Author Topic: Arsenal  (Read 5718683 times)

Offline Xxavi

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #200 on: September 29, 2008, 06:42:08 am »
As for Arsenal of 5-6 years ago, I really think Premier League was much, MUCH poorer back then than it is now.
I would go on to argue that, the "invincible Arsenal" would have been beaten many times these days and would struggle to get into top 3 in England.
I base this because English teams were not top teams in Europe. Now, finalists of Champions League are from England, Chelsea and ManU. Besides, there is Liverpool.

IMO, Henry benefited from crap teams in Premier League back then. He was and is a good player, but man... right now he is so poor.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 06:52:22 am by Xxavi »

Offline MagicHat

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #201 on: September 29, 2008, 06:50:55 am »
Right now, he has a horrible injury that will greatly limit him, he is past his peak and that is why we sold him.

Offline matchyg

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #202 on: September 29, 2008, 08:02:52 am »
I think Arsenal have a really good chance to win this year. I fancy their chances. They have a brilliant front line the twin terrors, tricky and pacey playmakers on the flanks. Classy team and Manager.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 09:03:02 am by matchyg »
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Offline Throxenby

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #203 on: September 29, 2008, 09:02:32 am »
I think Arsenal have a good chance to win this year. They have a brilliant front line the twin terrors, tricky and pacey playmakers on the flanks.  :wave
its the central spine thats the problem. the partners for their top spine are crap. plus the route of their spine is crap.
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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #204 on: September 29, 2008, 09:04:48 am »
As for Arsenal of 5-6 years ago, I really think Premier League was much, MUCH poorer back then than it is now.
I would go on to argue that, the "invincible Arsenal" would have been beaten many times these days and would struggle to get into top 3 in England.
I base this because English teams were not top teams in Europe. Now, finalists of Champions League are from England, Chelsea and ManU. Besides, there is Liverpool.

IMO, Henry benefited from crap teams in Premier League back then. He was and is a good player, but man... right now he is so poor.
Stop with this ridiculous revisionism.

That is a weak theory which cannot be proved.  Whatever he is like today, Henry is one of the outstanding players of his generation.

Offline Yiannis

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #205 on: September 29, 2008, 10:46:28 am »
I think Arsenal have a really good chance to win this year. I fancy their chances. They have a brilliant front line the twin terrors, tricky and pacey playmakers on the flanks. Classy team and Manager.

Besides,they have the most inspirational captain ever...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eyPVjuQeJE
Messi in fact doesn't have a recognizable trait.

Offline MagicHat

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #206 on: September 29, 2008, 11:05:53 am »
Arsene has just slammed his players in public. Is the sky falling?

Offline StuH

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #207 on: September 29, 2008, 11:16:38 am »
Arsene has just slammed his players in public. Is the sky falling?

Tell me its not true!!

Maureen will be saying he is just an 'average one' next.
He's a manipulative bastard. Another deliberate attempt to put pressure on people in the game, which he thinks he'll get away with because of his "standing" in the game and his fucking knighthood.

Offline Spanish Fan

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #208 on: September 29, 2008, 11:24:52 am »
As for Arsenal of 5-6 years ago, I really think Premier League was much, MUCH poorer back then than it is now.
I would go on to argue that, the "invincible Arsenal" would have been beaten many times these days and would struggle to get into top 3 in England.
I base this because English teams were not top teams in Europe. Now, finalists of Champions League are from England, Chelsea and ManU. Besides, there is Liverpool.

IMO, Henry benefited from crap teams in Premier League back then. He was and is a good player, but man... right now he is so poor.

A few things:

He has lost pace, one of his biggest assets.
That run cutting inside with the bended shot to the far post is much better defended by la liga defenders. In England defenders were scared of his pace and gave him far too much space. Spanish defenders are probably slower, but much better at nicking the ball from attackers or closing them down in groups.
The game played in England with its two way traffic and lots of counter attacks helped his style.
Barcelona were in a mess last year and that affects any player, especially newcomers.
He may have not adapted well to his new surroundings. His marriage has broken up recently.
Still carrying fitness problems from his time at Arsenal?

Lets see how this season pans out for him.



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Offline Hank Scorpio

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #209 on: September 29, 2008, 12:49:23 pm »
its the central spine thats the problem. the partners for their top spine are crap. plus the route of their spine is crap.
I think they have been let down by some of their senior players over the last season and a bit.

The likes of Gallas have made uncharacteristics errors and have gone MIA when needed.

Offline Mimi

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #210 on: September 29, 2008, 03:59:39 pm »
I think Arsenal have a really good chance to win this year. I fancy their chances. They have a brilliant front line the twin terrors, tricky and pacey playmakers on the flanks. Classy team and Manager.

No defensive backbone = no title nor CL
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Offline Euphoric Mess

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #211 on: September 29, 2008, 04:14:54 pm »
Think their midfield is not strong enough

have not replaced Flamini and it will cost them

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #212 on: September 29, 2008, 04:28:01 pm »
If I was Wenger I would be tempted to play Gallas as a defensive midfielder and Djourou next to Toure at centre half.

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #213 on: September 29, 2008, 04:50:37 pm »
Ahh.. it was only 3 years ago that Gallas had a strong case for being the best defender in the league. Part of a water-tight Chelsea defence, and he constantly pocketed Thierry Henry when they went up against each other.

Yet another career Wenger has ruined.
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Offline bigbear

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #214 on: September 29, 2008, 10:36:53 pm »
Think their midfield is not strong enough

have not replaced Flamini and it will cost them
Flamini did a lot of work for the rest of them and Hleb was a huge player last year for them.

Arsenal will not come in the top 3.

Offline Mad Men

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #215 on: September 30, 2008, 04:30:01 am »
Under-estimated? When have liverpool fan's ever under-estimated Arsenal?

Silly author.

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Offline Mad Men

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #216 on: September 30, 2008, 04:31:35 am »
If you had bothered to spend some money and get a quality center half AND a world class center midfielder, you would have a quality, experinced midfield. Why didn't you go for Villa? 30 million quid? You would have made your money back on him in NO TIME...

You need a 30 goal a season striker..if you want any hope of winning the league or a cup.

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Offline Xxavi

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #217 on: September 30, 2008, 04:59:05 am »
A few things:

He has lost pace, one of his biggest assets.
That run cutting inside with the bended shot to the far post is much better defended by la liga defenders. In England defenders were scared of his pace and gave him far too much space. Spanish defenders are probably slower, but much better at nicking the ball from attackers or closing them down in groups.
The game played in England with its two way traffic and lots of counter attacks helped his style.
Barcelona were in a mess last year and that affects any player, especially newcomers.
He may have not adapted well to his new surroundings. His marriage has broken up recently.
Still carrying fitness problems from his time at Arsenal?

Lets see how this season pans out for him.




All is good, but hey, how much does he earn?
Besides, if he has so many problems, he should be on bench until he solves them. Bojan should be ahead of him in pecking order.
Against Espanyol, he and Gudjohnsen were worst IMO. Lucky goal aside, he was fecking useless as a team player. Lost ball countless times, did not pass to EtoO on time or at all. Fecking flop.

Offline MagicHat

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #218 on: September 30, 2008, 07:19:12 am »
If you had bothered to spend some money and get a quality center half AND a world class center midfielder, you would have a quality, experinced midfield. Why didn't you go for Villa? 30 million quid? You would have made your money back on him in NO TIME...

You need a 30 goal a season striker..if you want any hope of winning the league or a cup.

Using up our budget on one striker would have fixed these problems how? Your right in the area's we needed to get, pity our first two picks rejected us


Offline Mad Men

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #219 on: September 30, 2008, 07:41:10 am »
Using up our budget on one striker would have fixed these problems how? Your right in the area's we needed to get, pity our first two picks rejected us

Budget? WHAT BUDGET? YOU NEVER SPEND ANYTHING..and then wonder WHY you're manager can't win anything!
You have 60 million quid sitting in your overdraft account not being used..

Imagine if you had a player along the lines of Villa up front.....

I bet you wouldn't be complaining about his transfer fee if he was banging em in and you were on top of the league at this stage of the season
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Offline MagicHat

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #220 on: September 30, 2008, 08:15:13 am »
Your aware most of our profit is being held back as a guarantee to the banks? We have 25-30 millions to spend and Arsene did try to spend it on 4 midfielders that we know of, I doubt Yay Toure was 5 pence and a pickle jar.

Would I complain if we spent all our money on Villa? Yes. We are not doing too badly for strikers, Dudu got 15 last season, Van Persie gets goals when fit normally and Ade is a very good player when motivated. Our problems lie in central midfield and cb. What good exactly does Villa do if he has no supply from an overun midfield and if we are conceding the same amount of goals as last season? Scoring was not a problem last season, our failure to keep clean sheets cost us.

If we signed Villa, at best we use up all our transfer budget on a marquee addition to a strong point in the team. At worst, we also take away part of the guarantee during a world wide recession when the banks are a little edgy. If our board did that, I would want their resignation immediately 
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 11:15:41 am by MagicHat »

Offline Benitez

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #221 on: September 30, 2008, 08:25:40 am »
Budget? WHAT BUDGET? YOU NEVER SPEND ANYTHING..and then wonder WHY you're manager can't win anything!


why do people CONTINUE to trot out this rubbish?

Fair play to Wanger - the most amazing thing he's done is brainwash people to believing this crap!

He spends millions and millions on youngsters who may or may not make it. Never mind the huge wage bill there.

And players like Nasri, Walcott, Rosicky, Sagna, Eduardo, Ramsey have cost him a fair amount just the last couple years as well. And we all know he's spent PLENTY in the past to gain the success he did early on.

Big season for Arsenal, cos I wonder how long their fans will put up with not winning anything again.
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Offline Hank Scorpio

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #222 on: September 30, 2008, 11:12:08 am »
Would I complain if we spent all our money on Villa? Yes. We are not doing too badly for strikers, Dudu got 15 last season, Van Persie gets goals when fit normally and Ade is a very good player when motivated. Our problems lie in central midfield and cb. What good exactly does Villa do if he has no supply from an overun midfield and if we are conceding the same amount of goals as last season? Scoring was not a problem last season, our failure to keep clean sheets cost us.
Completely agree that Arsenal's problems, when they arise, lie in the defence and centre of midfield.

The likes of Gallas and Toure have far too many lapses in concentration.  They make too many errors for top class centre halves.  The two have had a piss poor 12 months or so.  Clichy is also prone to the odd lapse in concentration.  Almunia?  Not a top class goalkeeper.  Decent enough, but probably won't win you enough points during the season.

Oh, and you have never replaced Patrick Vieira.  Probably, both in the dressing room and on the pitch.

Offline woof

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #223 on: September 30, 2008, 12:15:27 pm »
I don't think anyone will underestimate Arsenal, for 3rd or 4th spot at least. Still not champion material and the lack of transfer funds is very telling. It's a fact that Wenger's got the best record for spotting young talents and nurturing them to be superstars but one can't be doing that all the time. You need a balance between young upstarts and old heads who have the experience

Offline Endoe

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #224 on: September 30, 2008, 03:05:44 pm »
Stop with this ridiculous revisionism.

That is a weak theory which cannot be proved.  Whatever he is like today, Henry is one of the outstanding players of his generation.

Offline deepdish

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #225 on: September 30, 2008, 09:39:14 pm »
I'm just sick of the Arsenal young player wank fest the media is having when they win a couple of cup matches. Yesterday their reserves, who fielded 9 of the players that won against (Sheffield) United, were crushed 4-1 against an Aston Villa side who had the following line up:

Parish; Lichaj, Herd, S Simmonds, Clark; Stieber, Albrighton, G Gardner, Bannan; Weimann, Delfouneso

The Arsenal kids started some disgraceful kickings on the Villa players in injury time (one direct red card that could have broken Weimanns foot), just showed their lack of carachter.

The media are always praising the young arsenal reserve team, but hey, look at the reserve winners last year, the excellent young Liverpool team won the final in an impressing way. And the Arsenal U18s was never close to the FA Youth Cup final.

Overrated.

Offline Fernando09

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #226 on: September 30, 2008, 09:59:19 pm »
I'm just sick of the Arsenal young player wank fest the media is having when they win a couple of cup matches. Yesterday their reserves, who fielded 9 of the players that won against (Sheffield) United, were crushed 4-1 against an Aston Villa side who had the following line up:

Parish; Lichaj, Herd, S Simmonds, Clark; Stieber, Albrighton, G Gardner, Bannan; Weimann, Delfouneso

The Arsenal kids started some disgraceful kickings on the Villa players in injury time (one direct red card that could have broken Weimanns foot), just showed their lack of carachter.

The media are always praising the young arsenal reserve team, but hey, look at the reserve winners last year, the excellent young Liverpool team won the final in an impressing way. And the Arsenal U18s was never close to the FA Youth Cup final.

Overrated.

cool it mate it's bad for your health!

if you can't change it then sadly you'll have to accept it or at least get used to it... :(
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Offline MagicHat

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #227 on: September 30, 2008, 10:17:00 pm »
That may have been an attitude problem rather then an ability one, Banfield  was absolutely furious with some arrogant attitudes on display. As for the 9, only three started against the Blades, of two others involved in the squad against the Blades, they were out of position against Villa.

Is the press overboard? Yes. However the press, and the academy system, is only ever going to be judged on what it produces. You have Plessis coming in certainly but till you have 1 or 2 more, then have one in the first team, your system isn't going to get hyped by the press.

Offline Degs

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #228 on: September 30, 2008, 11:33:29 pm »
That may have been an attitude problem rather then an ability one, Banfield  was absolutely furious with some arrogant attitudes on display. As for the 9, only three started against the Blades, of two others involved in the squad against the Blades, they were out of position against Villa.

Is the press overboard? Yes. However the press, and the academy system, is only ever going to be judged on what it produces. You have Plessis coming in certainly but till you have 1 or 2 more, then have one in the first team, your system isn't going to get hyped by the press.

I think it shows the different attitudes of the managers.

If Plessis was at Arsenal he would have been in the side from the end of last season.
He isn't ready for the premier league but there are hopes that he could come good.
Wenger is willing to risk playing inexperienced players in the hope that they'll make the step up.
Rafa won't put them in until he knows they are better than anything he can bring in with the means he has.

This hasn't yielded any results because:
1. Rafa's seeds that he laid when he first come are only now starting to flourish (they've gone from 2 youth cups, then the reserves, and are still there) it will hopefully be next season when we have young players who are good enough to at least feature on the bench (Nemeth, Insua, Derby).

2. Nobody has cut the mustard yet. The likes of Guthrie has not shown any reason as to why he should have been kept on by us.

I wouldn't condemn our youth setup on the amount of players that have been integrated into the first team because it's at the managers discretion.
Obviously Rafa reckons you won't win anything with a gang of kids in your side and Wenger reckons that you can but it will take time.

It goes beyond the simple realm of "well none of your kids have got into your team" and is more to do with the philosophy of the managers.

I still think Rafa sill gets his ideas about youth development from his time at:

1986-1989 Real Madrid Castilla Youth B (Madrid "B" team in lower division)
1989-1991 Real Madrid Youth B
1991-1993 Real Madrid U-19s
1993-1995 Real Madrid B

Where youngsters progress through the different levels of youth setup and then prove themselves in the lower leagues before coming back to Madrid.

At the minute nobody is reaching the standard to displace a first teamer.  And to put them in would only be to do so base don potential.
Rafa doesn't go for that, he takes each game as it comes and if you're good enough you'll get in the side.

The times he has tried the kids he's had his hands burnt (Leto).

But I expect to see more integration next season after this current batch of 2X Cup winners and 1X reserve league winners have had another season under their belt.

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #229 on: October 1, 2008, 12:44:35 am »
Is the press overboard? Yes. However the press, and the academy system, is only ever going to be judged on what it produces. You have Plessis coming in certainly but till you have 1 or 2 more, then have one in the first team, your system isn't going to get hyped by the press.

Fairly sure the lad making the comment was a Villa fan, not a Liverpool fan. Haven't they brought through a few of their own lads to very little credit (although the press has gone overboard on this Aston Ingerlund lark instead).
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Offline Spanish Fan

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #230 on: October 1, 2008, 12:50:47 am »
All is good, but hey, how much does he earn?
Besides, if he has so many problems, he should be on bench until he solves them. Bojan should be ahead of him in pecking order.
Against Espanyol, he and Gudjohnsen were worst IMO. Lucky goal aside, he was fecking useless as a team player. Lost ball countless times, did not pass to EtoO on time or at all. Fecking flop.

You have to ask Laporta, Guardiola or Txiqui to get an answer to those questions. Personally apart from his finishing which is an endemic illness at Barcelona I think he had a good game against Espanyol.
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Offline Mad Men

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #231 on: October 2, 2008, 05:47:36 am »
I watched Arsenal TEAR apart Porto on tuesday night...when I use the word, I use it well. It could have been, SHOULD have been 10-0 to the gunners..they were THAT GOOD..or rather, Porto were that SHITE..

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Offline MagicHat

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #232 on: October 2, 2008, 07:46:23 am »
More once Porto went 1-0 down, they collapsed and the centrebacks were poor. In Portugal, I expect a far tougher game, something similar to the first half hour when they hit the bar and had an effort cleared off the line.

Juan, more seems an obsession with Aston Villa having English players rather then players through the ranks. Off the top of my head, they have produced Barry, Gardner, Osborne, GA at the club with O'Hallan and Delfouneso given squad numbers. Former players, Luke Moore, Jlloyd Samuel, Vassel and Hendrie. It is a success and should be recognised as such rather then just "oh look at all the English". I'm guessing not being a top four and more gradual, less flinging them in to fill gaps in Carling Cup, progression means that the press forget what has been produced.

Degs, I realise Benitez has had to reform the system so I'm not saying instant results must be had. However if Guthire makes it in the Prem, that is a success. Anybody who gets a good career in football from your set up is a success. However the press are not so sighted, they want Carling Cup sides and Cesc's for all so they can write headlines
« Last Edit: October 2, 2008, 07:52:13 am by MagicHat »

Offline redwood32

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #233 on: October 2, 2008, 07:50:03 am »
Don't understand what the fuss is yet. Arsenal have played no real competition in the league, and have already lost two games. That's half the games they lost all of last year in the league. They've played 2 newly promoted teams, and 3 relegation dwellers. Plus a crumbling Blackburn who have looked a shell of themselves lately.

Arsenal 1-0 WBA H
Arsenal 0-1 Fulham A
Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle H
Arsenal 4-0 Blackburn A
Arsenal 3-1 Bolton A
Arsenal 1-2 Hull H

Hardly impressive. I'll wait till they play someone of class, but so far us underestimating their chances seems warranted.

Offline Chivasino

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #234 on: October 2, 2008, 11:28:23 am »
Don't understand what the fuss is yet. Arsenal have played no real competition in the league, and have already lost two games. That's half the games they lost all of last year in the league. They've played 2 newly promoted teams, and 3 relegation dwellers. Plus a crumbling Blackburn who have looked a shell of themselves lately.

Arsenal 1-0 WBA H
Arsenal 0-1 Fulham A
Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle H
Arsenal 4-0 Blackburn A
Arsenal 3-1 Bolton A
Arsenal 1-2 Hull H

Hardly impressive. I'll wait till they play someone of class, but so far us underestimating their chances seems warranted.

But they taught the world how to play the game, and that’s all that matters!

Offline Sinos

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #235 on: October 4, 2008, 07:07:11 pm »
I'll bump this again
My ass cheeks clapped together louder than an excited Latino man with maracas... I had just laid the mightiest fudge dragon ever known to mankind in its very own water bath.

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/tybuq/did_you_ever_think_you_were_going_to_die_from_a/

Offline Mackinaw Peach

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #236 on: October 4, 2008, 07:16:25 pm »
If they keep this up, we'll regain our rep as the most knowledgeable fans in the country.  :D

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #237 on: October 4, 2008, 07:25:34 pm »
If only Liverpool were as good as Arsenal!
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline rushyman

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #238 on: October 4, 2008, 07:27:44 pm »
Wish we were playing at the emirates tomorrow
If you don't limit yourself with bad thoughts, you can fly

Jurgen Klopp

Offline Hazell

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #239 on: October 5, 2008, 07:43:55 am »
I like the fact that Wenger is back to complaining about the opposition playing defensively and being organised against Arsenal.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.