing half the midfield's job for them.

[Yorkykopite]

Virgil has always looked "a bit casual". It's part of his charm.

It is. We love it. But I wonder if he sometimes finds the game too easy. I think back to the Watford defeat just before Covid struck. Virg was playing "calm as you like" in that match and Watford cooked up a storm. Two of Virgil's greatest assets are strength and pace and he uses them sparingly, to deal with situations which look like getting seriously out of control. I'd like to see him using them more proactively. Their first goal saw a very casual press by Virgil when he sauntered out instead of matching the pace of the forwards who'd followed the ball back to the Brighton back line. From being compact we were suddenly wide open and it took one clever pass from Brighton to put us in peril. If Virg had used his pace that pass would never have been tried. If it had been he'd have gobbled it up.

He might do well to take a leaf out of Joel Matip's book. There's a centre back who plays far more aggressively and, I think, with a bit more success.

[Morgana]

It is. We love it. But I wonder if he sometimes finds the game too easy. I think back to the Watford defeat just before Covid struck. Virg was playing "calm as you like" in that match and Watford cooked up a storm. Two of Virgil's greatest assets are strength and pace and he uses them sparingly, to deal with situations which look like getting seriously out of control. I'd like to see him using them more proactively. Their first goal saw a very casual press by Virgil when he sauntered out instead of matching the pace of the forwards who'd followed the ball back to the Brighton back line. From being compact we were suddenly wide open and it took one clever pass from Brighton to put us in peril. If Virg had used his pace that pass would never have been tried. If it had been he'd have gobbled it up.

He might do well to take a leaf out of Joel Matip's book. There's a centre back who plays far more aggressively and, I think, with a bit more success.

I agree with everything you say here, Yorky.

[Kashinoda]

It is. We love it. But I wonder if he sometimes finds the game too easy. I think back to the Watford defeat just before Covid struck. Virg was playing "calm as you like" in that match and Watford cooked up a storm. Two of Virgil's greatest assets are strength and pace and he uses them sparingly, to deal with situations which look like getting seriously out of control. I'd like to see him using them more proactively. Their first goal saw a very casual press by Virgil when he sauntered out instead of matching the pace of the forwards who'd followed the ball back to the Brighton back line. From being compact we were suddenly wide open and it took one clever pass from Brighton to put us in peril. If Virg had used his pace that pass would never have been tried. If it had been he'd have gobbled it up.

He might do well to take a leaf out of Joel Matip's book. There's a centre back who plays far more aggressively and, I think, with a bit more success.

I remember that game, people were making the shout that Lovren was causing instability at the back - the reality was Virg was half asleep, he was criminal for their second where he couldn't be arsed to block it.

I love him but he's not above criticism.

[KevLFC]

There was one moment 2nd half, ok the Brighton player was offside but he wasn't by much but oddly decided not to come across to stop the shot it didn't half worry me though. Didn't seem to gel with Konate either

[Morgana]

There was one moment 2nd half, ok the Brighton player was offside but he wasn't by much but oddly decided not to come across to stop the shot it didn't half worry me though. Didn't seem to gel with Konate either

I was worried about that when Konate got  his first start, that Virgil didn't seem to like him as much as he does Joe or Joel, or he might feel upstaged or something. But they did really well in the few games I've seen them play together, and at the end of the day Virgil has to be an adult about it all. I think today they were both under more pressure because of our frailties in midfield, and Bobby was worn out from doing everybody's running at Old Trafford.

[Eeyore]

I was worried about that when Konate got  his first start, that Virgil didn't seem to like him as much as he does Joe or Joel, or he might feel upstaged or something. But they did really well in the few games I've seen them play together, and at the end of the day Virgil has to be an adult about it all. I think today they were both under more pressure because of our frailties in midfield, and Bobby was worn out from doing everybody's running at Old Trafford.

That is next-level body language reading there. I have got some molehills on my lawn any chance you could come around and turn them in to mountains please ?

[Funky_Gibbons]

That is next-level body language reading there. I have got some molehills on my lawn any chance you could come around and turn them in to mountains please ?

Yeah almost as bad as claiming some of our players don't pass to certain team-mates because they don't trust them....

[Samie]

I was worried about that when Konate got  his first start, that Virgil didn't seem to like him as much as he does Joe or Joel, or he might feel upstaged or something. But they did really well in the few games I've seen them play together, and at the end of the day Virgil has to be an adult about it all. I think today they were both under more pressure because of our frailties in midfield, and Bobby was worn out from doing everybody's running at Old Trafford.

When people are agreeing with Al you know you've fucked up. Retract this bullshit comment.

[Morgana]

That is next-level body language reading there. I have got some molehills on my lawn any chance you could come around and turn them in to mountains please ?

I never said my worries had anything to do with body language or me "reading" anything from Virgil (other than saying he often comes across as "casual"). Generally I'm cynical about human nature and the battle for dominance in all social situations.  But I never said I was right either. I think you read way too much into what I said.

Yeah almost as bad as claiming some of our players don't pass to certain team-mates because they don't trust them....

Nothing close to what I said or meant.

When people are agreeing with Al you know you've fucked up. Retract this bullshit comment.

It was a nothing comment with no ill intention behind it, so as far as I am concerned I've got nothing to retract.

[bornandbRED]

One point he got absolutely skinned in the box by Solly March, but it was ruled for offside. Those tight spots and twists/turns are where the ACL is impacting the most, it seems. Same happened when Griezmann cooked him.

I don’t think he’s ever going to get back to his pre-injury level.

[So… Howard Philips]

One point he got absolutely skinned in the box by Solly March, but it was ruled for offside. Those tight spots and twists/turns are where the ACL is impacting the most, it seems. Same happened when Griezmann cooked him.

I don’t think he’s ever going to get back to his pre-injury level.

Just wonder if the absence of Fabinho allows players to more easily attempt the twists/turns though?

[newterp]

One point he got absolutely skinned in the box by Solly March, but it was ruled for offside. Those tight spots and twists/turns are where the ACL is impacting the most, it seems. Same happened when Griezmann cooked him.

I don’t think he’s ever going to get back to his pre-injury level.

Very fact based comment here.   

I think he’s going to get back to his pre-injury levels.

[bornandbRED]

Just wonder if the absence of Fabinho allows players to more easily attempt the twists/turns though?

I completely disagree. Have to say I’m quite surprised by some of the comments I’m seeing about his performances, I think he’s been largely very good up to now this season, certainly a lot better than I was expecting him to be. Hasn’t played anywhere near as bad as he did in his last full match before he got the injury.

I think credit to him for coming back from an injury like that and then playing basically every game. Takes some doing. Going to be really hard for that same sharpness to return in a 30 year old though. Feels like he will have to adjust his game.

[rushyman]

I dread to think why this thread is being dragged to the top

Let me guess

He’s shit now ?

[MNAA]

One point he got absolutely skinned in the box by Solly March, but it was ruled for offside. Those tight spots and twists/turns are where the ACL is impacting the most, it seems. Same happened when Griezmann cooked him.

I don’t think he’s ever going to get back to his pre-injury level.

Nonsense

[kesey]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/2eLa68B06vw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/2eLa68B06vw</a>

That t shirt he's wearing after 32 seconds reminds me of the 35 Summers Shankly one. 

[A-Bomb]

I was worried about that when Konate got  his first start, that Virgil didn't seem to like him as much as he does Joe or Joel, or he might feel upstaged or something . But they did really well in the few games I've seen them play together, and at the end of the day Virgil has to be an adult about it all. I think today they were both under more pressure because of our frailties in midfield, and Bobby was worn out from doing everybody's running at Old Trafford.

I disagree, I think particularly the bolded bit is a load of nonsense.

Watching the game today I think there's a far easier exanation for some of the defensive errors. Communication.

VVD didn't do very much talking all throughout the game to either Konate, Henderson or the fullbacks.

Which resulted in one incident where VVD and Hendo almost tried to tackle each other.

When you have a young lad like Konate starting, it's important VVD leads that back line by communicating with everybody around him. He didnt do that today.

[AndyMuller]

I’d start Matip ahead of him at the minute next to Gomez/Konate as Virgil is struggling a bit at the minute (it is aloud to be said as he is not above criticism).

[Red-Soldier]

Not surprisingly, he's still rusty.  I expect to see big improvements in his form, come the New Year.

He's coming back from a huge injury.

[Nick110581]

Not surprisingly, he's still rusty.  I expect to see big improvements in his form, come the New Year.

He's coming back from a huge injury.

He’s still clearly great.

Maybe we are overplaying him but he’s so important to us